Dear Friends,

I have also been following this debate for a bit now. The fundamental objections
that I have to this kind of study (by some of the instiutions mentioned earlier;
I am NOT referring to ASI here) are two:

(i)THEY HAVE NEVER FOLLOWED THE BASIC GUIDELINES for doing this in the past
study (yes.. yes..on  the human migration CCMB and genetic polymorphisms by ISI)
and are UNLIKELY to do so now. It is to be noted that this is not due to lack of
knowledge of procedures and CLEARCUT guidelines that exist.

(ii)It is inherently wrong to project a clearly academic/ scientific exercise as
a means to CONSERVE/ IMMORTALIZE etc..as a desperate means.. for funding or
otherwise,

I do agree with Rauf and others that, the tribes are definitely not vanishing
because of DNA sampling and the scientific  curiosity.

Let me share with you a certain interview that appeared on a television channel
immediately after Tsunamis. Considering the above Investigator to be an expert
on Andaman tribals, the interviewer asked him as to what their fate would be
under such a catastrophe. He replied, "Well, we have their DNA samples and so we
don't need to worry."... with all seriousness and the respectability he demands.

Hello.. What!!   Well, thats that..

Regards

Suresh







       Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kingfisher looks at hotel tie-ups in Andaman
Tuesday November 6 2007 01:37 IST
http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEB20071105151614&Page=B&Headline=Ki\
ngfisher+looks+at+hotel+tie-ups+in+Andaman&Title=Business&Topic=0

ENS Economic Bureau

CHENNAI: With Kingfisher Airlines' daily direct service to Port Blair
from Chennai and Kolkata bringing up the daily flight count to 208, the
air carrier is now exploring fresher pastures like hook-ups with hotel
chains for lending a leg-up to the load factor.

Properties in the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, Lakshadweep Islands,
Cochin and Rajasthan are under the scanner as prospective partners for
offering a holiday package to Kingfisher passengers, including
accomodation and travel facilities particularly during the off season.

Most of the inhabitants of the Andaman and Nicobar islands being
Bengalis or Tamils, the Chennai and Kolkata airline connectivity are of
special significance. The UB Group airline expects a load factor of 70
percent on the 199-seater Airbus 321 which currently varies from an
occupancy of 55 to 80 seats daily.

"A lead time of 4 to 6 months is required for the occupancy to pick up,"
Global Sales Head V Raja told journalists visiting Port Blair. But
landing and taking off at Port Blair is not without hiccups. "The
airport is small and there is a hillock on one side due to which the
airport is operational only till 1 p.m. Due to limited hanger facilities
and parking bays, only few planes can be parked at a time," said Raja.

A pilot from a leading airline said the Port Blair airport was
unidirectional which means that planes could land in only one direction
and take off in another unlike other airports.

Dear Friends,
The Daily Telegrams, published from Port Blair is now available at the
following link

http://www.dtonthenet.com/
thanks
pankaj

TRINET Weekly News November 5, 2007



TRINet's November Newsletter is on Climate Change and Health and can be
accessed at
http://www.trinet.in/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?cid=35&lid=419


A dossier with reports and other material on activities taken up as part
of the NCACZM can be accessed at
http://www.trinet.in/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?cid=63&lid=420 (17Mb )


GENERAL
Norms for enhanced calamity relief announced : Chennai: The State
Government has announced norms for calamity relief, enhancing the
financial relief granted under many categories, taking into account the
revised guidelines issued by the Centre. In the new guidelines,
landslide, avalanche, cloud burst and pest attack (locust and rodent
menace) have been included in the definition of natural calamity in
addition to the existing ones – cyclone, drought, earthquake, fire,
flood, tsunami and hailstorm. A Government Order issued on October 29 by
the Revenue Department says the next of kin of those killed in a
calamity will get Rs.1 lakh. But this will not be applicable to an
Indian citizen who dies abroad or a foreigner who dies in India. The
order comes into effect immediately. The two-page order to which is
appended an exhaustive 12-page annexure details the assistance to be
given to small and marginal farmers to reclaim agricultural land, to
compensate for the loss of standing or perennial crops, loss of animals
and various subsidies for fishermen, handloom weavers and traditional
craftsmen.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/31/stories/2007103161800800.htm


Guidelines for management of cyclones in a month : Chennai: National
guidelines for the management of cyclones are likely to be released by
November-end, M. Shashidhar Reddy, Member of the National Disaster
Management Authority (NDMA), said here on Tuesday. Mr. Reddy, who
inaugurated a national conference on wind engineering organised by the
Indian Society for Wind Engineering and the Structural Engineering
Research Centre, told The Hindu that the guidelines would form the basis
for national and State plans on disaster management. Noting that the
guidelines were being formulated by the NDMA for every specific
disaster, he said those for earthquakes and industrial and chemical
disasters had been published. The guidelines for floods were under
preparation.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/31/stories/2007103162021000.htm

FINANCE
RTI brings tsunami fund irregularities to light : Thiruvavanthapuram:
Three years after tsunami hit Indian shores on December 26, 2004, the
Kerala government has found that Rs17.16 crore of the relief money spent
for rehabilitation programmes is unaccounted for. Though a commission
formed by the LDF government to probe allegations of irregularities in
tsunami fund allocation submitted its report, prepared by former chief
secretary M Vijayan Unni, in January, it was not made public till
advocate DB Binu resorted to the Right to Information Act.

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1131173

UN agriculture fund unveils more help for tsunami-hit Indian fishing
communities : In a press statement issued from its Rome headquarters,
the International Fund for Agricultural Development (IFAD) said
yesterday that it has loaned an extra $15 million to the Indian
Government as part of a broader $68.5 million programme to improve
conditions in Tamil Nadu state. Under the programme, local fishing
communities will have access to insurance services and social security,
while destructive fishing gear and practices will be phased out and new
technologies for packing, processing and selling fish will be
introduced. New fish auction halls, sheds, drying platforms and waste
disposal facilities will also be built to assist about 50 village fish
marketing associations sell their stocks and receive better prices. IFAD
added that training is being provided, mainly to young people, in skills
such as house and boat-building to ensure there are job opportunities in
fields other than fishing.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=24508&Cr=ifad&Cr1=

EARLY WARNING SYSTEMS
Experts Cite Slow Progress Toward Tsunami Warning System in Indonesia :
Plans call for more than 20 buoys to monitor seismic activity off the
Indonesian coast by the end of 2008.  Dr. Fauzi heads the tsunami
division at Indonesia's Meteorological and Geophysical Agency, and he
says only three have been installed, and two are now being repaired. At
a panel discussion of disaster preparedness with journalists Wednesday,
Fauzi said 18 siren towers have been erected along Indonesia's west
coast to sound the warning in case of a tsunami. One concern is
Sumatra's second largest city, Padang.  The fault that produced the 2004
tsunami thrusts southward just off the city's coast, and many
seismologists think recent upheavals along this line are likely to
continue. Most of Padang's 800,000 inhabitants live close to the shore
and there are few hills to run to if a tsunami hits.  Michael Rottman of
UNESCO's Disaster Information Center told journalists the city
government is working on plans for tsunami refuges.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-10-31-voa38.cfm


'GPS shield' will mean faster tsunami alerts : The German-Indonesian
Tsunami Early Warning System (GITEWS) is being developed by a team led
by Jörn Lauterjung of the National Research Centre for Geosciences in
Potsdam, Germany. Unlike a GPS method proposed last year, which detects
seismic waves transmitted through the Earth's crust to distant
receivers, the new ground-based system takes real-time measurements of
vertical ground motion - the type of fault movement more likely to
produce tsunamis (Journal of Geophysical Research, DOI:
10.1029/2006JB004640). To protect the Indian Ocean region, the proposed
shield would include an array of 18 GPS stations.

http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/tsunami/mg19526215.700

COASTAL MATTERS
Call for integrated approach to coastal zone management : Puducherry:
The need for an integrated approach to coastal zone management in Tamil
Nadu and Puducherry was stressed by speakers at a consultative meeting
on 'Restoration and protection of Tamil Nadu and Puducherry coastlines,'
in Auroville on Saturday. The speakers also called for a joint meeting
of members of the Coastal Zone Management authorities of the two States.
C.V. Shankar, Officer on Special Duty, Relief and Rehabilitation, in his
address, said the Tamil Nadu Government was initiating an Integrated
Coastal Zone Management Plan with assistance from the World Bank. The
plan was being prepared now and Danish Hydraulics Institute (DHI) had
been appointed to conduct a study. The Government was trying to
understand the coastal ecology in a better manner. Before constructing
harbours and ports, the State Government wanted to ensure that the
structures were perfect in a particular setting. "We want to study the
East Coast at least for a couple of seasons with the data that we
already have," he said. Regarding the issue of maintenance, he said the
Government, in consultation with local bodies, was developing a
permanent non-lapsable maintenance fund. Secretary to the Government of
Puducherry, Public Works Department, A. Anbarasu said the territorial
Government too would take steps for an integrated coastal zone
management plan. The Puducherry Government was preparing a comprehensive
capital dredging scheme at a cost of Rs. 13-14 crore and this would help
compensate at least a portion of the sea erosion. Plans charted out by
Puducherry for coastal management would be shared with the Government of
Tamil Nadu, he said.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/04/stories/2007110460680600.htm


Tidal waves hit Alappuzha coast : alappuzha: Several areas on the
Alappuzha coast were hit severely by tidal waves and sea erosion with
four houses being damaged completely and nearly 20 houses damaged
partially. Areas including Aryad South, Kanjiramchira, Thrikkunnapuzha
and Arattupuzha were among those affected by the sea's sudden change in
behaviour, attributed to climatic variations. While two houses in the
tsunami-hit Arattupuzha were shattered by the tidal waves, erosion of
the shore caused severe damage to one house in Aryad South. Seawater
entered houses in Kanjiramchira and Thrikkunnapuzha, according to
authorities. Additional District Magistrate Koshy John said Revenue
officials, including Ambalapuzha tahsildar Antony Dominique visited the
affected areas. The administration was verifying the damage to make
arrangements for financial assistance to the families, he said.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/31/stories/2007103151710300.htm


The importance of mangrove conservation in tsunami prone regions :
Agricultural expansion rather than shrimp farming is the major factor
responsible for the destruction of tropical mangrove forests in the
tsunami-impacted regions of Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Myanmar,
Bangladesh, India, and Sri Lanka, according to a new study published in
the Journal of Biogeography. Giri and other researchers used more than
750 Landsat satellite images to identify the remaining mangrove forests
of the region, to quantify the rates and causes of change from 1975 to
2005, and to identify deforestation 'hot spots,'. The study found that
the major factors responsible for mangrove deforestation in the study
area include agriculture encroachment (81%), aquaculture (12%), and
urban development (2%). However, shrimp farming is on the rise in
Indonesia and Thailand. Data and information generated from this study
can be used to identify potential rehabilitation sites, set conservation
priorities, and quantify the role of mangrove forests in saving lives
and property from natural disasters such as the Asian tsunami.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-10/bpl-tio103007.php


Coastal convulsions : The proposed Coastal Zone Management notification,
which is expected to replace the existing Coastal Regulation Zone
notification (1991), will hit the coastline like a second tsunami, say
activists. With the shifting of 'zones', entire fishing communities will
be moved out of coastal areas, making way for unbridled construction in
the name of 'development'. What can there possibly be in common between
high-flying industrialists promoting Special Economic Zones (SEZs) and
fishing communities eking out a living along the country's coastline?
Nothing. But clubbing them together becomes inevitable when SEZs find a
mention in the Coastal Zone Management (CZM) 2007 draft notification,
whereas the fisherfolk do not merit even two words in the document.

http://www.infochangeindia.org/features453.jsp


Kerala's Beach-Sand-Mining Issues To Be Tackled : According to Kerala's
Minister for Irrigation and Water Resources, the need for a system to
assess the impact of beach-sand-mining in the state has become
imperative. N.K. Premachandran was speaking at the inauguration of an
international workshop on 'Fluvial and marine processes of Cenozoic and
formation of placers'. The Centre for Earth Science Studies (CESS)
organized it , in the capital city on Thursday. Delivering the inaugural
address, the minister called for an environment auditing system that
could look into the causes for the increasing coastal erosion in the
State. "The damage caused by erosion is going up every year all along
the 600 km coastline, forcing the Government to spend crores of rupees
on coastal protection measures and protection of vulnerable communities.
"The rise in sea level, the after effects of the tsunami and the
increase in wave power are cited as the reasons. There are also fears
that beach-sand-mining triggers the erosion. Only a detailed research
will reveal the factors responsible for the phenomenon", Mr.
Premachandran averred.

http://www.medindia.net/news/Keralas-Beach-Sand-Mining-Issues-To-Be-Tackled-2881\
2-1.htm


More marine protected areas with well-developed management to be set up
for marine species conservation : At present there are 5 designated
Marine Protected Areas in the country, viz, Gulf of Mannar National
Park, Tamil Nadu, Gulf of Kutch Marine National Park & Gulf of Kutch
Marine Sanctuary, Gujarat, Mahatma Gandhi Marine National Park, Andaman
& Nicobar Islands and Gahirmatha Sanctuary, Orissa. Updated research on
marine bio-diversity is the need of the day for better conservation of
marine species. It is felt that it would not be pragmatic to undertake
studies of such dimensions by a single institute like the Wildlife
Institute of India. It is proposed to involve organizations like Central
Marine Fisheries Research Institute (CMFRI), Zoological Survey of India
(ZSI), National Institute of Oceanography, and other related institutes
and Universities, for a collaborative research on various aspects of
marine fauna and flora and later to associate the concerned State
Governments for preparation of special management plans for better
conservation of the marine bio-diversity.

http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=32348

LIVELIHOODS
Bicycles, lanterns and freezer boxes for fishermen : Chennai:
Tsunami-affected fishermen in Chennai will receive bicycles, first aid
kits, rechargeable electric lanterns, life jackets, freezer boxes and
fishing nets through a Central government grant under the Rajiv Gandhi
Rehabilitation Package. Fisheries Minister K.P.P. Sami on Friday
distributed a set of the relief materials to 10 fishermen. He said the
tahsildars concerned would be in charge of distributing the materials to
2,270 beneficiaries in the district. Each set is worth Rs. 40,000.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/03/stories/2007110359760400.htm


Aid disbursed to fishermen : Tuticorin: The Minister for Animal
Husbandry, P Geetha Jeevan, disbursed additional welfare assistance to
the tune of Rs.3.41 crore to 1,244 fishermen belonging to tsunami-hit
families from 15 coastal hamlets in the district, at a function held at
Amali Nagar near here on Monday. Each of the beneficiaries received a
kit containing a 'heavy duty bicycle', first aid box, ice box, portable
solar light, life jacket and fishing nets. Official sources said that
the beneficiaries were selected from among 3,442 persons who had
received the first instalment of relief in 2005.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/31/stories/2007103150750200.htm


Noni — a promising fruit for health : Noni (Morinda citrifolia) also
called as Indian mulberry is a small evergreen tree that grows to a
height of 10-12 feet. The fruits are used in the manufacture of fruit
drinks, medicines and dyes. In India the tree is predominantly grown in
coastal Kerala, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, Orissa, Andaman and Nicobar
Islands. Propagated through seedlings, noni can be cultivated in all
soil types though loamy soils are ideal. The tree is free from major
pests and disease infestations. In case of any pest or infestations
organic practices can be used to effectively control them. It can be
ideally grown in tsunami affected coastal areas. For more details visit
the website www.nonifamily.net

http://www.hindu.com/seta/2007/11/01/stories/2007110151212400.htm


After four years, fishermen net 'katal' : Nagapattinam: Fishermen of
Nagapattinam and Vedaranyam coastal hamlets have been able to net the
high quality 'katal' (kanavaai) fish during the current season after a
gap of about four years. Each mechanised boat brings not less than one
and half tonnes of this variety of fish after three days into the sea.
Tamil Nadu Meenavar Peravai secretary R.M.P. Rajendiran Nattartold The
Hindu that 'katal' was available only for about 15 to 20 days during the
season every year. It used to be available in plenty just a few
kilometre off the Nagapattinam coast, but it had shifted its breeding
place to the international waters near Sri Lanka. Fishermen, who
ventured into the sea in search of 'katal' in the last few days, found
through the 'eco-sounder' and 'fish pointer' equipment that the variety
was available in plenty only in the international waters at the
confluence of the three seas.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/04/stories/2007110452490300.htm

HOUSING AND INFRASTRUCTURE
Houses handed over to tsunami-hit families : Nagapattinam: A total of
2,177 houses constructed in the tsunami-hit villages of Chellur and
Kaadampadi in the disitrict, at an estimate of Rs.50 crores were handed
over to the beneficiaries on Saturday. Funded by the service
organisations, 'Caritas India' and 'CRS,' the houses were constructed by
the Thanjavur Multi-purpose Social and Service Society. In Chellur, the
State government allotted 12 acres. About Rs.4.20 crore was spent on
levelling the ground and providing cement roads. A sum of Rs.11 lakh was
spent on providing power supply to 731 houses in the area.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/29/stories/2007102959860700.htm


Govt. seeks Rs.270 crore more for tsunami houses : Puducherry: Chief
Minister N.Rangasamy on Monday said that the government had asked for
allocation of Rs.270 crore more from the Centre for construction of
additional houses for the tsunami victims. Shortly after holding
discussions with Joint Secretary in the Ministry of Home Affairs
B.A.Coutinho, who called on him at his office, he told reporters that
the government had also pleaded with the Centre to expedite the grant of
additional funds to the tune of Rs.100 crore for taking up projects in
the Public Works Department.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/10/30/stories/2007103052350300.htm


Rally against coastal resettlement policy : Chennai: Thousands of people
besides community leaders from coastal villages of Chennai, Tiruvallur
and Kancheepuram organised a protest rally here on Wednesday, protesting
the State Government's policies on coastal resettlement and the
treatment of the fisher communities.

S. Anjali, a community leader from Nochikuppam, said that people from
more than 100 villages had mobilised. "Today, more than 4,000 of us are
here to show our solidarity and request the Government to heed our
demands. All we want is the right to remain where we have been for
generations. The tsunami has been used to push us all out. Our lives and
livelihoods are based on fishing, what will we do if we are moved away
from the sea," she said. According to Vanessa Peter of Action Aid India,
most of the families, who were part of the movement, were
tsunami-affected. "Many of them have not received the housing they were
promised and have been asked to move away from the seashore to avail
themselves of new homes", she stressed. At the end of the procession,
organised under the banner of Coastal Community Protection Movement,
petitions listing the demands were submitted to the Chief Minister's office.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/01/stories/2007110161060500.htm

WATER AND SANITATION
"Sanitation an important indicator of development" : New Delhi: Former
President A. P. J. Abdul Kalam on Wednesday said sanitation and health
infrastructure are important indicators of development of a State and
called upon governments, private sector, non-government organisations
and corporate houses to make a combined effort to tackle the problem of
poor sanitation. "Everybody is aware of the magnitude of the problem of
poor sanitation in the country and dedicated efforts are needed to
address the issue. If the three Ministries of Social Justice and
Empowerment, Housing and Urban Poverty Alleviation and Water Resource
join hands, definitely they can provide all the people of the country
with a sustainable toilet system," said Dr. Kalam in his inaugural
address at the World Toilet Summit-2007 at Vigyan Bhavan here. Dr. Kalam
administered an oath to the participants to affirm their "resolve to
accelerate the sanitation coverage in our respective countries".

http://www.hindu.com/2007/11/01/stories/2007110154050400.htm

ANDAMAN AND NICOBAR ISLANDS
ACT Appeal India : Herewith we share with you fourth and final revision
of CASA, India's programme within the regional ACT International ASRE51
Tsunami appeal. The total amount requested for CASA has decreased from
$34,221,291 US (Revision 3) to $26,663,778 US (a reduction of $7,557,513
US). The revision has been made because of the partial but substantial
disengagement of CASA from the Andaman and Nicobar islands. CASA has
played a significant role in projecting the aspirations and desires of
the local Tribal Council to the local and national governments.
Unfortunately, lengthy negotiations with the government for approval of
the structural design of houses and other infrastructure in the Car
Nicobar island, developed by CASA in close consultation with the local
Tribal Council of the island, failed. Therefore, CASA felt forced to
withdraw completely from the housing and certain other infrastructure
construction components of the planned programme in Car Nicobar.

Full report from
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWFiles2007.nsf/FilesByRWDocUnidFilename/EMAE-78KP82\
-Full_Report.pdf/$File/Full_Report.pdf

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/EMAE-78KP82?OpenDocument&rc=3&emid=\
TS-2004-000147-LKA


Other Countries:

INDONESIA
More than 100.000 houses were built in Aceh & Nias : Banda Aceh, 31
October 2007- Director of the Rehabilitation and Reconstruction
Executing Agency for Aceh and (BRR) Kuntoro Mangkusubroto announced
today that more than 100.000 houses have been built till the end of
October 2007 for the victims of Tsunami and earthquake in Aceh and Nias
region. "Alhamdulillah, at this end of October 2007 we can finish
building the 100.000th house or to be exact 102.063 unit of houses for
our families in Aceh and Nias," Kuntoro said. From the total of 102.063
houses, 90.610 houses are located in the Nanggroe Aceh Darussalam
Province while the rest of 11.453 houses are located in the Nias
Islands, West Sumatera Province. Based on the 2005 blue print, the
target of housings to be built by BRR was 90.000 houses and then revised
to 120.000 houses based on the 2007 action plans.

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/THOU-78K3WV?OpenDocument


In the tsunami's wake, a school points the way to recovery : People in
the town of Lhoknga, Indonesia, recently celebrated the opening of a
junior high school that Mennonite Central Committee (MCC) helped rebuild
after it was destroyed by the Indian Ocean tsunami. About 250 students
attended an Oct. 25 dedication ceremony before attending classes in
their own school for the first time since the tsunami struck the coast
of Indonesia's Aceh province on Dec. 26, 2004. MCC provided about $1
million to construct and furnish the school in partnership with an
Indonesian organization, Center for Education and Development. The
school includes 12 classrooms, basketball and volleyball courts, a
computer lab, a science lab, an administration building and a library.
Yoder says that the school was planned in consultation with local
residents, and it was designed to withstand earthquakes. In the event of
another tsunami, which is unlikely, a new tsunami warning system is in
place with sirens to tell residents of Lhoknga and other coastal
communities to flee inland.

http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/RWB.NSF/db900SID/EMAE-78KPEM?OpenDocument&rc=3&emid=\
TS-2004-000147-LKA

SRI LANKA
CEA suspends clearing of Negombo mangrove swamps : Following
environmental groups protests against the clearing of mangrove swamps in
close proximity to the Negombo lagoon (for a Cabinet-approved housing
and water plant project they claim would adversely affect the
eco-balance of the lagoon), the Central Environment Authority (CEA) has
directed that clearing activity on an 8-acre block of land be suspended.
Shantha Kumara Muhandiram Divisional Secretary Negombo said he had asked
the NMC to clear a small area in the mangrove land to facilitate the
survey. He admitted that an excessive area had been cleared. In 2005 in
the aftermath of tsunami a plan to clear the controversial mangrove land
for a housing project for families affected by that disaster was
abandoned after a panel of officials representing various government
institutions including the CEA, the Forest Department and the Negombo
Divisional Secretariat concluded that clearing the area would have
harmful effects on the bio-diversity in the locality around the Negombo
lagoon. The panel of 14 participants had strongly recommended obtaining
an Environmental Impact Assessment report from the CEA before carrying
out development activity in the area as the land is "environmentally
very sensitive".

http://www.sundaytimes.lk/071104/News/news00023.html

THAILAND
Water Means Life for Poor Fishing Villages : Thursday, November 01, 2007
— It is difficult to imagine a less glamorous spot on Earth than Soi
Payang. A cluster of ramshackle houses sit on a dirt path off a rocky
track, barely accessible by road. The earth is waterlogged, the air is
fetid, and mosquitoes are biting even at 3:00 p.m. The glitzy hotels of
Phuket, Thailand's tourist resort island, are just a few miles away, but
economically and culturally the two places are worlds apart. Yet, just
three years after the South Asia tsunami killed seven people and
crippled the infrastructure of this rural community, villagers are now
enjoying a new lease on life. Thanks to a simple yet effective water and
sanitation program meticulously implemented by the American Red Cross
and the Thai Red Cross, the villagers of Soi Payang receive fresh water
by harvesting rain during the monsoon. The previous water sources here
were ponds, pipes and streams," says McGown. " But these were very high
in salt or iron content and didn't taste good." The six provinces in
southern Thailand are fortunate to have an eight- month rainy season.
During the rainy season, rain water is an abundant resource and can be
harvested if communities have the means to properly collect and store
water for household use. " To ensure local involvement and investment,
we asked for a 20 percent contribution toward costs from the
communities," says McGown. "We gave them a choice of ceramic, fiberglass
or plastic rainwater harvesting tanks." The result: A year later, nine
impoverished fishing communities have fresh water during the rainy
season, saving them from the backbreaking task of lugging water from
nearby streams or from paying for piped water.

http://www.redcross.org/article/0,1072,0_312_7211,00.html

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Dear Friends,

   I am indeed terribly uninformed about a good many things happening to the few
hunter gather tribes. All I know is that it is the duty of all of us who care to
ensure that the Indian State provides them total protection from any form of
intrusion from outside. Their lands must be unencroached and the might of the
Indian Navy should blast any outsider approaching from the sea and nothing
should be permitted from the land. If the tribals want to make contact, leave it
to them. Even here there is a real danger of infectious diseases and
exploitation.

   As for the blood sample collection, I am sure there are ethical and moral
issues involved which the competant scientists must have considered. If not they
should. Though to claim that such testing will save the tribes is, I think a
claim not made by Shri Lalji. If he has, then it would be interesting to know
how.

   The very simple perception I have is that the tribals, however so primitive
they be are Indian citizens like all of us and their right to property, security
and privacy simply must be assured. That the Sentinal Islanders are hostile,-
there must be some reason in the past experience of the tribe that makes them
so- is besides the point, they have all the right to their isolation guaranteed
by the Indian State just as I am assured that no one can force entry into my
small estate up here in the mountains. And, it is the Indian State that is
ensuring their rights and not their hostility,as without protection, how long
would a couple of hundred islanders keep off a boat load of armed poachers? This
makes me proud to say that I am an Indian.

   Lavkumar Khachar.

  __________________________________________________
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Launch of National Alliance for Disaster Risk Reduction

Policy Change. Disaster Risk Reduction. Climate Change

Media Briefing



LAUNCH

A multi-stakeholder National Alliance has formed to analyze national
policies and strategies in disaster risk reduction thereby mainstreaming
disaster risk reduction into development planning at national and local
levels.

This network of civil society organizations, National Alliance of
Disaster Risk Reduction (NADRR), is being launched on the 4 th of
November, 2007.

The  Alliance is open to concerned individuals and agencies interested
in positive synergies to integrate disaster risk reduction action.

EVENT INFO

The two-day workshop, in Delhi from 3-4 November 2007, will explore
critical issues in disaster reduction by discussing stakeholder concerns
in disaster management and climate change.



The workshop will be attended by national and international experts in
the disaster management field including Mr. Vinod Menon (Member – NDMA),
Mr. Parasuram (Director – Tata Institute for Social Sciences) and Scott
McCallum, Aidmatrix, USA .

Critical gaps and actions for the disaster risk reduction will be
outlined alongside testimonies of champions who have survived disasters
like Tsunami, earthquake and floods.


You are invited to attend a press briefing at the Habitat
Centre(Gulmohur Hall), New Delhi at 2:30 pm on Sunday, November 4th.



The press will be addressed by Mr. Vinod Menon, member of the National
Disaster Management Authority. Some other experts will also be present.
The agenda is attached.



MEDIA

Media persons are one of the key stakeholders in the Alliance for
Disaster Risk Reduction and are invited to participate in full strength
in the two day workshop. Frontline journalist voices will help shape the
discourse on disaster policy management and represent the people at the
grassroots. Journalists based out of Delhi maybe qualified for financial
support to attend the event (please contact by email if interested).



Media Coordinator:

Monisha Ashokan

Cel(Delhi): 9899268598

Email: moni.ashokan@...



Interviews with the following persons can be organized on 3/4 Nov upon
request:

Mr. Vinod Menon, Member, NDMA

'Champions' - Survivors of tsunami and other disasters

Manu Gupta, National Alliance of Risk Reduction spokesperson

Prof. Vinod Sharma, Indian Institute of Public Administration

Prof. Parasuraman, Director, TISS (Tata Institute of Social Sciences)




National Alliance for Disaster Risk Reduction Workshop, Delhi , Nov 3-4,
2007

India Habitat Centre, Gulmohur Hall



DAY 1


ACTIVITIES



9.00-9.30


Registration



10.00-10.30


Introduction



Session 1

11.00-13.00




REDUCING THE VULERABILITIES: Disaster resilient development How can
development work to create safer and better lives for the poor?



Coordinator

Nisheeth Kumar, Knowledge Links



Chairpersons

Tom Thomas, PRAXIS

Prof. Santosh Kumar, NIDM



Speakers

Bablu Ganguly, Timbaktu Collective, Anantpur, AP

Arvind Ojha, Urmul Trust, Bikaner , Rajasthan

V C Nadarajan, CCD, Tamilnadu



Community Leaders

Mr. N. Muthyalappa, Sarpanch, Mushtikovila Village , AP

Kasturi Chandrasekhar, Mahakalasam   Federation, Tamilnadu



Panelists

P.K.Mishra, Secretary, Min.of Agriculture & Coop,

earlier heading GSDMA, Gujarat and also worked as Additional Secretary
in NDMA

S. Sadananda, IDPMS

Naeem, CoAR , Afghanistan



13.00-14.00


Lunch



Session 2

14.00-15.300


Turning the Tide: After Tsunamis & Earthquakes



Coordinator

Mihir Bhatt, DMI, Gujarat



Chairperson

V. Vivekanandan, SIFFS



Speakers

Saravanan, DHAN Foundation

Sobina Lama, Lumanti , Nepal

Herman , Sri Lanka

Revathi, ToFarM



Community Leaders

G. Balakrishnan, DHAN

Chitra, Tsunami Fishing Village Association

Parimalam, TOFarM

Gyani Maharjan, Lumanti Nepal



Panelists

Amar, Action Aid

V.C. Nadarajan, CCD





DAY 2

Session 3

9.00 -10.30




THE ROLE OF COMMUNITY: Climate Change Adaptation and Asian floods



Coordinator

Anshu Sharma, SEEDS



Chairperson

Khurshid Alam , Bangladesh



Speakers

Chitra Lekha Chowdhary, Gram Vikas

Rabindranath, Rural Volunters Centre

Parag, SEEDS

Sivaji, Sanghamitra



Community Leaders

Mr. Banamalamalik, Gram Vikas

Mr. Jonki Pegu , Assam

Mr.Rug Singh, SEEDS

P.Malleswari, Sanghamitra

Mauroof Mohammed ( Maldives )

Ijazulla Abdulla ( Maldives )



Panelists



Eva Saroch, ISET

Prof Vinod Sharma , IIPA



10.30-11.00




Tea/Coffee break

Session 4

12.00-13.30




Partnerships for Scaling up



Coordinator

Prema Gopalan, SSP



Chairperson

V.Suresh, Govt of Tamilnadu


Panelists

Vibhu Nayar, Govt of Tamilnadu

Vivek Porwal

Anurag Batra, Media4exchange

Scott McCallum, Aidmatrix



13.30-14.30




Lunch

14.30-17.00

(Tea/Coffee included)



Media Briefing




Launch of the Alliance for Disaster Risk Reduction



Session Coordinator

Manu Gupta, SEEDS



Chairperson

Vinod Menon, NDMA



Panelists

Dr. S. Parsuraman, TISS

Sushil Kumar, UNDP

Vinod Sharma, IIPA

N.M. Prusty, Sphere

Manimelakalai, Fisherwomen Fedration

Kasturi Chandrasekhar, Mahakalasam

Bablu Ganguly, Timbaktu

Dear Friend,

   Greetings from TRINet.

Please find attached the November 2007 issue of the TRINet newsletter.

Last month, the Nobel Peace Prize 2007 was awarded to Former US Vice
President Al Gore and the Intergovernmental Panel for Climate Change
(IPCC) for ""for their efforts to build up and disseminate greater
knowledge about man-made climate change, and to lay the foundations for
the measures that are needed to counteract such change". Climate change
is going to affect people all over the earth in various ways but the
effect is likely to be more pronounced on vulnerable communities. One of
the many impacts of *Climate Change *is on *human health* and some
information is given about this aspect in this issue of the TRINet
Newsletter. The newsletter can also be downloaded from the TRINet
website by clicking on
http://www.trinet.in/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?cid=35&lid=419
<http://www.trinet.in>

   This newsletter also contains some useful reads related to Climate
Change and Health as well as some recent studies on the impact of the
2004 tsunami. A brief note on two recent meetings of import as well as a
collection of snippets from the media during October giving a bird's eye
view of tsunami rehab as well as some news about what is happening along
our coasts in India and an update from the TN government about their
tsunami recovery progress can be found in this newsletter.

   I look forward to hearing from you and receiving your feedback.



Sincerely,

Ahana



*Ahana Lakshmi*

*TRINet: Tsunami Rehab Information Network*

*www.trinet.in <http://www.trinet.in>*












--

http://pankaj-atcrossroads.blogspot.com

C/o Kalpavriksh
Apt. 5, Sri Dutta Krupa,
908 Deccan Gym
Pune 411004
India
Tel: 020 25654239
Mob: 09423009933
Email: psekhsaria@...

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No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1098 - Release Date: 29-Oct-07 9:28
AM



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Light of Andamans :: Issue 39 :: 15 Oct 2007
*
*
*Poaching is economic and not terrorist activity - PP Rajkumar*

By *Basudev Dass*

Reacting to the media, the Commander in Chief of the Andaman and Nicobar
Command of said that the increase in the poaching activities in the Andaman
Sea by the poachers was 'no security threat in the region'. "The poachers
whom we apprehend are from poorest of the poor section and unscrupulous
people hire them at a very cheap rate to work for them" said Air Marshal PP
Rajkumar.
"Our activities have also increased causing an increase in apprehension of
such poachers who enter in our water to exploit our marine resources," he
said.
"The poachers come to earn their livelihood and can be termed as economic.
We do not have any proof or evidence to identify them as terrorist or
extremists. We also do not have any past record nor any intelligence input
to the contrary" said the ANC Chief.
During a Press Conference on the 6th Anniversary of the Andaman and Nicobar
Command, the only unified command of the country, comprising of Army, Navy,
Air Force and the Coast Guard on October 8, 2007 the Chief said that the
Institution was fully prepared to meet any security threat in the region.
Replying to 'Light of Andamans' Rajkumar said that it was not possible to
have a check at the entry point in the Bay of Bengal to restrict poachers
coming from Myanmar and other South eastern Countries..
  "The poachers do not follow the international shipping lane but enter from
any where in their small mechanized or country boats through our vast
coastline. It is like we need mosquito-net to prevent the entry of
mosquitoes." He however, said that the ANC would be further strengthened in
near future and the plans were already under process in respective armed
forces' Headquarters.
The ANC Chief also advocated the need to make certain stringent laws to
check the poaching menace but admitted that it was in the domain of
legislature i.e. the Parliament in this case. "We are only executors and
duty bound-guards".
Admitting the importance of the Strait of Mallacca, Rajkumar said that since
it was not in the Indian Territory. It was everybody's concern and the
security of the area is not our responsibility. But it being an important
international shipping lane it was a joint responsibility of all South Asian
Countries to have a vigil on the same.
"We undertake coordinated patrolling with the countries that are associated
in using the area" he said and cited the recent example of such a joint
patrol that started and finished, from and in, Port Blair.
Earlier, Air Marshall, the Chief of Andaman and Nicobar Command inspected
the parade at the Naval Jetty premises and took salute. The parade was
organised to mark the 6 th anniversary of the raising day of Andaman and
Nicobar Command. 'Nowhere in the country  a commander would get the
opportunity to take salute of all the four components of the armed forces'
said the Air Marshall PP Rajkumar.
Addressing the jawans Rajkumar stressed on checking illegal insurgencies and
emphasised on training of the personnel. He appreciated the coordination
amongst all the four components in every section and called upon them to
ensure the welfare of their families. The ANC Chief also applauded the role
of Andaman Police and the civilian, 'who have always come ahead to help and
assist the command whenever needed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ACT Appeal: Indian Ocean Tsunamis and Earthquakes, REVISION 4 for CASA India
02 Nov 2007 15:39:00 GMT
Source: Action by Churches Together (ACT) - Switzerland
Elisabeth Gouel
Reuters and AlertNet are not responsible for the content of this article
or for any external internet sites. The views expressed are the author's
alone.


http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/fromthefield/222031/119401827342.htm
APPEAL
Asia Regional

Indian Ocean Tsunamis and Earthquakes - ASRE51

CASA, India (Revision 4)

CASA Target within ASRE51: US$26,663,778

Balance Requested: 0 US$

Geneva, 31 October 2007

Herewith we share with you fourth and final revision of CASA, India's
programme within the regional ACT International ASRE51 Tsunami appeal.
The total amount requested for CASA has decreased from US$ 34,221,291
(Revision 3) to US$ 26,663,778(a reduction of US$ 7,557,513).

The revision has been made because of the partial but substantial
disengagement of CASA from the Andaman and Nicobar islands. CASA has
played a significant role in projecting the aspirations and desires of
the local Tribal Council to the local and national governments.
Unfortunately, lengthy negotiations with the government for approval of
the structural design of houses and other infrastructure in the Car
Nicobar island, developed by CASA in close consultation with the local
Tribal Council of the island, failed.

Therefore, CASA felt forced to withdraw completely from the housing and
certain other infrastructure construction components of the planned
programme in Car Nicobar. Key changes are as follows:

a) House construction cancelled except for 11 prototype houses already
constructed in Car Nicobar.

b) Construction of 3 Disaster Shelters in the entire Andaman and Nicobar
Islands is now reduced to 1.

c) CASA had planned to undertake construction of 8 schools (Primary and
middle), including 7 in Car Nicobar, implemented by the Church of North
India (CNI). CASA had already undertaken construction of 3 schools with
pre-fabricated materials due to communication difficulties in the
island. However, the local administration put up a condition to CNI that
the remaining schools should be concrete construction (contrary to steel
structure housing promoted by the government). Therefore, CASA propose
to put up 4 concrete structures instead, which will include 1 Secondary
school and 3 Primary schools. Another school is being constructed in the
islands in collaboration with the Orthodox Church.

d) CASA are also proposing to undertake construction of 3 community
centres at Kamorta Island with the prefabricated materials mobilized
earlier for schools. This request was received from the local Tribal
Council of Kamorta Island.

Please note, that alongside this revision of CASA's ASRE51 programme,
the ACT Coordinating Office will also be issuing a separate tsunami
appeal for "housing for Dalits in South India" who have been excluded
from post-tsunami assistance. The Coordinating Office will be requesting
approval from some ASRE51 funders of CASA for transfer from ASRE51 to
this new tsunami-related appeal.

_________________________________________________________

annie joseph, pune
mr. tamta is talking about high-end tourism, that does not leave very many
footprints. good idea, but what about the domestic tourism. is he meaning to
snuff out that sector? it is for the govt and administration to put in
checks and balances, do and dont's whose implementation is strictly done, so
that the islands are not adversely affected. Domestic tourism with its low
spending and low profits accrued do serve a purpose in that the unorganisd
sector of employment among the people of the islands are benefited and they
have a means of livelihood.

On 11/1/07, zubair ahmed <zubairpbl@...> wrote:
>
>   The Light of Andamans :: Issue 39 :: 15 Oct 2007*
> *
> *SamirSpeak*
>
> *Tourism Alternatives: Food for Thought*
> *
> By Samir Acharya
>
> Congrats! Chodhury
> I admire and appreciate the bold and novel decision of our Principal Chief
> Conservator of Forests, Mr. S.S. Choudhury to give independent charge of
> some Forest Divisions to the senior and deserving officers of State Forest
> Cadre. I believe that six posts of Division Heads have been earmarked for
> SFC officers and appointments made.
> We have always been supportive of the cause of the SFC officers because
> they
> know the Island forests best. They have always served here and know these
> forests intimately. Proposal after proposal to even create Forest
> Sub-Divisions and putting the SFC officers (ACFs) as in-charge of the
> Sub-Divisions under DFOs were turned down earlier. This is a very positive
> step and will definitely improve the performance of the Forestry Sector.
> The SFC officers must now take on their new responsibility seriously and
> demonstrate their capability. They should know that no PCCF could be
> successful without their service and support.
> Three cheers for Mr. Chowdhury.
>
> Food for thought - DR Tamta
> Tourism, instead of bringing a boon to the Islands, has actually brought a
> curse on the Islanders. In recent times the accumulated anger of the
> Islanders and even the Tour Operators have been vented a number of times
> in
> the local media. Yes, I am talking about the curse of LTC tourists, whose
> only contribution to the Islands is bringing scarcity of water,
> inter-island
> boat tickets, Island-mainland ship tickets and even air-tickets for the
> localities. What makes it worse and intolerable is that it is totally
> state-funded. It is a creature of the bureaucracy-business nexus, at its
> worst. One hopes that the local voices are heard in the corridors of power
> in Delhi.
> The Establishment frequently blames the Activists and NGOs for criticizing
> and failing to offer an alternative. Well, let me try to do this.
> Since tourism industry in the Islands must follow the limitations imposed
> by
> our carrying capacity, we must limit the volume. Since revenue earning
> needs
> drastic improvement, we need high value. In other words we need a
> relatively
> small number of tourists to spend a relatively high amount of money. Here
> is
> an example.
> Sport fishing is very popular and is gaining more and more popularity in
> the
> affluent countries. It not only offers an exotic locale and exposure to
> exotic species, but also throws in some vigorous outdoor activities with a
> flavour of adventure thrown in. There are only two operators in the
> Islands
> now, soon to be three, I gather. The operators bring in groups, mostly
> from Europe now, for sport fishing in Andaman waters.
> The duration of a tour is six days and a tourist pays 1500 Euros for a
> trip.
> So, a tourist pays 250 Euros (Rs. 13,710/-@ 55/-per Euro) per day. Not a
> bad earning per capita at all. All the operator needs is a seaworthy boat,
> say between 22 to 36 feet fitted with an engine between 150 to 400 HP, so
> that the boat can attain a speed of 20 to 25 knots. The boat can carry
> between 6 to 10 tourists at a time for longer voyages. Most sport-fishers
> bring with them their own fishing gear. But they should be able to hire it
> locally. They catch groupers, snappers and even a tuna if they are lucky.
> Some fishers will have the fish for dinner. If they catch many, they
> sometimes just take a photograph and then release the fish. Such
> activities
> leave very small footprints and are, therefore, the most preferable model
> of
> tourism.
> Since this model of tourism is absolutely seasonal, an operator with a
> single boat can cater to, perhaps 150 to 250 tourists, easily, earning
> between 37,000 to 50,000 Euros (20 Lakhs to 27 lakh rupees) per year,
> given
> the local constraints.
> Ideally, there could be four zones in Andamans; North, Middle, South
> Andamans and Ritchie's Archipelago. Each zone can comfortably support
> 3--4 operators to begin with, catering to 1800 to 3000 tourists per year,
> and earning a revenue of three to four crores per year, assuming each
> operator operates only one boat. Actually, each operator should have 4-6
> boats in operation. That way, the turn over would be in excess of 20
> crores.
> What needs to be done to encourage this model?
> a) Since the foreigners are not permitted any night halts in most places,
> the groups needs to come back everyday from the fishing spot and go back
> again the next day. If certain convenient locations are earmarked as
> camping
> sites for sport fishers, it will save them a lot of time and travel and
> make
> the package more attractive.
> b) It will help some local entrepreneurs to provide camp/tent
> accommodation, sanitary facilities and victualling. Some local employment
> will be generated and the community hosting/near hosting in the sports
> fishers will stand to gain.
> c) A local entrepreneur could set up a small facility for re-fuelling the
> boats at the required spots to save the operators the burden of carrying
> fuel for the return sailing too.
> d) We need clear and user-friendly rules for registration of operators and
> boats. Now there seems to be a lot of confusion.
> e) Since sport-fishing like diving is an eco-tourism activity, the
> operators
> can tie-up with the Forest Department to identify camping sites. The Lt.
> Governor could be approached for permission for this class of tourists to
> night-halt at designated campsites.
> f) The Tourism Department could approach our Polytechnic for a module of
> training in sport fishing venture operator for local interested youth.
> g) With time, when tourist flow increases, a shop selling fishing gear at
> the Port Blair and a few near the jetties/camp sites selling live baits
> would be viable.
> h) Soon, the campsites will start attracting bird and butterfly
> watchers also.
> I shall look forward to the day when this become a reality. Till then, LTC
> tourism Murdabad must remain our slogan.
> *
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

annie joseph, pune
lavkumar khachar, is quite uninformed, to my mind. The scientists would be
involved in an endeavour, that is natural to a spirit of scientific inquiry
and temper, which is unfortunately being less and less recognized as
something so basic. its not surprising his reaction; becos today its only
the catchwords - development, global village, gdp, globalization among many
others, which make people sit up. Unfortunately for many people,
environment-related disasters, such as this and many others are going to
definitely make us all sit up, like it or not.

On 10/31/07, LAVKUMAR KHACHAR <lavkumarkhachar@...> wrote:
>
>   Dear Friends,
>
> Can there be anything more vicious than a group of scientists wanting to
> examine blood of tribes to "save them from extinction"? Had they been
> suffering from some mysterious ailments this might have been order, but
> this? It is a cruel joke.
>
> The question is, what can be done other than expressing our anger on the
> 'net?
>
> Yours,
>
> Lavkumar Khachar.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Light of Andamans :: Issue 40 :: 29 Oct 2007*
*
*Search for new tourism equation*

By Staff Reporter

Equations, a Bangalore based NGO took up the task of conducting a research
on 'environmentally and sustainable tourism in the islands' which could
otherwise be undertaken by the Tourism Directorate of the A&N
Administration.
In it efforts, the NGO which is working here for one and half year, had
involved the students acknowledging them to be the future citizens with a
vision. It organised a seminar and debate competition amongst the students
as a part of the research.
"If you involve students they would consult their parents and teachers in
addition to libraries and also analyse their own intellectual prowess to
come to certain conclusion on any give subject", said Liyakat Ali, the
Bangalore based project coordinator to 'The Light of Andamans'. This will
help evolving opinions of a cross section of the people said Ali
Angelina Saint Romen of JNRM and Jita George of Govt Polytechnic were true
examples of visionary citizens when they presented their points in chaste
English. They vociferously argued in favour of their themes during a
question answer session with the judges and fellow participants. And
naturally they were selected best two presenters in college group while Ms.
Jyotirmoy Biswas of Havelock Sr. Sec. School was adjudged the best at school
level. Farheen Aslam of Ummat Public School and Lakshmi Das of Manglutan
School were joint winners for the second position.
In all 138 students from 36 schools and five colleges had participated in
the competitions
"The result of the research will be submitted to appropriate forums for
their reference and perusal for taking further steps whatever they would
deem fit", said Liyakat Ali.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hallo once again,
what i would like to say in brief is that the consent
of the hunter gatherer communities doesent seem to
have been taken . it is a decision made by scientists
who claim that their research is beneficial . i find
it typically selfish and vicious the assertion that
research in this direction should be allowed if  it
helps combat some disease (read created by the
destructive-toxic relation of civilisation to nature
as such). there are different questions that come up
because of this practice. all life threatening
technology including genetic engineering has been
justified by allusions to some benefits that humanity
will get. so the question is , can this be a
justification of such science and technolgy? secondly
the attitude that this research is beneficial is a
view of scientists who obviously dont respect the way
of living of hunter gatherer communties and for whom
for eg the Jarawa people are an object. can we who are
part of this internet group to do all that is possible
to help the continued survival of for eg Jarawa people
to live as they have lived for thousands of years
accept this colonialist scientific attitude?
i for one would argue for non intervention in the
lives of the orginal inhabitants of Andaman Islands by
scientific communties whose agendas have nothing to do
with ( or often detrimental ) the continued existence
of the Jarawa people and others as hunter gatherer
communties.
shankar
--- Devi Prasad K V <devikv@...> schrieb:

> Since this debate has gone on for some time, I
> venture to make a few points:
> I dont think ANYTHING the ASI does or can do is
> likely to benefit the tribals;  but if the cause of
> science and expanding knowledge base is aided by
> some effort of ASI then it should be supported
> As to informed consent, I am afraid the term
> "consent" is at the best of times ill-defined;  what
> may be assumed to be a consent by some may be a
> contested act by others! When we deal with
> individuals who do not share our paradigm of
> existence, it is nearly impossible to define
> "ethical" rules consistently.  So long as negative
> effects are not present or extremely improbable
> reference to strait jackets serve no useful purpose.
> As to "using" the tribals - we "use" our fellow men
> (who are marginalised and poor) and their resources
> day in and day out.  It would be impossible to
> create a utopia where exploitation is absent.  If
> efforts to learn do not cause harm then that should
> be generally sufficient to permit an activity.
> Precautionary principles only demands abundant
> caution, not inaction.  Now assume there is a gene
> in the tribes that is resistant to some disease X,
> to which "we" are susceptible the its discovery
> would only benefit us.  THen, should this preclude
> such information being gathered?  I think not.
> The questions for us to answer - is "our" effort
> likely to increase threat to their survival?  is
> "our" effort is something that would be so odious
> that no one amongst "us" would allow it on any one
> of "us" if we knew what is to be done?
>
> Emotions are unavoidable, but science and emotions
> are rarely good bed fellows.
>
> K V Devi Prasad
> Salim Ali School of Ecology
> Pondicherry University
> Pondicherry 605 014 INDIA
> devi@...
> devikv@...
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Madhusree Mukerjee <lopchu@...>
> To: andamanicobar@...
> Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 4:00:52 PM
> Subject: [andamanicobar] Re:Blood Test of Endangered
> Populations!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>             I should clarify my stand. My objection
> was to the claim that an immortal cell line in any
> way rescues a tribe.
>
>
>
> I am not in principle opposed to genetic testing.
> There have been tests, by various groups, that
> establish the Andamanese as the remnants of the
> first humans in Asia, dating back 50,000 years or
> more. Such tests have a political value, in that
> they establish the uniqueness of the Andamanese and
> the primacy of their rights in the region.
>
>
>
> There are problems with how the testing is actually
> done. International guidelines call for acquiring
> informed consent from the person who is being
> tested. In practice it is hard to see how such
> consent can be obtained, and researchers usually
> resort to subterfuge. There should also be an
> understanding of why the testing is being done. To
> my mind, if the testing benefits only us, the larger
> society, and brings no benefits to the person being
> tested, it is unconscionable. It is a way of using
> another person.
>
>
>
> Madhusree
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
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=== message truncated ===



        __________________________________ Ihr erstes Fernweh? Wo gibt es den
schönsten Strand? www.yahoo.de/clever

-  Dear friends
First let me thank Madhusree and Viswajith pandya and also other
friends for debating an issue of significance otherwise would have
been ignored.

   Scientists have their own expectations. They see science in man
but quite often neglect the very subjects. It is the dilemma, so the
debates on blood. Thanks to the association to create a platform. It
is not a matter to think that who is right and who is wrong? After
all it is the position to which the scholars are positioned
themselves. . Blood, cheeng to the Jarawas and the Onges, is as
precious to them and so as the case with biological scientists.  The
owners have their rights bestowed. It is precious to them as it
belongs to them. Biologists add precious value to the blood of the
Andaman tribes, due to its evolutionary significance. Sometimes,
they believe everything is legitimized within the frame of science.
It is not always a correct position when it directly deals human
subjects. Of course, any living subjects should have such
protection. Demand for the blood of autochthonous population cannot
be seen just as a matter of science alone. It touches the domain of
humanity and thus it becomes a debate of science vs humanity. Taking
a position in favor of science or humanity doesn't yield much. The
concerns of both the parties have to be understood rationally. So
what Madhmita and Viswajith have expressed cannot be ignored and the
demand of Lalji has to be appreciated since he stands for "science"
or vice versa. The serious fun in this episode is the total
ignorance of tribes on the issues surrounded to their blood. They do
not know why the outsiders are interested in getting their blood. It
is not easy to teach cell lines and its importance to them. It is
our/ outsider's science and not theirs. Blood is for us to expand
our knowledge.   Immortalizing the Andaman tribes through science is
the offer from Lalji cannot be appreciated by any angle of humanity
but is very much appreciated within the fantasy of science. But one
cannot discard the possibilities of biological understanding of
these tribes,Hence, I note, it is the matter of science vs humanity
and is a serious matter to be debated. Let me add, Viswajith has
rightly pointed out about the presence of the DNA laboratory of the
Anthropological survey of India at Portblair can do the needful
biological studies keeping all tribal rights and protocols of
biological resources protected, as it is clearly stated by the
secretary, Ministry of culture recently during the inauguration of
the DNA laboratory that the new advanced DNA Lab will provide good
diagnostic facility besides prevention of genetic diseases and also
pave the way for research on human evolution.




-- In andamanicobar@..., Vishvajit Pandya
<pandyav@...> wrote:
>
> It is not a matter of believing that "Science" is worthless or
worthy. It is the pretension of Scientific organizations that try to
represent themselves as the preservers and conservators of the
Andamanese tribe. The issue is of priority and what has been done
and what needs to be done. Our blind belief in progress and
modernization is often justified by faith in Science and technology
will resolve and correct the future course of human beings. But it
is not always the case. Our present global concern with environment
is a classic case of this.
>   Samples of various sorts were collected during the Expert
Committee visiting the Jarawa territory. Scientists have already
collected sample (in questionable manner) and published speculations
about how and from where the Andaman Islanders came from and when.
Never has the linguistic and material cultural data taken into
consideration to create the past.
>   Neither have the so called `scientists' agreed or projected and
insisted upon what the future should be based on the knowing of the
present situation. See for details the Expert committee report and
also Economic and Political weekly ( See September 14-20 2002 Vol
XXXVII pp 3830-  ). I have raised the issue of such `Absentee
experts" in Light of Andamans also.
>   I am not trying to polarize the group but requesting the
concerned individuals to galvanize and create an opinion and
pressure on approaching the Andaman Islanders as a issue of insuring
they survive with dignity and rights, not as a potential test tube
content or an exotic archival description. It is important to
question and understand what is happening now and how to control the
damage.
>   Let us think differently and integrate rather then polarize and
think about the devisions of thought.
>   Vishvajit Pandya
>
>
> Devi Prasad K V <devikv@...> wrote:          Since this debate has
gone on for some time, I venture to make a few points:
> I dont think ANYTHING the ASI does or can do is likely to benefit
the tribals; but if the cause of science and expanding knowledge
base is aided by some effort of ASI then it should be supported
> As to informed consent, I am afraid the term "consent" is at the
best of times ill-defined; what may be assumed to be a consent by
some may be a contested act by others! When we deal with individuals
who do not share our paradigm of existence, it is nearly impossible
to define "ethical" rules consistently. So long as negative effects
are not present or extremely improbable reference to strait jackets
serve no useful purpose.
> As to "using" the tribals - we "use" our fellow men (who are
marginalised and poor) and their resources day in and day out. It
would be impossible to create a utopia where exploitation is absent.
If efforts to learn do not cause harm then that should be generally
sufficient to permit an activity. Precautionary principles only
demands abundant caution, not inaction. Now assume there is a gene
in the tribes that is resistant to some disease X, to which "we" are
susceptible the its discovery would only benefit us. THen, should
this preclude such information being gathered? I think not.
> The questions for us to answer - is "our" effort likely to
increase threat to their survival? is "our" effort is something that
would be so odious that no one amongst "us" would allow it on any
one of "us" if we knew what is to be done?
>
> Emotions are unavoidable, but science and emotions are rarely good
bed fellows.
>
> K V Devi Prasad
> Salim Ali School of Ecology
> Pondicherry University
> Pondicherry 605 014 INDIA
> devi@...
> devikv@...
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Madhusree Mukerjee <lopchu@...>
> To: andamanicobar@...
> Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 4:00:52 PM
> Subject: [andamanicobar] Re:Blood Test of Endangered Populations!
>
> I should clarify my stand. My objection was to the claim that an
immortal cell line in any way rescues a tribe.
>
> I am not in principle opposed to genetic testing. There have been
tests, by various groups, that establish the Andamanese as the
remnants of the first humans in Asia, dating back 50,000 years or
more. Such tests have a political value, in that they establish the
uniqueness of the Andamanese and the primacy of their rights in the
region.
>
> There are problems with how the testing is actually done.
International guidelines call for acquiring informed consent from
the person who is being tested. In practice it is hard to see how
such consent can be obtained, and researchers usually resort to
subterfuge. There should also be an understanding of why the testing
is being done. To my mind, if the testing benefits only us, the
larger society, and brings no benefits to the person being tested,
it is unconscionable. It is a way of using another person.
>
> Madhusree
>
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>

The Light of Andamans :: Issue 40 :: 29 Oct 2007*
*
*Port Blair ASI gets auditorium & DNA lab*

By Staff Reporter

The DNA laboratory of the Anthropological Survey of India, Port Blair will
contribute in the studies towards prevention of genetic diseases besides
research work of the Anthropological aspect in Andaman and Nicobar Islands,
said Badal Kumar Das, Secretary (Culture) to Govt. of India, while
inaugurating the DNA Lab and the Auditorium in the ASI Complex near Port
Blair Telephone Exchange on October 22, 2007.
"The first outstation research centre is now a complete organisation with
regard to anthropological survey with the establishment of the DNA Lab and
the auditorium" continued Das. The Institution earlier known as 'Junglee
Office' in Port Blair is now a hub of 'celebration of diversity' and a place
that would 'contribute towards basic research of human beings' and 'deal
with both cultural and biological aspect of the islanders' said Badal Kumar
Das.
Delivering on the occasion Dr. VR Rao, Director ASI Kolkata said that
creation of facilities was one aspect but sustaining them and utilising the
same in a best way 'is a challenge'.
Dr. P Vijayachari, Director, Regional Council of Medical Research (ICMR)
detailed the importance of DNA studies in disease oriented research citing
examples of tuberculosis, leptospyrosis etc. and believed that the Lab will
help in finding out solutions for vexed public health problems of the
islands in collaboration with the Directorate of Health services of the A&N
Administration.
Dr. N Sadasivan, Director of Health Services also spoke on the occasion as
presiding officer during the function while A. Justin, the Superintending
Anthropologist, Port Blair ASI proposed vote of thanks.


*
*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Light of Andamans :: Issue 39 :: 15 Oct 2007*
*
*SamirSpeak*

*Tourism Alternatives: Food for Thought*
*
By Samir Acharya

Congrats! Chodhury
  I admire and appreciate the bold and novel decision of our Principal Chief
Conservator of Forests, Mr. S.S. Choudhury to give independent charge of
some Forest Divisions to the senior and deserving officers of State Forest
Cadre.   I believe that six posts of Division Heads have been earmarked for
SFC officers and appointments made.
We have always been supportive of the cause of the SFC officers because they
know the Island forests best.  They have always served here and know these
forests intimately.  Proposal after proposal to even create Forest
Sub-Divisions and putting the SFC officers (ACFs) as in-charge of the
Sub-Divisions under DFOs were turned down earlier. This is a very positive
step and will definitely improve the performance of the Forestry Sector.
The SFC officers must now take on their new responsibility seriously and
demonstrate their capability. They should know that no PCCF could be
successful without their service and support.
Three cheers for Mr. Chowdhury.

  Food for thought - DR Tamta
Tourism, instead of bringing a boon to the Islands, has actually brought a
curse on the Islanders.  In recent times the accumulated anger of the
Islanders and even the Tour Operators have been vented a number of times in
the local media. Yes, I am talking about the curse of LTC tourists, whose
only contribution to the Islands is bringing scarcity of water, inter-island
boat tickets, Island-mainland ship tickets and even air-tickets for the
localities. What makes it worse and intolerable is that it is totally
state-funded.  It is a creature of the bureaucracy-business nexus, at its
worst. One hopes that the local voices are heard in the corridors of power
in Delhi.
The Establishment frequently blames the Activists and NGOs for criticizing
and failing to offer an alternative. Well, let me try to do this.
Since tourism industry in the Islands must follow the limitations imposed by
our carrying capacity, we must limit the volume. Since revenue earning needs
drastic improvement, we need high value. In other words we need a relatively
small number of tourists to spend a relatively high amount of money. Here is
an example.
Sport fishing is very popular and is gaining more and more popularity in the
affluent countries.  It not only offers an exotic locale and exposure to
exotic species, but also throws in some vigorous outdoor activities with a
flavour of adventure thrown in. There are only two operators in the Islands
now, soon to be three, I gather.   The operators bring in groups, mostly
from Europe now, for sport fishing in Andaman waters.
The duration of a tour is six days and a tourist pays 1500 Euros for a trip.
  So, a tourist pays 250 Euros (Rs. 13,710/-@ 55/-per Euro) per day.   Not a
bad earning per capita at all.  All the operator needs is a seaworthy boat,
say between 22 to 36 feet fitted with an engine between 150 to 400 HP, so
that the boat can attain a speed of 20 to 25 knots. The boat can carry
between 6 to 10 tourists at a time for longer voyages.  Most sport-fishers
bring with them their own fishing gear. But they should be able to hire it
locally.  They catch groupers, snappers and even a tuna if they are lucky.
  Some fishers will have the fish for dinner. If they catch many, they
sometimes just take a photograph and then release the fish.  Such activities
leave very small footprints and are, therefore, the most preferable model of
tourism.
  Since this model of tourism is absolutely seasonal, an operator with a
single boat can cater to, perhaps 150 to 250 tourists, easily, earning
between 37,000 to 50,000 Euros (20 Lakhs to 27 lakh rupees) per year, given
the local constraints.
Ideally, there could be four zones in Andamans; North, Middle, South
Andamans and Ritchie's Archipelago.    Each zone can comfortably support
3--4 operators to begin with, catering to 1800 to 3000 tourists per year,
and earning a revenue of three to four  crores per year, assuming each
operator operates only one boat. Actually, each operator should have 4-6
boats in operation.  That way, the turn over would be in excess of 20
crores.
What needs to be done to encourage this model?
  a) Since the foreigners are not permitted any night halts in most places,
the groups needs to come back everyday from the fishing spot and go back
again the next day. If certain convenient locations are earmarked as camping
sites for sport fishers, it will save them a lot of time and travel and make
the package more attractive.
b)  It will help some local entrepreneurs to provide camp/tent
accommodation, sanitary facilities and victualling.  Some local employment
will be generated and the community hosting/near hosting in the sports
fishers will stand to gain.
c) A local entrepreneur could set up a small facility for re-fuelling the
boats at the required spots to save the operators the burden of carrying
fuel for the return sailing too.
d) We need clear and user-friendly rules for registration of operators and
boats.  Now there seems to be a lot of confusion.
e) Since sport-fishing like diving is an eco-tourism activity, the operators
can tie-up with the Forest Department to identify camping sites.  The Lt.
Governor could be approached for permission for this class of tourists to
night-halt at designated campsites.
f) The Tourism Department could approach our Polytechnic for a module of
training in sport fishing venture operator for local interested youth.
g) With time, when tourist flow increases, a shop selling fishing gear at
the Port Blair and a few near the jetties/camp sites selling live baits
would be viable.
h)      Soon, the campsites will start attracting bird and butterfly
watchers also.
I shall look forward to the day when this become a reality.  Till then, LTC
tourism Murdabad must remain our slogan.
*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Press Release, Govt. of India, Nov. 1, 2007

MORE MARINE PROTECTED AREAS WITH WELL-DEVELOPED MANAGEMENT TO BE SET UP
FOR MARINE SPECIES CONSERVATION

MORE INSTITUTE FOR COLLABORATIVE RESEARCH ON VARIOUS ASPECTS OF MARINE
FAUNA AND FLORA
	 18:2 IST
India has around 8,000 kms of coastline with two island systems, viz,
the Andaman & Nicobar and Lakshadweep, and 2,305,143 Sq. Kms of
Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). The marine and coastal environment of
India harbours a host of resident and migratory wildlife. The important
species found in the Indian waters include, Dugongs, Whales, Dolphins,
Olive Ridley Turtles, a variety of fishes including the Whale Sharks &
other sharks, Giant Groupers, Sea cucumbers, horseshoe crabs, sea
shells, soft & hard corals, etc. At present there are 5 designated
Marine Protected Areas in the country, viz, Gulf of Mannar National
Park, Tamil Nadu, Gulf of Kutch Marine National Park & Gulf of Kutch
Marine Sanctuary, Gujarat, Mahatma Gandhi Marine National Park, Andaman
& Nicobar Islands and Gahirmatha Sanctuary, Orissa.

Many of the marine species are facing grave threat due to habitat
destruction, over exploitation, commercial fishing, etc. One of the
major threats is also due to the by-catches during commercial fishing
operations, which causes depletion of marine resources. In order to
reduce the extent of by-catches during such commercial fishing, it would
require improvement in advanced technology, viz, Turtle Exclusion Devise
(TED), education & awareness amongst the fishermen folks. However, the
information on the exact population status, biology and behavior etc of
many of the marine species is not adequately known. India is a signatory
to the Convention on Migratory Species (CMS), the International Whaling
Commission (IWC) and has the responsibility to develop appropriate
conservation, research and management action plans for its marine
bio-diversity. In the recent past, India has also signed a Memorandum of
Understanding with the CMS for Conservation of Marine Turtles and their
habitat through out their range.

Considering the vast marine bio-diversity in the country vs. only five
marine Protected Areas, at present, there is a greater need to have more
marine Protected Areas in the country with well-developed management
plans. Since, most of the marine species are migratory and not confined
to one area only, management plans have to be based on large areas,
rather than confining them to a Protected Area. Updated research on
marine bio-diversity is the need of the day for better conservation of
marine species. Though, the Wildlife Institute of India’s research team
had conducted a few studies on the terrestrial Islands and under-water
coral reef and surveyed the marine animal diversity in the Gulf of
Mannar region to update their status from the existing base line
information created by the Integrated Costal and Marine Area Management
(ICMAM) project of Department of Ocean Development and the Zoological
Survey of India, a lot more needs to be done in this aspect.

It is felt that it would not be pragmatic to undertake studies of such
dimensions by a single institute like the Wildlife Institute of India.
It is proposed to involve organizations like Central Marine Fisheries
Research Institute (CMFRI), Zoological Survey of India (ZSI), National
Institute of Oceanography, and other related institutes and
Universities, for a collaborative research on various aspects of marine
fauna and flora and later to associate the concerned State Governments
for preparation of special management plans for better conservation of
the marine bio-diversity.

The National Board of Wildlife was informed today about this
conservation aspect.

KP:PM

I agree with you fully on the Andamanese cell test controversy. Any
hi-tech attempt to know the Andamanese primitive human community may
not give a better life to the Andamanese, nor can it be helpful any
way towards shaping their lives in line with the changing lyfestyles
of the modern communities living in A&N. I hope the scientific
community will make all efforts to SAVE the indegenous cultural
identity of the Andamanese by avoiding any blood sample test on them.
This is just my personal opinion.

Dr. Santosh
Conservation Himalayas
Chandigarh, India
--- Sena <sena@...> wrote:

> to understand a person different from your way-  you have to live
> with
> him/her ...
> in order to understand what love is - you have to love...
>
> We are spiritual beings - even the ones who think they are not
> spiritual.
> In the face of death they will know :-)
>
> You can sample as much blood as you want - you will not understand
> anything.
>
> Live with these tribes and love all of them on a daily basis - then
> you
> might have a chance to understand who they are.
>
> All this so called scientific approach is just ridiculous.
>
> This money could be used much more wisely to help the ones who want
> "scientific" help.
> Leave the ones who do not want your "help' alone.
> Just stay out of it.
>
> Your couriosity will kill them.
> Once you sample their blood you will find a way to infect them,make
> them
> sick and wipe them out.
>
> LEARN through Love
> Respect other ways of life
>
> and by the way: you will never become an artist by sampling my
> blood :-)
>
> so just fugetaboutit
> Sena
>
> office:
> 255 West 36th Street Suite 1005
> New York NY 10018
> phone 212 947 7858
>
> http://www.myspace.com/sena_productions
>
> http://www.myspace.com/senamusic
> http://www.myspace.com/sena_collection
> www.sena-poet.com
> www.sena-music.com
> www.sena-collection.com
>
>
> On Thu, November 1, 2007 4:11 am, Pankaj Andaman wrote:
> > I don't think it is just a matter of taking a few samples of
> blood, that
> > this will not kill anybody, that the scientific outcomes are
> useful and
> > exciting and therefore there should be no problem.
> > The matter is a complex one and there have been and continue to
> be a
> > number of debates on this.
> > There are, for instance a number of detailed guidelines
> (international
> > and national) on how this kind of research should be carried out
> and if
> > we look at these we will get a sense of the complexities.
> >
> > I do have a number of these guidelines and I am posting here a
> section
> > of the guidelines put together in the year 2000 (or about that
> time) by
> > the Govt. of India's Department of Biotechnology (DBT).
> > Those who might be interested in receiving the entire set of the
> DBT
> > guidelines or the other ones, please write to me and I will send
> > whatever I have on my computer.
> >
> > The guidelines is a detailed document with the following main
> heads. I
> > am also posting below that the full details of the section under
> > consent. It is important to find out that these and all related
> issues
> > have been dealt with by any researcher including Dr. Lalji Singh
> > pankaj
> >
> > ETHICAL POLICIES ON THE HUMAN GENOME, GENETIC RESEARCH AND
> SERVICES. DBT
> >
> >
> > PREAMBLE
> > MEMBERSHIP OF THE NATIONAL BIOETHICS COMMITTEE
> > INTRODUCTION
> >
> >
> > POLICIES
> > Integrity, Respect and Beneficence
> > Justice
> > Consent
> >
> > Gene Therapy & Human Cloning
> > Genetic Testing and Counselling
> > Genetic Privacy and Discrimination
> > Intellectual Property Rights and Benefit Sharing
> >
> >
> > DNA and Cell-line Banking
> > International Collaboration
> > IMPLEMENTATION OF ETHICAL POLICIES
> > Categories of Human Biological Materials
> >
> > CONSENT
> > Consent
> >
> > Before recruitment of any individual/group in human genome and
> genetic
> > research, consent of the participants must be obtained.
> >
> > The ethical and legal requirements of consent have two aspects:
> the
> > provision of information and the capacity to make a voluntary
> choice. So
> > as to conform with ethical and legal requirements, obtaining
> consent
> > should involve :
> >
> > (a) provision to participants, at their level of comprehension
> and in a
> > language or method understandable to them, of information about
> the
> > purpose, methods, demands, risks, inconveniences, discomforts,
> and
> > possible outcomes of the research; and
> >
> > (b) the exercise of a voluntary choice to participate.
> >
> > Where a participant lacks competence to consent, a person with
> lawful
> > authority to decide for that participant must be provided with
> that
> > information and exercise that choice.
> >
> > It is, therefore, recommended that :
> >
> > (i) A researcher must explain the purpose of the research, the
> > foreseeable risks and benefits of participation and alternative
> > procedures, if any.
> >
> > (ii) Consent obtained from each participant, and the
> participating group
> > (where applicable), must be documented.
> >
> > (iii) Consent is valid only for the research for which it is
> given by
> > the participant (primary use). If the information or samples for
> primary
> > use are to be used for other purposes or for sharing with other
> > investigators (secondary use), clear mention of such secondary
> uses must
> > be made during the process of obtaining informed consent. New
> consent
> > must be taken for any use for which consent was not explicitly
> obtained.
> > However this will not be required if the sample is used as an
> > "Unidentified" or "Unlinked" sample.
> >
> > (iv) Consent from a potential participant who is a minor or is so
> > handicapped that she/he is incapable of providing informed
> consent
> > (e.g., persons who are legally incompetent, physically or
> mentally
> > challenged) may be taken from a close biological relative, such
> as
> > parents, sibling, or from a legally authorized representative.
> For a
> > mentally ill person, a psychiatrist should certify his/her
> capability of
> > providing voluntary informed consent.
> >
> > (v) If information pertaining to a deceased individual is
> required, this
> > information may be obtained from a close biological relative or
> from a
> > legally authorized representative.
> >
> > (vi) Data pertinent to research may be collected on relatives of
> a
> > participant, provided that no information revealing the identity
> of the
> > relative is collected.
> >
> >
> > 1. (vii) When research pertains to a specific community (e.g., an
> ethnic
> > group, an organization of patients), it is desirable to obtain
> group
> > consent before obtaining individual consent. Group consent must
> also be
> > documented.
> >
> > (viii) Consent of parents must be taken for collection and use of
> > biological material from a dead foetus for the purpose of
> research.
> >
> > (ix) For research based on information in databases or samples in
> > repositories,
> >
> > (a) no consent of the donor/ participant will be required if the
> > information/ samples are unidentified,
> >
> > (b) individual informed consent of the donor/ participant will be
> > required if the information/ samples are identified,
> >
> > (c) individual informed consent of the donor/ participant will be
> > required if the information/ samples are coded, unless the
> owner(s) of
> > the database or repository and the research investigator mutually
> agree
> > not to provide/ receive the research findings based on the
> information/
> > samples.
> >
> > (x) For research based on human biological materials collected
> during
> > and as part of a clinical procedure or medical care, an informed
> consent
> > for research use of the samples should be obtained separately
> from that
> > obtained for the clinical procedure.
> >
> > (xi) A person may refuse to participate in a research project or
> > withdraw from a research project without giving any reason or
> > justification.
> >
> > ---------------------------
> >
> > Lima Rosalind wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I agree with Rauf too. I too would be delighted if any one can
> throw
> >> some
> >> light on the antecedents of this tribe. ASI has been trying for
> years to
> >> get
> >> this underway and Iam glad its finally in place.
> >>
> >> Lima Rosalind
> >>
> >> On 11/1/07, zubair ahmed <zubairpbl@gmail. com
> >> <mailto:zubairpbl%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>  >
> >>  > I agree with Mr Rauf on this one. Who said that tribes will
> be killed
> >> to
> >>  > extract blood sample from them? It is going to open a new
> world of
> >>  > scientific and anthropological study. Can anyone shed light
> on how
> >> the DNA
> >>  > study will make the tribals extinct. Zubair
> >>  >
> >>  > On 11/1/07, Rauf Ali <raufie05@yahoo. co.in
> >> <mailto:raufie05%40yahoo.co.in> <raufie05%40yahoo. co.in>>
> >>  > wrote:
> >>  > >
> >>  > > Lets be clear about one thing. Andaman tribals are
> >>  > > going extinct, not because ASI has set up a lab to
> >>  > > study their DNA, but because of the refusal of the A &
> >>  > > N Administration to follow their own guidelines.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > A little DNA sampling from some museum is not going to
> >>  > > make any difference of the survival or otherwise, of
> >>  > > these tribals. And I, for one, would be fascinated by
> >>  > > any light shed on where these people originated from.
> >>  > > ASI is to be commended and not slandered for making
> >>  > > this effort.
> >>  > >
> >>  > > In despair,
> >>  > > Rauf Ali
> >>  > >
> >>  > > PS You can start flaming me now.
> >>  > >
> >>  > >
> >>  > > --- shankar narayanan <shankar_blume@ yahoo.de
> >> <mailto:shankar_blume%40yahoo.de> <shankar_blume% 40yahoo.de>
> <shankar_
> >> blume%40yahoo. de>>
> >>  > > wrote:
> >>  > >
> >>  > > > hallo madhushree and others,
> >>  > > > i was just looking through the mails and i was
> >>  > > > furious to read that a advanced DNA lab has been
> >>  > > > established by ASI . and then that CCMB is looking
> >>  > > > for
> >>  > > > blood samples of the hunter gatherer tribes of
> >>  > > > Andaman
> >>  > > > to save the genetic lineage of these adivasi
> >>  > > > communities even if they are destroyed! really good
> >>  > > > to
> >>  > > > read your mail and those of others who also feel
> >>  > > > indignant about all this politics of hightech
> >>  > > > science.
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > all this once again brings up the question, to
> >>  > > > defend
> >>  > > > the remaining hunter gatherer communities and to
> >>  > > > stop
> >>  > > > genocide and destruction globally dont we have to
> >>  > > > confront civilisation as such with all its toxic
> >>  > > > ideology ?
> >>  > > > warm greetings
> >>  > > > shankar
> >>  > > > --- Madhusree Mukerjee <lopchu@...
> <mailto:lopchu%40att.net>
> >> <lopchu%40att. net><lopchu% 40att.net> > schrieb:
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > > I can't be the only one who finds the tone of this
> >>  > > > > piece extraordinarily offensive. In what sense
> >>  > > > does
> >>  > > > > an immortal cell line come to the rescue of a
> >>  > > > tribe?
> >>  > > > > Is that all there is to a people and their
> >>  > > > > extraordinary complexity? Can any sane person
> >>  > > > > imagine that a bunch of cells in a petri dish even
> >>  > > > > remotely approximates a human being, let alone an
> >>  > > > > entire tribe and its culture? And what about the
> >>  > > > > individuals, their lives, their loves, their
> >>  > > > dreams,
> >>  > > > > their futures? We take away their land, their
> >>  > > > means
> >>  > > > > of survival, we kill them off and appropriate
> >>  > > > their
> >>  > > > > genetic information for our use... and call that a
> >>  > > > > rescue?
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > I never thought I'd say this, but thank heavens
> >>  > > > for
> >>  > > > > the red tape that keeps Lalji Singh from rescuing
> >>  > > > > the Andamanese.
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > Madhusree
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> >>  > > > > removed]
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > > >
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > >
> >>  > > > Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los
> >>  > > > geht's:
> >>  > > > http://de.yahoo. com/set <http://de.yahoo.com/set>
> >>  > > >
> >>  > >
> >>  > > ------------ --------- ----
> >>  > > Rauf Ali
> >>  > > Aurodam
> >>  > > Auroville- 605 101
> >>  > >
> >>  > > Cell: 94437 47146
> >>  > >
> >>  > > Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know
> how, go
> >> to
> >>  > > http://help. yahoo.com/ l/in/yahoo/ mail/yahoomail/
> tools/tools-
> >> 08.html
> >>
>
<http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html>
> >>  > >
> >>  > >
> >>  > >
> >>  >
> >>  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>  >
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.12/1098 - Release
> Date:
> >> 29-Oct-07 9:28 AM
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > http://pankaj-atcrossroads.blogspot.com
> >
> > C/o Kalpavriksh
> > Apt. 5, Sri Dutta Krupa,
> > 908 Deccan Gym
> > Pune 411004
> > India
> > Tel: 020 25654239
> > Mob: 09423009933
> > Email: psekhsaria@...
> >
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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aa i feel who are we to decide for them did anybody bother to asked them
wheather they really wanted to have this blood test done?????

  Bhuneshwari Devi
>
    Advocate,
    Human Right Law Network
    Andaman & Nicobar Isands


>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I also agree with Rauf. DNA studies will threaten the existence of this
tribe, needs more clarification and debate.
I am happy to see Rouf's mail response. Could you send me your email ID
and contant numbers Rouf?
Regards,
Anil Bhardwaj
  Ali wrote:

> Lets be clear about one thing. Andaman tribals are
> going extinct, not because ASI has set up a lab to
> study their DNA, but because of the refusal of the A &
> N Administration to follow their own guidelines.
>
> A little DNA sampling from some museum is not going to
> make any difference of the survival or otherwise, of
> these tribals. And I, for one, would be fascinated by
> any light shed on where these people originated from.
> ASI is to be commended and not slandered for making
> this effort.
>
> In despair,
> Rauf Ali
>
> PS You can start flaming me now.
>
> --- shankar narayanan <shankar_blume@...
> <mailto:shankar_blume%40yahoo.de>> wrote:
>
> > hallo madhushree and others,
> > i was just looking through the mails and i was
> > furious to read that a advanced DNA lab has been
> > established by ASI . and then that CCMB is looking
> > for
> > blood samples of the hunter gatherer tribes of
> > Andaman
> > to save the genetic lineage of these adivasi
> > communities even if they are destroyed! really good
> > to
> > read your mail and those of others who also feel
> > indignant about all this politics of hightech
> > science.
> >
> > all this once again brings up the question, to
> > defend
> > the remaining hunter gatherer communities and to
> > stop
> > genocide and destruction globally dont we have to
> > confront civilisation as such with all its toxic
> > ideology ?
> > warm greetings
> > shankar
> > --- Madhusree Mukerjee <lopchu@... <mailto:lopchu%40att.net>>
> schrieb:
> >
> > > I can't be the only one who finds the tone of this
> > > piece extraordinarily offensive. In what sense
> > does
> > > an immortal cell line come to the rescue of a
> > tribe?
> > > Is that all there is to a people and their
> > > extraordinary complexity? Can any sane person
> > > imagine that a bunch of cells in a petri dish even
> > > remotely approximates a human being, let alone an
> > > entire tribe and its culture? And what about the
> > > individuals, their lives, their loves, their
> > dreams,
> > > their futures? We take away their land, their
> > means
> > > of survival, we kill them off and appropriate
> > their
> > > genetic information for our use... and call that a
> > > rescue?
> > >
> > > I never thought I'd say this, but thank heavens
> > for
> > > the red tape that keeps Lalji Singh from rescuing
> > > the Andamanese.
> > >
> > > Madhusree
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los
> > geht's:
> > http://de.yahoo.com/set <http://de.yahoo.com/set>
> >
>
> -------------------------
> Rauf Ali
> Aurodam
> Auroville- 605 101
>
> Cell: 94437 47146
>
> Get the freedom to save as many mails as you wish. To know how, go to
> http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html
> <http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html>
>
>



--
Anil Kumar Bhardwaj
Scientist-F & Head
Department of PA Network, WM & CE
Wildlife Institute of India
PO Box No. 18 Chandrabani
Dehradun-248 001
Phone : 91-135-2640111-115
Extn: 356 (O), 354 (R)
Direct : 91-135-2641334 (R)
Mobile: 0 9412056376



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is not a matter of believing that “Science” is worthless or worthy. It is the
pretension of Scientific organizations that try to represent themselves as the
preservers and conservators of the Andamanese tribe. The issue is of priority
and what has been done and what needs to be done. Our blind belief in progress
and modernization is often justified by faith in Science and technology will
resolve and correct the future course of human beings. But it is not always the
case. Our present global concern with environment is a classic case of this.
   Samples of various sorts were collected during the Expert Committee visiting
the Jarawa territory. Scientists have already collected sample (in questionable
manner) and published speculations about how and from where the Andaman
Islanders came from and when. Never has the linguistic and material cultural
data taken into consideration to create the past.
   Neither have the so called ‘scientists’ agreed or projected and insisted upon
what the future should be based on the knowing of the present situation. See for
details the Expert committee report and also Economic and Political weekly ( See
September 14-20 2002 Vol XXXVII pp 3830-  ). I have raised the issue of such
‘Absentee experts” in Light of Andamans also.
   I am not trying to polarize the group but requesting the concerned individuals
to galvanize and create an opinion and pressure on approaching the Andaman
Islanders as a issue of insuring they survive with dignity and rights, not as a
potential test tube content or an exotic archival description. It is important
to question and understand what is happening now and how to control the damage.
   Let us think differently and integrate rather then polarize and think about
the devisions of thought.
   Vishvajit Pandya


Devi Prasad K V <devikv@...> wrote:          Since this debate has gone on
for some time, I venture to make a few points:
I dont think ANYTHING the ASI does or can do is likely to benefit the tribals;
but if the cause of science and expanding knowledge base is aided by some effort
of ASI then it should be supported
As to informed consent, I am afraid the term "consent" is at the best of times
ill-defined; what may be assumed to be a consent by some may be a contested act
by others! When we deal with individuals who do not share our paradigm of
existence, it is nearly impossible to define "ethical" rules consistently. So
long as negative effects are not present or extremely improbable reference to
strait jackets serve no useful purpose.
As to "using" the tribals - we "use" our fellow men (who are marginalised and
poor) and their resources day in and day out. It would be impossible to create a
utopia where exploitation is absent. If efforts to learn do not cause harm then
that should be generally sufficient to permit an activity. Precautionary
principles only demands abundant caution, not inaction. Now assume there is a
gene in the tribes that is resistant to some disease X, to which "we" are
susceptible the its discovery would only benefit us. THen, should this preclude
such information being gathered? I think not.
The questions for us to answer - is "our" effort likely to increase threat to
their survival? is "our" effort is something that would be so odious that no one
amongst "us" would allow it on any one of "us" if we knew what is to be done?

Emotions are unavoidable, but science and emotions are rarely good bed fellows.

K V Devi Prasad
Salim Ali School of Ecology
Pondicherry University
Pondicherry 605 014 INDIA
devi@...
devikv@...

----- Original Message ----
From: Madhusree Mukerjee <lopchu@...>
To: andamanicobar@...
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 4:00:52 PM
Subject: [andamanicobar] Re:Blood Test of Endangered Populations!

I should clarify my stand. My objection was to the claim that an immortal cell
line in any way rescues a tribe.

I am not in principle opposed to genetic testing. There have been tests, by
various groups, that establish the Andamanese as the remnants of the first
humans in Asia, dating back 50,000 years or more. Such tests have a political
value, in that they establish the uniqueness of the Andamanese and the primacy
of their rights in the region.

There are problems with how the testing is actually done. International
guidelines call for acquiring informed consent from the person who is being
tested. In practice it is hard to see how such consent can be obtained, and
researchers usually resort to subterfuge. There should also be an understanding
of why the testing is being done. To my mind, if the testing benefits only us,
the larger society, and brings no benefits to the person being tested, it is
unconscionable. It is a way of using another person.

Madhusree

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This had happened in NE too. See links HYPERLINK
"http://www.nagalim.nl/news/00000370.htm"http://www.nagalim.nl/news/00000370
.htm



You can also google similar concerns against collecting blood samples.



Ram





From: andamanicobar@...
[mailto:andamanicobar@...] On Behalf Of Pankaj Andaman
Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2007 12:44 PM
To: Andamanicobar; kvenvironment
Subject: [andamanicobar] Immortalising Andaman tribes



Dear All,
The discussion on the collection of blood samples for genetic materials
of the Andaman tribes is, clearly, one that has very strongly polarised
opinions. This is not surprising considering the fact that this is a
very controversial subject and continues to be fiercely debated in a
number of other forums as well.

It would also be nice if similar situations and the debates, information
and related issues surrounding these are brought to the group by members.

I have compiled all the posts on the egroup on the subject so far
starting with the first one (the article on ndtv.com) and followed by
responses chronologically. These have can be seen at
HYPERLINK
"http://pankaj-atcrossroads.blogspot.com/2007/11/immortalising-andaman-tribe
s.html"http://pankaj-atcrossroads.blogspot.com/2007/11/immortalising-andaman
-tribes.html

I intend to keep updating this string as there are more posts on the
egroup as well.

thanks
pankaj





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I had posted the reply to Madhushree as it was on top the list.  I noticed
Rauf's mail and others disagreeing and agreeing with that only after I posted
it.  May be my earlier practice of silence was the better one - seeing rather
vitriolic assertions.  I would only submit the the tribes of A&N colonised the
Islands 50K years ago!
But enough said - first thoughts are often the best.

K V Devi Prasad
Salim Ali School of Ecology
Pondicherry University
Pondicherry 605 014 INDIA
devi@...
devikv@...



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Since this debate has gone on for some time, I venture to make a few points:
I dont think ANYTHING the ASI does or can do is likely to benefit the tribals; 
but if the cause of science and expanding knowledge base is aided by some effort
of ASI then it should be supported
As to informed consent, I am afraid the term "consent" is at the best of times
ill-defined;  what may be assumed to be a consent by some may be a contested act
by others! When we deal with individuals who do not share our paradigm of
existence, it is nearly impossible to define "ethical" rules consistently.  So
long as negative effects are not present or extremely improbable reference to
strait jackets serve no useful purpose.
As to "using" the tribals - we "use" our fellow men (who are marginalised and
poor) and their resources day in and day out.  It would be impossible to create
a utopia where exploitation is absent.  If efforts to learn do not cause harm
then that should be generally sufficient to permit an activity.  Precautionary
principles only demands abundant caution, not inaction.  Now assume there is a
gene in the tribes that is resistant to some disease X, to which "we" are
susceptible the its discovery would only benefit us.  THen, should this preclude
such information being gathered?  I think not.
The questions for us to answer - is "our" effort likely to increase threat to
their survival?  is "our" effort is something that would be so odious that no
one amongst "us" would allow it on any one of "us" if we knew what is to be
done?

Emotions are unavoidable, but science and emotions are rarely good bed fellows.

K V Devi Prasad
Salim Ali School of Ecology
Pondicherry University
Pondicherry 605 014 INDIA
devi@...
devikv@...

----- Original Message ----
From: Madhusree Mukerjee <lopchu@...>
To: andamanicobar@...
Sent: Thursday, November 1, 2007 4:00:52 PM
Subject: [andamanicobar] Re:Blood Test of Endangered Populations!














             I should clarify my stand. My objection was to the claim that an
immortal cell line in any way rescues a tribe.



I am not in principle opposed to genetic testing. There have been tests, by
various groups, that establish the Andamanese as the remnants of the first
humans in Asia, dating back 50,000 years or more. Such tests have a political
value, in that they establish the uniqueness of the Andamanese and the primacy
of their rights in the region.



There are problems with how the testing is actually done. International
guidelines call for acquiring informed consent from the person who is being
tested. In practice it is hard to see how such consent can be obtained, and
researchers usually resort to subterfuge. There should also be an understanding
of why the testing is being done. To my mind, if the testing benefits only us,
the larger society, and brings no benefits to the person being tested, it is
unconscionable. It is a way of using another person.



Madhusree



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I seem to have missed your point.....
Rauf


--- shankar narayanan <shankar_blume@...> wrote:

> setting up a lab to study the DNA samples is part of
> the process of civilisation to control dominate
> exploit nature as a whole. there is not just this or
> that particular process which brought about the
> colonisation of the whole of nature and thereby of
> all
> communities who live /lived in a non statist non
> civilised way. but it is this continuous
> colonisation
> which is responsible for the destruction of  hunter
> gatherer communties and of earth itself. and no
> doubt
> the industrial civilisation has destroyed and is
> destroying the last of the wilderness. can one
> seperate this colonisation/destruction/genocide and
> the hi tech science which has developed from this
> whole social process and is developed through a
> industrial technological process which is despoiling
> the earth everywhere? and last but not the least
> anthropology if  i may remind developed as part of
> the
> colonisation process. sure anthropologists like
> sahlins and diamond and richard lee , clastres and
> so
> on resisted this colonial ideology and have a huge
> influence today in the world of anthropology. but i
> wouldnt say the same about ASI? to me it appears
> still
> largely the tool of colonisation by the indian
> state.
> and the destruction of the hunter gatherers and
> setting up of the DNA lab is for me two parts of the
> same process.
> one cannot want high tech science and technology and
> the industrial civilisation which produces it with
> resultant despoliation poisoning and destruction of
> the earth and those who live in non destructive
> relationship with it.  fight to defend the last of
> the
> hunter gatherers in Andaman is connected to
> resistance
> and confrontation to a larger social process. and
> last
> of all once again i find this statment from CCMB
> about
> the blood samples  outrageous and insulting to the
> still existing Jarawa people and others. in
> actuality
> destroying the non  statised people and putting the
> artifacts of culture in museums  and their DNA´s in
> Labs is part of the same process. the so called
> objective truth seekers have been indispensable  to
> the development of this megamachine that  destroys
> everything that is not artificial
> --- Rauf Ali <raufie05@...> schrieb:
>
> > Lets be clear about one thing. Andaman tribals are
> > going extinct, not because ASI has set up a lab to
> > study their DNA, but because of the refusal of the
> A
> > &
> > N Administration to follow their own guidelines.
> >
> > A little DNA sampling from some museum is not
> going
> > to
> > make any difference of the survival or otherwise,
> of
> > these tribals. And I, for one, would be fascinated
> > by
> > any light shed on where these people originated
> > from.
> > ASI is to be commended and not slandered for
> making
> > this effort.
> >
> > In despair,
> > Rauf Ali
> >
> > PS You can start flaming me now.
> >
> >
> > --- shankar narayanan <shankar_blume@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > hallo madhushree and others,
> > > i was just looking through the mails and  i was
> > > furious to read that a advanced DNA lab has been
> > > established by ASI . and then that CCMB is
> looking
> > > for
> > > blood samples of the hunter gatherer tribes of
> > > Andaman
> > > to save the genetic lineage of these adivasi
> > > communities even if they are destroyed! really
> > good
> > > to
> > > read your  mail and those of others who also
> feel
> > > indignant about all this politics of hightech
> > > science.
> > >
> > > all this once again brings up the question, to
> > > defend
> > > the remaining hunter gatherer communities and to
> > > stop
> > > genocide and destruction globally dont we have
> to
> > > confront civilisation as such with all its toxic
> > > ideology ?
> > > warm greetings
> > > shankar
> > > --- Madhusree Mukerjee <lopchu@...> schrieb:
> > >
> > > > I can't be the only one who finds the tone of
> > this
> > > > piece extraordinarily offensive. In what sense
> > > does
> > > > an immortal cell line come to the rescue of a
> > > tribe?
> > > > Is that all there is to a people and their
> > > > extraordinary complexity? Can any sane person
> > > > imagine that a bunch of cells in a petri dish
> > even
> > > > remotely approximates a human being, let alone
> > an
> > > > entire tribe and its culture? And what about
> the
> > > > individuals, their lives, their loves, their
> > > dreams,
> > > > their futures? We take away their land, their
> > > means
> > > > of survival, we kill them off and appropriate
> > > their
> > > > genetic information for our use... and call
> that
> > a
> > > > rescue?
> > > >
> > > > I never thought I'd say this, but thank
> heavens
> > > for
> > > > the red tape that keeps Lalji Singh from
> > rescuing
> > > > the Andamanese.
> > > >
> > > > Madhusree
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > > removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >       Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los
> > > geht's:
> > > http://de.yahoo.com/set
> > >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------
> > Rauf Ali
> > Aurodam
> > Auroville- 605 101
> >
> > Cell: 94437 47146
> >
> >
> >       Get the freedom to save as many mails as you
> > wish. To know how, go to
> >
>
http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html
> >
> >
>
>
>
>         __________________________________  Ihr
> erstes Baby? Holen Sie sich Tipps von anderen
> Eltern.  www.yahoo.de/clever
>


-------------------------
Rauf Ali
Aurodam
Auroville- 605 101

Cell: 94437 47146


       Download prohibited? No problem. CHAT from any browser, without download.
Go to http://in.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php/

to understand a person different from your way-  you have to live with
him/her ...
in order to understand what love is - you have to love...

We are spiritual beings - even the ones who think they are not spiritual.
In the face of death they will know :-)

You can sample as much blood as you want - you will not understand anything.

Live with these tribes and love all of them on a daily basis - then you
might have a chance to understand who they are.

All this so called scientific approach is just ridiculous.

This money could be used much more wisely to help the ones who want
"scientific" help.
Leave the ones who do not want your "help' alone.
Just stay out of it.

Your couriosity will kill them.
Once you sample their blood you will find a way to infect them,make them
sick and wipe them out.

LEARN through Love
Respect other ways of life

and by the way: you will never become an artist by sampling my blood :-)

so just fugetaboutit
Sena

office:
255 West 36th Street Suite 1005
New York NY 10018
phone 212 947 7858

http://www.myspace.com/sena_productions

http://www.myspace.com/senamusic
http://www.myspace.com/sena_collection
www.sena-poet.com
www.sena-music.com
www.sena-collection.com


On Thu, November 1, 2007 4:11 am, Pankaj Andaman wrote:
> I don't think it is just a matter of taking a few samples of blood, that
> this will not kill anybody, that the scientific outcomes are useful and
> exciting and therefore there should be no problem.
> The matter is a complex one and there have been and continue to be a
> number of debates on this.
> There are, for instance a number of detailed guidelines (international
> and national) on how this kind of research should be carried out and if
> we look at these we will get a sense of the complexities.
>
> I do have a number of these guidelines and I am posting here a section
> of the guidelines put together in the year 2000 (or about that time) by
> the Govt. of India's Department of Biotechnology (DBT).
> Those who might be interested in receiving the entire set of the DBT
> guidelines or the other ones, please write to me and I will send
> whatever I have on my computer.
>
> The guidelines is a detailed document with the following main heads. I
> am also posting below that the full details of the section under
> consent. It is important to find out that these and all related issues
> have been dealt with by any researcher including Dr. Lalji Singh
> pankaj
>
> ETHICAL POLICIES ON THE HUMAN GENOME, GENETIC RESEARCH AND SERVICES. DBT
>
>
> PREAMBLE
> MEMBERSHIP OF THE NATIONAL BIOETHICS COMMITTEE
> INTRODUCTION
>
>
> POLICIES
> Integrity, Respect and Beneficence
> Justice
> Consent
>
> Gene Therapy & Human Cloning
> Genetic Testing and Counselling
> Genetic Privacy and Discrimination
> Intellectual Property Rights and Benefit Sharing
>
>
> DNA and Cell-line Banking
> International Collaboration
> IMPLEMENTATION OF ETHICAL POLICIES
> Categories of Human Biological Materials
>
> CONSENT
> Consent
>
> Before recruitment of any individual/group in human genome and genetic
> research, consent of the participants must be obtained.
>
> The ethical and legal requirements of consent have two aspects: the
> provision of information and the capacity to make a voluntary choice. So
> as to conform with ethical and legal requirements, obtaining consent
> should involve :
>
> (a) provision to participants, at their level of comprehension and in a
> language or method understandable to them, of information about the
> purpose, methods, demands, risks, inconveniences, discomforts, and
> possible outcomes of the research; and
>
> (b) the exercise of a voluntary choice to participate.
>
> Where a participant lacks competence to consent, a person with lawful
> authority to decide for that participant must be provided with that
> information and exercise that choice.
>
> It is, therefore, recommended that :
>
> (i) A researcher must explain the purpose of the research, the
> foreseeable risks and benefits of participation and alternative
> procedures, if any.
>
> (ii) Consent obtained from each participant, and the participating group
> (where applicable), must be documented.
>
> (iii) Consent is valid only for the research for which it is given by
> the participant (primary use). If the information or samples for primary
> use are to be used for other purposes or for sharing with other
> investigators (secondary use), clear mention of such secondary uses must
> be made during the process of obtaining informed consent. New consent
> must be taken for any use for which consent was not explicitly obtained.
> However this will not be required if the sample is used as an
> "Unidentified" or "Unlinked" sample.
>
> (iv) Consent from a potential participant who is a minor or is so
> handicapped that she/he is incapable of providing informed consent
> (e.g., persons who are legally incompetent, physically or mentally
> challenged) may be taken from a close biological relative, such as
> parents, sibling, or from a legally authorized representative. For a
> mentally ill person, a psychiatrist should certify his/her capability of
> providing voluntary informed consent.
>
> (v) If information pertaining to a deceased individual is required, this
> information may be obtained from a close biological relative or from a
> legally authorized representative.
>
> (vi) Data pertinent to research may be collected on relatives of a
> participant, provided that no information revealing the identity of the
> relative is collected.
>
>
> 1. (vii) When research pertains to a specific community (e.g., an ethnic
> group, an organization of patients), it is desirable to obtain group
> consent before obtaining individual consent. Group consent must also be
> documented.
>
> (viii) Consent of parents must be taken for collection and use of
> biological material from a dead foetus for the purpose of research.
>
> (ix) For research based on information in databases or samples in
> repositories,
>
> (a) no consent of the donor/ participant will be required if the
> information/ samples are unidentified,
>
> (b) individual informed consent of the donor/ participant will be
> required if the information/ samples are identified,
>
> (c) individual informed consent of the donor/ participant will be
> required if the information/ samples are coded, unless the owner(s) of
> the database or repository and the research investigator mutually agree
> not to provide/ receive the research findings based on the information/
> samples.
>
> (x) For research based on human biological materials collected during
> and as part of a clinical procedure or medical care, an informed consent
> for research use of the samples should be obtained separately from that
> obtained for the clinical procedure.
>
> (xi) A person may refuse to participate in a research project or
> withdraw from a research project without giving any reason or
> justification.
>
> ---------------------------
>
> Lima Rosalind wrote:
>>
>>
>> I agree with Rauf too. I too would be delighted if any one can throw
>> some
>> light on the antecedents of this tribe. ASI has been trying for years to
>> get
>> this underway and Iam glad its finally in place.
>>
>> Lima Rosalind
>>
>> On 11/1/07, zubair ahmed <zubairpbl@gmail. com
>> <mailto:zubairpbl%40gmail.com>> wrote:
>>  >
>>  > I agree with Mr Rauf on this one. Who said that tribes will be killed
>> to
>>  > extract blood sample from them? It is going to open a new world of
>>  > scientific and anthropological study. Can anyone shed light on how
>> the DNA
>>  > study will make the tribals extinct. Zubair
>>  >
>>  > On 11/1/07, Rauf Ali <raufie05@yahoo. co.in
>> <mailto:raufie05%40yahoo.co.in> <raufie05%40yahoo. co.in>>
>>  > wrote:
>>  > >
>>  > > Lets be clear about one thing. Andaman tribals are
>>  > > going extinct, not because ASI has set up a lab to
>>  > > study their DNA, but because of the refusal of the A &
>>  > > N Administration to follow their own guidelines.
>>  > >
>>  > > A little DNA sampling from some museum is not going to
>>  > > make any difference of the survival or otherwise, of
>>  > > these tribals. And I, for one, would be fascinated by
>>  > > any light shed on where these people originated from.
>>  > > ASI is to be commended and not slandered for making
>>  > > this effort.
>>  > >
>>  > > In despair,
>>  > > Rauf Ali
>>  > >
>>  > > PS You can start flaming me now.
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  > > --- shankar narayanan <shankar_blume@ yahoo.de
>> <mailto:shankar_blume%40yahoo.de> <shankar_blume% 40yahoo.de> <shankar_
>> blume%40yahoo. de>>
>>  > > wrote:
>>  > >
>>  > > > hallo madhushree and others,
>>  > > > i was just looking through the mails and i was
>>  > > > furious to read that a advanced DNA lab has been
>>  > > > established by ASI . and then that CCMB is looking
>>  > > > for
>>  > > > blood samples of the hunter gatherer tribes of
>>  > > > Andaman
>>  > > > to save the genetic lineage of these adivasi
>>  > > > communities even if they are destroyed! really good
>>  > > > to
>>  > > > read your mail and those of others who also feel
>>  > > > indignant about all this politics of hightech
>>  > > > science.
>>  > > >
>>  > > > all this once again brings up the question, to
>>  > > > defend
>>  > > > the remaining hunter gatherer communities and to
>>  > > > stop
>>  > > > genocide and destruction globally dont we have to
>>  > > > confront civilisation as such with all its toxic
>>  > > > ideology ?
>>  > > > warm greetings
>>  > > > shankar
>>  > > > --- Madhusree Mukerjee <lopchu@... <mailto:lopchu%40att.net>
>> <lopchu%40att. net><lopchu% 40att.net> > schrieb:
>>  > > >
>>  > > > > I can't be the only one who finds the tone of this
>>  > > > > piece extraordinarily offensive. In what sense
>>  > > > does
>>  > > > > an immortal cell line come to the rescue of a
>>  > > > tribe?
>>  > > > > Is that all there is to a people and their
>>  > > > > extraordinary complexity? Can any sane person
>>  > > > > imagine that a bunch of cells in a petri dish even
>>  > > > > remotely approximates a human being, let alone an
>>  > > > > entire tribe and its culture? And what about the
>>  > > > > individuals, their lives, their loves, their
>>  > > > dreams,
>>  > > > > their futures? We take away their land, their
>>  > > > means
>>  > > > > of survival, we kill them off and appropriate
>>  > > > their
>>  > > > > genetic information for our use... and call that a
>>  > > > > rescue?
>>  > > > >
>>  > > > > I never thought I'd say this, but thank heavens
>>  > > > for
>>  > > > > the red tape that keeps Lalji Singh from rescuing
>>  > > > > the Andamanese.
>>  > > > >
>>  > > > > Madhusree
>>  > > > >
>>  > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
>>  > > > > removed]
>>  > > > >
>>  > > > >
>>  > > >
>>  > > >
>>  > > >
>>  > > > Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los
>>  > > > geht's:
>>  > > > http://de.yahoo. com/set <http://de.yahoo.com/set>
>>  > > >
>>  > >
>>  > > ------------ --------- ----
>>  > > Rauf Ali
>>  > > Aurodam
>>  > > Auroville- 605 101
>>  > >
>>  > > Cell: 94437 47146
>>  > >
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>
>
> --
>
> http://pankaj-atcrossroads.blogspot.com
>
> C/o Kalpavriksh
> Apt. 5, Sri Dutta Krupa,
> 908 Deccan Gym
> Pune 411004
> India
> Tel: 020 25654239
> Mob: 09423009933
> Email: psekhsaria@...
>

setting up a lab to study the DNA samples is part of
the process of civilisation to control dominate
exploit nature as a whole. there is not just this or
that particular process which brought about the
colonisation of the whole of nature and thereby of all
communities who live /lived in a non statist non
civilised way. but it is this continuous colonisation
which is responsible for the destruction of  hunter
gatherer communties and of earth itself. and no doubt
the industrial civilisation has destroyed and is
destroying the last of the wilderness. can one
seperate this colonisation/destruction/genocide and
the hi tech science which has developed from this
whole social process and is developed through a
industrial technological process which is despoiling
the earth everywhere? and last but not the least
anthropology if  i may remind developed as part of the
colonisation process. sure anthropologists like
sahlins and diamond and richard lee , clastres and so
on resisted this colonial ideology and have a huge
influence today in the world of anthropology. but i
wouldnt say the same about ASI? to me it appears still
largely the tool of colonisation by the indian state.
and the destruction of the hunter gatherers and
setting up of the DNA lab is for me two parts of the
same process.
one cannot want high tech science and technology and
the industrial civilisation which produces it with
resultant despoliation poisoning and destruction of
the earth and those who live in non destructive
relationship with it.  fight to defend the last of the
hunter gatherers in Andaman is connected to resistance
and confrontation to a larger social process. and last
of all once again i find this statment from CCMB about
the blood samples  outrageous and insulting to the
still existing Jarawa people and others. in actuality
destroying the non  statised people and putting the
artifacts of culture in museums  and their DNA´s in
Labs is part of the same process. the so called
objective truth seekers have been indispensable  to
the development of this megamachine that  destroys
everything that is not artificial
--- Rauf Ali <raufie05@...> schrieb:

> Lets be clear about one thing. Andaman tribals are
> going extinct, not because ASI has set up a lab to
> study their DNA, but because of the refusal of the A
> &
> N Administration to follow their own guidelines.
>
> A little DNA sampling from some museum is not going
> to
> make any difference of the survival or otherwise, of
> these tribals. And I, for one, would be fascinated
> by
> any light shed on where these people originated
> from.
> ASI is to be commended and not slandered for making
> this effort.
>
> In despair,
> Rauf Ali
>
> PS You can start flaming me now.
>
>
> --- shankar narayanan <shankar_blume@...>
> wrote:
>
> > hallo madhushree and others,
> > i was just looking through the mails and  i was
> > furious to read that a advanced DNA lab has been
> > established by ASI . and then that CCMB is looking
> > for
> > blood samples of the hunter gatherer tribes of
> > Andaman
> > to save the genetic lineage of these adivasi
> > communities even if they are destroyed! really
> good
> > to
> > read your  mail and those of others who also feel
> > indignant about all this politics of hightech
> > science.
> >
> > all this once again brings up the question, to
> > defend
> > the remaining hunter gatherer communities and to
> > stop
> > genocide and destruction globally dont we have to
> > confront civilisation as such with all its toxic
> > ideology ?
> > warm greetings
> > shankar
> > --- Madhusree Mukerjee <lopchu@...> schrieb:
> >
> > > I can't be the only one who finds the tone of
> this
> > > piece extraordinarily offensive. In what sense
> > does
> > > an immortal cell line come to the rescue of a
> > tribe?
> > > Is that all there is to a people and their
> > > extraordinary complexity? Can any sane person
> > > imagine that a bunch of cells in a petri dish
> even
> > > remotely approximates a human being, let alone
> an
> > > entire tribe and its culture? And what about the
> > > individuals, their lives, their loves, their
> > dreams,
> > > their futures? We take away their land, their
> > means
> > > of survival, we kill them off and appropriate
> > their
> > > genetic information for our use... and call that
> a
> > > rescue?
> > >
> > > I never thought I'd say this, but thank heavens
> > for
> > > the red tape that keeps Lalji Singh from
> rescuing
> > > the Andamanese.
> > >
> > > Madhusree
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > > removed]
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >       Machen Sie Yahoo! zu Ihrer Startseite. Los
> > geht's:
> > http://de.yahoo.com/set
> >
>
>
> -------------------------
> Rauf Ali
> Aurodam
> Auroville- 605 101
>
> Cell: 94437 47146
>
>
>       Get the freedom to save as many mails as you
> wish. To know how, go to
>
http://help.yahoo.com/l/in/yahoo/mail/yahoomail/tools/tools-08.html
>
>



         __________________________________  Ihr erstes Baby? Holen Sie sich
Tipps von anderen Eltern.  www.yahoo.de/clever

I should clarify my stand. My objection was to the claim that an immortal cell
line in any way rescues a tribe.

I am not in principle opposed to genetic testing. There have been tests, by
various groups, that establish the Andamanese as the remnants of the first
humans in Asia, dating back 50,000 years or more. Such tests have a political
value, in that they establish the uniqueness of the Andamanese and the primacy
of their rights in the region.

There are problems with how the testing is actually done. International
guidelines call for acquiring informed consent from the person who is being
tested. In practice it is hard to see how such consent can be obtained, and
researchers usually resort to subterfuge. There should also be an understanding
of why the testing is being done. To my mind, if the testing benefits only us,
the larger society, and brings no benefits to the person being tested, it is
unconscionable. It is a way of using another person.

Madhusree

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear All,
The discussion on the collection of blood samples for genetic materials
of the Andaman tribes is, clearly, one that has very strongly polarised
opinions. This is not surprising considering the fact that this is a
very controversial subject and continues to be fiercely debated in a
number of other forums as well.

It would also be nice if similar situations and the debates, information
and related issues surrounding these are brought to the group by members.

I have compiled all the posts on the egroup on the subject so far
starting with the first one (the article on ndtv.com) and followed by
responses chronologically. These have can be seen at
http://pankaj-atcrossroads.blogspot.com/2007/11/immortalising-andaman-tribes.htm\
l

I intend to keep updating this string as there are more posts on the
egroup as well.

thanks
pankaj

The problem with this is the notion that such genetic analysis, while it
might doubtless prove useful either from an academic or scientific view,
does NOTHING to immortalise the tribe, as the story's headline claims. There
is a world of difference between genetic material in a lab and a vibrant
living culture and society.
No doubt CCMB and ASI are doing what they are mandated to do. The question
is a larger one of how our society seems to generate the will and resources
for such studies, but not the will or resources to actually protect these
resources in the first place. I don't think anyone suggested that such
protection is the responsibility of either the ASI or CCMB.
ashish


On 10/28/07, Pankaj Sekhsaria <psekhsaria@...> wrote:
>
>   Immortalising vanishing tribes
> ndtv.com
>
> Pallava Bagla
> Friday, October 26, 2007 (Hyderabad)
> Indian scientists have been trying to preserve the genetic lines of
> the country's fast vanishing ethnic tribes in the hope that even if
> the tribes get wiped out their unique genetic material could still be
> available as human heritage to search for medical cures.
>
> But the scientists seem to have hit a real roadblock and are unable to
> get blood samples from the hunter-gatherer tribes of the Andaman
> islands.
>
> India is home to over 500 tribes, of which 70 are classed as
> primitive. But none of them are as endangered as the Jarawas, the
> Onges and the Sentinelese, known to be the world's oldest inhabitants
> after humans migrated from Africa.
>
> In the Andaman islands, the Jarawas number only 200, living north of
> Port Blair. The Onges are down to double digit figures and the
> Sentinelese, who resist any contact with outsiders, are believed to
> number only 250.
>
> These tribes could soon be extinct as their homes are slowly being
> encroached upon by today's civilization. But modern day biology has a
> way of immortalising them.
>
> Dr Lalji Singh, who pioneered DNA finger printing in India, and helped
> crack the Rajiv Gandhi assassination case wants to save this unique
> human heritage.
>
> His laboratory has blood samples of over 100 tribes and 11,000
> individuals preserved for posterity. He wants access to the vanishing
> tribes to collect their blood samples but red tape is holding him
> back.
>
> ''We are desperately trying through the Government of India to provide
> us permission to collect the blood samples in such a manner that the
> day we collect the sample we arrange its transportation by air to CCMB
> where we have fully established the procedure to develop transformed
> cell lines and we can immortalize them for sure.
>
> ''Since last two years we are waiting for permission from the
> government and have the money sanctioned for making the film but have
> not got permission from local authorities to collect blood samples,''
> said Dr Lalji Singh, Director, Centre for Cellular & Molecular
> Biology.
>
> In mainland India where tribes have faced a similar fate science has
> come to their rescue.
>
> By collecting blood samples and processing them scientists have
> created immortal cell lines. Even if the tribals get extinct, at least
> their hereditary material is safe.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]