Dear Rajat,

Demanding for tax exemptions or concessions is a by
product of being part of a system where every other
profession like design is recognised.  If you do not
recognise design profession there is no need for
taxing or not taxing.  As a law abiding and
responsible community it is our utmost duty to find
out our status in the Republic of India.  If tax
concession comes by the way it is a bonus.  So it is
extremely useful to 'recognise' a designer's service
so that he will be able to make an impact in the
society and of course not free of cost but like other
professions for a fee.

It is foolish to think that designers have the sole
right to become reformers or advisers to everybody in
this country so that we will reach eutopia.  We have
chosen our respective paths of work out of choice.
Those who want to be part of rehabilitation it is
because of personal choice and not because they should
be driven by profession of design.

My colleagues and ex-NID graduates will agree how
difficult it is to prove to the real world that being
a designer what can you contribute.  All of us have
enough experience in this. But this is not to say we
as a community are not trying or should not try.  We
will and should always work towards being useful to
the society.

As far as the design policy is concerned it will deal
with design in 4 areas relevant to India,
Economic
Social
Professional
Educational

So I am convinced we will be dealing with all of them
very productively and practically.

Siddharth Dash


________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partner online
Go to: http://yahoo.shaadi.com/india-matrimony

Hi. This is Prachi Mishra and its great to be part of this
unique circle of design professionals and enthusiasts. I
convocated from NID this month. I have finished the school
leaver's programme in textile design. I am currently
freelancing in Delhi.






___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Hi,
I am Ruchi Relan,
I have done my post grad. in Apparel and Accessory Design,have justed
convocated in 2004
from NID.
Am presently working with Fab India.
Regards
Ruchi.

_________________________________________________________________
Redefine team work. Discover your true potential.
http://www.microsoft.com/india/office/experience/ With the MS product suite.

Hi Hemant, 10% is too much expectation. According to one independent report way
back in 1991, 3% of these relief funds makes it to needy rest for the "make up"
of agencies, social/relief - workers, bureaucrats and of course ...
Every time I give money for relief for a noble cause, I am definitely supporting
many lives :)

Sharad


-----Original Message-----
From: Hemant Suthar [mailto:hsuthar@...]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 2:54 PM
To: designindia@...
Subject: Re: [designindia] DESIGN INDIA... WE MUST


Just one question. Do you know if there is a
distribution  channel for PMs relief fund ? They have
and are collecting  loads of funds but where dose it
go  ?  I would rather take the benfits abd give it to
an NGO which really works in the field

Let govt. first  Streamline itself and shed teh excess
Baggage and illiterate ministers who pocket crores of
our tax money.

  You must find out What happend to victims ahmedabad
earthquake and Orissa , ( remeber the polythene scam
in orissa)
  My wild guess is only 10 % of our tax money is
actually used.  rest .... is  a Big BURP!





--- rajat nagpal <desirajat@...> wrote:

> Dear Friends,
>
> It is surprising that we are actually talking about
> incentives and tax concessions apart from many other
> benefits for designers.
> Where would these benefits come from? In the 1992-93
> budget, the Union Government slashed the National
> Malaria Eradication Programme's funds by nearly 43
> percent. In the same budget, the top 10 percent of
> the
> population got tax concessions worth Rs 4,800
> crores.
> Other health programmes suffered too. This is a
> piece
> of trickle down theory (Take it from the poor, give
> it
> to the rich, then watch with bated breath to see how
> much of it trickles down to the poor.) What trickles
> up is money, what trickles down is sheer misery.
> Lets face the reality. Every third human being in
> the
> world without adequate and safe supply of water is
> an
> Indian. Every fourth child who dies of diarrhea is
> an
> Indian. Every third person with leprosy is an
> Indian.
> Every fourth being on this planet dying of water
> borne
> diseases is an Indian. Eighty percent of
> tuberculosis
> deaths in the world are accounted in India. Tens of
> millions are suffering from malnutrition. It lays
> their systems open to an array of fatal ailments.
> Yet
> official expenditure on nutrition is less than one
> percent of the GNP.
> In a country which is diseased like no other , where
> deaths happen by minutes, where the value of a
> citizen's life lowers by the day, we, the esteemed
> designers ask for tax concessions and benefits.
> In our long history of 45 years of organized
> professional set up, let us quantumise our
> contributions to the society in percentage. Then
> lets
> draw up a chart of how needed and necessary we have
> proved ourselves to the system. We would not have to
> go too far. Memories would not have forgotten the
> unforeseen Earthquake that hit Gujarat a couple of
> years ago. Out of 300 odd individuals who are now
> gallantly asking for some design policy for Page
> Three
> products, only 12 volunteered for the rehabilitation
> and relief programmes. Out of the esteemed set of
> faculty and design practitioners which span over two
> hundred in number and have emotional bonds with the
> state for over many years, there were none who spear
> headed even a single programme that could have
> brought
> about a significant change in the scenario. All of a
> sudden, social needs and wants and design
> responsibilities seemed to have taken a step back.
> Yes, we did make committees and sub-committees which
> existed on paper and ink. This entire paragraph
> might
> sound very cynical to all of you, but honestly in
> the
> past half century there have been very few designers
> who have been able to make a significant change to
> the
> society and have been successful enough to meet to
> the
> real demands of the nation.
> With the change of ideologies in the most premier
> design institutes, the chances of people working
> more
> in the favour of the masses, decrease.
> On what basis are we asking for benefits?
> I agree that we need to have a mandate and a
> national
> design policy. There is a need to serve both the
> masses and the classes. But before we step up and
> even
> dare to put our hand forward to the governance for
> an
> iota of benefit, we must look at our community once
> again and think twice. We don't deserve it. When the
> country is able to provide every citizen with ample
> food and safe dinking water, hygiene and shelter, we
> as appendix must then rise to beg to the nation for
> tax benefits. Otherwise, wake up to the call and
> need
> of this dying nation and make our national mandate
> to
> eradicate poverty and provide decent living
> standards
> to every being of this country.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________
>
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even
> more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com







Yahoo! Groups Links

Just one question. Do you know if there is a
distribution  channel for PMs relief fund ? They have
and are collecting  loads of funds but where dose it
go  ?  I would rather take the benfits abd give it to
an NGO which really works in the field

Let govt. first  Streamline itself and shed teh excess
Baggage and illiterate ministers who pocket crores of
our tax money.

  You must find out What happend to victims ahmedabad
earthquake and Orissa , ( remeber the polythene scam
in orissa)
  My wild guess is only 10 % of our tax money is
actually used.  rest .... is  a Big BURP!





--- rajat nagpal <desirajat@...> wrote:

> Dear Friends,
>
> It is surprising that we are actually talking about
> incentives and tax concessions apart from many other
> benefits for designers.
> Where would these benefits come from? In the 1992-93
> budget, the Union Government slashed the National
> Malaria Eradication Programme’s funds by nearly 43
> percent. In the same budget, the top 10 percent of
> the
> population got tax concessions worth Rs 4,800
> crores.
> Other health programmes suffered too. This is a
> piece
> of trickle down theory (Take it from the poor, give
> it
> to the rich, then watch with bated breath to see how
> much of it trickles down to the poor.) What trickles
> up is money, what trickles down is sheer misery.
> Lets face the reality. Every third human being in
> the
> world without adequate and safe supply of water is
> an
> Indian. Every fourth child who dies of diarrhea is
> an
> Indian. Every third person with leprosy is an
> Indian.
> Every fourth being on this planet dying of water
> borne
> diseases is an Indian. Eighty percent of
> tuberculosis
> deaths in the world are accounted in India. Tens of
> millions are suffering from malnutrition. It lays
> their systems open to an array of fatal ailments.
> Yet
> official expenditure on nutrition is less than one
> percent of the GNP.
> In a country which is diseased like no other , where
> deaths happen by minutes, where the value of a
> citizen’s life lowers by the day, we, the esteemed
> designers ask for tax concessions and benefits.
> In our long history of 45 years of organized
> professional set up, let us quantumise our
> contributions to the society in percentage. Then
> lets
> draw up a chart of how needed and necessary we have
> proved ourselves to the system. We would not have to
> go too far. Memories would not have forgotten the
> unforeseen Earthquake that hit Gujarat a couple of
> years ago. Out of 300 odd individuals who are now
> gallantly asking for some design policy for Page
> Three
> products, only 12 volunteered for the rehabilitation
> and relief programmes. Out of the esteemed set of
> faculty and design practitioners which span over two
> hundred in number and have emotional bonds with the
> state for over many years, there were none who spear
> headed even a single programme that could have
> brought
> about a significant change in the scenario. All of a
> sudden, social needs and wants and design
> responsibilities seemed to have taken a step back.
> Yes, we did make committees and sub-committees which
> existed on paper and ink. This entire paragraph
> might
> sound very cynical to all of you, but honestly in
> the
> past half century there have been very few designers
> who have been able to make a significant change to
> the
> society and have been successful enough to meet to
> the
> real demands of the nation.
> With the change of ideologies in the most premier
> design institutes, the chances of people working
> more
> in the favour of the masses, decrease.
> On what basis are we asking for benefits?
> I agree that we need to have a mandate and a
> national
> design policy. There is a need to serve both the
> masses and the classes. But before we step up and
> even
> dare to put our hand forward to the governance for
> an
> iota of benefit, we must look at our community once
> again and think twice. We don’t deserve it. When the
> country is able to provide every citizen with ample
> food and safe dinking water, hygiene and shelter, we
> as appendix must then rise to beg to the nation for
> tax benefits. Otherwise, wake up to the call and
> need
> of this dying nation and make our national mandate
> to
> eradicate poverty and provide decent living
> standards
> to every being of this country.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________
>
> ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even
> more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free!
http://my.yahoo.com

Dear Friends,

It is surprising that we are actually talking about
incentives and tax concessions apart from many other
benefits for designers.
Where would these benefits come from? In the 1992-93
budget, the Union Government slashed the National
Malaria Eradication Programme’s funds by nearly 43
percent. In the same budget, the top 10 percent of the
population got tax concessions worth Rs 4,800 crores.
Other health programmes suffered too. This is a piece
of trickle down theory (Take it from the poor, give it
to the rich, then watch with bated breath to see how
much of it trickles down to the poor.) What trickles
up is money, what trickles down is sheer misery.
Lets face the reality. Every third human being in the
world without adequate and safe supply of water is an
Indian. Every fourth child who dies of diarrhea is an
Indian. Every third person with leprosy is an Indian.
Every fourth being on this planet dying of water borne
diseases is an Indian. Eighty percent of tuberculosis
deaths in the world are accounted in India. Tens of
millions are suffering from malnutrition. It lays
their systems open to an array of fatal ailments. Yet
official expenditure on nutrition is less than one
percent of the GNP.
In a country which is diseased like no other , where
deaths happen by minutes, where the value of a
citizen’s life lowers by the day, we, the esteemed
designers ask for tax concessions and benefits.
In our long history of 45 years of organized
professional set up, let us quantumise our
contributions to the society in percentage. Then lets
draw up a chart of how needed and necessary we have
proved ourselves to the system. We would not have to
go too far. Memories would not have forgotten the
unforeseen Earthquake that hit Gujarat a couple of
years ago. Out of 300 odd individuals who are now
gallantly asking for some design policy for Page Three
products, only 12 volunteered for the rehabilitation
and relief programmes. Out of the esteemed set of
faculty and design practitioners which span over two
hundred in number and have emotional bonds with the
state for over many years, there were none who spear
headed even a single programme that could have brought
about a significant change in the scenario. All of a
sudden, social needs and wants and design
responsibilities seemed to have taken a step back.
Yes, we did make committees and sub-committees which
existed on paper and ink. This entire paragraph might
sound very cynical to all of you, but honestly in the
past half century there have been very few designers
who have been able to make a significant change to the
society and have been successful enough to meet to the
real demands of the nation.
With the change of ideologies in the most premier
design institutes, the chances of people working more
in the favour of the masses, decrease.
On what basis are we asking for benefits?
I agree that we need to have a mandate and a national
design policy. There is a need to serve both the
masses and the classes. But before we step up and even
dare to put our hand forward to the governance for an
iota of benefit, we must look at our community once
again and think twice. We don’t deserve it. When the
country is able to provide every citizen with ample
food and safe dinking water, hygiene and shelter, we
as appendix must then rise to beg to the nation for
tax benefits. Otherwise, wake up to the call and need
of this dying nation and make our national mandate to
eradicate poverty and provide decent living standards
to every being of this country.






___________________________________________________________
ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Hi,
I'm Anees Cementwala.
I did my M Des in Prod Design from IDC 1993 - 95 & my Architecture from SPS
Kolhapur 1988 - 93.
Currently head this in-house design team at Times Entertainment, Mumbai which
services Times Music - a music Co., Planet M - a music store chain & Zoom - the
new TV channel. Mainly print design.
My first job was with an FMCG - Marico, doing Packaging Design for brands like
Sil, Saffola, Parachute.

regards
anees



designindia@... wrote:

> hi,
>
> welcome to design india egroup. I am sudhir sharma and i moderate this group.
> I was in NID during 1983-1989 time and then started elephant design with four
other graduates.
>
> It will be very nice if u can post a brief introduction of yr self on the
group as yr first message. Where are u, what are u doing, where did u study and
any issues u may want to disscuss. this will help others and friends to know
that u are there and to know u.
>
> Also chk out pictures, update yr address in database phonebook as well as take
part in Polls. You have a choice of not recieving mails in yr mailbox and chk
them online...if u need any help on this count let me know.
>
> the membership to this group is through invitation only...only u can invite yr
friend, or whomever u think worthy of being on a professional designers group.
DO send me a mail if you want someone to be invited on the group.
>
> thank you once again and keep posting messages.
>
> regards
> sudhir sharma
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> ---NOTICE---
> This E-mail, including the attachment/(s) if any, has been scanned for viruses
and dangerous content before delivering to
> your Mailbox. For any problem please contact Technical Support Cell - Mumbai.
mumbai_admin@...

Connect to the future with APIC on http://email.indiatimes.com/apic

hi,

just reminding a small protocol which if followed would make our identification
precise and contextual.

Please end yr post or mail (everytime) as folows:

Your name + surname (now)
school , your discpline
Year of graduating
now at company
city

for example:

Sudhir Sharma
NID, VC (or visual communication)
1989
Elephant Design
Pune

regards

Sudhir Sharma
NID, VC (or visual communication)
1989
Elephant Design
Pune

Get up be counted, Have you casted your Vote?

Visit POLL section of the this yahoo egroup regularily and put in your opinion,
It is surprising ho many of us think of design profession and what it really
is...

You are welcome to debate those issues, but your vote can tilt the poll...

So be there...sign of leadership is that they are always there.....

lets remove some myths from our profession...POLL...and often.

regards
PS: you need a yahoo id for polling. In case you do not want yahoo id...just
mail in your opinion.

hi,

welcome to design india egroup. I am sudhir sharma and i moderate this group.
I was in NID during 1983-1989 time and then started elephant design with four
other graduates.

It will be very nice if u can post a brief introduction of yr self on the group
as yr first message. Where are u, what are u doing, where did u study and any
issues u may want to disscuss. this will help others and friends to know that u
are there and to know u.

Also chk out pictures, update yr address in database phonebook as well as take
part in Polls. You have a choice of not recieving mails in yr mailbox and chk
them online...if u need any help on this count let me know.

the membership to this group is through invitation only...only u can invite yr
friend, or whomever u think worthy of being on a professional designers group.
DO send me a mail if you want someone to be invited on the group.

thank you once again and keep posting messages.

regards
sudhir sharma

Hi,
While Design Policy is 'hot', there is another burning
issue taking quite some energy. After Dinesh's update
on service tax, we followed it up in Pune and here is
a sequence of events-

a) I consulted our CA after showing him Dinesh's
letter and then reply by Service Tax Commissioner
about 'exemption of service tax, because designers
'transfer' IPR. He advised that we should apply to
Pune commissioner separaely, not mentioning the
Ahmedabad case and get his consent/opinion. Because
till it is a law, no tax commissioner is bound by
other commissioner's opinion.


b) I copied the language from Dinesh's letter and sent
to Pune commissioner. His reply was 'you fall under
Engineering Consultants' and the service tax liability
is 5% there insted of 10.2%. (later Dinesh told me
over phone that 5% is not a good news because, if at
all we fall under this category, we need to pay taxes
from 1998 with penalty)

c) I replied to them saying that we are far from
'engineering consultants'. They refused to accept this
appeal and said, 'please come and meet personally'.

d) Prakash and myself went and met the Asst.
Commissioner sitting at the 'Single Window for Service
Tax' and clarified what we do, also showed him
Ahmedabad commissioner's letter. He immediately
accepted that we don't fall under service tax, as per
the current categories. However we might fall under
'sales tax' net because what we do would amounts to
'sale' of IPR. But sales tax is not their concern
anyway. He asked us to make a complete new application
with Ahmedabad reference and forward it once again.

It was done and now they have to get back to us.

e) Our CA says that our work and then transfer of
rights to client does not amount to 'sale of IPR',
unless the design has been registered by the design
studio and THEN the rights have been transferred to
client. So sales tax is not applicable to us.

Current status is that Tax dept. has to reply to our
letter.

Can provide all letters/PDFs if someone needs it.

Manoj Kothari



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

Dear Friends

I would like to add to Rashmi's call that we need look at the National
design policy as something far larger and greater in significance than
a charter of facilities and incentives for professional design and
formal design education set-ups to be the nurse maid in service of
Indian Industry. The stakes and issues are far bigger than that.

First of all I would suggest that we make a list of potential
stakeholders to a National Design Policy and to my mind a very large
number of categories of these occur and we must try and get them to
that table if we are serious about sharing and building a viable and
sustainable model that will work for India. Many of these stake holders
do not even know that they need design so there may be some other
stages that we have to go through as well. I would suggest that the
consumer protection act itself has serious implications for both
designers and their client industries in their responsibility to
deliver quality and reliability in all types of services that design
has to offer. Besides the consumer the other stakeholder is the
environment and here too the designer and their client industries have
a responsibility to deliver sustainability. All this means that such a
policy will not come without a corresponding element of accountability,
which is one of the emergent outcomes of this line of thinking.

Besides tax benefits and crisp definitions that Sudhir seems to be
yearning for, we need to look beyond the immediate and at the potential
that the use of design holds for sustainable growth and the far
reaching significance that it has for a huge range of areas where it is
not used today. However, if we are only talking about "Page 3" design,
I rest my case.

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
28 January 4.10 pm IST



On 28-Jan-05, at 1:20 PM, rkorjan wrote:

>
> I wanted to trigger a discussion on the character and nature of the
> design policy we should have. In the absence of a mixed group of
> practitioners, pioneers, teachers, 'elders', from many fields debating
> the policy - online is a good place. Because it is not a committee,
> and it is not only those who managed to make it to one of 4 sessions,
> it is everyone.
> I appreciate Poonam's suggestion for restructuring the sessions and
> using design tools for the task. I think that could be an additional
> way , as the task deserves a good amount of discussion if we are
> looking at the nature of the policy which is unlike adding points
> which have been missed.
> If as Sudhir says we are - about to have this policy soon - then so be
> it. I think we should still discuss what do we as a community of
> designers really want for ourselves, for the country, and for the
> globe.
> As I see it, it's like cooking a good meal - the ingredients should be
> special, fresh, wholesome, well done -  and we deserve a feast!!
> Rashmi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/
>  
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> designindia-unsubscribe@...
>  
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>

Just realized that I am a day late in the forum...Ranjan has already
uploaded the file on - Reflections on Design Policy.

Thanks Ranjan

Manoj Kothari



--- In designindia@..., Manoj Kothari <oniodesign@y...>
wrote:
> In line with the ongoing discussion on Design Policy,
> here is a good pointer article on Korean Design Policy
> on how it was structured and how is it performing
> today-
>
>
http://www.idemployee.id.tue.nl/g.w.m.rauterberg/conferences/CD_doNotO
pen/ADC/final_paper/320.pdf
>
> ...
>
> While all of us have the nagging doubts/queries on
> some key ingredient that might 'possibly be missed or
> overlooked or mis-interpreted' in the process of
> formulating the poicy at the national level.. or not
> leap-frogging even after the late start...Won't it be
> a good idea to put together a 'MUST HAVE' list on this
> forum...This would facilitate and focus the
> discussion. Ranjan, with your extensive readings and
> with authority of a senior, you might like to assist
> us with this.... we all can chip-in point by point
> after that.
>
> Manoj Kothari
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

In line with the ongoing discussion on Design Policy,
here is a good pointer article on Korean Design Policy
on how it was structured and how is it performing
today-

http://www.idemployee.id.tue.nl/g.w.m.rauterberg/conferences/CD_doNotOpen/ADC/fi\
nal_paper/320.pdf

...

While all of us have the nagging doubts/queries on
some key ingredient that might 'possibly be missed or
overlooked or mis-interpreted' in the process of
formulating the poicy at the national level.. or not
leap-frogging even after the late start...Won't it be
a good idea to put together a 'MUST HAVE' list on this
forum...This would facilitate and focus the
discussion. Ranjan, with your extensive readings and
with authority of a senior, you might like to assist
us with this.... we all can chip-in point by point
after that.

Manoj Kothari



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

Hi Shalini,
Check out www.mega-trend.com, a trend forcasting
portal, owned by Style Vision (France).

You may get a clue (its recent trend report is
co-authored by Onio). These people also offer
customized forecasts.

Regards,
Manoj Kothari
Onio Design Pvt. Ltd.


________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 20:59:50 -0800 (PST)
>    From: gupta shalini <gshalini7@...>
> Subject: need advice on textile forecast
>
>
> hullo textile designers,
>
> i need some help. i am interested in sourcing a
> textile forecast for yarn , colours and trends for
> homefurnishing fabrics. can someone please suggest
> which forecasts work the best for the US and UK
> markets.
>
> esp if someone working in a related area like woven
> furnishings from blore or mumbai can please advice.
>
>
>
> thanks and regards,
>
> shalini gupta bansal, design consultant,seasons
> furnishings, delhi
>
> [aep td 2000]
>
>
>
> Shalini
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Dear Friends

I would like to add to Rashmi's call that we need look at the National
design policy as something far larger and greater in significance than
a charter of facilities and incentives for professional design and
formal design education set-ups to be the nurse maid in service of
Indian Industry. The stakes and issues are far bigger than that.

First of all I would suggest that we make a list of potential
stakeholders to a National Design Policy and to my mind a very large
number of categories of these occur and we must try and get them to
that table if we are serious about sharing and building a viable and
sustainable model that will work for India. Many of these stake holders
do not even know that they need design so there may be some other
stages that we have to go through as well. I would suggest that the
consumer protection act itself has serious implications for both
designers and their client industries in their responsibility to
deliver quality and reliability in all types of services that design
has to offer. Besides the consumer the other stakeholder is the
environment and here too the designer and their client industries have
a responsibility to deliver sustainability. All this means that such a
policy will not come without a corresponding element of accountability,
which is one of the emergent outcomes of this line of thinking.

Besides tax benefits and crisp definitions that Sudhir seems to be
yearning for, we need to look beyond the immediate and at the potential
that the use of design holds for sustainable growth and the far
reaching significance that it has for a huge range of areas where it is
not used today. However, if we are only talking about "Page 3" design,
I rest my case.

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
28 January 4.10 pm IST



On 28-Jan-05, at 1:20 PM, rkorjan wrote:

>
>  I wanted to trigger a discussion on the character and nature of the
>  design policy we should have. In the absence of a mixed group of
>  practitioners, pioneers, teachers, 'elders', from many fields debating
>  the policy - online is a good place. Because it is not a committee,
>  and it is not only those who managed to make it to one of 4 sessions,
>  it is everyone.
>  I appreciate Poonam's suggestion for restructuring the sessions and
>  using design tools for the task. I think that could be an additional
>  way , as the task deserves a good amount of discussion if we are
>  looking at the nature of the policy which is unlike adding points
>  which have been missed.
>  If as Sudhir says we are - about to have this policy soon - then so be
>  it. I think we should still discuss what do we as a community of
>  designers really want for ourselves, for the country, and for the
>  globe.
>  As I see it, it's like cooking a good meal - the ingredients should be
>  special, fresh, wholesome, well done -  and we deserve a feast!!
>  Rashmi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>  •  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/
>  
>  • 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> designindia-unsubscribe@...
>  
>  • 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the designindia
group.

   File        : /MPR_Design_Policy_2005.doc
   Uploaded by : ranjanmp <ranjanmp@...>
   Description : M P Ranjan on Design Policy

You can access this file at the URL

http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/files/MPR_Design_Policy_2005.doc

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/in/groups/files

Regards,

ranjanmp <ranjanmp@...>

I wanted to trigger a discussion on the character and nature of the
design policy we should have. In the absence of a mixed group of
practitioners, pioneers, teachers, 'elders', from many fields debating
the policy - online is a good place. Because it is not a committee,
and it is not only those who managed to make it to one of 4 sessions,
it is everyone.
I appreciate Poonam's suggestion for restructuring the sessions and
using design tools for the task. I think that could be an additional
way , as the task deserves a good amount of discussion if we are
looking at the nature of the policy which is unlike adding points
which have been missed.
If as Sudhir says we are - about to have this policy soon - then so be
it. I think we should still discuss what do we as a community of
designers really want for ourselves, for the country, and for the
globe.
As I see it, it's like cooking a good meal - the ingredients should be
special, fresh, wholesome, well done -  and we deserve a feast!!
Rashmi

Dear shalini,

When i was working with home textiles in Bombay (with zeba design studio);
I felt that World of Interiors was a fantastic study of contemporary
textiles and the interior market as such- art that was making waves in the
west, interiors designers, design studios with their innovative
collections, student designers and their portfolios, wall papers, home
accessories etc-- a whole lot of things that will eventually help you put
together stories of what is going to happen in the next few months or
seasons.
Even to gather up info on what is going on in the textile restoration
scene, this has fantastic coverage (this helped me during my diploma
project particularly)
They also have season projections with wonderfully styled and shot
photographs, which have lot of space for personal interpretation.
Trust this should help,
keep in touch
priya mani



>
> hullo textile designers,
>
> i need some help. i am interested in sourcing a textile forecast for yarn
> , colours and trends for homefurnishing fabrics. can someone please
> suggest which forecasts work the best for the US and UK markets.
>
> esp if someone working in a related area like woven furnishings from blore
> or mumbai can please advice.
>
>
>
> thanks and regards,
>
> shalini gupta bansal, design consultant,seasons furnishings, delhi
>
> [aep td 2000]
>
>
>
> Shalini
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term'

I think the issue is no more "If we need a design Policy"....like
all other National Policies (where ever we have one) we are about to
have this one too.

1. National design Policy will be announced soon since the ball is
already rolling and there is a chance to contribute to it by
attending the sessions as well as by posting your thoughts to CII or
to Dr. Koshy. Its crucial we do this now, time is of essence, must
attend the meetings and send mails. I found The Chief secy. Mr. D'sa
very open and accepting, perhaps you have a point which is missed.

2. Like we make best use of the policies, councils, taxes otherwise-
we shall do so with design policy, once the policy and its
implementation is out. If design policy does define the term
designer- and design and then clarifies its relationship to IPRs,
Taxation, Lagalities, we would have a better clarity in our
profession. I beleive it is going to take some time before this
policy comes in any tangible form and perhaps till then we can
debate and think.

regards
sudhir

Rashmi and Poonam have raised the ante for the Design Policy debate. We
certainly need to take the broader view of design if it is to be of any
use to India and all the sectors that are desperately in need of its
service, all 230 sectors that is, as we have mapped out as part of our
Design Concepts and Concerns course at NID over the past few years.
Design at the systems level and using systems thinking at its very core
is something that will have to be fostered and nurtured in an Indian
policy regime that is so far dominated by a "science and technology
think" that has also dominated western civilisation for the past 750
years. We know, and many recent authors in a number of fields too share
that this think does not work and this is to be moved forward by
evolving towards a "design think" which is now synonymous with "systems
think"(in my view).

I am reading a book by Prof Harold G. Nelson and Erik Stolterman titled
"The Design Way :Intentional Change in an Unpredictable World -
Foundations and Fundamentals of Design Competence", Educational
Technology Publications Inc, New Jersey, 2002 and it brings into sharp
focus the role of design and it also clearly sets out the limitations of
science and technology in dealing with real world issues that are as yet
unknown and lying in the future. According to them while science and
technology can provide us evidence of fundamental truths they cannot act
on the real world to create a new solution, which is the domain of
design. This is a very new expression of the role of design that will
set the agenda for policy change at the global level. Prof Christopher
Alexander in his recent set of books on the Nature of Order brings home
the same arguements and since India is embarking so late on the
articulation of our National Design Policy we can leapfrog our
conceptual models to absorb the value of these offerings. You can read
Prof Harold G. Nelson interviews at the NextD Journal link
<http://www.nextd.org/02/04/03/index.html> and his website, the Advanced
Design Institute, Fairfax, Califiornia, is
<http://www.advanceddesign.org/default.htm>. I urge you all to check
ourt these ideas, they are mind blowing in articulating the real power
of design. He says "Humans did not discover fiire, they designed it".
This statement certainly will set the cat amongst the pigeons, but why
should we be shy to be designers in India? Time to be apologetic is
over. Let us act as only we can.

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
27 January 2005 at 3.10 pm IST

___________________________________________________________________

Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Initiatives
Faculty Member on NID Governing Council (2003 -2004)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 INDIA

Tel: 91+79+26610054 (Res)
Tel: 91+79+26639692 ext 1090 (Off)
Tel: 91+79+26639692 ext 4095 (Off)
Fax: 91+79+26605242

email: <ranjanmp@...
web archive: <http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/>
___________________________________________________________________
"
- Thirukkural (200 BC) 666

People who elevate the thoughts,
through constant reflection,
and be steadfast in their action,
will positively achieve,
what they originally thought."

Quote from the Republic day address of the President of India from his
official website.......

This should guide us towards a national design policy that is of value
and is sustainable.


Nandini wrote:

> I agree about the divide that exists between groups or
> 'types' of designers. Many of us work in environments
> where there is no blue print of what design is or what
> a designer does. This means we make up our own
> processes and definitions.
> And tend to make value judgements on each other's
> work.
>
>
> Design is a complex term to define. And there will be
> almost as many definitions as there are designers.
> Sometimes I think, that we would benefit as designers,
> if we could all temporarily change places with each
> other!
>
> Good luck with the design council,
>
> naga nandini
> --- Poonam Bir Kasturi <pbkasturi@...> wrote:
>
> > Well put Rashmi,
> >
> > I feel that we are such a small community still-
> >
> > This can be a strength if we really really admit
> > that the divide that exists within our group needs
> > a more honest articulation. What I mean is -
> > I can see a group of designers immediately look
> > at your mail and say - thats not what we need,
> > while another group will nod and
> > say aye aye.
> >
> > I think there is a way of getting both sides
> > to talk - to listen and creatively find a new
> > way of dealing with this divide - and it is
> > a divide. I know that the divide will not go away
> > and
> > a divide will always exist - I just think that
> > its more enriching to create bridges at some points
> > at least.
> > I also think that design methods can
> > be effectively used to create these bridges.
> > I may sound naive - but I hope, I feel I
> > need to be able to make a business world see
> > how completely unproductive it is to put a nude
> > on a cover that talks of good design.
> >
> > It can happen through design - if an IDEO
> > was given this task - how would they approach it?
> > even Charles Eames and Kumar Vyas would urge us to
> > use our
> > own tools to meet this task - instead of
> > relying only on tools of an email group - or
> > a discussion that is not structured to be
> > facilitative
> > or truely engaging (where you really don't net
> > ideas.)
> >
> > Maybe we can create a structure for the meetings in
> > Mumbai and Bangalore that are radically different?
> > I offer my time to this if needed by the powers that
> > be.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Poonam Bir Kasturi
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/
>
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       designindia-unsubscribe@...
>       <mailto:designindia-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://in.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>

I agree about the divide that exists between groups or
'types' of designers. Many of us work in environments
where there is no blue print of what design is or what
a designer does. This means we make up our own
processes and definitions.
And tend to make value judgements on each other's
work.


Design is a complex term to define. And there will be
almost as many definitions as there are designers.
Sometimes I think, that we would benefit as designers,
if we could all temporarily change places with each
other!

Good luck with the design council,

naga nandini
--- Poonam Bir Kasturi <pbkasturi@...> wrote:

> Well put Rashmi,
>
> I feel that we are such a small community still-
>
> This can be a strength if we really really admit
> that the divide that exists within our group needs
> a more honest articulation. What I mean is -
> I can see a group of designers immediately look
> at your mail and say - thats not what we need,
> while another group will nod and
> say aye aye.
>
> I think there is a way of getting both sides
> to talk - to listen and creatively find a new
> way of dealing with this divide - and it is
> a divide. I know that the divide will not go away
> and
> a divide will always exist - I just think that
> its more enriching to create bridges at some points
> at least.
> I also think that design methods can
> be effectively used to create these bridges.
> I may sound naive - but I hope, I feel I
> need to be able to make a business world see
> how completely unproductive it is to put a nude
> on a cover that talks of good design.
>
> It can happen through design - if an IDEO
> was given this task - how would they approach it?
> even Charles Eames and Kumar Vyas would urge us to
> use our
> own tools to meet this task - instead of
> relying only on tools of an email group - or
> a discussion that is not structured to be
> facilitative
> or truely engaging (where you really don't net
> ideas.)
>
> Maybe we can create a structure for the meetings in
> Mumbai and Bangalore that are radically different?
> I offer my time to this if needed by the powers that
> be.
>
> Cheers
> Poonam Bir Kasturi
>
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

Well put Rashmi,

I feel that we are such a small community still-

This can be a strength if we really really admit
that the divide that exists within our group needs
a more honest articulation. What I mean is -
I can see a group of designers immediately look
at your mail and say - thats not what we need,
while another group will nod and
say aye aye.

I think there is a way of getting both sides
to talk - to listen and creatively find a new
way of dealing with this divide - and it is
a divide. I know that the divide will not go away and
a divide will always exist - I just think that
its more enriching to create bridges at some points at least.
I also think that design methods can
be effectively used to create these bridges.
I may sound naive - but I hope, I feel I
need to be able to make a business world see
how completely unproductive it is to put a nude
on a cover that talks of good design.

It can happen through design - if an IDEO
was given this task - how would they approach it?
even Charles Eames and Kumar Vyas would urge us to use our
own tools to meet this task - instead of
relying only on tools of an email group - or
a discussion that is not structured to be facilitative
or truely engaging (where you really don't net ideas.)

Maybe we can create a structure for the meetings in
Mumbai and Bangalore that are radically different?
I offer my time to this if needed by the powers that be.

Cheers
Poonam Bir Kasturi



-----Original Message-----
From: rkorjan [mailto:rashmi@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:49 AM
To: designindia@...
Subject: [designindia] design policy





Part of the excitement about  the prospect of having a design policy
and a design council stems from the idea that this will finally give
this young profession legitimacy, it will make the practice of design
more viable. This may happily be so. But the design policy will also
draw the boundaries of and set the agenda for design activities in the
country. For this reason it is essential that we take great care in
how design is understood and expressed in this document, or we will be
putting ourselves back many years.

In the absence of any official design policy statement, i believe the
Eames Report served as a guide and set the terms for early design
activity in our country.At the heart of the report is service to the
people of India and the values they hold dear.
'' It (the objective) may be restated as a desire to create an alert
an impatient national conscience concerned with the quality and
ultimate values of the envronment.''
also ''What does India ultimately desire? What do Indians desire for
themselves and for India''?

That report was produced in 1958. In the decades that followed, around
the world there has been much questioning about what design is /
should be and how it should be done. The back drop, and much of the
provocation for this questioning has been a period of rapid change -
in technology, politics, economy, communications, etc leading to
significant changes in social values. In Design this reflection
resulted in new practices – user centred design, inclusive design,
participatory design, design 'by teams', design 'in the field',
sustainable design, interface design, design of product-service
systems, and others that I maybe missing. The traditional role of
design – of giving form to products for mass production has certainly
been replaced with these new pespectives.

In addition there has been a growing recognition of 'design' as a form
of enquiry, distinct from art and scientific enquiry. In this avatar
design plays a much broader and significant role – in scenario
building for possible futures, in connecting technological, economic,
cultural and social dimensions, in influencing what kinds of
experiences, objects, worlds are worth pursuing. Design scenarios can
inspire decision makers to think differently, they can challenge
accepted thinking on important issues and suggest directions to follow
up on. If design is to be put to work as a resource for the nation,
then this is where it will bring long term gains.

Design brings value. The practice of design in the service of industry
brings value in economic terms – which can be quantified and measured.
But greater value will come from the integration of design in the
decision making process.This is difficult to measure but it can be
experienced and one of the challenges will be to capture and record
these stories and make them widely known.

On a more practical note, we need to get these dimensions into the
design policy - as we know, grants for contributing to economic goals
are easy to come by but there will be no funding or support for
journeys to places that are not even on the map.








Yahoo! Groups Links

Dear Rashmi,

I am in full support of what you have been able to articulate in this forum.

''What does India ultimately desire? What do Indians desire for
themselves and for India''?

“...in connecting technological, economic,
cultural and social dimensions, in influencing what kinds of
experiences, objects, worlds are worth pursuing. Design scenarios can
inspire decision makers to think differently, they can challenge
accepted thinking on important issues and suggest directions to follow
up on. If design is to be put to work as a resource for the nation, then this is where it will bring long term gains.”


 -I think this should be the basis of the design policy discussions. The the rest of the issues can be carefully emulated from other experienced design policies in practice all over the world. Reconditioning and refitted to ‘India’ specific functioning and policy implementation scenarios. We can definitely learn from others mistakes and successes. This will help us articulate and position the policy towards a marketable proposition to us Indians and the rest of the world.

regards
Anthony Lopez

• To visit your group on the web, go to:
• http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/
• To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
• designindia-unsubscribe@... <mailto:designindia-unsubscribe@...?subject=Unsubscribe>
• Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://in.docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
  

Part of the excitement about  the prospect of having a design policy
and a design council stems from the idea that this will finally give
this young profession legitimacy, it will make the practice of design
more viable. This may happily be so. But the design policy will also
draw the boundaries of and set the agenda for design activities in the
country. For this reason it is essential that we take great care in
how design is understood and expressed in this document, or we will be
putting ourselves back many years.

In the absence of any official design policy statement, i believe the
Eames Report served as a guide and set the terms for early design
activity in our country.At the heart of the report is service to the
people of India and the values they hold dear.
'' It (the objective) may be restated as a desire to create an alert
an impatient national conscience concerned with the quality and
ultimate values of the envronment.''
also ''What does India ultimately desire? What do Indians desire for
themselves and for India''?

That report was produced in 1958. In the decades that followed, around
the world there has been much questioning about what design is /
should be and how it should be done. The back drop, and much of the
provocation for this questioning has been a period of rapid change -
in technology, politics, economy, communications, etc leading to
significant changes in social values. In Design this reflection
resulted in new practices – user centred design, inclusive design,
participatory design, design 'by teams', design 'in the field',
sustainable design, interface design, design of product-service
systems, and others that I maybe missing. The traditional role of
design – of giving form to products for mass production has certainly
been replaced with these new pespectives.

In addition there has been a growing recognition of 'design' as a form
of enquiry, distinct from art and scientific enquiry. In this avatar
design plays a much broader and significant role – in scenario
building for possible futures, in connecting technological, economic,
cultural and social dimensions, in influencing what kinds of
experiences, objects, worlds are worth pursuing. Design scenarios can
inspire decision makers to think differently, they can challenge
accepted thinking on important issues and suggest directions to follow
up on. If design is to be put to work as a resource for the nation,
then this is where it will bring long term gains.

Design brings value. The practice of design in the service of industry
brings value in economic terms – which can be quantified and measured.
But greater value will come from the integration of design in the
decision making process.This is difficult to measure but it can be
experienced and one of the challenges will be to capture and record
these stories and make them widely known.

On a more practical note, we need to get these dimensions into the
design policy - as we know, grants for contributing to economic goals
are easy to come by but there will be no funding or support for
journeys to places that are not even on the map.