Hello Homi

Thanks for the greetings. That is some gift!!

BTW is there a place in Shimla where you can get a round view of Shimla or is it a work of the digital photography. Literally had Shimla at the click of mouse!

Nitin

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Happy New year to all Himachalis........
suku

Happy New Year to All

Wishing you all happy and prosperous Happy New Year


Go to the following link to see 360 degree view of the Shimla City

http://www.homichatterjee.com/resources/pan-1.html

Hope You all will like this new year Gift.

Regards

Keep in touch

Homi Chatterjee

Wishing eveyone a very Happy New Year... Hopefully something to look forward in  2003...

Catch all the cricket action. Download Yahoo! Score tracker

http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=280475

The lack of leadership..... Was it the reason that we lost india to the hordes
of Islam. Or was it the lack of brain and vision in our Rajput kings, who were
not ready to modernise with time was it their pride due to which they refused
learn from the past mistakes.
Why they were not able to catch up with turks in tactical warfare??
Just read to the article...
The Hindu Defeat: Failure of Leadership in Past & Present
http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=280475

It is only the Rajput community, which has to be blamed becuase brahmins tried
their best to produce the kings and kingdoms like of Mauryas.......but the later
fate of Magadh is known to all. "Shoka the Great".......

A nice analysis done by Harsh Verma on Sulekha

Some great news. Its 1246 afternoon and its snowing in Shimla. Snow on 31st is occouring after many many years.

Nitin

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Hey Sarju, the thing about Rajputs would be generalising a lot..  I would say there are regions which fall into conservative and non conservative areas in HP when one talks about intercaste marriages. I can quote from my exp with places around Shimla mostly.. places like Nahan, Solan and places around Shimla have noticed are more liberal. Shimla hills is more conservative.. Places around Kullu falls in between.. Did'nt had any major interaction with people from other districts so won't be able to tell much.

Castesim is practised in HP and in full galore. It has a social approval. One just has to visit a marriage or a traditional puja in rural HP. I have observed the Gurkha laborers are considered on a higher herarchy than the other lower castes..!! Intercaste marriages are happening unless one of the families are not from the supposedly lower caste. I have seen Brahmins marrying a Rajput or a Bania. Marrying into lower caste is still a big no no.

Going against parental approval and marrying intercaste could create problems socially. Ok the couple could have perfect understanding but if the alliance does'nt have family backing the couple may feel a little left out in our social setup. Having a family approval definately helps.

and lastly... boy you sure missed by ignoring Rajput g**** .. :)))

Luck!

Nitin

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H I M A C H A L   P R A D E S H

No ticket for losers: Kidwai Kangra, December 29
Ms Mohsina Kidwai general secretary, All-India Congress Committee
(AICC) and in charge party affairs, Himachal Pradesh, has said the
Dhumal government was diverting attention of the people of the state
from the dismal performance of the government.
HP Congress chief Sukhvinder Singh Sukhoo greets Mrs Mohsina Kidwai
and other leaders at Nadaun bridge on Sunday.
— Photo Chander Shekhar Sharma


Cong rally fails to project unity
Nurpur, December 29
The top leadership of the state Congress which tried to project unity
between the Virbhadra and Stokes factions at a rally at Raja-ka-
Talab, near here, yesterday failed to achieve it as the rally was
marred with slogans raising by supporters of the two camps.

Cong ignored Kangra: Dhumal
Dharamsala, December 29
The Himachal Pradesh Chief Minister Mr Prem Kumar Dhumal has claimed
that 65,000 youths have been provided with jobs since his government
came to power in 1998. He was addressing a gathering at Paragpur
after dedicating 35 KV substation to the people.

Dhumal makes roads under PM's scheme
Shimla, December 29
The road network has seen unprecedented expansion in the state over
the past five years. The government accorded top priority to road
development and launched the Pradhan Mantri Gram Sadak Yojna and
enhanced the outlay under the Rural Infrastructure Development Fund
of NABARD to speed up the construction of roads.




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EARLIER STORIES

  Gujarat poll verdict `won't have bearing on HP'
December 29, 2002
  HVC not to have tie-up with BJP, Cong
December 28, 2002
  Poll under Dhumal's leadership: Shanta
December 27, 2002
  Shanta, Dhumal sink differences
December 26, 2002
  Shanta, Dhumal to campaign jointly
December 25, 2002
  Dhumal: HP will go Gujarat way
December 24, 2002
  BJP's `vishwas yatra' begins
December 23, 2002
  HP Cong leaders submit draft manifesto
December 22, 2002
  Cong high command brings about rapprochement
December 21, 2002
  Shanta not to attend yatra function
December 20, 2002
  BJP, Congress focus on Himachal
December 19, 2002


   5 Chamera union leaders get bail
Chamba, December 29
The leaders of the Chamera Project Workers Union — Mr Sanjay Thakur,
Mr Baboo Ram, Mr Dharminder, Mr Sham Lal and Mr Manoj Kumar — were
released on bail yesterday by the Chief Judicial Magistrate. They had
been held on the charges of forcibly collecting union fees from
workers and staff of Jaiprakash Industries at the 300-MW Chamera
Hydroelectric Project.

Revellers rush to hill resorts
Shimla, December 29
The bleak prospect of a snowfall notwithstanding, winter revellers
from the plains have started converging on various hill resorts of
the state to celebrate the New Year. The sun has been shining
brightly over the past few days and there has been not even a trace
of cloud in the sky.

CM moots forum of Himalayan states
Shimla, December 29
Himachal Chief Minister Prem Kumar Dhumal has mooted the idea of a
common forum of 11 Himalayan states for preparing a joint strategy,
having an effective say in formulation of policies and programmes for
sustainable development of ecologically-rich but fragile Himalayan
region.

Work on Sawara-Kudu project begins today
Shimla, December 29
Work on the 144 MW Sawara-Kudu hydroelectric project at Hatkoti will
commence tomorrow. Mr Narender Bragta, Horticulture Minister, will
perform the "bhumi pujan" ceremony of the project, which is being
executed as a joint venture by the four partner states of the BBMB.

HP's per capita income rises
Hamirpur, December 29
Mr Rajinder Rana, president of the Sarv Kalyankari Sabha and a BJP
leader, said in a statement here today that Himachal now stood at No
8 among all states as far the average per capita income was
concerned.

Mini Sectt wears deserted look
Dharamsala, December 29
Just two days after the shifting of winter capital to Dharamsala, the
Mini Secretariat here, seat of the state government. wore a deserted
look. The Chief Minister is on his tour of Dehra subdivisional and no
minister or senior officer was present in the Secretariat and it was
left to the Private Secretary of the Chief Minister Mr Arun Sharma to
hold the fort.

  Video
  Government's decision to close the oldest Central Press in Shimla
initiates widespread opposition by employees in the city.
(28k, 56k)










----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------

WANT your daughter to be an ideal homemaker and daughter-in-law some day?

Send her to a unique school in Bhopal, Madhya Pradesh, that promises to give
women of marriageable age all the tips they need for a happy wedded life.

The school, Manju Sukhramdas Sanskar Kendra, says it teaches young women the
qualities and responsibilities of an ideal daughter-in-law, how to adjust to a
new household and how to behave with her husband and in-laws.

And all this comes for no charge.

The school, managed by a society called Navyuvak Parishad, claims about 4,500
girls have "passed out" since it opened in 1987. The only teacher is 60-year-old
Aaildas Hemnani, who says 99 per cent of her students are leading a happy
married life.

Popularly known as Bhauji, Hemnani rues that more and more marriages are
breaking these days because of increasing materialism and Western influence.

"I try to inculcate the values of our culture in the girls and keep them away
from the Western culture. Also, I stress on tolerance. I tell the girls that in
case their in-laws are hostile, they should tolerate as much as possible," says
Hemnani.

"But that does not mean that the girl should tolerate harassment. In that case,
she should take every possible step to give a befitting reply to her in-laws."

And Hemnani says the few of her students who did not have happy marriages had
the odds stacked against them.

"The marriages of 1 per cent of the girls who passed out from here failed
because their in-laws did not budge even an inch from their stand."

An officer with the state government's Tribal Welfare Department, Hemnani opted
for early retirement to dedicate her time to what she sees as a social cause.

Asked how this unusual idea struck her, Hemnani told IANS: "Some of my friends
were very impressed with the behaviour of my daughter after her marriage and
advised me to train other girls for their marital life."

Hemnani has also penned a book: "How to become a good son-in-law".

"Whenever a student gets married, I gift the book to her to present it to her
husband on the first day of their marital life," she says.

From 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., Hemnani can be seen sitting in the school in front of a
group of 20-25 young women, sharing tips on how to become a good
daughter-in-law. The classes run for three months.

Says Jaya Thavnani, a post-graduate student: "I joined the school because I will
get married soon and want to get adjusted in the new household very smoothly."

Rashmi Chandwani, another student who joined the school in November, says of
Hemnani: "She teaches us how to control our anger and how to dress after we get
married."

With tips like that, Hemnani's students hope they are dressed for success at
marriage. IANS
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021230/edit.htm#6

Let us try to open a similar school in HP too
suku

Thanks a lot for all the views those were posted on the site
regarding the casteism and races ..... I did go through most of the
links and it did broadened my perspective of Hindutva and casteism
and all ......

I had never thought that one had to be born to be a Hindu .... that
is the reason why they do not resort to conversions .... and it was
so obvious ...... I guess I am a bit slow I guess ... (Thx Rachna)

Nitin and Suku .... thanks for your links .... they were very
interesting readings.

All the readings made me ponder about all the harm that casteism is
doing to the people ..... I guess the most conservative class in
Himachal is probably Rajputs (sorry ..... Rachna) .......I just know
it from some personal experiences of my friends ..... I knew quite a
lot of people in the university who were having an intercaste affair
and their families were dead against the marriage .... and most the
problematic affairs involved a Rajput family

I guess it is all deeply ingrained in the pride ...... even I take
pride in my background of half brahmin and half jat sikh (even though
there is nothing in it to be proud of)  ..... I really feel sort of
sad for all of my friends who were involved with rajputs ....
Personally, I also knew some extremely nice Rajput girls, but I sort
of stayed away from them (Actually they stayed away from me to tell
you the truth ... I tried my best ... ha ha ha ... my parents are too
cool about intercaste marriage .... they just want me to be married
thats all)

Regarding my acquiantaces who are involved in intercaste affairs ...
I really don't know whether they are doing the right thing or not
My question to the hangouters is whether it is the wise thing to stay
away from the intercaste affairs or not .... or is it wise to succumb
to the wishes of your parents who have been pretty helpful to you
throughout the life it is just that they do not want you to be
married to the person from some other caste.... (and they may be
right over here also)

Is it worth to give up the person that you believe to be your true
love for the wishes of the parents

bye for now and have a wonderful time on the New Year's eve
Shimla ROCKS
Peace
Sarju

>> Hey Nitin your topic of aryan invasion is also there..

Suku

My comments about the Dravidian aspect was in general terms. I did not want to get into the academics of this whole issue. All I meant was Hindutva will open a can of worms within the Indian society.

All these theories you have mentioned are truly one sided. I mean they just go to prove ok there was no invasion but there is another school of thought which totally rejects this. The entire dravidian movement in south India for sure!!

I am talkin about the present. The real stark reality where entire mass still upholds the dravidian theory. I do not want to defend either the dravidians or the Aryans (!)

Here is a post from a hardcore Dravidian website. Think.. anyone buying all those arguements down south?

Would like to hear your comments on the issues raised in the post.

Nitin

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Hi
Rajiv Malhotra, president of Infinity Foundation (USA) has written a couple of
articles on Indian culture. are available at www.sulekha.com
Some of his in person conversations are available online at
http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=280095
interesting topics could be
Infinity Foundation
In-depth Indology
Aryan Invasion Theory
Modern Indian Culture
Non-Hindu Expression Towards Hinduism
Western Scholars' Opinions About Hindus
Western Media's Negative Stereotype Of NRIs
Effect of Negative Stereotype On NRIs

He is also delivering a talk in Bangalore on 7th Jan 2003.
If anybody interested can find the details on
http://www.iisc.ernet.in/~prasthu/next_prog.html
""Where is India in the Clash of Civilizations?""
Some introduction  about Rajiv

Mr. Rajiv Malhotra is one of the most successful Indians in USA. After studying
in Delhi's St. Columba's High School and then St. Stephen's College, Rajiv left
to USA in 1971 to study Physics and Computer Science. After studies, he worked
in the Information Technology field in various capacities - Software Developer,
Director of various R & D labs, Strategic Planner, Vice President of Mergers &
Acquisitions, Executive Consultant, and finally as owner/CEO of various small
startups. In 1995, Mr. Malhotra left the for-profit business world and started
The Infinity Foundation.

Mr. Malhotra's own research interests cover a wide range of the humanities and
center around worldviews and civilizations. Mr. Malhotra is the most read
columnist on Sulekha portal (http://www.sulekha.com). His latest column on
Sulekha, "RISA Lila - 1: Wendy's Child Syndrome" has stirred the psyche of
American Academicians who have portrayed Shri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and Swami
Vivekananda in an ugly manner. The other worth reading essay from him is "Axis
of Neocolonialism", also available on Sulekha.

Hey Nitin your topic of aryan invasion is also there..
suku

On that hot summer day, the world was changed from the desert of Pokharan. A few
'underpaid' scientists of third world India, a set of men who could have
commanded 50 times their salaries at Lawrence-Livermore or NASA, adorned a sixth
horseman in atomic armour.
for details go to
http://www.the-week.com/22dec29/events5.htm#2

Narendra Modi, future PM
SWAMINOMICS/SWAMINATHAN S ANKLESARIA AIYAR
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/html/comp/articleshow?artid=31985762

[ SATURDAY, DECEMBER 21, 2002 08:28:04 PM ]

Too many journalists have proved guilty of projecting wishful thinking as
analysis. Despite widespread media criticism, Narendra Modi won a landslide
victory in Gujarat. Many journalists are now trying to explain lamely why they
were wrong, and some hope he will be tamed or diminished in his second term.

I see things differently. I see Narendra Modi as a future Prime Minister of
India, possibly even the next one. The prospect does not fill me with joy, but
analysis is not about joyfulness. Just look around for young politicians who can
move the masses, who can be more than regional leaders and make a national
impact. I see no new faces, in or outside the BJP, to match Modi.Atal Behari
Vajpayee is in poor health, and some believe LK Advani will soon take over from
him, maybe in the next general elections in 2004. But Vajpayee might not step
down. He might outlive Advani: there is little difference in their ages. Nobody
can say who will pass away first.

By contrast, at 52 Narendra Modi is has many decades ahead of him. After his
Gujarat victory he is obviously the star vote-getter of the party, leaving far
behind older aspirants like Murali Manohar Joshi. Bhairon Singh Shekhawat may
have some rival claims, but is an aged gentleman that has been kicked upstairs
already. Besides, Shekhawat constantly needed help from others to form coalition
governments. By contrast Modi won with a crushing two- thirds majority in
Gujarat. You may hate him, but you cannot deny his vote-getting power.

Expect Modi to be a leading campaigner for the BJP in coming elections in
Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh, and expect the BJP to win. Drought and fiscal
bankruptcy caused by the Pay Commission award have made Congress governments in
these two states very vulnerable anyway. Expect this weakness to be exacerbated
by communalism, spearheaded by Modi.

The BJP no longer has to incite communal riots to inflame passions. Jehadi
elements are doing it anyway, and handing over public sentiment on a platter to
the BJP. Witnesse temple attacks in Jammu and Akshadharm. Expect more such
attacks, and not on temples alone. Expect each attack to strengthen the BJP and
weaken its rivals.A paradigm shift has taken place in Indian elections. The old
aphorism, that all politics is local, now rings hollow.

International Islamic militancy, with or without Pakistani support, has suddenly
become a major issue, whether secularists like it or not. Nobody knows who the
temple attackers in Gujarat and Jammu were. A half-competent police would have
stunned the militants with some device, captured them alive, and used
interrogation to unearth the underlying plot. But our incompetent police killed
them. The BJP claims they were Pakistani agents, and this is widely believed.

I have no doubt that the temple attacks greatly aided Modi's victory in Gujarat,
just as the Pakistani attack on Kargil ensured Vajpayee's victory in the general
election of 1999. In India, the quality of governance is so indifferent that
incumbent governments tend to be voted out. But when a major security threat
arises, when the state seems under attack by foreign forces, the incumbent is
suddenly in a strong position to rally support provided it sends out an
appropriately jingoistic message. The BJP is fully capable of this. The Congress
is not. The Marxists are not. And so secular forces are losing out, while
communal ones are gaining credibility. International Islamic militancy has taken
root in our neighbourhood. The Taliban may have been ousted in Afghanistan, yet
the city of Khost is being bombarded by al-Qaeda forces located in the
autonomous tribal regions of the North West Frontier Province of Pakistan.

President Musharraf has lined up behind the USA, but Pakistan contains strong
pockets of support for jehadi groups. Al-Qaeda is believed to have a major
operation going in Karachi. Islamic militants have bombed churches and killed
foreign businessmen, diplomats and local politicians. President Musharraf is
trying to hunt with the hounds and run with the hares. He seeks to crush al-
Qaeda and other extremists who want to assassinate him, yet he wishes to feed
the militancy in Kashmir.I do not know who will win the internal struggle in
Pakistan. But clearly the struggle will be long and bloody. Which means that we
can expect constant new jehadi attacks on Indian temples and state institutions.
Every time that happens, Narendra Modi will begin to look a prophet and
crusader, and secular forces will find it difficult to gain the initiative. That
is why I view him as a future Prime Minister.

Let me not exaggerate. India is a large, complex land with many social and
economic problems that have nothing to do with militancy or Pakistan. Many of
these other issues will dominate from time to time, which is why I do not expect
the BJP to have a monopoly of power at the Centre or the states. Others will win
from time to time. But unquestionably the jehadi phenomenon has created a bright
future for the BJP, and for Narendra Modi.

Hi Nitin,
I have strong reservations about your theory of the aryan and dravidians. I
think you still have in your mind about the Aryan invasion, aryans being
superior to the dravidians and so on. Please check the current literature,
archeological archieves and various other sources. The theory has been disproved
by various scholars world wide. Infact now the new theory is Aryan immigration
theory. The inhabitants of the indus-sarswati valley civilizations had migrated
due the draughts and natural calamities during that time. Otherwise as an
arguement sake, How can the aryans ( who supposed to have invaded the indus
valley in 1600-1400 BC) write and describe about mighty Sarswati river in Vedas,
which dried up long time back ~2000-1800 BC. Infact the school syllabus has been
changed in certain US states (information courtesy Prof Subhash Kak), indicating
the myths about Aryan Invation theory. But in india still we read the same
invasion by aryans. Hope will be corrected soon. Anyway you anybody has got any
doubts, he can contact Shri Michel Danino, Mira aditi centre.
suku.

hi,
29 m single delhi.
basically from himachal.
looking forward to find
interesting, nice, decent
friends. send me email.
a2632000@...
can add me in yahoo msngr
same id ( a2632000 )
thanks.

bye--- :-)

I read this somewhere:

Anything good in life is either illegal, immoral, or fattening.

Why so ? Ever wondered?

Would love to hear your views!

Nitin

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The problem of conversions in India is linked with castesim. Until and unless the lower castes (?) are not given a respectable place in the society people are going to seek relief through relegious conversions.

I have doubts about BJP 's theory of Hindutva. That is Aryan nationalism which has its roots in the Vedas. There is bound to be a clash between the claimed original Indians.. The Dravidians down South for one..

Here are two links on opposite views about conversions.

Unethical craft of conversion 

To be or not to Be - The Conversion Debate

Varsha Bhonsle - talks some sense here.

Nitin

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Hi Just wanted to add something to this......the reason, Sarju, could
be that it is not permitted in Hinduism to convert. You are born a
Hindu , you CANNOT convert into Hinduism. The brahmins are very
snooty about it. You can start practising Hinduism on your own but
there is no priest who will convert you. This is one reason that the
large no. of conversions that took place in the last century were not
able to convert back even when they wanted to.



--- In Shimlahangout@y..., sarju5 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> During the Christmas season over here .... there are so many
stories
> in the media about how nice people in the west are are .... helping
> the kids in Afghanistan by donating the toys and all on the
> christmas ......
> The whole thing sort of appalles me .... I mean why are they doing
it
> on christmas ... why did'nt they do it on Ramadaan .... it is like
> trying to influence other religions .....
>
> This is something I really like about the religions from the east:
> Hinduism never resorted to conversions .....
> Hello .... I really don't know much about history ... but from
> whatever that I do know I have a belief that people in Hinduism and
> Buddhism never resorted to forcible conversions or even conversions
> through gullibe talks ..... these religions basically represent a
way
> of life rather than a religion in true essence .....
>
> this is quite a strong point of these religions .... they let
people
> what they are ... they do not try to brainwash people .... quite a
> wholistic approach and very good for the spiritual enlightenment
>
> This is quite a contrast to what the preachers of Islam and
> Christianity generally do .... I really do not have anything
against
> these religion ... and I am just expressing my views ... I hope
that
> I do not offend anyone .... If I did offend someone please accept
my
> apologies !!!!
>
> Peace

I recently read India: The Siege Within by MJ Akbar. It gives a detailed account of the historic prespective about Muslims in India, Pakistan, the Punjab & Kashmir problem. Quite an interesting reading I must say. The book deals with the issues in length facing India today, I have compiled some interesting chapters to my home page.. Thirteen chapters to be precise. Go through them if you are interested.

Here is the link.

or try http://nityin.tripod.com/nitin/id17.html

Hi
a nice commentary on SECULARISM, a much debated word in india. Do we really=
  know the meaning..
http://www.sulekha.com/articledesc.asp?cid=280094

You can also find out views of the some of the readers on the same articles=
  at
http://www.sulekha.com/allcomments.asp?cid=280094


Route of Indian Secularism -- A Labyrinth!
Viswanathan Subbarayan



Add this Article to my Favorites



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Reader
Comments (9)


Secularism the 'undefined' word in the Indian constitution is the
most debated topic in the media nowadays -- be it left, center or right. Wh=
at is secularism? As the Constitution of India left out the meaning we have =
to take the help of the dictionary. Browse through any dictionary you may fi=
nd meanings such as these:

1. A doctrine that rejects religion and religious considerations
2. No religious considerations in civil affairs or public education

Now compare it with what we practice as secularism. They are certainly not
the same. Then, what do we follow in the garb of secularism? What is the de=
bate on secularism all about when we do not know what it really means?

Let us take the first meaning -- A doctrine that rejects religion and relig=
ious considerations. Do we reject religious considerations while governing t=
his country? The other day, I was watching a News program on TV. I saw the t=
hen Chief minister of Jammu and Kashmir Farooq Abdullah saying, "because the=
  President nominee is already a Muslim (Dr. Kalam), I may not be nominated a=
s Vice-President." What has being a Muslim got to do with the Vice-President=
's post? It only requires an Indian! If the Chief minister of a state speaks=
  these words, can we by any measure say we don't have any religious consider=
ations? What about the Shiv Sena and the Muslim League? Their vote banks are=
  completely polarized. Even the so-called secular Congress Party needs the s=
upport of the Muslim League in the State of Kerala to win any election.

Let us take the second meaning -- No religious considerations in civil affa=
irs or public education. Civil affairs need to be conducted with civil laws.=
  Are civil laws the same for all Indians? Again the answer is a resolute No.=
  Separate marriage Acts for different religions, separate laws on hereditary=
  issues, separate laws for adoption -- you know a Christian or a Muslim will=
  not be able to adopt a child easily. When polygamy is punishable by law for=
  Hindus, it is not punishable for Muslims! What about educational institutio=
ns? If it is a minority educational institution, it has many privileges -- w=
hereas others have none. Here too, religion is one of the essential factors =
in deciding the status of the term minority.

What about temple affairs? While all Hindu temples in India are taken over =
by the Government in the name of safeguarding them, other religions have bee=
n left to handle their places of worship themselves. But in reality, most of=
  the Hindu temples are in bad condition. When grants are given to all religi=
ous institutions, temples are not given the share of money that people offer=
  -- it safely goes into the coffers for other works. At the same time, just =
because cows are sacred to Hindus, its slaughter is prohibited. On the other=
  hand, the Supreme Court judgment on the Shah Bano case was overridden by th=
e Parliament.

We neither follow secularism to the tenets of the dictionary nor treat all =
religions the same way. It is a labyrinth in all respects. It is one of our =
directionless isms. Our secularism distrusts its own people, particularly Mu=
slims. But will not move decisively against Pakistan when it violates our so=
vereignty. It kills thousands of innocents in Gujarat, but is ready to give =
amnesty to the terrorists in the name of peace. Is there any hope that these=
  things will change in the near future? Answers to these questions have to b=
ecome laws, and laws have to be implemented ruthlessly -- even if it means u=
se of force.

Some of the essentials that need to get done are:

๐ A legislation that says no status quo of any religious place can be chang=
ed by anybody or any organization, including Ayodhya.
๐ A legislation that allows the state to ban any group that promotes religi=
ous hatred. POTO should be enough.
๐ Revive what is said in the Indian constitution -- The State shall endeavo=
r to secure for the citizens a uniform civil code throughout the territory o=
f India. It is an unequivocal mandate under Article 44 of the Constitution o=
f India, which seeks to introduce a uniform personal law -- a decisive step =
towards national consolidation. The Uniform Civil Code (UCC) for instance. J=
ust because BJP had it in its election manifesto, anybody who brings UCC imm=
ediately becomes a right-winger. But UCC is the only way to permanently quel=
l fanaticism from our country, be it Hindu, Muslim or Christian.
๐ A legislation that bars the State from celebrating any religious function=
.
๐ A legislation that bars ministers from attending any function organized i=
n the name of religion and in the capacity of a minister, he or she cannot b=
ow down to a swami or sadhu. The person who does this will automatically los=
e the ministerial post. After all, if a Prime Minister or President is for t=
he entire country, how can he or she bow down in front of somebody, whom a l=
arge part of the people don't believe in.
๐ A legislation to regulate all educational institutions, including madrass=
as should be enacted. No institution will be allowed to incite hatred among =
people in the name of religion, be it Friday sermons in a mosque or Bajrang-=
  Dal's trishul enclaves.
๐ The State should set up an autonomous body and get out of managing temple=
s.
๐ No special treatment in case of slaughtering the animals. If a Hindu does=
  not like slaughtering cows, let him not slaughter.
๐ No subsidy for Haj or other piligrims for religious activities.

Whatever that needs to be done to separate religion and state, should be do=
ne. If we have to move forward, we should not have all these divisions that =
exist in our society. I have read many articles about 1000 years of Muslim r=
ule, 200 years of Christian rule and so on. Let us put a stop to such things=
. India is one and will be governed by Indians -- not by Hindus, Muslims or =
Christians. Redefine the meaning of secularism as respect for all religions.=
  At the same time, the civil, criminal or personal laws should be based on n=
atural laws and not on the basis of any religious scriptures. Natural laws c=
an be debated and deliberated upon by eminent persons and arrive at a conclu=
sion -- let them become the laws! Most of the current laws were made primari=
ly to placate the Muslim League when they insisted on the partition of the c=
ountry during the 1940's. But partition did take place even after making the=
se laws. To follow the same laws even after 55 years of independence without=
  having UCC may put even the bit of secularism we have in jeopardy. Overt re=
ligious differentiation in the society must be removed permanently from the =
scene; if we have to pride ourselves in being a secular country. Until then,=
  we will keep reading about the Godhra and Gujarat carnages, and keep masque=
rading in the name of secularism!

During the Christmas season over here .... there are so many stories
in the media about how nice people in the west are are .... helping
the kids in Afghanistan by donating the toys and all on the
christmas ......
The whole thing sort of appalles me .... I mean why are they doing it
on christmas ... why did'nt they do it on Ramadaan .... it is like
trying to influence other religions .....

This is something I really like about the religions from the east:
Hinduism never resorted to conversions .....
Hello .... I really don't know much about history ... but from
whatever that I do know I have a belief that people in Hinduism and
Buddhism never resorted to forcible conversions or even conversions
through gullibe talks ..... these religions basically represent a way
of life rather than a religion in true essence .....

this is quite a strong point of these religions .... they let people
what they are ... they do not try to brainwash people .... quite a
wholistic approach and very good for the spiritual enlightenment

This is quite a contrast to what the preachers of Islam and
Christianity generally do .... I really do not have anything against
these religion ... and I am just expressing my views ... I hope that
I do not offend anyone .... If I did offend someone please accept my
apologies !!!!

Peace

LORD RAMA CAPTURED IN KULLU BY AN INDIVIDUAL

The poll fever has started building up..!!

Hi this one is taken from
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021222/edit.htm#7
shows the how Parthiv the young indian wicket keeper gave a befitting reply to
Pakistanis in South Africa.
Also the earlier column by Francois Gauthier is taken from
http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/dec/20franc.htm
suku


Angry young cricketer

It was quite a few months back that an Under-19 international cricket tournament
came for discussion in the corridors of the sanctum sanctorum of Indian
democracy: Parliament. Dilip Vengsarkar had taken the Indian team to South
Africa for the Under- 19 tournament.

Temperatures rose when India played Pakistan. The Indian players were urbane and
were well versed in English. The Pakistanis, on the other hand, were from the
rural background and could hardly speak English. At one stage, a Pakistani
player abused the Indian players.

While most Indian players kept quiet, the cherub-faced Indian Under-19 Captain
Parthiv Patel, surged ahead and virtually locked horns with the troublesome
Pakistani player. After some time, the Pakistani was silenced and Patel returned
with triumphant looks. Vengsarkar could not help but share his wonderment with
Patel. He asked the young lad how he was able to do this when everybody was
convinced that he was not long out of the cradle.

Patel replied that he hails from Kalupur in Gujarat, the Muslim-dominated region
which was among the worst-affected riot-hit areas post-Godhra. What Patel did
tell the Pakistani is obviously unprintable but he did not forget to mention to
Vengsarkar that in Kalupur everybody, irrespective of whether he is a Hindu or a
Muslim, undergoes training for throwing acid bulbs and thus the Pakistani was no
match for him. Now comes the most interesting part of the story. The story was
recently narrated in the corridors of Parliament by a key leader of the BJP.

The way communists cry about Gujraatis without knowing there past. 2000 yea=
rs back parsis came to Gujraat and they are still living with gujraatis peac=
efully, similarly the case with jews. Why is it that Gujratis have to fight =
with Christians and Muslims.......Just read on..

The other day I visited a tribal village, which was only 20 kms away from B=
hubaneswar. The poverty I witnessed there was appalling: no drinking water, =
no proper housing, the children to whom we distributed food packets were sic=
kly looking, undernourished, dirty and badly clothed.

The whole village was in a kind of wasteland, where one could not see a sin=
gle tree, or any newly planted sapling. Paresh Nayak of Odisha International=
  told me that thousands of crores had been sanctioned by the government in t=
his area, for housing, development, or afforestation, but every single paisa=
  goes in the pockets of corrupt officials, from top to bottom.

In fact the only organisation which is trying to do something -- and which =
was responsible for the food distribution as well as the sole tribal school =
in the whole area -- is the much maligned Washington-based IDRF, which is su=
pposed, according to the Western and Indian press, to only 'fund Hindu funda=
mentalism.'

Nevertheless, when one witnesses such awful and unfair poverty just a few m=
inutes away from the nouveau riche glitter of Indian arrogant cities, one ca=
nnot but think that all the Arundhati Roys, Praful Bidwais, N Rams, Shabana =
Azmis, Prannoy Roys and other die hard Marxists are right: only a revolution=
  will bring fairness and justice to the poor and downtrodden of India.

In fact, one can even go further: when people like myself, who keep defendi=
ng a certain spiritual idea of India, the greatness of Hindu culture and eth=
os, are suddenly confronted by that 'other' reality of this country, our lof=
ty drawing-room idealism is blown away by what we see, whether in Bhubaneswa=
r, in Uttar Pradesh, or Tamil Nadu. If I were born an untouchable or a downt=
rodden, there is no doubt in my mind that I would have become a Naxalite -- =
given my militant propensities!

And if tomorrow missionaries descend upon the village I just visited in Ori=
ssa and open a dispensary, a school, then a church, why shouldn't these poor=
  tribals convert to Christianity, when their own more fortunate Hindu brothe=
rs and sisters not only never cared after them for centuries, but stole the =
money which was meant for them?

Yet, all my years in India have taught me that there is a third way, which =
is neither of capitalism nor of communism. One could call it 'spiritualised =
socialism,' as envisioned by Sri Aurobindo and today practiced by Sri Sri Ra=
vi Shankar's Art of Living. A Hindu temple or a Hindu organisation has no me=
aning unless it also acts as a social centre, helps the poor, gives away mon=
ey, houses, imparts education and hygiene.

Indeed the Art of Living foundation does just that with its volunteers goin=
g in thousands of villages all over India and selflessly bringing hygiene, h=
ousing, harmony and human values. It is true that there are countless NGOs a=
ll over India doing the same job, but unless they pass on along with their m=
aterial help some spiritual values pertaining to India's ancient culture, th=
ey are failing in their task.

Finally, I would like to tell my Marxist friends that instead of crying the=
mselves hoarse over the BJP's victory in Gujarat, of screaming about the 'sa=
ffronisation of India,' or the 'fascist trend set by these results,' they sh=
ould look at it in a different manner. If this is a Nazi trend, then the mil=
lions of Gujarati Hindus: upper and middle class, low castes and tribals, wh=
o voted for Narendra Modi, are all Nazis.

Yet the Indian voter has always shown that he is smart and that he usually =
casts his ballot in a certain way because he wants to put across a message. =
What if Gujarat was the first sign that tolerant, peace-loving Hindus who fo=
r centuries have accepted other religions and ethnicities and allowed them t=
o practice and prosper in peace (UNESCO recently released a report saying th=
at out of 128 countries where the Jews lived up to 1948, in only one -- Indi=
a -- were they not persecuted), are fed-up of being made fun off, sullied, h=
arassed, killed, their temples sprayed with bullets and grenades, their trai=
n burnt, their Parliament attacked, their markets blown up, their women rape=
d?

What if it was a warning to the Muslims of India that the majority communit=
y of this country will no more allow the burning of innocent children and wo=
men, for the only crime that they are Hindus? What, however reprehensible th=
eir acts was, if peace-loving Hindus have shown, for the first time, that th=
ey can retaliate in kind and that Islam doesn't have a copyright on hatred, =
bloodshed and mad violence? At a time when India's government is the laughin=
g stock of the world -- as shown by the contempt that much smaller countries=
  such as Malaysia, Portugal or Saudi Arabia have shown to India by refusing =
to extradite criminals -- the common Hindu is telling his government, his co=
untrymen, whether they are Hindus, Christians or Muslims, and the world, tha=
t he has had it…