I have just procured a delightful set of films by Ray and Charles
eames. Those of you who fondly remember "Toy trains", "Tops"
and "Powers of ten" will know what I am talking about. The film i
was really after was "lota", which wasn't in the collection. I hope
someday i will get a copy from NID. Any one with access to it please
let me know...

Yesterday i got a package with 4 DVD volumes from
www.eamesoffice.com. I had bought them over the internet about a
month ago. This morning i spent a couple of hours browsing through
them. I wish i could share them with at least some of you.

Heres a list of films in the DVDs: (i did not think i was getting
value for money from volumes 3 and 6)

Volume 1
Powers of 10 (i didnt know it was narrated by Gregory peck)
Powers of 10 sketch ("home" version, narrated by Ray herself,
possibly)
901 : After 45 years of living. (This was a film made by Eamess son
Demetrios, a few days after Ray died. Just a visual record of
everything in the Eamess studio before it was all dismantled and
packed off. Quite something)

Volume 2
Tocatta for toy trains
House: after 5 years of living (Eamess own house photos. Nice
photos, but boring after a point)
Lucia Chase Vignette (short film showing eames's daughter chasing
her brother through the house)
Kaleidoscope jazz chairs (things seen through a kaleidoscope, though
i didnt see any chairs)
The black ships (yet to see)
Atlas (yet to see)
Blacktop (washing down of a school yard. a tad bit too long, but
visually stunning)

Volume 4
Design Q & A (i will transcribe this and post it here because its so
elegantly simple, especially since theres a lot of discussion on
aesthetics)
IBM Mathematics peep shows (brilliant little animatics films on
concepts of maths and geometry)
SX 70 (a promotional film for the polaroid company, about a camera
the eamess loved to work with)
Copernicus (havent seen yet)
Fiberglass chairs (process of making the eames chair, visually just
so beautiful)
Goods (a 3 screen presentation on simple things: a ball of yarn, keg
of nails, reams of paper...)

Volume 5
(yet to see this volume)
Tops
IBM at the fair
A computer glossary
Eames Lounge chair
The expanding airport
Keplers Laws
Bread
Polyorchis Haplus
Tops II

I am willing to share these films if anyones interested :)

santayan sengupta
NID, PD, 94
Kolkata 53
www.thoughtshopfoundation.org

Raja Mohanty wrote:

> Thankyou for the note. While reading on aesthetics, I came across an
> interesting observation that juxtaposes *"anaesthetic" as something that
> deadens our senses- and therefore aesthetic, as that which elevates.*

i like this. never thought of it that way.

it is amazing the number of decisions that are made based on this
aesthetic sense almost everyday. who to sit next to when you have a
choice. which rickshawallah / cabdriver looks more trustworthy when you
are in a new city. who to vote for. who smile at. which product to buy
when the price and features are similar. somehow, somewhere we have been
converting all our learning into an aesthetic sense? somehow one knows
instantly what to do.

after  years of practising product design, i had come to the conclusion
that Form Follows. you pursue whatever fascinates you in the product and
Form follows. this works well and it is very gratifying to see a form
emerge that reflects your thought process.

but when you put yourself in the customer's shoes - form leads. when you
fall in love with a product you will find all kinds of reasons to buy it.

regards.
dinesh korjan . studio korjan ahmedabad . nid pd 1976


--
Studio Korjan
15 Sameepam, NarayanNagar Road
Paldi, Ahmedabad 380 007, India
Tel/Fax: +91-79-2661 3188
studio@...   www.korjan.com


--
Studio Korjan
15 Sameepam, NarayanNagar Road
Paldi, Ahmedabad 380 007, India
Tel/Fax: +91-79-2661 3188
studio@...   www.korjan.com

deborani@...

Ajay Kumar (ajoooy@...) wrote*:
>
>Dear all
>
>
>
>Can someone help me get Deborani Duttagupta's email ID??
>
>
>
>Ajay
>
>IDC 91-93
>
>ajay@...
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Check this out:

http://www.mouthshut.com/read.php?cid=925081

Sagar

----------------------------------------
On 04-Oct-05, at 6:11 PM, Designbar Studio wrote:

> Kindly suggest Colour Laser Printers for graphic
> design studios.
> Which can print CMYK proofs, and doesn't cost more
> than Rs.1 lakh.
>
> Also suggest A3 size flatbed scanners.
>
> Regards,
> Rizvi
> 9819817172
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Dont touch tektronix (even though it is with xerox now, we have had
service problems twice...for the studio u need A3 and colour laser
for A3 would be about 4 lacs plus...Docucolor 12 is a good idea but
it is expensive..12 lac plus.

I think inkjets offer a very good solution for graphic studios
though CMYK and RGB fidility is not very good.

sudhir
elephant design

--- In designindia@..., "sandy" <sandy@t...> wrote:
> Hi Rizvi,
> I did some research for my studio in the last few months. Here is
my
> understanding as of now.
> Color laser printers for less than 1 lakh is a tough question
(starting
> price is around 2.5 lakhs+) guess a second hand laser printer
would be a
> good answer. In my office, I have tried HP and Epson (DC2006)
laser printers
> and I have not been very happy with the results (the continuous
tone
> printers still have banding issues when you print bright colors
like orange
> or light blue)and color calibration is very painful. DocuColor 12
(from
> Xerox) has been the best answer to my needs as of now, and it
costs around
> 30,000USD.
>
>  As an alternative, you can buy an A3 size Epson inkjet printer
(will cost
> you around a lakh, will give you better color and resolution
(1440dpi++ in
> comparison to 400-600 DPI laser) but per page print cost would be
much more
> (Rs.18-35 per sq ft depending upon what resolution you print).
> http://www.ephotozine.com/equipment/tests/testdetail.cfm?test_id=86
>
>  You can perhaps try inks that are provided by vendors other than
Epson, and
> reduce your running costs.
(http://www.yanmaink.com/product/bulkink.htm )
> http://www.yanmaink.com/product/epson.htm
>  Check the models for which refill ink is available as it is not
available
> for all..)I have seen the results, and they are pretty good. (the
cost comes
> down to less than 5% for the ink, paper would be still expensive).
These
> people have their presence in India and if you write a mail to
them you can
> get the dealers in your city.
>
> Let me know if I can be of any other help.
> Regards
> Sandy
> Sanandan Sudhir
> AEP-PD NID  2001
> GEHC Bangalore 560066
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: designindia@...
[mailto:designindia@...]
> On Behalf Of Designbar Studio
> Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:12 PM
> To: designindia@...
> Subject: [designindia] Suggest Printers & Scanners for design
studios
>
> Kindly suggest Colour Laser Printers for graphic
> design studios.
> Which can print CMYK proofs, and doesn't cost more
> than Rs.1 lakh.
>
> Also suggest A3 size flatbed scanners.
>
> Regards,
> Rizvi
> 9819817172
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links

Hi Rizvi,
I did some research for my studio in the last few months. Here is my
understanding as of now.
Color laser printers for less than 1 lakh is a tough question (starting
price is around 2.5 lakhs+) guess a second hand laser printer would be a
good answer. In my office, I have tried HP and Epson (DC2006) laser printers
and I have not been very happy with the results (the continuous tone
printers still have banding issues when you print bright colors like orange
or light blue)and color calibration is very painful. DocuColor 12  (from
Xerox) has been the best answer to my needs as of now, and it costs around
30,000USD.

  As an alternative, you can buy an A3 size Epson inkjet printer (will cost
you around a lakh, will give you better color and resolution (1440dpi++ in
comparison to 400-600 DPI laser) but per page print cost would be much more
(Rs.18-35 per sq ft depending upon what resolution you print).
http://www.ephotozine.com/equipment/tests/testdetail.cfm?test_id=86

  You can perhaps try inks that are provided by vendors other than Epson, and
reduce your running costs. (http://www.yanmaink.com/product/bulkink.htm )
http://www.yanmaink.com/product/epson.htm
  Check the models for which refill ink is available as it is not available
for all..)I have seen the results, and they are pretty good. (the cost comes
down to less than 5% for the ink, paper would be still expensive). These
people have their presence in India and if you write a mail to them you can
get the dealers in your city.

Let me know if I can be of any other help.
Regards
Sandy
Sanandan Sudhir
AEP-PD NID  2001
GEHC Bangalore 560066







-----Original Message-----
From: designindia@... [mailto:designindia@...]
On Behalf Of Designbar Studio
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 6:12 PM
To: designindia@...
Subject: [designindia] Suggest Printers & Scanners for design studios

Kindly suggest Colour Laser Printers for graphic
design studios.
Which can print CMYK proofs, and doesn't cost more
than Rs.1 lakh.

Also suggest A3 size flatbed scanners.

Regards,
Rizvi
9819817172




__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com





Yahoo! Groups Links

Strange, how memories spill over
for i knew another arora,
amitabh, a songwriter of songs,
in mumbaiya-hinglish
knew of whitman who spoke of
night skies and the babble of the learned
astronomers,
knew of the sun, moon, rain.
thankyou therefore for speaking of the sun,
thus.




> befuddled by words I hang onto an idea of good, my
> idea of good, straining to be heard and understood,
> when I am speaking in a tongue as alien to me as it is
> to you. In the details, the sun scratching my face.
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new
> Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

befuddled by words I hang onto an idea of good, my
idea of good, straining to be heard and understood,
when I am speaking in a tongue as alien to me as it is
to you. In the details, the sun scratching my face.



___________________________________________________________
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo!
Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

Thrice blessed and shared fourfold -
How I think I will answer when students and others ask me why we do what
we do as designers.

Thanks Kumar for that and I am really glad you hear you on this forum.

Warm regards
Poonam Bir Kasturi

NID PD 85




-----Original Message-----
From: designindia@...
[mailto:designindia@...] On Behalf Of h. vyas
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2005 5:04 PM
To: designindia@...
Subject: [designindia] design and aesthetics

Hope this not too late a contribution.

Is there an aesthetics of design?

Before answering the oft-asked question it would not
be a bad idea to deal with another ancillary question
of rhetoric nature that has Indian context. Have we
ever paused to wonder over the fact that the concept
of aesthetics the way we know today and get rightly -
but overly - concerned about, came in its entirety to
us from the West? And yet practically everybody knows
that there does exist in India's traditional
philosophy a concept that is an equivalent to that of
aesthetics.

Just like modern design (mark the adjective modern)
the ancient word as well as the concept traveled to us
from the West. However this is not the time to get
into the ritual of invoking the hoary treatise
authored by Sage Bharat. Instead, it would be more
fruitful to refer directly back to the Greeks of the
classical times who in the first place thought up the
concept and also the definition. If that be the case,
the surprisingly short definition says to the effect
that aesthetics is an intense sensory experience that
invariably results in a feeling of pure joy. So where
does this leave us? I think here the most operative
word is 'joy'; worth noticing and building upon.

If at all there is an aesthetic dimension to a
designer's work that must eventually be realized in
form of a solution to a problem of design (we cannot
get away from that), then according to me it should
squarely rest on the following three key attributes
that may incidentally help fulfill the 'joy'
condition.

The first attribute is workability. When one is
absolutely confident that it will eventually perform
well enough to meet every conceivable need -and
aspiration- of the ultimate user, it is the First Joy.

The second attribute is producibility. When one knows
for certain that it is entirely possible to make by
using appropriate -and available- materials and
production methods
with no adverse effect on the environment, it is the
Second Joy.

The third attribute is affordability. When one feels
assured beyond doubt that even after adding up costs
and various 'margins', all those who need it will be
able to afford it and use it, it is the Final (and the
crowning) Joy.

Stated thus, aesthetics of design may well turn out to
be a highly gratifying experience not only for the
designer but for all concerned; the designer, the
maker, the seller, the user. Because the joy derived
is not only thrice blessed, it is shared fourfold.

Answer to the question posed in the beginning of this
note: By Rasasutra, there is.

kumar vyas







__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com





Yahoo! Groups Links

Kindly suggest Colour Laser Printers for graphic
design studios.
Which can print CMYK proofs, and doesn't cost more
than Rs.1 lakh.

Also suggest A3 size flatbed scanners.

Regards,
Rizvi
9819817172




__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Thankyou for the note. While reading on aesthetics, I came across an
interesting observation that juxtaposes "anaesthetic" as something that
deadens our senses- and therefore aesthetic, as that which elevates.

-- Studio Korjan
15 Sameepam, NarayanNagar Road
Paldi, Ahmedabad 380 007, India
Tel/Fax: +91-79-2661 3188
studio@... www.korjan.com

Dear All
I am looking for contact info for T. Shanmugam, pd (1990) who I believe is
in Bangalore right now. Could you help ? Thanks.

Ajay Gupta
aep-pd (1990)

Dear Raja,

I could go on and gush endlessly over the eloquent and pithy way you
have of saying simple things that are endlessly complex. The only
idea I would like to flow over on the wings of your thoughts and
feelings is the perspective that "aesthetics" is nothing but a sum
total of individual thoughts, feelings and experiences. It should not
be an object which we put on a pedestal and consider to be something
we should all aspire to but is a sensibility that can be as diverse
as someone's understanding of the world around him or her. Trying to
define aesthetics is like trying to make a strictly defined mould for
good design. It changes organically in the frame of time and space
and that's how one should practice it.

Warm regards,
Abhishek



> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
>
> Message: 4
>    Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2005 22:33:34 +0530 (IST)
>    From: "Raja Mohanty" <rajam@...>
> Subject: thoughts, feelings and aesthetics
>
> Stautory Warning: This is a prose piece. Proceed at your own Risk :)
>
> Was reflecting on thought and feeling- and wish to add some notes...
>
> Would like to refer in passing to a book I have never read..."Men
> are from
> Mars Women are from Venus" but refer to it here, to evoke its powerful
> iconic title. Also refer to two well known theories on the
> behaviour of
> light- one that says that it behaves like a wave; the other that it
> behaves as particles do. Now, Fritjof Capra, does this kind of a
> trick,
> quite often, bringing together dis-similar disciplines, and perhaps
> should
> acknowledge his technique in passing.
>
> It strikes me, and I almost feel triumphant like making some original
> discovery that thought and feeling are two entirely different
> things- and
> it is not just some linguistic difference.(The author of the book
> on M/W/V
> and Mars says the same thing, quite matter of factly)
>
>
> Now thought can seek to understand feeling, and in fact can
> understand the
> parameters that make up feeling extremely well- just as a man might
> think
> that he understands a woman (regret the use of the stereotype
> should it
> cause offence) but thought can never feel-
>
> That is to say, that a computer scientists might succeed in making a
> computer appear like it emotes- something akin to the chinese room
> example- but surely that does not mean that the computer is actually
> emoting.
> (I am aware that I am stating an opinion- and the word "surely" is not
> accepted as "proof")- and perhaps my opinion shows my bias towards
> feelings over thoughts, but that is not important to the idea explored
> here.
>
>
> Sandy (hang in for a second :) in case you have not yet deleted this!)
>
> So, instead of beating around the bush let me get to the point- now
> that
> is the catch- Feeling is patient, slow, careful, nurturing, gentle-
> and
> thought wants to get to the point and cut to the chase as quickly as
> possible- No matter how hard I want I cannot fold a plastic bag as
> neatly
> as my wife- Thought is relentless, like the mind which is full of
> them.
> And a clarity of thought can understand a good many things but it
> cannot
> feel.
>
> Now the folly is to claim superiority, of thought over feeling; or of
> feeling over thought- for thought leads to compassion and feeling also
> leads to compassion. And aesthetics should never forget that it is a
> theory of beauty and a theory of something is not the thing- just as
> Sontag, reminds that a photograph is not the thing photographed;
> Picasso
> reminds us that art is not the truth; but an illusion that points
> to the
> truth- just as Bhandari reminds us that design is not the truth-
> life is!
>
> Regards
> Raja
> VC 1990
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
>
> Message: 5
>    Date: Sun, 2 Oct 2005 00:11:20 -0700 (PDT)
>    From: Ajay Kumar <ajoooy@...>
> Subject: Re: Indian rendering experts needed
>
> Dear all
>
> I see the name
> ((Deborani Duttagupta IDC 91-930))in the mail.
>
>
>
> Can someone help me get her email ID??
>
>
>
> Ajay
>
> IDC 91-93
>
> ajay@...
>
>
>
>
> Sudhir Sharma <sudhirelephant@...> wrote:
> forwarding without obligations:
>
> Hi Sudhir,
>
> A friend of mine Chhaya Bhanti who works for a New
> York based design firm had this particular
> requirement. I was wondering whether we can put it
> across to this design forum?
>
>
> The following are the details:
>
> A New York based design firm is looking for
> exceptionally good architectural renderers who can
> render images in extreme photorealistic effects. Work
> will be collaborated online. Please send samples of
> your work to:
>
>
> Chhaya Bhanti
> chhaya@...
>
>
> Please forward this email if you know of
> designers/architects with the above skill. For further
> details contact:
>
> Chhaya Bhanti
> chhaya@...
>
>
> Thanks Sudhir.
>
> Regards,
>
> Deborani Duttagupta
> IDC 91-93
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/
>
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> designindia-unsubscribe@...
>
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
>  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
> [This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
>
>

Dear Prof. Vyas
Thankyou for the note. While reading on aesthetics, I came across an
interesting observation that juxtaposes "anaesthetic" as something that
deadens our senses- and therefore aesthetic, as that which elevates.
Interestingly in "art creation" the designer and the maker fuse into the
one - the artist. The seller and the user, translate in present times to
the gallery and the viewer / buyer.

Also the possibility that a viewer may derive as much joy as a buyer,
suggests a wonderful possibility- that appreciation of beauty does not
require possessing it.


Dear Pudi
For ease of reading have snipped the interesting background provided by
you to the question (have retained the portions relevant to the reply)

"If so then can design move away from the the urban english
educated designer to the artisan?
Isn't english education a barrier to the skilled artisan if he has to be
contribute to the 'Process'?"

Currently prevalent entrance procedures, make it difficult for
"non-qualified" "non-english speaking" artisans from attempting entry to
most design schools. There is an attempt through an exposure to arts and
craft practices, to sensitize those who gain admission to that which is
"artisinal"; and at an individual capacity to enter into dialogue with the
non-urban. Many teachers, both at NID and IDC have been involved, through
projects in the area of crafts. To an extent the governement, NGOs and
entrepreneurs have also been doing this.

However, for craftspeople to find entry and find relevance in the design
methods in schools, as students, seems at the moment rather distant- but
certainly could bring a lot of richness to design schools.

Regards
Raja

Dear Prof. Nadkarni
Difficult question, and perhaps the following tale points in the right
direction-

http://www.sinc.sunysb.edu/Clubs/buddhism/story/angulimala.html

Regards
Raja





> raja
> how about thought and feeling of a butchur
> nadkarni
>
> Raja Mohanty <rajam@...> wrote:
> Stautory Warning: This is a prose piece. Proceed at your own Risk :)
>
> Was reflecting on thought and feeling- and wish to add some notes...
>
> Would like to refer in passing to a book I have never read..."Men are from
> Mars Women are from Venus" but refer to it here, to evoke its powerful
> iconic title. Also refer to two well known theories on the behaviour of
> light- one that says that it behaves like a wave; the other that it
> behaves as particles do. Now, Fritjof Capra, does this kind of a trick,
> quite often, bringing together dis-similar disciplines, and perhaps should
> acknowledge his technique in passing.
>
> It strikes me, and I almost feel triumphant like making some original
> discovery that thought and feeling are two entirely different things- and
> it is not just some linguistic difference.(The author of the book on M/W/V
> and Mars says the same thing, quite matter of factly)
>
>
> Now thought can seek to understand feeling, and in fact can understand the
> parameters that make up feeling extremely well- just as a man might think
> that he understands a woman (regret the use of the stereotype should it
> cause offence) but thought can never feel-
>
> That is to say, that a computer scientists might succeed in making a
> computer appear like it emotes- something akin to the chinese room
> example- but surely that does not mean that the computer is actually
> emoting.
> (I am aware that I am stating an opinion- and the word "surely" is not
> accepted as "proof")- and perhaps my opinion shows my bias towards
> feelings over thoughts, but that is not important to the idea explored
> here.
>
>
> Sandy (hang in for a second :) in case you have not yet deleted this!)
>
> So, instead of beating around the bush let me get to the point- now that
> is the catch- Feeling is patient, slow, careful, nurturing, gentle- and
> thought wants to get to the point and cut to the chase as quickly as
> possible- No matter how hard I want I cannot fold a plastic bag as neatly
> as my wife- Thought is relentless, like the mind which is full of them.
> And a clarity of thought can understand a good many things but it cannot
> feel.
>
> Now the folly is to claim superiority, of thought over feeling; or of
> feeling over thought- for thought leads to compassion and feeling also
> leads to compassion. And aesthetics should never forget that it is a
> theory of beauty and a theory of something is not the thing- just as
> Sontag, reminds that a photograph is not the thing photographed; Picasso
> reminds us that art is not the truth; but an illusion that points to the
> truth- just as Bhandari reminds us that design is not the truth- life is!
>
> Regards
> Raja
> VC 1990
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/
>
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> designindia-unsubscribe@...
>
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
>  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

Stautory Warning: This is a prose piece. Proceed at your own Risk :)

Was reflecting on thought and feeling- and wish to add some notes...

Would like to refer in passing to a book I have never read..."Men are from
Mars Women are from Venus" but refer to it here, to evoke its powerful
iconic title. Also refer to two well known theories on the behaviour of
light- one that says that it behaves like a wave; the other that it
behaves as particles do. Now, Fritjof Capra, does this kind of a trick,
quite often, bringing together dis-similar disciplines, and perhaps should
acknowledge his technique in passing.

It strikes me, and I almost feel triumphant like making some original
discovery that thought and feeling are two entirely different things- and
it is not just some linguistic difference.(The author of the book on M/W/V
and Mars says the same thing, quite matter of factly)


Now thought can seek to understand feeling, and in fact can understand the
parameters that make up feeling extremely well- just as a man might think
that he understands a woman (regret the use of the stereotype should it
cause offence) but thought can never feel-

That is to say, that a computer scientists might succeed in making a
computer appear like it emotes- something akin to the chinese room
example- but surely that does not mean that the computer is actually
emoting.
(I am aware that I am stating an opinion- and the word "surely" is not
accepted as "proof")- and perhaps my opinion shows my bias towards
feelings over thoughts, but that is not important to the idea explored
here.


Sandy (hang in for a second :) in case you have not yet deleted this!)

So, instead of beating around the bush let me get to the point- now that
is the catch- Feeling is patient, slow, careful, nurturing, gentle- and
thought wants to get to the point and cut to the chase as quickly as
possible- No matter how hard I want I cannot fold a plastic bag as neatly
as my wife- Thought is relentless, like the mind which is full of them.
And a clarity of thought can understand a good many things but it cannot
feel.

Now the folly is to claim superiority, of thought over feeling; or of
feeling over thought- for thought leads to compassion and feeling also
leads to compassion. And aesthetics should never forget that it is a
theory of beauty and a theory of something is not the thing- just as
Sontag, reminds that a photograph is not the thing photographed; Picasso
reminds us that art is not the truth; but an illusion that points to the
truth- just as Bhandari reminds us that design is not the truth- life is!

Regards
Raja
VC 1990

Hi
I am santayan sengupta, product designer, convocated 1994. currently
in kolkata working in Thoughtshop Foundation, an NGO, developing
communication tools and strategies for the social sector.
for more info on our work, you could visit our website
www.thoughtshopfoundation.org

santayan sengupta
product design, 1994
kolkata

Hope this not too late a contribution.

Is there an aesthetics of design?

Before answering the oft-asked question it would not
be a bad idea to deal with another ancillary question
of rhetoric nature that has Indian context. Have we
ever paused to wonder over the fact that the concept
of aesthetics the way we know today and get rightly –
but overly – concerned about, came in its entirety to
us from the West? And yet practically everybody knows
that there does exist in India’s traditional
philosophy a concept that is an equivalent to that of
aesthetics.

Just like modern design (mark the adjective modern)
the ancient word as well as the concept traveled to us
from the West. However this is not the time to get
into the ritual of invoking the hoary treatise
authored by Sage Bharat. Instead, it would be more
fruitful to refer directly back to the Greeks of the
classical times who in the first place thought up the
concept and also the definition. If that be the case,
the surprisingly short definition says to the effect
that aesthetics is an intense sensory experience that
invariably results in a feeling of pure joy. So where
does this leave us? I think here the most operative
word is ‘joy’; worth noticing and building upon.

If at all there is an aesthetic dimension to a
designer’s work that must eventually be realized in
form of a solution to a problem of design (we cannot
get away from that), then according to me it should
squarely rest on the following three key attributes
that may incidentally help fulfill the ‘joy’
condition.

The first attribute is workability. When one is
absolutely confident that it will eventually perform
well enough to meet every conceivable need –and
aspiration- of the ultimate user, it is the First Joy.

The second attribute is producibility. When one knows
for certain that it is entirely possible to make by
using appropriate –and available- materials and
production methods
with no adverse effect on the environment, it is the
Second Joy.

The third attribute is affordability. When one feels
assured beyond doubt that even after adding up costs
and various ‘margins’, all those who need it will be
able to afford it and use it, it is the Final (and the
crowning) Joy.

Stated thus, aesthetics of design may well turn out to
be a highly gratifying experience not only for the
designer but for all concerned; the designer, the
maker, the seller, the user. Because the joy derived
is not only thrice blessed, it is shared fourfold.

Answer to the question posed in the beginning of this
note: By Rasasutra, there is.

kumar vyas







__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

Can someone help me get her email ID??

Ajay

IDC 91-93

ajay@...

forwarding without obligations:

Hi Sudhir,

A friend of mine Chhaya Bhanti who works for a New
York based design firm had this particular
requirement. I was wondering whether we can put it
across to this design forum?


The following are the details:

A New York based design firm is looking for
exceptionally good architectural renderers who can
render images in extreme photorealistic effects. Work
will be collaborated online. Please send samples of
your work to:


Chhaya Bhanti
chhaya@...


Please forward this email if you know of
designers/architects with the above skill. For further
details contact:

Chhaya Bhanti
chhaya@...


Thanks Sudhir.

Regards,

Deborani Duttagupta
IDC 91-93

Stautory Warning: This is a prose piece. Proceed at your own Risk :)

Was reflecting on thought and feeling- and wish to add some notes...

Would like to refer in passing to a book I have never read..."Men are from
Mars Women are from Venus" but refer to it here, to evoke its powerful
iconic title. Also refer to two well known theories on the behaviour of
light- one that says that it behaves like a wave; the other that it
behaves as particles do. Now, Fritjof Capra, does this kind of a trick,
quite often, bringing together dis-similar disciplines, and perhaps should
acknowledge his technique in passing.

It strikes me, and I almost feel triumphant like making some original
discovery that thought and feeling are two entirely different things- and
it is not just some linguistic difference.(The author of the book on M/W/V
and Mars says the same thing, quite matter of factly)


Now thought can seek to understand feeling, and in fact can understand the
parameters that make up feeling extremely well- just as a man might think
that he understands a woman (regret the use of the stereotype should it
cause offence) but thought can never feel-

That is to say, that a computer scientists might succeed in making a
computer appear like it emotes- something akin to the chinese room
example- but surely that does not mean that the computer is actually
emoting.
(I am aware that I am stating an opinion- and the word "surely" is not
accepted as "proof")- and perhaps my opinion shows my bias towards
feelings over thoughts, but that is not important to the idea explored
here.


Sandy (hang in for a second :) in case you have not yet deleted this!)

So, instead of beating around the bush let me get to the point- now that
is the catch- Feeling is patient, slow, careful, nurturing, gentle- and
thought wants to get to the point and cut to the chase as quickly as
possible- No matter how hard I want I cannot fold a plastic bag as neatly
as my wife- Thought is relentless, like the mind which is full of them.
And a clarity of thought can understand a good many things but it cannot
feel.

Now the folly is to claim superiority, of thought over feeling; or of
feeling over thought- for thought leads to compassion and feeling also
leads to compassion. And aesthetics should never forget that it is a
theory of beauty and a theory of something is not the thing- just as
Sontag, reminds that a photograph is not the thing photographed; Picasso
reminds us that art is not the truth; but an illusion that points to the
truth- just as Bhandari reminds us that design is not the truth- life is!

Regards
Raja
VC 1990

Hello everyone,

I was at NID from 1989-1995, and specialised in Furniture Design. Post NID
days, I have been based in Calcutta, and have been freelancing, except from
a 3 year stint at my dad's computer firm. I mostly work with web design and
maps.

Being crazy about trains, I have just brought out (designed and published)
The Great Indian Railway Atlas [ http://indianrailstuff.com/atlas ], and am
planning a book on Indian railway locomotives.

I am also looking to work on other cartography projects.

Cheers
Samit Roychoudhury

  ...........................................................
The Great Indian Railway Atlas -
Buy online at www.indianrailstuff.com

hello,

my name is rahul dev. i am 99 batch.. just graduated
from exhibition design, NID... now planning to go to
delhi for job.

thanks! sudhir, for taking me as a member of the
group.

rahul.





__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

I would like to point out something that might put a smile on some of you who are interested in working with international companies. Being a part of the company that works with a lot of companies from around the world, I would say that there is an increased awareness about India, Indian market and Indian intelligence in companies around the world. I would like to share my general observations, some of them not so positive and some very optimistic from the perspective of future opportunities.

Though some of the celebrated technology companies from India have in the recent years contributed to branding India as a destination for low-wage back end labor market, the future seems different to my eyes. I honestly do not take great pride in the fact that we are perceived as the labor of the information age. A lot of people became millionnaires in the U.S.A. many decades ago when they exploited asian labor to lay the railway lines in the U.S.. Similarly a lot of people have recently become richer by providing cheap Indian labor for laying the digital infrastructure of the information age. Though this may get some people excited, I do not see this opportunity to be any different from the  opportunity in late sixties where a lot of people went to the Gulf countries to gain instant wealth, lived in squaller, compromised their  lifestyle, to build palatial homes back home. With time, the wages began to go down and the gold rush seem to have ebbed.

On the other hand, there is a silent revolution going on under the radar. People of Indian origin are getting the opportunity to participate in leading edge ventures around the world in more innovative ways. Some of them have even proved to be great innovators-entrepreneurs. At the same time, media is beginning to pay attention to the fact that China is quietly carving out a position of strength for itself (e.g. Purchase of IBM computers by Lenovo). There is always a lurking hesitation in the minds of democratic nations around the world about long term opportunities in China due to China's political structure. China has emerged as the near term threat to developed nation's hegemony over global markets. On the other hand India appears to be perceived as the next in line to compete with the more developed world, both due to its low cost economy and a strong engineering and management talent. Once Indian workforce sheds its traditional subservient attitude towards the developed nations, and sets itself the goals of collaborating and competing vs. serving the established players in the world market, we will have nothing to stop us. We have offered our services to clients who do not even speak English. But some of them have established brands and market shares that American and European companies find hard to compete with. I see a role for designers to participate in the emerging "Power of Innovation" in India.

The key to long term success is in establishing the spirit of innovation,  creativity, and entrepreneurship  in the minds of our people. The need of the hour  is to remove the shackles that limit our expression and courage to see eye to eye with other players around the world. If some of you have seen the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" Toula Portokalos's brother Nick  tells her, "Don't let your past dictate who you are, but let it be part of who you will become." Let us not consume our present with issues of the past.  Let us search for opportunities that take us to a future where we will  compete and establish few areas of competence where Indian talent, Indian products and Indian brands can compete in global markets. 

Over the next few years you will see a lot of companies from around the world seeking your collaboration, so that they gain a presence in the Indian market. Let us use this opportunity to learn to work in Global teams and then use that experience to bring the best to our own people and to compete with those in other parts of the world. In this process, your strength would be the knowledge of the Indian market and a design expression that is appropriate to Indian life.

Thanks

Uday

a lot of products developed for other markets find their way into the Indian market

On Sep 30, 2005, at 6:39 AM, Anusha wrote:

Dear Sanjit,

 

I think India has been ready more than ever for creative sourcing for a while now.

Textiles, graphics, product, ceramics,  furniture, lighting, apparels, interactive media, Animation, Video, exhibition design are the specific avenues of design (I am sure there are more) and we have the portfolio within a lot of us, all ready to be pounced upon.

The key is to tap into the right designer, its like finding the perfect doctor for a cure.

Some of them have created works much much better than their contemporaries abroad!

I can personally give you a list of at least 100 people here in india whose work can stun you beyond belief!

 

The one reason why people from other countries would be a little unsure is because they don't really get to see much of it. We don't have that many patrons of Design in India. and honestly clients doesn't have that much belief or the knowledge in spending time or money on a design.

Because good design costs money and/or time. And with the exceptions of perhaps 10 clients in India, no one wants to pay for designs. Infact now corporates have hired people who are professional negotiators. Their  job is to bring ones price down and crunch time schedules.

With the hope of getting more opportunites, building portfolios and ofcourse the bread and the butter, many designers buckle and deliver. But that hope rarely sees the light of day.

Besides there are many small shop so called " jackalistic designers"  ever ready to deliver something cheap and make do for a lesser price and faster deliveries.

 

Also once they have found somebody, the client don't really believe in exploring other talents because they are getting it all from that one person who may or may not be talented enough to deliver, considering the stuff that we see in everyday life is just very tacky or just simply copied from an international designer and the clients turn a blind eye or don't know otherwise. Not one client besides maybe 10 in India are patrons of design and are clearly standing out because of the investment they made in talented designers but those are far and few. or lets just say its still a profession whose services will be used by the very Elite and aware about their expertise. Large companies in India including Multinationals who can very very easily patronise designers and their work are just a little too happy copying from International Magazines and website images. or trying to convince a designer to recycle things from their existing non-published or non- released portfolio.  Its after all dhanda!

 

So a lot of designers are trying to tap into international assignents, but that takes a lot more of extra effort than a designer who is already abroad and has access to interested clients there.

Within india Some of us have been fortunate. Some of us not.

I am not saying that all designers are not doing well. A lot of us are. and do command an authority on our field of expertise. But the tragedy is that just too many don't get what they deserve. or continuously make the wrong choices and deliver quick and tacky solutions for money which makes all clients suspicious about all DESIGNERS per say. But thats just another story which we can get into later.

The expertise that a good and passionate designer can provide is something to cherish and with what brands/clients can leap out of the ordinary.

Another thing which most Indian designers make the mistake of is clouting their talent with verbosity, words which clients have never heard and sentence constructions which would make Keats cringe, while making a presentation or pitching to an Indian client more specifically.

International clients feel that if presented like that, a designer is in all probablity full of gas.

Presentations and words should be kept simple and to the point. The work will speak for itself.

They find most designers from many design and art colleges unapproachable for the same reason. They speak in languages clients don't understand, hoping to impress a client but it often backfires. And there.. you've lost a client who could have been interested because you were a "Talented Designer". And then you have lost a client who you could have most certainly helped grow.

Most designers lack the ability to market ourselves. Creative Designers should be the best marketeers. We think simply. Why can't we present simply? 

 

I have worked with a few clients from other countries and they state their briefs and talk the talks which are crisp and simple. A similiar response is what they appreciate.

And in my experience all clients are happier meeting creative people than marketing people for designers. They dont care for much for people like their own. They bring nothing new to the table.

 

Ironically, some designers who have worked with Interational clients have felt exploited. Clients come to India hoping to get a design a million times cheaper than what they would pay their own. Ofcourse we would be cheaper by economy standards, than a very talented Dutch or British Designer but it can and does often border on exploitation. So it is in a way a catch 22 situation. But we all have to take our risks and make our choices.

 

I think one idea would be to organise a Traveling Indian designers Exhbition which would showcase our works on display.

Any Exhibition done like this within India would be copied the next day and would be available in Markets on day three.The designer and the spirit of the design is lost. So it would have to be an international travelling exhibition.

 

However there is lot more comfortable mediocrity in india, than the most talented people. So a client abroad has to be very sure who he goes to for a job. There are many many very talented designers. One should just know who to go to for that perfect design solution. And designers in India have to pull up their socks and realise what they are capable of instead of being exploited and used as just another supplier. Its a specialists job.Do it like one. and then you'll be treated like one.

 

So I hope I have helped answer your query.

 

Anusha Yadav

Graphic and Retail Design

Lintas India 

Mumbai

 

 

 

 

 

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