I agree with Immanuel and Debal on this point. The tendency of the modern state
and the dominant communities is to declare the subordinates criminals according
to the laws they make to protect their own interests. Often these interests go
against those of the communities whose sustenance these resources are while to
our class they are spaces of recreation and and relaxation. This right cannot
get priority over the right to a life with dignity. I would not think of
violating the law as the first option but would work for change in the law to
protect the right both of people's communities and of wildlife to a life with
dignity. These two have to go together. One cannot be protected without the
other and one cannot protect wildlife at the cost of the people's communities.
Let us work for that change.

Walter


Dr Walter Fernandes
Director, North Eastern Social Research Centre
110 Kharghuli Road (1st floor)
Guwahati 781004
Assam, India
Tel (91-361) 2602819
Email: nesrcghy@...
www.creighton.edu/CollaborativeMinistry/NESRC

----- Original Message -----
From: Immanuel Varte
To: andamanicobar@...
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [andamanicobar] One Killed in Jarawa Attack


The topic on the unfortunate Jarawa issue has been going on with much
passion for quite a time. I would also like to join in on the
discussion and open my own argument by reiterating Dr. Debal Deb's "I,
for one, surely would rather knowingly break the law or do anything
wrong that can be potentially described as criminal to uphold the
rights of the indigenous people than join the camp of the elite,
western-educated conservationist snob."
Here, as in the case of the Jarawas and many others, is a question of
what or who is regarded as 'criminal' according to the modern-state
concept and what or who is not regarded as 'criminal' by the same. I
would like to ask further the concept of 'criminal' according to
indigenous thoughts. According to me, utter disregard of the
environment, peoples' thoughts and concepts amounts to the greatest
criminal offence as it offended and trampled upon the very inert
rights of those indigenous peoples.
All of we I believe, at one time or the other, physically or mentally
went or rebelled against a generally accepted norm or law- be it of
the state or of the society itself, for the sake of something we feel
is better or right for oneself in particular and for others in
general. Dr. Debal's stand of knowingly going against a recognized
norm or law for a positive change or to safeguard those in need of
safeguard needs guts but is also actually the right thing and many
times too, the only option open for every right-thinking members of a
society. I do wish people start to understand that going against a
system for a better tomorrow is not a crime even if its written as a
crime by the state or society and start to accept the fact that
sometimes you need to fight against a prevailing system in order to
attain a more sustainable future. Among many others, Mahatma Gandhi,
for one, did just that. He fought against a system, disobeying and
breaking the many laws enacted by the State (in his case the British
Empire). By breaking many of the laws enacted by the state for the
sake of freedom, can he be called a 'criminal' . Rather, is he not our
beacon, guide, inspiration for many others and the father of our
nation? Is Fighting against an alledgedly corrupt government as done
now in Thailand and elsewhere for the sake of a better society and
country a crime? Is fighting against an oppressive system for one's
rights, recognition and dignity a crime? For me the answer is a big
NO. In this sense, I do believe the Jarawas' and Dr. Debal's stands
stand justified and also actually done and practiced by many of us no
matter how much we try to deny it. The only caution to this approach
is that one should constantly be aware that, no matter what the
situation, there are always means available for a non-violent,
sustainable and productive ways to fight against those very system we
are against rather than a regressive, destructive, violent means.
It is a crime to ignore or not make any attempts to correct the wrongs
in our society or country while being conciously aware of it and
waiting for others to do. This amounts to sheer coldness,
heartlessness, selfishness, hypocrisy and cowardice. This is also the
lacuna we suffer from in India. Imitating an English gentleman will do
us no good eventhough sometimes, to work from within, you need to put
on an wolf's skin and be among the wolves.
In the case of the Jarawas, the criminals are the ones who blatantly
violated the Jawaras' rights and any mechanism that support those
violators no matter even if they are the ones who enact the laws of
the country and should therefore not be allowed to repeat it again.
The Jarawas just reacted in the only way they knew how and they cannot
be blamed for this. It should be understood that so-called "savages",
"primitives" are actually endowed with more understanding, wisdom and
are often more law-abiding than so-called 'civilized', 'educated',
'law-abiding' peoples who lacks understandings of both others,
themselves or of their environment.

Immanuel

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 5:19 PM, Debal Deb <debaldeb01@...> wrote:
> The point is : Which act as criminal is defined by the Establishment. As is
> well recorded, the Criminal Tribes Act defined the Lodha and teh Chenchu as
> criminals, just because they refused to take to the plough. If someone
> considers that is "potentially criminal", that's her problem embedded in
> conformity to the Establishment. The Law does not justify many thiungs.
> Many ethically bad things are legally approved, many illegal things are
> ethically correct. Millions of people believe that killing humans is a
> criminal offence, but our army kills people (including our own countrymen)
> with impunity.
> I need to be explicit to be congruent with Malini's issue with regard to
> what happened to the Jarawa. In the first place, I took up the diatribe in
> congruence with Walter Fernandez's comment: "I would be careful not to take
> such a drastic view of hunting by the
> tribals. Today it has become a problem because of the shortage caused by
> outsiders interfering with their livelihood." Very preceise.
> I never would support the fishermen who violated the Jarawas' right to
> life and livelihood. No doubt, the fishers are not indigenous people, while
> the Jarawas are. If any group of "mainstreamed" and "civilised" fishers
> happen to act criminally, viz., destroy the native forests, overhunt the
> Jarawa's prey base, encroach on their territory, it's the fault of our
> civilised attitude toward Nature - a view that we want to impose on the
> "savage" people with the high-handed mission to civilise them. If the
> Jarawas protest and resist the violant acts of our destroying their
> livelihood, resource base and culture, the protest is dubbed a "criminal"
> act, but the cause - what Fernandez euphemistically calls "shortage caused
> by outsiders" - is conveniently ignored.
> Just recall what happened to the farmers at Singur, whose lands were
> suddenly robbed away by the State, without prior consent of the farmers, for
> the benefit of a single industrialist. Thousands were evicted overnight, in
> the name of development. That was no crime! When the farmers resisted, and
> challenged the State's authority, at the cost of their lives, they were
> dubbed "violent", "criminals", "terrorists" and so on. In this case, the
> State was a Marxist party-led government. Don't we find the same age-old
> agenda of civilising the "uncivilised"/ "savage"/ "underdeveloped"/
> "backward people"?
> The fishers of the ANI must regret for their criminal act. The government
> must apologise for maintaining a regime conducive of violating the rights of
> the Jarawa, Onge, Shompen, Sentineli, Greater Andamanese, etc.. The Jarawas
> and anyone who tries to uphold the rights of the indigenous people need not
> feel sorry. I, for one, surely would rather "knowingly break the law or do
> anything wrong that can be potentially described as criminal" to uphold the
> rights of the indigenous people than join the camp of "the elite,
> western-educated conservationist snob."
> Thanks for the opportunity to share my view on this forum.
> Debal
>
>
>
> ====================
> Dr. Debal Deb
> Centre for Interdisciplinary Studies
> (www.cintdis.org)
> 9 Old Calcutta Road
> Barrackpore, KOLKATA 700 123, INDIA
> Tel: (+91-33) 2592 8109 Fax:(+91-33) 2229 9009
> mobile: (+91) 94340 62891
> Email: cintdis@... / debaldeb01@...
>
> --- On Sun, 30/11/08, Malini Shankar <mogli@...> wrote:
>
> From: Malini Shankar <mogli@...>
> Subject: Re: [andamanicobar] One Killed in Jarawa Attack
> To: andamanicobar@...
> Date: Sunday, 30 November, 2008, 9:19 AM
>
> Ah!
> I must say I would much rather remain an elite, western educated erudite
> conservationist snob than knowingly break the law or do anything wrong that
> cab be potentially described as criminal. However, it takes this educated
> snobish breed to abstain from judging people... as we grow older I
> undersytand that it is a set of circumstances that prompt people to do
> actions which they will hopefully regret later atleast.
>
> In this instance could it be that the poacher / fishermen took for granted
> the vulnerability of the Jarawas, or presumed that law has no meaning in the
> Jarawa reserves? There are thick layers of misconceptions we are dealing
> with I think. And it is also very heartening to note that opinions are
> respected and offers a great platform for debate... utter essence of
> democracy.
> regards
> Malini
> (c)
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may
> be subject to legal privilege.The pictures and multimedia files attached
> herewith are meant for one time publication / broadcast alongwith the
> articles
> submitted by this journalist / photographer. Reprinting or republication in
> any form calls for written permission of the photographer.
> All content, and attachments with this e mail are copyright protected. This
> e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender.
> Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
>
> Malini Shankar
> Environmental Journalist / Nature Photographer /
> TV & Radio Producer,
> # 1 / 1 "Amrutha" Police Station Road, (New # 3)
> Basavanagudi
> Bangalore 560004
> Tel: +91 80 2667 7090
> Cellphone: +91 0 944 805 5645
> mailto: mogli@satyam. net.in
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Debal Deb" <debaldeb01@yahoo. com>
> To: <andamanicobar@ yahoogroups. co.in>
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 6:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [andamanicobar] One Killed in Jarawa Attack
>
> Dear Walter,
> Thanks for your response. I appreciate how modestly you have expressed your
> difference of opinion. But sorry, I cannot refrain from being a bit more
> explicit in response to Malini's c omments.
> Malini's view is redolent of the typical urban Western-educated elite who
> presume that their idea of "democracy", "crime" and "rights" are absolute
> and universal. This is the attitude that allowed the continuation of the
> extremely racist Criminal Tribes Act well after the Indiependence. The
> British eilite believed that Lodhas of Bengal and Chenchus of Andhra Pradesh
> were inborn "criminals" because they refused to abandon their traditional
> hunting-gathering way of living and take to the plough!
> Of course there is a universal cultural psychological feature. All human
> societies, universally consider killing humans a crime, because that's a
> privilege humans have allowed themselves as a result of human social
> evolution. Of necessity, we consider that it's completely unacceptable to
> kill humans, but ethically acceptable if humans kill non-humans for some
> reasonable use. Thus, we kill fish and harvest rice grains for the purpose
> of eating them, without compunction, but feel it wrong to torture a cow or
> dog. As for the inanimate things, we have almost no sanction against
> "cruelty". Thus you may rebuke a child if she breaks a calculator, because
> she deprived others of its use, but NOT because the calculator suffered
> pains. This universal attitude of feeling of humans toward other humans is
> often extended to the non-human world in many many indigenous societies.
> There are almost no instance of an indigenous person hunting an animal that
> s/he does not eat, no instance of an indigenous tradition laying waste to a
> forest on a felling spree. Such profilgate abuse of nature is common in
> modern societies, because the utilitarian ethic dictates that "what is not
> immediately useful can be disposed of". The urban "conservationist" elite
> does not mind clearing a whole forest to create a mega river dam in order to
> ensure supply of electricity for their refrigerators and air conditioning
> machines at home, because that's Development! The "conservationist" elite
> does not object to the US Navy spewing millions of oil into the Persian Gulf
> and killing thousands of birds and millions of marine animals - because
> that's a price for Democracy! They consider that the White's exterminations
> of the Indian cheetah, the Bengal florican and the Passenger Pigeon with
> "sporting" rifles were records of valiant, gallant
> sports. They won't mind the great White missions of civilizing the
> savages - in Africa, the Americas, and Australia - by exterminating them, as
> instances of cruelty either. But when the "civilised" indigenous people, now
> bereft of all vital lcoal resources, adopt the modern market ethic imposed
> on them to hunt animals (as fur or meat) and trees (as timber) for sale on
> market, the same elite become excited and blame the cruel "barbarians" for
> destruction of wildlife. And they will race for a gorgeous set of wooden
> furniture and for eating at McDonald's !
> After spending over 14 years of research in resource use modes in indigenous
> societies in two continents, I am experiened enough to have shed all
> romanticism about the indigenous people. I know there are records of
> "overkill" of animals in Pleistocene era, and that early hunters drove to
> extinction many animals. And I know the hundreds of traditional cultural
> mechanisms to prevent exhaustive use of plants and animals in pre-modern
> societies. And then I (and we all) have witnessed the political-economic
> processes of modernisation, Westernisation, commodification and
> proselytisation of all indigenous "superstitious" cultures, leading to the
> widespread transformation of our valued "pristine" nature.
> India's wildlife will be better saved if the urban Westernised
> "conservationist" elite could deign to re-educate themselves to learn
> something about what Martinez-Alier calls "the environmentalism of the
> poor". For their intellectual and ideological re-orientation, I may
> recommend the following primers: Gadgil and Guha (1992), Guha and
> Martinez-Alier (1997), Ostrom (1990), Kellert and Wilson (1993), Berkes
> (2001) and a small paper of this author
> (http://cintdis. org/downloads/ Snr.pdf).
> Caveat: No personal malice intended to anyone.
> Debal
>
> ============ ========
> Dr. Debal Deb
> Centre for Interdisciplinary Studies
> (www.cintdis. org)
> 9 Old Calcutta Road
> Barrackpore, KOLKATA 700 123, INDIA
> Tel: (+91-33) 2592 8109 Fax:(+91-33) 2229 9009
> mobile: (+91) 94340 62891
> Email: cintdis@hotmail. com / debaldeb01@yahoo. com
>
> --- On Thu, 27/11/08, Dr. Walter Fernandes <walter.nesrc@ gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Dr. Walter Fernandes <walter.nesrc@ gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [andamanicobar] One Killed in Jarawa Attack
> To: andamanicobar@ yahoogroups. co.in
> Date: Thursday, 27 November, 2008, 9:17 AM
>
> Dear Malini
>
> I would be careful not to take such a drastic view of hunting by the
> tribals. Today it has become a problem because of the shortage caused by
> outsiders interfering with their livelihood. I believe that one should take
> a middle path of beginning with the right of human (especially tribal)
> communities to a life with dignity. Ways have to found of putting the rights
> of both of them together. Without it there is no way one can save either the
> tribal or the wildlife rights.
>
> Walter
>
> Dr Walter Fernandes
> Director, North Eastern Social Research Centre
> 110 Kharghuli Road (1st floor)
> Guwahati 781004
> Assam, India
> Tel (91-361) 2602819
> Email: nesrcghy@gmail. com
> www.creighton. edu/Collaborativ eMinistry/ NESRC
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Malini Shankar
> To: andamanicobar@ yahoogroups. co.in
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 2:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [andamanicobar] One Killed in Jarawa Attack
>
> This debate about civilised and uncivilised ethnic group has been going on.
> PTGs and other indigenous have secured legal immunity / or justify
> wildlife crime under the alibi of ritual hunting. I am a wildlife
> journalist and am more prone to using this line of arguement in defense of
> voteless voiceless wild animals, nevertheless killing a human being just on
> the grounds of unauthorised entry is a crime, ... even in tribal society.
> We, the erudite internet class of people think that democratic principles
> are not applicable to indigeous clans. But crimes against
> women, crimes like murder, are murders in all societies be they Amazonian
> tribes or Andamanese tribes or even Andhra society. The point is a crime is
> a crime, the essence of legislating democratic principles can be traced to a
> sociological / historical sense of fair play which can and ought to be
> traced to the platonic evolution of man. It is when this evolution cannot be
> confomed to, that laws are rendered somewhat alien to the society,
> and becomes impossible to implement. The point and purpose of legislation
> is to protect the victims in all societies, why do we keep forgetting that
> in this day and age?
> Malini
>
> (c)
> The information contained in this e-mail is confidential and may
> be subject to legal privilege.The pictures and multimedia files attached
> herewith are meant for one time publication / broadcast alongwith the
> articles
> submitted by this journalist / photographer. Reprinting or republication in
> any form calls for written permission of the photographer.
> All content, and attachments with this e mail are copyright protected. This
> e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the
> intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender.
> Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.
> Malini Shankar
> CEO
> Weltanschauung Worldview Media Centre
> # 1 / 1 Amrutha (New # 3) Police Station Road,
> Basavanagudi
> Bangalore 560 004
> India
> Tel: +91 80 2667 7090
> Cellphone: +91 0 944 805 5645
> mailto: malini@wwmcindia. com
> www.wwmcindia. com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: K.Narayanan
> To: andamanicobar@ yahoogroups. co.in
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [andamanicobar] One Killed in Jarawa Attack
>
> Dear All,
> I saw the mail just now (25th) circulated in this forum, even though
> incident happened on 19th ..
> It raises a few disturbing questions.
> How can the fishermen halt at a tribal reserve area ? It seems that, going
> by the statement, this halting is more regular than rare.
> Can you apply the same laws that is there for citizens of the country to
> the
> primitive tribes, like charging them under Murder etc.,?
> How reasonable it is for us to expect the tribes to behave and respond
> like other citizens ?
> If the tribes have to be left alone, they need to be left alone, simple
> is it not ?.
> At most, this can be classified as a unfortunate incident..
> Narayan.
> denisgiles wrote:
>
>>
>> Andaman Chronicle: Friday 21st November 2008
>>
>> Jarawa attacks local fishermen
>>
>> One Killed, Three Injured Badly at Mahua Tekri near Kadamtala
>>
>> Port Blair, Nov. 20: One fisherman was killed on the spot while three
>> others badly injured by the Jarawa tribe at Mahua Tekri near Kadamtala,
>> Middle Andaman yesterday 19th Nov. 2008. The team of fishermen was
>> returning from Diglipur to Port Blair after their catch and halted at
>> Mahua Tekri, which comes under the Jarawa Reserve.
>>
>> According to the report registered at PS Chatham, Port Blair, the
>> fishermen while passing through the area found no Jarawa at Mahua Tekri
>> and anchored their boat in the creek. Few got down from the boat while
>> one D. Eariah along with three others stayed back to cook food.
>>
>> But all of a sudden a team of Jarawa consisting of 14-15 of them
>> including men, women and children reached the shore from their huts
>> situated 100 meters away from the boat. The Jarawa expressed that they
>> were starving and wanted something to eat. But instead of lending food
>> to the Jarawa, Eariah who was seated over an Ice Box placed on the boat
>> challenged the tribe. As the tide was low, the entire group of Jarawa
>> managed to enter inside the boat. Eariah along with the three others
>> revolted but in the process one of the Jarawa men pulled out an arrow
>> and stabbed Eariah who succumbed to his injuries on the spot.
>>
>> Finding Eariah dead, the other three fishermen named Jogga Rao, Kurma
>> Rao and Christy tried to fight back but were again stabbed badly.
>> Noticing the clash, the remaining fishermen immediately jumped in the
>> water and swam away from the boat. The Jarawa then collected rice, other
>> eatables, dah and whatever they could find and returned back to the
>> forest.
>>
>> Noticing tribe vanish inside the forest, the remaining fishermen swam
>> back to the boat and fled away carrying the dead and the injured
>> members. But instead of proceeding towards Kadamtala which was just
>> couple of hours from the spot, they proceeded towards Port Blair fearing
>> that they might be booked under Law for entering inside Jarawa Reserve
>> by the Police at Kadamtala. On their way made a call using mobile phone
>> to the owner of the boat named Vallav Rao. The owner then informed the
>> matter to the Police Station, Aberdeen and asked the fishermen to return
>> to Chatham Jetty.
>>
>> The report also adds that Eariah and the three were new to the area
>> while the others who managed to escape the attack had been regularly
>> visiting the place `Mahua Tekri'.
>>
>> Finally after seven long hours of travel, the boat reached Chatham at
>> around 2.00 am on 20th Nov. 2008 carrying the body of Eariah and three
>> injured.
>>
>> The body of Eariah was taken for Post Mortem by the Police and was
>> handed over to the family members while the three injured have been
>> admitted in G.B. Pant Hospital.
>>
>> After recording the statement from the surviving fishermen, a case has
>> been registered against the Jarawa for murdering, attempt to murder,
>> theft etc. at PS Chatham under various sections of the Indian Penal
>> Code. The case has now been handed over to PS Kadamtala for further
>> investigation.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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