Well, I did not know about this too. Where is this
pub located? I think it is an ideal place to
host the party.

Now, let us talk about scheduling it!

We need to follow some rituals on how to conduct the
party. The BST has some interesting rituals on the
drinks chosen and how they are taken.

I invite the other Bangaloreans in this list to
come forward and join this discussion.

-Anand
--- sherlockholmessocietyofindia@... wrote:
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: Digest Number 134
>            From: Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji@...>
>       2. Re: Digest Number 134
>            From: Srifx
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2003 21:45:50 -0800 (PST)
>    From: Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 134
>
> Bangalore has a Sherlock Holmes Pub. Maybe, Bangalorean
> Holmesians can meet there!
>
> =====
> Balaji Narasimhan
> Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
> http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
> =====
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2003 18:13:50 -0000
>    From: Srifx
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 134
>
> I'm from Bangalore but halfway round the world now. Where is that
> pub? Would love to see the decor?  You guys have a good time and
> remember me when you toast the Master.
>
> SriFX
>
> --- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., Balaji
> Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji@y...> wrote:
> > Bangalore has a Sherlock Holmes Pub. Maybe, Bangalorean
> > Holmesians can meet there!
> >
> > =====
> > Balaji Narasimhan
> > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
> > http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
> > =====


__________________________________
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> I'm from Bangalore but halfway round the world now. Where is
> that pub?

It's supposed to be near Cox Town. Very close to the residence
of a non-Sherlockian friend of mine!



=====
Balaji Narasimhan
Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
=====

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I'm from Bangalore but halfway round the world now. Where is that
pub? Would love to see the decor?  You guys have a good time and
remember me when you toast the Master.

SriFX

--- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., Balaji
Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji@y...> wrote:
> Bangalore has a Sherlock Holmes Pub. Maybe, Bangalorean
> Holmesians can meet there!
>
> =====
> Balaji Narasimhan
> Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
> http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
> =====
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

Bangalore has a Sherlock Holmes Pub. Maybe, Bangalorean
Holmesians can meet there!

=====
Balaji Narasimhan
Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
=====

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Yes. I am... I have been in Bangalore for the last 4 years
and I like the city. We can organize a get-together somewhere.
I stay in J.P Nagar.

Ideas invited. I dont have any right now.

If any bangalorean want to give me a ring on this my cell number
is 98452 85853.

rgds

-Anand
--- sherlockholmessocietyofindia@... wrote:
>    Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2003 21:55:29 -0800 (PST)
>    From: Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 132
>
> > Bangalore has the maximum members ,the members belonging
> > to the place may explore the possiblity in a serious
> > manner.
>
> Cool! Calling all BLR members--are you game?
>
>


__________________________________
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Dear Sherlockian Friends,
We had celebrated His (SH's) birthday when I used to stay in Patna. Now, Since I
have moved to Noida ,near Delhi(since October 2003)  its difficult to do the
same there.Though I am trying getting hold of few like minded people to startup
a similar society in Noida. I am visiting my parents in Patna on vacation but
shall be back to Noida on 4th January, 2003.
-Regards
Mihir Lochan Saran

Present Address: (Office)
Technical Support Executive
DELL TECH PROCESS
EXL Service.com(India) Ltd.
A-48,Sector -58
Noida -201301

Address of the Residence:
E-247,Sector 22
Noida -201 301
Cellphone:9818632063
E-mail id.mihirlochan@...


Permanent (Patna) Address:
Pustak Bhandar Publishing House
Govind Mitra Road
Patna - 800 004 (Bihar)
INDIA
Phones :.
+91-612-2301 341 (Off.)
+91-612-2301 338 (Res.)
E-mail id.<pbphpatna@...>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Friends,

Wishing everybody a wonderful New Year.

Anand, welcome back. I thought you were immersed in the bliss of
engagement and therefore too distracted for Holmesian discussion ;)

SriFX

--- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., Anand
Balachandran Pillai <anandpillai6@y...> wrote:
> I dont know if this mail is going to bounce, but
> here goes anyway.
>
> First of all wishing a very happy new year to all members
> of the society, the one and only official sherlockian fanclub
> in India.
>
> Sumal, the reason I am not active now a days in the society
> is simple. I used to have internet connection in my previous
> house. Now I moved to a different locality, where I have not
> yet taken broadband internet not do I have a telephone line to
> dial up. Unfortunately, all yahoo groups are blocked by my
> company firewall, so I cannot post from there also. And I
> dont visit cybercafes now a days. Now you get an idea of the
> reason why I am absent so much these days!
>
> I will come back with a bang once I acquire Sify broadband at
> my new house. Give me some time...
>
> Nothing else I can think of adding right now...
>
> Once again I wish you all Happy Holidays.
>
> Cheers
>
> -Anand
>
>
> --- sherlockholmessocietyofindia@... wrote:
> > There are 2 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> >       1. Re: Digest Number 131
> >            From: Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji@y...>
> >       2. hello
> >            From: sumalsn
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> > Message: 1
> >    Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:00:23 -0800 (PST)
> >    From: Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji@y...>
> > Subject: Re: Digest Number 131
> >
> > > I am looking for a paperback copy of  a well known Sherlock
> > > Holmes Pastiche " Seven-per-cent-solution" written by Nicholas
> > > Meyer .
> >
> > Getting Sherlockian books in India is always tough. I suggest
> > the following:
> >
> > * A lot of secondhand bookstores contain real gems. You could
> > try one of them.
> >
> > * You could try asking some good bookseller to order it for you.
> > Most of them have good contacts in the US and other countries,
> > and if you know the bookseller real well, he might get you the
> > book for a decent price.
> >
> > * Finally, the Web! Try ordering it from Amazon.com!
> >
> >
> > =====
> > Balaji Narasimhan
> > Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
> > http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
> > =====
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> > http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> > Message: 2
> >    Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:01:28 -0000
> >    From: sumalsn
> > Subject: hello
> >
> > Dear Holmesians,
> > I agree tha we should have something to celebrate the Master's
> > birthday in a big way.I think most of our members have mooted the
> > idea.Bangalore has the maximum members ,the members belonging to
the
> > place may explore the possiblity in a serious manner.Mihir had
> > celebrated Sir Conan Doyle's b'day sometime back,we can seek
guidance
> >
> > from him as to how to go about it
> >  Anand, the site is missing you badly.Your dynamism has propelled
his
> >
> > site to what it is now.Come back .
> > Mihir ,I think the net is the best way to go about .There is a
book
> > shop in B'LORE in the infantry road which specialises in rare
> > books.Balaji would be able to help you more
> >  Srifx,that was impressive.Are you aware thet Conan Doyle was a
keen
> > cricketer too and had a formed a cricket club too which hd
members
> > like JM Barrie who created the character Peter Pan?I am sure you
will
> >
> > come out with more on the subject
> > Mark ,we are eager to see more of you on the site
> > sumal
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > sherlockholmessocietyofindia-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://in.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
> http://photos.yahoo.com/

I dont know if this mail is going to bounce, but
here goes anyway.

First of all wishing a very happy new year to all members
of the society, the one and only official sherlockian fanclub
in India.

Sumal, the reason I am not active now a days in the society
is simple. I used to have internet connection in my previous
house. Now I moved to a different locality, where I have not
yet taken broadband internet not do I have a telephone line to
dial up. Unfortunately, all yahoo groups are blocked by my
company firewall, so I cannot post from there also. And I
dont visit cybercafes now a days. Now you get an idea of the
reason why I am absent so much these days!

I will come back with a bang once I acquire Sify broadband at
my new house. Give me some time...

Nothing else I can think of adding right now...

Once again I wish you all Happy Holidays.

Cheers

-Anand


--- sherlockholmessocietyofindia@... wrote:
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Re: Digest Number 131
>            From: Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji@...>
>       2. hello
>            From: sumalsn
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2003 22:00:23 -0800 (PST)
>    From: Balaji Narasimhan <sherlockbalaji@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 131
>
> > I am looking for a paperback copy of  a well known Sherlock
> > Holmes Pastiche " Seven-per-cent-solution" written by Nicholas
> > Meyer .
>
> Getting Sherlockian books in India is always tough. I suggest
> the following:
>
> * A lot of secondhand bookstores contain real gems. You could
> try one of them.
>
> * You could try asking some good bookseller to order it for you.
> Most of them have good contacts in the US and other countries,
> and if you know the bookseller real well, he might get you the
> book for a decent price.
>
> * Finally, the Web! Try ordering it from Amazon.com!
>
>
> =====
> Balaji Narasimhan
> Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
> http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
> =====
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2003 11:01:28 -0000
>    From: sumalsn
> Subject: hello
>
> Dear Holmesians,
> I agree tha we should have something to celebrate the Master's
> birthday in a big way.I think most of our members have mooted the
> idea.Bangalore has the maximum members ,the members belonging to the
> place may explore the possiblity in a serious manner.Mihir had
> celebrated Sir Conan Doyle's b'day sometime back,we can seek guidance
>
> from him as to how to go about it
>  Anand, the site is missing you badly.Your dynamism has propelled his
>
> site to what it is now.Come back .
> Mihir ,I think the net is the best way to go about .There is a book
> shop in B'LORE in the infantry road which specialises in rare
> books.Balaji would be able to help you more
>  Srifx,that was impressive.Are you aware thet Conan Doyle was a keen
> cricketer too and had a formed a cricket club too which hd members
> like JM Barrie who created the character Peter Pan?I am sure you will
>
> come out with more on the subject
> Mark ,we are eager to see more of you on the site
> sumal
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> sherlockholmessocietyofindia-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://in.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>


__________________________________
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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
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> Bangalore has the maximum members ,the members belonging
> to the place may explore the possiblity in a serious
> manner.

Cool! Calling all BLR members--are you game?




=====
Balaji Narasimhan
Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
=====

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
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Dear Holmesians,
I agree tha we should have something to celebrate the Master's
birthday in a big way.I think most of our members have mooted the
idea.Bangalore has the maximum members ,the members belonging to the
place may explore the possiblity in a serious manner.Mihir had
celebrated Sir Conan Doyle's b'day sometime back,we can seek guidance
from him as to how to go about it
  Anand, the site is missing you badly.Your dynamism has propelled his
site to what it is now.Come back .
Mihir ,I think the net is the best way to go about .There is a book
shop in B'LORE in the infantry road which specialises in rare
books.Balaji would be able to help you more
  Srifx,that was impressive.Are you aware thet Conan Doyle was a keen
cricketer too and had a formed a cricket club too which hd members
like JM Barrie who created the character Peter Pan?I am sure you will
come out with more on the subject
Mark ,we are eager to see more of you on the site
sumal

> I am looking for a paperback copy of  a well known Sherlock
> Holmes Pastiche " Seven-per-cent-solution" written by Nicholas
> Meyer .

Getting Sherlockian books in India is always tough. I suggest
the following:

* A lot of secondhand bookstores contain real gems. You could
try one of them.

* You could try asking some good bookseller to order it for you.
Most of them have good contacts in the US and other countries,
and if you know the bookseller real well, he might get you the
book for a decent price.

* Finally, the Web! Try ordering it from Amazon.com!


=====
Balaji Narasimhan
Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
=====

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

Dear Friends,
I am looking for a paperback copy of  a well known Sherlock Holmes Pastiche "
Seven-per-cent-solution" written by Nicholas Meyer . In this novel Sherlock
Holmes and Dr. Watson meet Sigmund Freud. A new depiction of " Final Problem"
which is very different from the FINAL PROBLEM of the MEMOIRS OF S.H. is given
by the author in this book.
Can anyone of you tell me where can I get this book from in India?
I have checked in almost all the shops in Delhi,Calcutta, Lucknow,Mumbai ,
Kathmandu , Ranchi and Patna  but failed in getting a copy of it.
Regards,
Mihir Lochan Saran
Pustak Bhandar Publishing House
Govind Mitra Road
Patna - 800 004 (Bihar)
INDIA
Phones :.
+91-612-2301 341 (Off.)
+91-612-2301 338 (Res.)
E-mail id.<pbphpatna@...>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think that Jan 6th, 1854 is the most widely adopted one. Let's
follow that! Any ideas what we can do?

Maybe, we Holmesians can meet face to face, based on city. I'm
from Bangalore. Any other members in Bangalore?


=====
Balaji Narasimhan
Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
=====

__________________________________
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It seems that they just celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Piltdown fraud in
18th Nov 2003. These are a links to the photographs of Piltdown village and the
pit where the fossils were found:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2003/1118piltdown.asp
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown/pfolks.gif
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown/pskull.gif
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown/piltmap2.gif
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown/rutot.gif
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown/bones_2.gif
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown/bones_1.gif
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown/skull_2.gif



The discovery included:
2 human skulls
a canine tooth
a tool carved from an elephant tusk
fossil teeth from a number of prehistoric animals

In 1949 the Piltdown fossils were dated. This established them to be fairly
modern although in some quarters they were still accepted as genuine. Not until
1953 at an international congress of paleontologists did the idea of fraud came
about. Through examination of the fossils revealed that what Dawson found was:
2 human skulls dated as medieval, 620 years old
1 orangutan jawbone, around 500 years old, probably from Sarawak
elephant molar, genuine fossil, probably from Tunisia
hippopotamus tooth, genuine fossil, probably from Malta or Sicily
canine tooth
Pleistocene chimpanzee fossil
The arguments against Doyle for being invoved in this case are quite convincing.

The Jawbone: Doyle's neighbor Cecil Wray was a fellow of the Royal
Anthropological Society and his brother was head of the Malay museum and
specialized in excavating caves. One of his museums had recently purchased a
large collection of animal specimens from Borneo. Orangutans live only in Borneo
and Sumatra.
The Skulls: Doyle had made the acquaintance of the leading phrenologist in
London, the American Jessie Fowler, who had an immense number of skulls in her
collection. Like Doyle, Fowler was in the practice of selling her skulls.
Elephant Tooth: several fossil mammal remains have been identified as coming
from the Mediterranean. The likely sites include Malta and a fossil in the
Ichkeul of Tunisia. Whoever was the hoaxer had to have access to such exotic
materials. In 1907, Doyle visited archeologist Joseph Whitaker, one of the few
scientists who had frequently been to the Ichkeul region. A few months later,
while honeymooning, Doyle spent two months in the eastern Mediterranean. In all
probability they went ashore at Malta, a British port, in late November or early
December on their return voyage. Coincidentally, the Daily Malta Chronicle
announced on November 16th the discovery of the fossilized remains of a
hippopotamus by a workmen excavating a limestone fissure on the island. One of
the planted items at Piltdown was a hippo tooth whose form and chemical content
indicate it came from a limestone chamber in one of the Mediterranean islands,
Malta being regarded at the most likely.
Elephant Teeth: Two years later, Doyle and his wife cruised the western
Mediterranean. They visited Cartrhage, not far from Ichkeul where several of the
fossil elephant teeth are known to have come from.



Try this link for mre info: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/piltdown.html



"I would have followed you, my Brother, my Captain, my King!!"
  -----Boromir (FotR)

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains,
however improbable, must be the truth"
  -----Sherlock Holmes (BLAN)











Yahoo! India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and more.Download
now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Piltman Fraud! Good discussion point, Sumal.

Though my opinion was not solicited, I'm going to hog this issue with
my thoughts and excerpts from articles I came across.

For those uninitaited;
The history of the discovery of the earliest Englishman (as Piltdown
Man was so often called)was based on discovery of bone fragments and
a skull, determined by Sir Arthur Smith Woodward of the British
Museum to be authentic.

Almost forty years later, in 1953, Piltdown Man was exposed as a
forgery, mainly through the work of Dr Kenneth Oakley.  He showed
that the skull was from a modern human and that the jawbone and teeth
were from an orangutan.

The Doyle connection???

Many have noted that  Conan Doyle seems to have been a very honest
man and it would have been completely out of character for him to
have been involved in such a hoax.

I personally think that it would not have been beyond him to be
involved in some way or form. Even if he was not the one to actually
bury the so-called evidence, he may have well been consulted or
offered advise to the persons who actually did it. The excitement
perpetuated is certainly someone can "write Holme about" ;)

Read on....

In an article recently published in "Pacific Discovery", Robert B.
Anderson of the American Museum of Natural History makes a strong
case that Doyle WAS responsible for the hoax and left us numerous
clues in his book, The Lost World, a young person's adventure novel
published in 1912. . Anderson suggests that, because the clues hadn't
been properly deciphered, when Doyle "passed on in 1930, he died
laughing." Some of the circumstantial "evidence" that Winslow cited
included:

Doyle was an alumnus of Stonyhurst College, the same college attended
by Charles Waterton, a notorious natural history faker, and
undoubtedly Doyle was familiar with some of Waterton's creations.

Doyle lived 7 miles away from Barkham Manor where the fossils were
found and he knew both Dawson and Woodward. This afforded Doyle ample
opportunity to plant the fake fossils over a period of years.

Doyle was a doctor and had sufficient knowledge to fake the bones,
and he was well acquainted with people from whom he could have
obtained the orangutan jaw and the cranium.

Doyle had an interest in early man as shown by his adventure
novel, "The Lost World", published in 1912 and an unpublished
manuscript entitled "Human Origins". In "The Lost World" four
explorers make their way through the Amazon jungle to a plateau where
dinosaurs and cave men are still alive. Winslow points out a number
of allusions to the Piltdown crime in this book including a
description of ape-men that are closely allied with orangutans and
with the jaw of Piltdown man. Winslow also found that Doyle mentioned
missing links several times and that the area around the plateau was
similar to the part of Sussex where Piltdown is located.

Winslow speculated that the motive behind the fraud was Doyle's long-
standing animosity towards scientists who attacked spiritualism, a
belief that departed souls could be contacted through mediums such as
seances. During his latter years Doyle spent much time and money
promoting spiritualism and believed that he and his wife had
communicated with the dead.

The reaction to Winslow's accusation of Doyle was generally one of
disbelief. The "evidence" was circumstantial and subject to multiple
interpretations. As Anderson notes: "And even though Winslow's
suggested motive is intriguing, the problem remains: he failed to
find a smoking gun."

In an article, Robert Anderson claims to have found a smoking gun by
solving a puzzle contained in "The Lost World", as well as
deciphering lots of additional items in the story that may relate to
Piltdown man. As related by Anderson, a cryptic drawing in Chapter 15
turns out to be the key to solving the puzzle. In the story, the four
explorers have survived several harrowing encounters with dinosaurs
and primitive men and are trying to escape off the plateau and return
to London. They are handed a drawing that turns out to be a charcoal
map on bark that shows a cave leading off the plateau and back to
London. There are 18 caves on the map with a X at the end of one cave
that is longer and more complex than the others. This caves leads off
the plateau. The story follows the map and the explorers trip through
the cave. Anderson notes that torches used to light the way through
the caves are made from araucaria wood, the Latin name for monkey
puzzle tree. Monkey puzzle trees lined the driveway to Barkham Manor
at the time that the Piltdown fossils were found.

WELL WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK????

  -- SriFX

--- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., sumalsn
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> Thanx,srifx,that was very informative.I would like to add on to
what
> sri has said on this subject.This organization is flourishing in
> India for the past 275 years and they have a site devoted to Indian
> freemasons.the site is www.masonindia.org
> Apart from what sri has said, C Rajaji, fakruddin ali ahmed, swami
> vivekananada, motilal nehru were all famous indian freemasons
>   There has been no postings on the Piltdown man fraud and the
> alleged involvement of Sir Conan doyle.mark ,anand ,bhatiaji we are
> waiting for your views on that
> sumal

Welcome back, balaji.You are one of the most cherished members of
this site being the only patische writer among us.
   The idea is worth exploring.By the way there is this controversy
about his birth date,one is of course jan 6 1854 and the other one is
june 6 1854 which one do we follow? let us have a discussion on
this .The voting has completely stopped it seems.we should bash on
regardless now on the name
sumal

Thanx,srifx,that was very informative.I would like to add on to what
sri has said on this subject.This organization is flourishing in
India for the past 275 years and they have a site devoted to Indian
freemasons.the site is www.masonindia.org
Apart from what sri has said, C Rajaji, fakruddin ali ahmed, swami
vivekananada, motilal nehru were all famous indian freemasons
   There has been no postings on the Piltdown man fraud and the
alleged involvement of Sir Conan doyle.mark ,anand ,bhatiaji we are
waiting for your views on that
sumal

Nice to see that there is some discussion going on!

While the Canon doesn't mention the deerstalker, thanks to the
famous silhouette, it is impossible for us to think of the
Master without the concerned apparel!

BTW, Jan 6, 2004, marks the 150th birthday of Sherlock Holmes.
Any ideas how we can celebrate it?



=====
Balaji Narasimhan
Author, Sherlock Holmes: Solutions from the Sussex Downs
http://www.sherlock-holmes.com/balaji.htm
=====

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It's a recorded fact that Conan Doyle was a freemason. It's strange
the he made Holmes out to loath every kind of society which the
author was a part of too. This opens a whole new can of worms. Was
Holmes an alter-ego to Doyle?

There is also mention that around  October, 1874, Arthur Conan Doyle,
after meeting Will Pinkerton, wrote The Valley of Fear. Will
Pinkerton belonged to an organization called  Molly Maguire. It was a
freemasonry formed by Irish group of rebels known as the Sons of the
Shamrock initiated what later became known as the Molly Maguires. It
is believed that this group had a history of pagan rituals such as
account of an initiation in the "Society of Freemen" described in
such chilling detail by Conan Doyle in Valley of Fear.

Sumal, folks,  below are the references to the Freemanson Society in
the canon.

1-The Adventure of the Norwood Builder (Masonic watch charm).
I assure you that, beyond the obvious facts that you are a bachelor,
a solicitor, a Freemason, and an asthmatic, I know nothing whatever
about you."
Familiar as I was with my friend's methods, it was not difficult for
me to follow his deductions, and to observe the untidiness of attire,
the sheaf of legal papers, the watch-charm, and the breathing which
had prompted them. Our client, however, stared in amazement.

2-The Red-Headed League

Sherlock Holmes's quick eye took in my occupation, and he shook his
head with a smile as he noticed my questioning glances. "Beyond the
obvious facts that he has at some time done manual labour, that he
takes snuff, that he is a Freemason. that he has been in China, and
that he has done a considerable amount of writing lately, I can
deduce nothing else."
Mr. Jabez Wilson started up in his chair, with his forefinger upon
the paper, but his eyes upon my companion.
"How, in the name of good-fortune, did you know all that, Mr.
Holmes?" he asked. "How did you know, for example, that I did manual
labour? It's as true as gospel, for I began as a ship's carpenter."
"Your hands, my dear sir. Your right hand is quite a size larger than
your left. You have worked with it, and the muscles are more
developed."
"Well, the snuff, then, and the Freemasonry?"
"I won't insult your intelligence by telling you how I read that,
especially as, rather against the strict rules of your order, you use
an arc-and-compass breastpin."

3-The Adventure of the Retired Colourman (Masonic tie pin).

BTW a few other famous freemansons which include some litereary
figures are George Washington, Paul Revere, Andrew Jackson, Harry
Truman, Teddy Roosevelt, John Hancock, Roy Acuff, Buzz Aldrin, Gene
Autry, Gen. Omar Bradley, Ty Cobb, Henry Ford, Ben Franklin, Rudyard
Kipling, Charles Lindbergh, Thurgood Marshall, Mozart, Goethe, J.C.
Penny, Roy Rogers, and John Wayne.

SriFX

--- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., sumalsn
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Dear Holmesians,
> To add what mark has already mentioned on the subject, the
> deerstalker hat was popularized by William Gillette who first
> potrayed the Master on screen.I think he was also the first man who
> used the term "elementary ,my dear Watson".any other inputs on the
> hat?
>  Come on guys ,get cracking on the polling.I saw the biography of
> Sherlock Holmes on the History channel one of these days, it was
> fascinating and covered the entire gamut of the master.There was
also
> rare footage of Sir Arthur himself speaking about his beloved
> creation.
> There has been frequent references to the Freemason society in the
> Canon.Do you think that it might be due to the fact that Sir conan
> Doyle was a freemason himself?
> sumal

-
The deerstalker hat was definately popularized by William Gillette on
stage but the use of the term  "elementary ,my dear Watson" became
popularized only after its use in movie version of The Return of
Sherlock Holmes (1929) (the first Holmes film with sound), with Clive
Brook and H. Reeves-Smith.

--SriFX

-- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., sumalsn
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Dear Holmesians,
> To add what mark has already mentioned on the subject, the
> deerstalker hat was popularized by William Gillette who first
> potrayed the Master on screen.I think he was also the first man who
> used the term "elementary ,my dear Watson".any other inputs on the
> hat?
>  Come on guys ,get cracking on the polling.I saw the biography of
> Sherlock Holmes on the History channel one of these days, it was
> fascinating and covered the entire gamut of the master.There was
also
> rare footage of Sir Arthur himself speaking about his beloved
> creation.
> There has been frequent references to the Freemason society in the
> Canon.Do you think that it might be due to the fact that Sir conan
> Doyle was a freemason himself?
> sumal

Dear Holmesians,
To add what mark has already mentioned on the subject, the
deerstalker hat was popularized by William Gillette who first
potrayed the Master on screen.I think he was also the first man who
used the term "elementary ,my dear Watson".any other inputs on the
hat?
  Come on guys ,get cracking on the polling.I saw the biography of
Sherlock Holmes on the History channel one of these days, it was
fascinating and covered the entire gamut of the master.There was also
rare footage of Sir Arthur himself speaking about his beloved
creation.
There has been frequent references to the Freemason society in the
Canon.Do you think that it might be due to the fact that Sir conan
Doyle was a freemason himself?
sumal

Dear Holmesians,
A repoll is on but voting has slackened  a lot except for the old
faithful nothing is happening.Mark, anand, bhatiaji,  what is on ? I
think the cold is slowing us a lot.Remember ,the master lived in
London ,a place much colder than India.come on guys , hard work broke
no bones
sumal

Hello Holmesians,
Apart from the fascinating insight, Mark has so wonderfully shown
about Sir Conan Doyle, I can add on a bit.Sir Arthur was also
involved in identifying the Piltdown man.This Piltdown man was a
skull found by an amateur anthropologist,Mr Charles Dawson who
discovered a skull which was interpreted by experts as being the
missing link which established that man had indeed descended from
ape.However ,it was much later that it was discovered that it was a
fraud perpetuated by the lawyer ,Dawson .In this affair ,conan doyle
had actually identified  the skull as being authentic ,a bad case of
judgement,it seems in the retrospect.Sir arthur was also deeply
interested in seances but that is a different story which can be told
later
sumal

A deerstalker is defined in two ways. Firstly, a man who stalks deer. This is
always a man as women are far too sensible. Secondly, as the hat worn by the man
while he stalks the aforementioned deer.

This hat is usually made of a checked material and is probably most recognisable
as the hat worn by one Sherlock Holmes, although it must be stressed that there
is no evidence to suggest that Holmes himself ever engaged in the stalking of
deer. A further notable feature of this hat are the two pieces of fabric that
can be folded down around the head to keep the ears warm, or make your voice
louder.

The latter of these is one of the less obvious consequences of utilising this
feature of the Deerstalker and is sourced from the same logic as the vocal
volume increase caused by the use of a personal stereo. Another of the less
obvious consequences of the Deerstalker is that, when in the folded-down
position, it makes you look like an utter fool.

This has lead some parties to speculate that the reason the Deerstalker is so
used by deerstalkers is because of the hat's ability to guarentee even the most
glamorous and charismatic, a place in the 100 Most Ridiculed People on the
Planet. And while the deer is giggling uncontrollably at the sight Deerstalker,
the deerstalker is able to blow a hole through it's chest with a gun.

Manraviel




"I would have followed you, my Brother, my Captain, my King!!"
  -----Boromir (FotR)

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains,
however improbable, must be the truth"
  -----Sherlock Holmes (BLAN)











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Another essay by the same writer:


To a large extent all fictional heroes mirror their authors, and Sherlock Holmes
is no exception.  His personality and penchant for astounding revelations were
borrowed from Dr. Bell; his use of disguises, his devotion to the “chase,” and
his experimentation into the science of detection came from Vidocq and his
fictional progeny, Dupin and Lecoq. But Holmes’s righteous desire to uncover the
truth no matter how difficult came from Conan Doyle himself.
Arthur Conan Doyle near the end of his career
(AP/Wide World)
Throughout his life, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle investigated crimes as an amateur
sleuth.  Motivated by a strong sense that justice had not been done by the
authorities, he undertook these investigations with vigor and resolve,
publishing his findings in the hope that the falsely accused would be
vindicated.  One of Conan Doyle’s most well known crusades was the case of
George Edalji, an Anglo-Indian solicitor, who in 1903 was convicted of maiming
livestock in the farm country surrounding the village of Great Wyrley.  Edalji
was serving a seven-year sentence when Conan Doyle took up his cause.

Suspicion fell on Edalji when the local police started to receive disturbing
letters taking credit for the animal mutilations.  In the letters Edalji was
identified as one of the perpetrators: “…It is not true that we always do it
when the moon is young and the one Edalji killed on April 11th was a full moon
night…”

Edalji was investigated and became the prime suspect in July 1903 after the
police received its most alarming letter to date.  For some reason the unknown
writer changed person in this installment from “we” to “they,” but the threat is
clear.  “There will be merry times in Wyrley in November,” the letter states,
“when they start on little girls, for they will do twenty wenches like the
horses before next March.”  Terrified that their daughters would be slaughtered
like the horses and sheep that had already been attacked, the community felt it
had to act, and Edalji became the target of their fears as well as their
long-held prejudices.

Edalji’s father, the Rev.  Shapuji Edalji, who had originally been a Parsee, had
emigrated from Bombay and married an Englishwoman whose uncle, an Anglican
clergyman, arranged for his post in Wyrley.  Many of the locals resented having
a “black” vicar with a white wife and half-caste children.  They felt that true
Englishmen should be spreading religion to the “blacks” of the world, not the
other way around.

George Edalji, the Reverend’s son, was a solicitor with a solid practice in
Birmingham.  His success further rankled the bigoted locals who viewed this
slight, frail man with oddly bulging eyes as physically as well as socially
inferior.  After the eighth incident of animal mutilation, the police went to
the Reverend’s house and searched for evidence of George Edalji’s involvement. 
They found a pair of mud-encrusted boots, a pair of similarly mud-stained
trousers, an old housecoat that appeared to have spots of blood and horse
saliva, a coat and a waistcoat that contained horse hairs that matched the
latest victimized animal, and a set of razors which were “…wet and one had a
dark stain.”

The newspapers of the time dubbed George Edalji the “English Dreyfus” because
like the Jewish French soldier, Edalji was the victim of prejudice and dubious
written evidence.   On first meeting Edalji, Conan Doyle had serious doubts that
he could ever have committed these crimes.  In an analysis worthy of Sherlock
Holmes and Bell, Dr. Conan Doyle could see that the man’s eyesight was severely
impaired.   A specialist confirmed that Edalji had “eight dioptres of myopia”
and no prescription lens could adequately improve his vision.  Upon visiting the
crime scenes, some of which were difficult to enter through bushes and briar
patches, Conan Doyle became convinced that a physically unfit person with
Edalji’s impaired vision could not possibly have negotiated these muddy fields
in the dark.

Piece by piece, Conan Doyle evaluated the evidence that the police had gathered
and discredited their theories.  The mud on Edalji’s boots and trousers was
black while the earth in the field where the last horse was maimed was yellow
clay.  The dark spot on the razor was found to be rust not blood, and the
supposed traces of blood and horse saliva on his clothing were in fact food
stains.  The police surgeon nevertheless maintained that the hairs found on
Edalji’s clothing did come from the eighth maimed horse.

Though Conan Doyle largely discredited the case against Edalji, the police
refused to release him.  It was at this point that Conan Doyle himself then
began to receive threatening letters.  In one of two that he received in May
1907, the writer says,

“…Desperate men have sworn their Bible oath to scoop out your liver and kidneys…
and there are those who say you have not long to live.  I know from a detective
of Scotland Yard that if you write to Gladstone [the Home Secretary] and say you
find Edalji is guilty after all, and you were mistaken and promise to do no more
for him, they will make you a lord next year.  Is it not better to be a lord
than to run the risk of losing kidneys and liver?...”

The police insisted that these threats had come from Edalji himself.  Faced with
such a ridiculous proposition, Conan Doyle had no choice but to do what Sherlock
Holmes would do—find the real villain.

In the course of his investigation, Conan Doyle learned that similar vindictive
anonymous letters had been sent to the police eight years before the ones in
1903.   These letters were written in the same tone and style as the later ones
– as well as the ones Conan Doyle received.  After carefully inspecting all the
letters, he theorized that they were written by two people—one educated, the
other hotheaded and semiliterate.  He also took note of the fact that letters
from both periods contained invective against the headmaster of the Walsall
Grammar School.  Conan Doyle felt that at least one of the culprits had attended
Walsall and that he was away during the lull between 1895 and 1903.

As Conan Doyle wrote of his investigation, “My first step in the enquiry lay at
Walsall.  I must enquire whether there had been at the school, during the early
nineties, any boy who (a) had a particular grudge against the headmaster, (b)
was innately vicious, and (c) subsequently went to sea?  I took this obvious
step.  And I got on the track of my man at once.”

He visited the headmaster at Walsall and asked if there were any former students
who fit these three criteria. The headmaster immediately pinpointed a young man
named Royden Sharp who had been a poor student and a disciplinary problem and
who had set out to sea as an apprentice in 1895.  Conan Doyle delved further
into Sharp’s background and discovered that the young man had apprenticed at a
butcher’s shop immediately after his time at Walsall and that he had worked on
an Irish cattle boat.  As Peter Costello says in his book, The Real World of
Sherlock Holmes,  Royden Sharp “knew how to approach and handle animals: a vital
talent… for a cattle slasher.” Conan Doyle also found a witness who claimed that
Sharp had shown her a large horse-lancet, a blade specially designed for
slaughtering cattle, the same kind of blade that had been used to maim the
eighth horse.

The evidence overwhelmingly pointed to Royden Sharp, but Conan Doyle never
accused him publicly.  Instead, he published papers proving Edalji’s innocence.
But the authorities ignored the findings, staunchly maintaining that Edalji was
the culprit.  Edalji was released from prison after serving three of his seven
years.  Eventually he was allowed to practice law again and lived to 85.   Conan
Doyle was never able to uncover the identity of Sharp’s accomplice in writing
the letters, the “educated one.”  He had considered Sharp’s older brother who
had moved to California, but could not assemble adequate evidence. Later
students of the case presented the possibility that George Edalji’s brother
Horace could have been involved.  That contention was never proven conclusively.
Douglas Wilmer as Holmes (CORBIS)
As Martin Booth points out in his biography of Conan Doyle, The Doctor and the
Detective, the author and his creation shared many of the same characteristics. 
They were both tall and fit, and they both boxed.  They both enjoyed a “good
joke.”  They were both pack rats who kept untidy quarters where documents and
books were piled high.  Each had one brother.  Both Sherlock Holmes and his
creator were agnostics.  But these kinds of similarities are to be expected
between an author and his hero.  In every hero there is always a large part of
the author’s personality.  What’s interesting about Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is
that he modeled himself on the character as much as he modeled the character on
himself, taking up cases and causes as Holmes would.  No doubt, the yearning to
be a person like Sherlock Holmes was always there within him, but it took the
success of his stories to bring it out.



"I would have followed you, my Brother, my Captain, my King!!"
  -----Boromir (FotR)

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains,
however improbable, must be the truth"
  -----Sherlock Holmes (BLAN)











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An interesting essay written by Antony Bruno on the Parisian (and American)
connection of Sherlock Holmes:--


A reporter asked Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in 1894 if he had been influenced by the
work of Edgar Allen Poe.  The creator of Sherlock Holmes replied, “Oh,
immensely!  His detective is the best detective in fiction.”

The reporter asked if that assessment included Sherlock Holmes.

“I make no exception…,” Conan Doyle declared.   “Dupin is unrivalled.”

Chevalier C. Auguste Dupin is the amateur detective who appears in Poe’s stories
“The Murders in the Rue Morgue” (1841), “The Mystery of Marie Roget” (1842), and
“The Purloined Letter” (1844), predating Sherlock Holmes’s debut in A Study in
Scarlet by nearly fifty years.   These tales have rightfully earned Poe the
reputation as the father of the modern mystery.   Other writers, such as
Dickens, wrote about crime and criminal enterprises, but no one before Poe made
the crime and its detection the central plot.  Poe was the first to make the
amateur detective a hero.  (It would be some time until writers dared cast an
actual policeman as a hero given society’s fear and mistrust of the police.) 
He’s also the creator of the “locked-room” puzzle, a plot device in which a
murder is committed in a sealed room, a weapon is nowhere to be found, and there
are no signs of forcible entry or exit.    Although Poe was an American, he
chose to make his hero a Frenchman and set his stories in
  Paris.

Like Holmes, Dupin carries on his investigations with a sidekick who serves as a
stand-in for the reader, giving the detective the opportunity to voice his
brilliant deductions.  But while Sherlock Holmes uses his keen observations to
uncover otherwise hidden truths, Dupin has the ability to replicate the thought
processes of others and in effect, read minds.  Julian Symons in Bloody Murder 
characterizes Dupin as “an emotionless reasoning machine.”  By contrast, Holmes
is hardly emotionless, but he does avoid emotional entanglements and, as many
critics have pointed out, is something of a misanthrope.
Portrait of Edgar Allen Poe
(AP/Wide World)
Interestingly, though Conan Doyle openly acknowledged his debt to Poe, Sherlock
Holmes dismisses the American author’s detective in one story when he tells
Watson:  “No doubt you think that you are complimenting me in comparing me to
Dupin… Now in my opinion, Dupin is a very inferior fellow.  That trick of his of
breaking in on his friend’s thoughts with an apropos remark after a quarter of
an hour’s silence is really very showy and superficial.  He has some analytical
genius, no doubt; but he was by no means such a phenomenon as Poe appeared to
imagine.”

It seems that Conan Doyle wanted to make it clear to his readers that his
creation was only inspired by Dupin, not an Anglicized double.  Like all
authors, Conan Doyle was proud of what he created and wanted his originality
acknowledged.

Holmes is also critical of another popular fictional detective, Emile Gaboriau’s
Inspector Lecoq.  “Lecoq was a miserable bungler…,” Holmes says.  “…he had only
one thing to recommend him and that was his energy.  That book made me
positively ill.  The question was how to identify an unknown prisoner.  I could
have done it in twenty-four hours.  Lecoq took six months or so.”

Perhaps Conan Doyle wasn’t feeling particularly charitable on the day that he
wrote those lines, but in truth Gaboriau is not a storyteller in the same class
as Poe or Conan Doyle.

Gaboriau (1833-1873) was well-versed in the ways of the Sûreté (the French
security police), the local police of Paris, and the courts, and this knowledge
gives his work an air of authenticity.   His police detective Lecoq first
appears as a minor character in Gaboriau’s early stories, probably because he
feared that his readers weren’t ready for a sympathetic policeman.  Lecoq
gradually comes to the fore partnered with an amateur sleuth, then finally takes
center stage by himself in Monsieur Lecoq (1869).

Lecoq is described as “an old offender reconciled with the law,” one who had
been wrongly convicted.   He is more observant than those around him, and like
Holmes, uses these observations for his deductions.  For instance, a hand
impression in the snow reveals traces of a wedding band on the right hand, and
the marks of heavy, dragging footsteps in the snow lead Lecoq to conclude that
the suspect is a middle-aged man.  (Middle age apparently was not as spry in the
19th century as it is today.  Gaboriau himself died at the age of 40.)  Lecoq is
the first fictional detective to make plaster footprint casts and to use a
striking clock as evidence of the time of a crime.  Like Sherlock Holmes, he is
a master of disguise with an amazingly mobile face that he can “mold… according
to his will, as the sculptor molds clay for modeling.”  Julian Symons in Bloody
Murder characterizes Lecoq as “self-seeking and vain, but… also honest.”

This description could also fit the first and perhaps greatest real-life
detective of all time, Eugène François Vidocq (1775-1857).  It is no coincidence
that Lecoq’s name is reminiscent of Vidocq’s.  Gaboriau correctly admired his
real-life model, for Vidocq was indeed larger than life and in many ways a
character of his own creation.
Portrait of Eugene Francois Vidocq (CORBIS)
The son of a baker, Vidocq was imprisoned for forgery as a young man.  He
escaped, and continued to escape each time he was apprehended; earning Vidocq
the reputation as France’s slipperiest prisoner.  No prison could hold him. 
Like Houdini, he could foil the most difficult locks.  Finally, the frustrated
authorities made him an offer.  If he would spy on his fellow prisoners and
report all information he gathered regarding ongoing crimes, his sentence would
be reduced.  Vidocq proved to be so adept, he was eventually offered his freedom
if he continued to spy for the police.

Vidocq firmly believed that it took a criminal to catch one, and he saw many
flaws in Paris police work.  Napoleon was turning Paris into the jewel of Europe
at the time, building monuments and renovating entire neighborhoods.  But what
was the use of turning Paris into a showplace if no one would visit because of
the appalling crime rate?  The emperor ordered his police minister Joseph Fouché
to clean up the crime problem. Fouché allowed Vidocq to assemble a squadron of
former thieves, embezzlers, and street toughs who would use their wiles to
penetrate the underworld to not only solve crimes, but also sometimes prevent
them.  Vidocq’s band of criminals turned officers was named the Sûreté and was
the basis for what would become the modern Sûreté.

The Sûreté was soon the most effective police agency in all of France, perhaps
in all the world.    Before Vidocq individual police precincts were autonomous
agencies; they did not share information or pool resources.  One did not have to
be a dastardly genius to figure out that by moving from precinct to precinct,
one could avoid apprehension. Vidocq changed all that by keeping meticulous
records and making that information available to all precincts.  He also made
strides in footprint, handwriting and document analyses and even suggested
methods for the use of fingerprints.  But first and foremost, Vidocq was a
hands-on investigator who frequently disguised himself to gather intelligence
from  the criminal class.  He maintained two personas for years—an old man and a
street thug.  It was said that Vidocq could alter the perception of his height
by dress and attitude.

Vidocq was also a master at public relations, and some accused him of
instigating crimes so that he could earn high praise for solving them.  Oddly,
for a man whose trade was stealth and disguise, he was something of a social
butterfly. He dined out every night.  Among his close friends were the great
authors Honoré Balzac and Victor Hugo.  Vidocq was said to have been the model
for Balzac’s Inspector Vautrin in Le Père Goriot and the inspiration for both
Jean Valjean and Inspector Javert in Hugo’s Les Misèrables.  Vidocq’s memoirs,
which were most likely ghostwritten, are filled with fabulous tales of all forms
of skullduggery foiled by Vidocq’s brilliant detection and valiant rescues.   In
all probability these tales were highly embellished, and in some cases complete
fiction.  But Vidocq’s Mémoires can hardly detract from his accomplishments and
innovations.

Vidocq clearly was the primary model for Gaboriau’s Lecoq and Poe’s Dupin.  Why
else would Poe have made his detective French?  Most likely Conan Doyle was well
aware of Vidocq’s renown, but whether his inspiration for Holmes came
second-hand from Poe and Gaboriau or directly from Vidocq’s Mémoires as well as
other writings about him, there is no question that Sherlock Holmes’s lineage
stretches back to Vidocq.

The particulars of Sherlock Holmes—his use of deductive reasoning, elaborate
disguises, and scientific analysis to solve crimes—were the trademarks of
Vidocq, but unlike Poe’s Dupin and Gaboriau’s Lecoq, there is nothing
particularly French about Holmes.   Though moody and often mysterious, at the
core Holmes is an Englishman, and for that aspect of his character, Conan Doyle
most definitely had an Anglo-Saxon model.



"I would have followed you, my Brother, my Captain, my King!!"
  -----Boromir (FotR)

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains,
however improbable, must be the truth"
  -----Sherlock Holmes (BLAN)











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now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was out of action from office and everything the last 4 days
due to severe cold & fever. It is much better now.

I agree with Sumal and Sri that the discussion is going on
forever. It should not be allowed to drag on forever and become
a sort of jinxed issue, which will never get resolved. (Do I hear
"Kashmir" ?). So let us pull up our socks and tighten our belts,
take our pens and put on our thinking caps and do whatever to
get the grey cells clicking, in the right way :-)

My first vote was for BST. My second vote is for GAT, i.e
"Guardians of the Agra Treasure". There is an Indian connection
quite evident in the name. Also with due apologies to Sri, it
does not have any negative connotations at all.

I would suggest that some of the most senior members and most
contributing ones along with sherlockians like Balaji go ahead
and christen the new society. If you keep listening to new
members and postpone the decision, it will never be taken, as
the society will be adding new members as long as it is live.
So put your foot down and take the decision.

My vote is for GAT, once again.

regards

-ABP

--- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., Doctor Watson
<watsonjh2002@y...> wrote:
> I also agree that this discussion is stretching on forever. Will
someone get the repoll over with quickly (that is if someone is
taking the responsibility, or else i will see to it). I still stress
that the phrase 'sherlock holmes' or 'baker street' should be
included in the name as it will be recognisable by non homesians
also. I had also suggested a name "The Khidmutgars of Baker Street".
This name had a very strong indian AND canonical reference and also
includes the said phrase. Khidmutgar mean servants.
>
> Manraviel
>
> Srifx <no_reply@...> wrote:
> I agree Sumal, we need to get on with discussing canonial issues.
> However if we seek recognition as a serious Holmesian group then
the
> name ought to spread and be recognizable.
>
> Probably because of my extensive research on the canon-thugee
> connection and the excitement of possible pastiches I'm still
biased
> towards the original name of "The Baker Street Thugees". However if
> this repoll list does not include that name then my second and very
> reluctant choice is "Guardians of the Agra Treasure". The name by
> itself still does not ring any bell with the casual Holmes
literatti.
>
> Again the condition that i am voting for GAG is that TBST is not in
> the repoll list. However if it is in the repoll list then I would
> stick to TBST and NOT consider GAG at all.
>
> SriFX
>
>
> --- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., sumalsn
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > Dear holmesians,
> > We seem to be  stuck up in trifles.We call for a repoll at the
drop
> > of a hat but however fail to speak up when the poll is actually
> on.I
> > propose that we set an ultimatum to all the members to vote for
the
> > name,failing which it will be deemed that they have voted for the
> > name which is actually voted in first.The ultimatum  expires on
Dec
> > 31.Members are not contributing also,what we all should try and
do
> is
> > to contribute at least once a week,even if they have nothing to
> > say.Except for a few , rest of us do not contribute at all.So
that
> is
> > all for now ,I hope to see some kind of a revival of sorts at the
> site
> > sumal
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> sherlockholmessocietyofindia-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> "I would have followed you, my Brother, my Captain, my King!!"
>  -----Boromir (FotR)
>
> "When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever
remains, however improbable, must be the truth"
>  -----Sherlock Holmes (BLAN)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! India Mobile: Ringtones, Wallpapers, Picture Messages and
more.Download now.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I also agree that this discussion is stretching on forever. Will someone get the
repoll over with quickly (that is if someone is taking the responsibility, or
else i will see to it). I still stress that the phrase 'sherlock holmes' or
'baker street' should be included in the name as it will be recognisable by non
homesians also. I had also suggested a name "The Khidmutgars of Baker Street".
This name had a very strong indian AND canonical reference and also includes the
said phrase. Khidmutgar mean servants.

Manraviel

Srifx <no_reply@...> wrote:
I agree Sumal, we need to get on with discussing canonial issues.
However if we seek recognition as a serious Holmesian group then the
name ought to spread and be recognizable.

Probably because of my extensive research on the canon-thugee
connection and the excitement of possible pastiches I'm still biased
towards the original name of "The Baker Street Thugees". However if
this repoll list does not include that name then my second and very
reluctant choice is "Guardians of the Agra Treasure". The name by
itself still does not ring any bell with the casual Holmes literatti.

Again the condition that i am voting for GAG is that TBST is not in
the repoll list. However if it is in the repoll list then I would
stick to TBST and NOT consider GAG at all.

SriFX


--- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., sumalsn
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Dear holmesians,
> We seem to be  stuck up in trifles.We call for a repoll at the drop
> of a hat but however fail to speak up when the poll is actually
on.I
> propose that we set an ultimatum to all the members to vote for the
> name,failing which it will be deemed that they have voted for the
> name which is actually voted in first.The ultimatum  expires on Dec
> 31.Members are not contributing also,what we all should try and do
is
> to contribute at least once a week,even if they have nothing to
> say.Except for a few , rest of us do not contribute at all.So that
is
> all for now ,I hope to see some kind of a revival of sorts at the
site
> sumal


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"I would have followed you, my Brother, my Captain, my King!!"
  -----Boromir (FotR)

"When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains,
however improbable, must be the truth"
  -----Sherlock Holmes (BLAN)











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now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree Sumal, we need to get on with discussing canonial issues.
However if we seek recognition as a serious Holmesian group then the
name ought to spread and be recognizable.

Probably because of my extensive research on the canon-thugee
connection and the excitement of possible pastiches I'm still biased
towards the original name of "The Baker Street Thugees". However if
this repoll list does not include that name then my second and very
reluctant choice is "Guardians of the Agra Treasure". The name by
itself still does not ring any bell with the casual Holmes literatti.

Again the condition that i am voting for GAG is that TBST is not in
the repoll list. However if it is in the repoll list then I would
stick to TBST and NOT consider GAG at all.

SriFX


--- In sherlockholmessocietyofindia@..., sumalsn
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Dear holmesians,
> We seem to be  stuck up in trifles.We call for a repoll at the drop
> of a hat but however fail to speak up when the poll is actually
on.I
> propose that we set an ultimatum to all the members to vote for the
> name,failing which it will be deemed that they have voted for the
> name which is actually voted in first.The ultimatum  expires on Dec
> 31.Members are not contributing also,what we all should try and do
is
> to contribute at least once a week,even if they have nothing to
> say.Except for a few , rest of us do not contribute at all.So that
is
> all for now ,I hope to see some kind of a revival of sorts at the
site
> sumal