hello,

my name is rahul dev. i am 99 batch.. just graduated
from exhibition design, NID... now planning to go to
delhi for job.

thanks! sudhir, for taking me as a member of the
group.

rahul.





__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

I would like to point out something that might put a smile on some of you who are interested in working with international companies. Being a part of the company that works with a lot of companies from around the world, I would say that there is an increased awareness about India, Indian market and Indian intelligence in companies around the world. I would like to share my general observations, some of them not so positive and some very optimistic from the perspective of future opportunities.

Though some of the celebrated technology companies from India have in the recent years contributed to branding India as a destination for low-wage back end labor market, the future seems different to my eyes. I honestly do not take great pride in the fact that we are perceived as the labor of the information age. A lot of people became millionnaires in the U.S.A. many decades ago when they exploited asian labor to lay the railway lines in the U.S.. Similarly a lot of people have recently become richer by providing cheap Indian labor for laying the digital infrastructure of the information age. Though this may get some people excited, I do not see this opportunity to be any different from the  opportunity in late sixties where a lot of people went to the Gulf countries to gain instant wealth, lived in squaller, compromised their  lifestyle, to build palatial homes back home. With time, the wages began to go down and the gold rush seem to have ebbed.

On the other hand, there is a silent revolution going on under the radar. People of Indian origin are getting the opportunity to participate in leading edge ventures around the world in more innovative ways. Some of them have even proved to be great innovators-entrepreneurs. At the same time, media is beginning to pay attention to the fact that China is quietly carving out a position of strength for itself (e.g. Purchase of IBM computers by Lenovo). There is always a lurking hesitation in the minds of democratic nations around the world about long term opportunities in China due to China's political structure. China has emerged as the near term threat to developed nation's hegemony over global markets. On the other hand India appears to be perceived as the next in line to compete with the more developed world, both due to its low cost economy and a strong engineering and management talent. Once Indian workforce sheds its traditional subservient attitude towards the developed nations, and sets itself the goals of collaborating and competing vs. serving the established players in the world market, we will have nothing to stop us. We have offered our services to clients who do not even speak English. But some of them have established brands and market shares that American and European companies find hard to compete with. I see a role for designers to participate in the emerging "Power of Innovation" in India.

The key to long term success is in establishing the spirit of innovation,  creativity, and entrepreneurship  in the minds of our people. The need of the hour  is to remove the shackles that limit our expression and courage to see eye to eye with other players around the world. If some of you have seen the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" Toula Portokalos's brother Nick  tells her, "Don't let your past dictate who you are, but let it be part of who you will become." Let us not consume our present with issues of the past.  Let us search for opportunities that take us to a future where we will  compete and establish few areas of competence where Indian talent, Indian products and Indian brands can compete in global markets. 

Over the next few years you will see a lot of companies from around the world seeking your collaboration, so that they gain a presence in the Indian market. Let us use this opportunity to learn to work in Global teams and then use that experience to bring the best to our own people and to compete with those in other parts of the world. In this process, your strength would be the knowledge of the Indian market and a design expression that is appropriate to Indian life.

Thanks

Uday

a lot of products developed for other markets find their way into the Indian market

On Sep 30, 2005, at 6:39 AM, Anusha wrote:

Dear Sanjit,

 

I think India has been ready more than ever for creative sourcing for a while now.

Textiles, graphics, product, ceramics,  furniture, lighting, apparels, interactive media, Animation, Video, exhibition design are the specific avenues of design (I am sure there are more) and we have the portfolio within a lot of us, all ready to be pounced upon.

The key is to tap into the right designer, its like finding the perfect doctor for a cure.

Some of them have created works much much better than their contemporaries abroad!

I can personally give you a list of at least 100 people here in india whose work can stun you beyond belief!

 

The one reason why people from other countries would be a little unsure is because they don't really get to see much of it. We don't have that many patrons of Design in India. and honestly clients doesn't have that much belief or the knowledge in spending time or money on a design.

Because good design costs money and/or time. And with the exceptions of perhaps 10 clients in India, no one wants to pay for designs. Infact now corporates have hired people who are professional negotiators. Their  job is to bring ones price down and crunch time schedules.

With the hope of getting more opportunites, building portfolios and ofcourse the bread and the butter, many designers buckle and deliver. But that hope rarely sees the light of day.

Besides there are many small shop so called " jackalistic designers"  ever ready to deliver something cheap and make do for a lesser price and faster deliveries.

 

Also once they have found somebody, the client don't really believe in exploring other talents because they are getting it all from that one person who may or may not be talented enough to deliver, considering the stuff that we see in everyday life is just very tacky or just simply copied from an international designer and the clients turn a blind eye or don't know otherwise. Not one client besides maybe 10 in India are patrons of design and are clearly standing out because of the investment they made in talented designers but those are far and few. or lets just say its still a profession whose services will be used by the very Elite and aware about their expertise. Large companies in India including Multinationals who can very very easily patronise designers and their work are just a little too happy copying from International Magazines and website images. or trying to convince a designer to recycle things from their existing non-published or non- released portfolio.  Its after all dhanda!

 

So a lot of designers are trying to tap into international assignents, but that takes a lot more of extra effort than a designer who is already abroad and has access to interested clients there.

Within india Some of us have been fortunate. Some of us not.

I am not saying that all designers are not doing well. A lot of us are. and do command an authority on our field of expertise. But the tragedy is that just too many don't get what they deserve. or continuously make the wrong choices and deliver quick and tacky solutions for money which makes all clients suspicious about all DESIGNERS per say. But thats just another story which we can get into later.

The expertise that a good and passionate designer can provide is something to cherish and with what brands/clients can leap out of the ordinary.

Another thing which most Indian designers make the mistake of is clouting their talent with verbosity, words which clients have never heard and sentence constructions which would make Keats cringe, while making a presentation or pitching to an Indian client more specifically.

International clients feel that if presented like that, a designer is in all probablity full of gas.

Presentations and words should be kept simple and to the point. The work will speak for itself.

They find most designers from many design and art colleges unapproachable for the same reason. They speak in languages clients don't understand, hoping to impress a client but it often backfires. And there.. you've lost a client who could have been interested because you were a "Talented Designer". And then you have lost a client who you could have most certainly helped grow.

Most designers lack the ability to market ourselves. Creative Designers should be the best marketeers. We think simply. Why can't we present simply? 

 

I have worked with a few clients from other countries and they state their briefs and talk the talks which are crisp and simple. A similiar response is what they appreciate.

And in my experience all clients are happier meeting creative people than marketing people for designers. They dont care for much for people like their own. They bring nothing new to the table.

 

Ironically, some designers who have worked with Interational clients have felt exploited. Clients come to India hoping to get a design a million times cheaper than what they would pay their own. Ofcourse we would be cheaper by economy standards, than a very talented Dutch or British Designer but it can and does often border on exploitation. So it is in a way a catch 22 situation. But we all have to take our risks and make our choices.

 

I think one idea would be to organise a Traveling Indian designers Exhbition which would showcase our works on display.

Any Exhibition done like this within India would be copied the next day and would be available in Markets on day three.The designer and the spirit of the design is lost. So it would have to be an international travelling exhibition.

 

However there is lot more comfortable mediocrity in india, than the most talented people. So a client abroad has to be very sure who he goes to for a job. There are many many very talented designers. One should just know who to go to for that perfect design solution. And designers in India have to pull up their socks and realise what they are capable of instead of being exploited and used as just another supplier. Its a specialists job.Do it like one. and then you'll be treated like one.

 

So I hope I have helped answer your query.

 

Anusha Yadav

Graphic and Retail Design

Lintas India 

Mumbai

 

 

 

 

 

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Hello everyone

This is Nidhi Dang....I am a Fashion Design and Information Technology
(2001-2005) graduate from NIFT, New Delhi.I did my diploma project
with Shades of India ,Noida.I am joinin the designindia group from
today..and i hope to keep myself updated.
Thanks to Mr Sudhir Sharma for makin me a member of the group.



Nidhi Dang

Thank you Uday,

that sort of confirms whats happening around.
Last week in Frankfurt I read a speech by the Daimler Chrysler
chairman- titled "Chinese are coming"...the context was Euro
motors..and chinese "windlander"...chinese enterprise to make cars and
sell them in europe at 1/3rd the price. He said he is not worried
about the chinese wave...it is something we could use and earn
from..the quality and service from chinese will remain a joke..cause
they are copying american and europeans....He said...i am worried
about the wave which is due to come after chinese....the Indian
wave...because they have knowledge and they are good..they already do
what we sell....

And it is a kick if you know- u get a project because you are an
Indian and get paid the same as an American design office would.

regards
Sudhir Sharma
1983 NID
Elephant Design




--- In designindia@..., Uday Dandavate <uday@s...> wrote:
> I would like to point out something that might put a smile on some
of
> you who are interested in working with international companies.
Being
> a part of the company that works with a lot of companies from
around
> the world, I would say .....

hi Ramu,
wonder whether you would send me the attachment on my id, i get
digest form and attachments don't come to me. unless you're
uploading it.in which case I'll see it there.

best
Deepankar

--- In designindia@..., "Ramu Dhara" <dharar@n...>
wrote:
> I had attached a file earlier on the author below with this note
but I presume this listserv has file distribution permissions locked
down
> Sudhir let me know if i can resend it or as the list owner you
have the sitting on the server waiting for your review?
> dhara
>
> >>> Ramu Dhara 09/29/05 12:45 PM >>>
> wow
> Ranjan, If you will allow me some gentle humour (qualifier: this
is not criticism given that e-language often leads to that) ,
your "creative writing" style as in para two suggests that you also
have in addtion to your academic thinking yet another unexplored
direction--an unwritten fiction or creative work perhaps?..:))
>
> As an aside that contributes to all the below discussion, I am
attaching a very interesting academic article called "The New
Illiteracy" by Jessica Helfland a academic and critic.
>
> If the attachment does not come through the listserv
> Its from her book
> Screen: Essays in Graphic Design, New Media and Visual Culture
> And no, her book barely contains any pictures--so folks will have
to read 6 pages (something the kids in school here barely do anymore
in these parts where i live!) and she later refers to typography and
language in the email age
>
> And, writing style can be both individualistic and cultural.
Anyone ever read Germans philoshophers translated into English--
sentences last a page! Go figure!
>
> Ramu Dhara
> 87 ED something...:))
>
>
snip snip

forwarding without obligations:

Hi Sudhir,

A friend of mine Chhaya Bhanti who works for a New
York based design firm had this particular
requirement. I was wondering whether we can put it
across to this design forum?


The following are the details:

A New York based design firm is looking for
exceptionally good architectural renderers who can
render images in extreme photorealistic effects. Work
will be collaborated online. Please send samples of
your work to:


Chhaya Bhanti
chhaya@...


Please forward this email if you know of
designers/architects with the above skill. For further
details contact:

Chhaya Bhanti
chhaya@...


Thanks Sudhir.

Regards,

Deborani Duttagupta
IDC 91-93

Dear Dhara,

The attachements are distributed to members along with the
message.Attachment distribution is not locked. They are not stored on
the group, You can upload the file in "files" and give the link in yr
message.

messages and attachements from members do not need any
approval/review  before appearing on the group.

sudhir


--- In designindia@..., "Ramu Dhara" <dharar@n...> wrote:
> I had attached a file earlier on the author below with this note but
I presume this listserv has file distribution permissions locked down
> Sudhir let me know if i can resend it or as the list owner you have
the sitting on the server waiting for your review?
> dhara
>

Dear Sanandan

First some critisism. Please truncate your message tails when you have
already quoted the relevant portion to make your point. Other readers ,
especially those with "Digest mode settings" will find the whole matter
very exasperating to see the same long texts again and again
(especially if it is from me). This is why when I make a long post I
mention it at the beginning so that those in a hurry can skip it
altogether.

Now some apologies. Sorry, this is how I think. In long sentences (and
flashing mental images in quick motion, rapid fire and sometimes
unmentionable...) and in an almost breathless manner and it is
difficult to change, although I do try, when I have the time to revisit
texts and insert comas and full stops, wherever possible. I normally
leave it to my copy editors the task of doing this but sometimes they
change the meaning (they have not seen my pictures, in my head, some
visions can not be shared fully), and I do not like it at all, the end
result, it is easier to read but it is not mine.....

I wonder if you have read Bucky Fuller recently? Some of his great
texts are "unreadable" by normal humans and those steeped in the Queens
English language. He has invented his own language and it was fondly
called "Fulleresque" or something like that. Some of his sentences are
five pages long, some longer. Ofcourse this does not need to become an
excuse for my doing so, but habits die hard, and thought and words (and
images) desert you when you try to get it right the first time out, so
some of you will have to help with the translation or else there will
be no more texts (or imagination), all frozen, and this may also be the
case with models and materials, we need to as designers explore,
express and then refine. We need our materials!! I do admire those who
can write poetry or do art, spontaneously, almost digitally, but it is
long winded prose for me and some of it is prosaic indeed. Sorry.

Now some clarifications.
My translation of the text quoted below is as follows:
>  >>
>  Some Product Designers however have strayed towards the path of direct
>  manipulation and the results that we have seen has been quite
> remarkable but
>  this is not encouraged as a common course in the discipline since the
>  emphasis is on objects with complex technology or multitude of parts
> where
>  the separation of concept and execution in a segmented an clearly
> demarcated
>  process makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in
> the form
>  of styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of
> engineers
>  trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image
> and
>  specification target that is set before them.
>  >>

Some product designers (of complex products) have discovered the art of
direct material manipulation. (and the joy of it) They are showing
great signs of success. (the Dyson way, the IDEO way, ......and the NID
way??) However in our education settings this is not encouraged now
since it seems that the industry works in another way, with an army of
engineers, all trying to make sense of a sketch by a cat "designer."
(cool designer from the rendering dept in Italy, in France or in
Korea?). Form is frozen first, by marketing and sales, (and top
management) and the rest is compromised by the R & D team. ( the term
used is optimised), this is passed off as team work, all in the spirit
of good design. From "goal setting" to "creative delivery" is a
seamless path, but for the benefit of good administration (and
departmental credits) we need to divide and rule (perhaps the
administrator benefits, albeit , in the short term, so who cares about
the bigger goals anyway). Segmented workflows are good for fault
finding and post facto analysis, but rarely produce great design
results. Check out the flash presentation at
<http://www.nextd.org/03/index.html> click on NextD Mindscapes 1.0 to
see their slide show. [Launch NextD Mindscape 1.0 (45K, Flash 5
required)] {...they make a comparison between the attributes of
Traditional Design and NextD}

Product design is a complex business and it cannot be done in a neatly
regimented manner (always), but we do need to bring some discipline to
the process and we also need to explore a great deal (in messy teams)
before the answers show up, and some of the explorations may seem long
winded, but the ends do justify the means. Can this be done entirely by
digital means? I do not know. Handling materials and real explorations
have always worked (so far, from the Upper Paleolithic age till today,
remember the origin of design, thumb meets palm for the first time in a
grip to hold and manipulate a tool and the human brain suddenly grows
multi-fold in size, nobody knows why, but we can wager a guess, the
first product is born, is it a hammer or a spear, a stick or a stone,
the very first tool, mans first invention, stick with a stone attached,
bravo? mans first design?), but marketing wants it yesterday, so do you
have an alternate answer? (97 words, sorry)

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
29 September 2005 at 8.30 pm IST


Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Applications
Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India

Tel: (off) 91 79 26639692 ext 1090
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
Fax: 91 79 26605242

email: ranjanmp@...
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/

On 29-Sep-05, at 4:22 AM, sandy wrote:

> Dear Ranjan,
>  All your writings are very well thought, informative and thorough in
> nature
>  But I have a humble request to make... Some times your sentences are
> soooooo
>  long that I stop enjoying the reading them, despite having a strong
> urge to
>  read and grow along.
>  For example it took me at least five readings to understand what you
> are
>  implying in the following sentence, and I am still not sure if I got
> you
>  right. To be precise, it has 109 words, without even one comma
> separation.
>  Don't get me wrong. I guess there are a lot of us who what to really
>  understand what you are trying to say, and get lost in the never
> ending maze
>  of words.
>  So it would be great if you can make your sentences small and easily
>  understandable. Also some times it would be nice if you can write "in
> a
>  nutshell" type of a sentence at the end or beginning of a stanza, to
>  facilitate the understanding of a quick reader.
>  Thanks and regards
>  Sandy
>  Sanandan Sudhir
>  AEPPD 2001
>  GEHC, Bangalore 560066
>  +9198450-20420
>  Ranjan Wrote (in the mail below..)
>  >>
>  Some Product Designers however have strayed towards the path of direct
>  manipulation and the results that we have seen has been quite
> remarkable but
>  this is not encouraged as a common course in the discipline since the
>  emphasis is on objects with complex technology or multitude of parts
> where
>  the separation of concept and execution in a segmented an clearly
> demarcated
>  process makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in
> the form
>  of styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of
> engineers
>  trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image
> and
>  specification target that is set before them.
>  >>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: designindia@...
> [mailto:designindia@...]
>  On Behalf Of M P Ranjan
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:56 PM
>  To: Deepankar Bhattacharyya; designindia@...
>  Cc: M P Ranjan
>  Subject: Re: [designindia] Re: aesthetics in design
>
>  Dear Deepankar (Long post and quoted paper below)
>
>  Alas, the demise of the NID workshop is an alarming disaster story in
>  my humble opinion,  but it is however true, although I hope that it is
>  a temporary condition and it will eventually be restored to a level
>  that is fitting for the conduct of a high level of creative design
>  education in all our design disciplines. Like all other things we may
>  need to swing too far the other way before we realise what we are
>  missing and we will (hopefully) set our course right and swing back,
> as
>  in navigation through choppy waters, if I may use the analogy of
>  sailing through uncharted waters, towards a distant goal, a beacon of
>  light.

>  SNIP SNIP (Truncated to save other readers the burden of wading
> through the same matter).....

Dear Dhara

Humour is always welcome, and thank you for your thoughts, reasuring,
there is some hope in the world.

By the way you can upload files to the group site
<http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/files/> but there is no
way you can get people to go there and see it, but try anyway. Do send
me an attachment direct to my mail ID <ranjanmp@...>, thank you.

The tennis season is over in NY, how did you like our one and only Sania
Mirza? You were last heard of in NY, NY, right?

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my Mac at home
30 September 2005 at 8.05 am IST




Ramu Dhara wrote:
>
> I had attached a file earlier on the author below with this note but I
> presume this listserv has file distribution permissions locked down
> Sudhir let me know if i can resend it or as the list owner you have
> the sitting on the server waiting for your review?
> dhara
>
> >>> Ramu Dhara 09/29/05 12:45 PM >>>
> wow
> Ranjan, If you will allow me some gentle humour (qualifier: this is
> not criticism given that e-language often leads to that) , your
> "creative writing" style as in para two suggests that you also have in
> addtion to your academic thinking yet another unexplored direction--an
> unwritten fiction or creative work perhaps?..:))
>
> As an aside that contributes to all the below discussion, I am
> attaching a very interesting academic article called "The New
> Illiteracy" by Jessica Helfland a academic and critic.
>
> If the attachment does not come through the listserv
> Its from her book
> Screen: Essays in Graphic Design, New Media and Visual Culture
> And no, her book barely contains any pictures--so folks will have to
> read 6 pages (something the kids in school here barely do anymore in
> these parts where i live!) and she later refers to typography and
> language in the email age
>
> And, writing style can be both individualistic and cultural.  Anyone
> ever read Germans philoshophers translated into English--sentences
> last a page! Go figure!
>
> Ramu Dhara
> 87 ED something...:))
>
> >>> ranjanmp@... 09/29/05 11:01 AM >>>
> Dear Sanandan
>
> First some critisism. Please truncate your message tails when you have
>
> already quoted the relevant portion to make your point. Other readers
> ,
> especially those with "Digest mode settings" will find the whole
> matter

SNIP SNIP

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I had attached a file earlier on the author below with this note but I presume
this listserv has file distribution permissions locked down
Sudhir let me know if i can resend it or as the list owner you have the sitting
on the server waiting for your review?
dhara

>>> Ramu Dhara 09/29/05 12:45 PM >>>
wow
Ranjan, If you will allow me some gentle humour (qualifier: this is not
criticism given that e-language often leads to that) , your "creative writing"
style as in para two suggests that you also have in addtion to your academic
thinking yet another unexplored direction--an unwritten fiction or creative work
perhaps?..:))

As an aside that contributes to all the below discussion, I am attaching a very
interesting academic article called "The New Illiteracy" by Jessica Helfland a
academic and critic.

If the attachment does not come through the listserv
Its from her book
Screen: Essays in Graphic Design, New Media and Visual Culture
And no, her book barely contains any pictures--so folks will have to read 6
pages (something the kids in school here barely do anymore in these parts where
i live!) and she later refers to typography and language in the email age

And, writing style can be both individualistic and cultural.  Anyone ever read
Germans philoshophers translated into English--sentences last a page! Go figure!

Ramu Dhara
87 ED something...:))

>>> ranjanmp@... 09/29/05 11:01 AM >>>
Dear Sanandan

First some critisism. Please truncate your message tails when you have
already quoted the relevant portion to make your point. Other readers ,
especially those with "Digest mode settings" will find the whole matter
very exasperating to see the same long texts again and again
(especially if it is from me). This is why when I make a long post I
mention it at the beginning so that those in a hurry can skip it
altogether.

Now some apologies. Sorry, this is how I think. In long sentences (and
flashing mental images in quick motion, rapid fire and sometimes
unmentionable...) and in an almost breathless manner and it is
difficult to change, although I do try, when I have the time to revisit
texts and insert comas and full stops, wherever possible. I normally
leave it to my copy editors the task of doing this but sometimes they
change the meaning (they have not seen my pictures, in my head, some
visions can not be shared fully), and I do not like it at all, the end
result, it is easier to read but it is not mine.....

I wonder if you have read Bucky Fuller recently? Some of his great
texts are "unreadable" by normal humans and those steeped in the Queens
English language. He has invented his own language and it was fondly
called "Fulleresque" or something like that. Some of his sentences are
five pages long, some longer. Ofcourse this does not need to become an
excuse for my doing so, but habits die hard, and thought and words (and
images) desert you when you try to get it right the first time out, so
some of you will have to help with the translation or else there will
be no more texts (or imagination), all frozen, and this may also be the
case with models and materials, we need to as designers explore,
express and then refine. We need our materials!! I do admire those who
can write poetry or do art, spontaneously, almost digitally, but it is
long winded prose for me and some of it is prosaic indeed. Sorry.

Now some clarifications.
My translation of the text quoted below is as follows:
>  >>
>  Some Product Designers however have strayed towards the path of direct
>  manipulation and the results that we have seen has been quite
> remarkable but
>  this is not encouraged as a common course in the discipline since the
>  emphasis is on objects with complex technology or multitude of parts
> where
>  the separation of concept and execution in a segmented an clearly
> demarcated
>  process makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in
> the form
>  of styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of
> engineers
>  trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image
> and
>  specification target that is set before them.
>  >>

Some product designers (of complex products) have discovered the art of
direct material manipulation. (and the joy of it) They are showing
great signs of success. (the Dyson way, the IDEO way, ......and the NID
way??) However in our education settings this is not encouraged now
since it seems that the industry works in another way, with an army of
engineers, all trying to make sense of a sketch by a cat "designer."
(cool designer from the rendering dept in Italy, in France or in
Korea?). Form is frozen first, by marketing and sales, (and top
management) and the rest is compromised by the R & D team. ( the term
used is optimised), this is passed off as team work, all in the spirit
of good design. From "goal setting" to "creative delivery" is a
seamless path, but for the benefit of good administration (and
departmental credits) we need to divide and rule (perhaps the
administrator benefits, albeit , in the short term, so who cares about
the bigger goals anyway). Segmented workflows are good for fault
finding and post facto analysis, but rarely produce great design
results. Check out the flash presentation at
<http://www.nextd.org/03/index.html> click on NextD Mindscapes 1.0 to
see their slide show. [Launch NextD Mindscape 1.0 (45K, Flash 5
required)] {...they make a comparison between the attributes of
Traditional Design and NextD}

Product design is a complex business and it cannot be done in a neatly
regimented manner (always), but we do need to bring some discipline to
the process and we also need to explore a great deal (in messy teams)
before the answers show up, and some of the explorations may seem long
winded, but the ends do justify the means. Can this be done entirely by
digital means? I do not know. Handling materials and real explorations
have always worked (so far, from the Upper Paleolithic age till today,
remember the origin of design, thumb meets palm for the first time in a
grip to hold and manipulate a tool and the human brain suddenly grows
multi-fold in size, nobody knows why, but we can wager a guess, the
first product is born, is it a hammer or a spear, a stick or a stone,
the very first tool, mans first invention, stick with a stone attached,
bravo? mans first design?), but marketing wants it yesterday, so do you
have an alternate answer? (97 words, sorry)

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
29 September 2005 at 8.30 pm IST


Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Applications
Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India

Tel: (off) 91 79 26639692 ext 1090
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
Fax: 91 79 26605242

email: ranjanmp@...
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/

On 29-Sep-05, at 4:22 AM, sandy wrote:

> Dear Ranjan,
>  All your writings are very well thought, informative and thorough in
> nature
>  But I have a humble request to make... Some times your sentences are
> soooooo
>  long that I stop enjoying the reading them, despite having a strong
> urge to
>  read and grow along.
>  For example it took me at least five readings to understand what you
> are
>  implying in the following sentence, and I am still not sure if I got
> you
>  right. To be precise, it has 109 words, without even one comma
> separation.
>  Don't get me wrong. I guess there are a lot of us who what to really
>  understand what you are trying to say, and get lost in the never
> ending maze
>  of words.
>  So it would be great if you can make your sentences small and easily
>  understandable. Also some times it would be nice if you can write "in
> a
>  nutshell" type of a sentence at the end or beginning of a stanza, to
>  facilitate the understanding of a quick reader.
>  Thanks and regards
>  Sandy
>  Sanandan Sudhir
>  AEPPD 2001
>  GEHC, Bangalore 560066
>  +9198450-20420
>  Ranjan Wrote (in the mail below..)
>  >>
>  Some Product Designers however have strayed towards the path of direct
>  manipulation and the results that we have seen has been quite
> remarkable but
>  this is not encouraged as a common course in the discipline since the
>  emphasis is on objects with complex technology or multitude of parts
> where
>  the separation of concept and execution in a segmented an clearly
> demarcated
>  process makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in
> the form
>  of styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of
> engineers
>  trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image
> and
>  specification target that is set before them.
>  >>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: designindia@...
> [mailto:designindia@...]
>  On Behalf Of M P Ranjan
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:56 PM
>  To: Deepankar Bhattacharyya; designindia@...
>  Cc: M P Ranjan
>  Subject: Re: [designindia] Re: aesthetics in design
>
>  Dear Deepankar (Long post and quoted paper below)
>
>  Alas, the demise of the NID workshop is an alarming disaster story in
>  my humble opinion,  but it is however true, although I hope that it is
>  a temporary condition and it will eventually be restored to a level
>  that is fitting for the conduct of a high level of creative design
>  education in all our design disciplines. Like all other things we may
>  need to swing too far the other way before we realise what we are
>  missing and we will (hopefully) set our course right and swing back,
> as
>  in navigation through choppy waters, if I may use the analogy of
>  sailing through uncharted waters, towards a distant goal, a beacon of
>  light.

>  SNIP SNIP (Truncated to save other readers the burden of wading
> through the same matter).....





Yahoo! Groups Links

Dear Deepankar,

Well said, I agree. I also like the touch about Golf, for me it is the
fluent Ping Pong shot that skims the net and the table edge,
untouchable therefore unplayable, that thrills! Great skill that comes
from the guts, and from the mind in tune..... or should I say from the
soul..... Thank you.

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
29 September 2005 at 8.35 pm IST


Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Applications
Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India

Tel: (off) 91 79 26639692 ext 1090
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
Fax: 91 79 26605242

email: ranjanmp@...
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/

On 29-Sep-05, at 5:14 PM, Deepankar Bhattacharyya wrote:

>
>  Dear Ranjan,
>
>  I think some things canot be understood by rationalization. Our minds
>  are perhaps not equipped to measure qualitative changes -evolution in
>  quite the same way as we do quantitative ones. Many aspects of design
>  especially those that deal with subjective areas of human-product
>  reationships fall into this. Aesthetics, aspirations, fashion and
>  other product attributes are the obvious ones. Less obvious is a
>  designer's intuitive relationship with material and structure -
>  somewhat different from that of an engineer or scientist.
>
>  To give an example the first sketch of a designer for a kettle spout
>  is likely to be OK in the sense that it will pour reasonably well,
>  he/she does not really need to get to this solution via complex
>  mathematical paths to determine liquid flows and other forces at the
>  moment of the liquid leaving the container. No doubt, there are
>  refnements to be made and the calculations will come, but the designer
>  here is working with a knowledge of material, form and liquid that is
>    in an area of conciousness that in many ways is pre-rational and not
>  quite measurable or even given to verbal articulation.
>
>  Wasn't it Frank Wright who said that he asked his new aspiring
>  students to draw a bridge - he could tell whether the feel for design
>  was there if the bridge would stand without further technical inputs
>  - an intuitive grasp of balance, structure and rightness of form was
>  always there in the good ones.
>
>  This is exactly the area of a designers psyche that gets developed
>  when one works with mind/hand. Artists and craftpersons develop
>  intimacy with form and material, with technology and production
>  process so that at the moment of articulation, of 'design', it all
>  comes together in one seamless beautiful outpouring, much like the
>  feeling of perfection one feels on hitting a great golf shot.
>
>  you know it is good
>
>  regards
>
>  Deepankar Bhattacharyya
>  NID 1970-76
>
>
>  --- In designindia@..., M P Ranjan <ranjanmp@n...>
> wrote:
>  > Dear Deepankar (Long post and quoted paper below)
>  >
>  > Alas, the demise of the NID workshop is an alarming disaster story
> in
>  > my humble opinion,  but it is however true, although I hope that it
> is
>  > a temporary condition and it will eventually be restored to a level
>  > that is fitting for the conduct of a high level of creative design
>  > education in all our design disciplines. Like all other things we
> may
>  > need to swing too far the other way before we realise what we are
>  > missing and we will (hopefully) set our course right and swing
> back, as
>  > in navigation through choppy waters, if I may use the analogy of
>  > sailing through uncharted waters, towards a distant goal, a beacon
> of
>  > light.
>  >
>  snip snip

Dear Sanandan

First some critisism. Please truncate your message tails when you have
already quoted the relevant portion to make your point. Other readers ,
especially those with "Digest mode settings" will find the whole matter
very exasperating to see the same long texts again and again
(especially if it is from me). This is why when I make a long post I
mention it at the beginning so that those in a hurry can skip it
altogether.

Now some apologies. Sorry, this is how I think. In long sentences (and
flashing mental images in quick motion, rapid fire and sometimes
unmentionable...) and in an almost breathless manner and it is
difficult to change, although I do try, when I have the time to revisit
texts and insert comas and full stops, wherever possible. I normally
leave it to my copy editors the task of doing this but sometimes they
change the meaning (they have not seen my pictures, in my head, some
visions can not be shared fully), and I do not like it at all, the end
result, it is easier to read but it is not mine.....

I wonder if you have read Bucky Fuller recently? Some of his great
texts are "unreadable" by normal humans and those steeped in the Queens
English language. He has invented his own language and it was fondly
called "Fulleresque" or something like that. Some of his sentences are
five pages long, some longer. Ofcourse this does not need to become an
excuse for my doing so, but habits die hard, and thought and words (and
images) desert you when you try to get it right the first time out, so
some of you will have to help with the translation or else there will
be no more texts (or imagination), all frozen, and this may also be the
case with models and materials, we need to as designers explore,
express and then refine. We need our materials!! I do admire those who
can write poetry or do art, spontaneously, almost digitally, but it is
long winded prose for me and some of it is prosaic indeed. Sorry.

Now some clarifications.
My translation of the text quoted below is as follows:
>  >>
>  Some Product Designers however have strayed towards the path of direct
>  manipulation and the results that we have seen has been quite
> remarkable but
>  this is not encouraged as a common course in the discipline since the
>  emphasis is on objects with complex technology or multitude of parts
> where
>  the separation of concept and execution in a segmented an clearly
> demarcated
>  process makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in
> the form
>  of styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of
> engineers
>  trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image
> and
>  specification target that is set before them.
>  >>

Some product designers (of complex products) have discovered the art of
direct material manipulation. (and the joy of it) They are showing
great signs of success. (the Dyson way, the IDEO way, ......and the NID
way??) However in our education settings this is not encouraged now
since it seems that the industry works in another way, with an army of
engineers, all trying to make sense of a sketch by a cat "designer."
(cool designer from the rendering dept in Italy, in France or in
Korea?). Form is frozen first, by marketing and sales, (and top
management) and the rest is compromised by the R & D team. ( the term
used is optimised), this is passed off as team work, all in the spirit
of good design. From "goal setting" to "creative delivery" is a
seamless path, but for the benefit of good administration (and
departmental credits) we need to divide and rule (perhaps the
administrator benefits, albeit , in the short term, so who cares about
the bigger goals anyway). Segmented workflows are good for fault
finding and post facto analysis, but rarely produce great design
results. Check out the flash presentation at
<http://www.nextd.org/03/index.html> click on NextD Mindscapes 1.0 to
see their slide show. [Launch NextD Mindscape 1.0 (45K, Flash 5
required)] {...they make a comparison between the attributes of
Traditional Design and NextD}

Product design is a complex business and it cannot be done in a neatly
regimented manner (always), but we do need to bring some discipline to
the process and we also need to explore a great deal (in messy teams)
before the answers show up, and some of the explorations may seem long
winded, but the ends do justify the means. Can this be done entirely by
digital means? I do not know. Handling materials and real explorations
have always worked (so far, from the Upper Paleolithic age till today,
remember the origin of design, thumb meets palm for the first time in a
grip to hold and manipulate a tool and the human brain suddenly grows
multi-fold in size, nobody knows why, but we can wager a guess, the
first product is born, is it a hammer or a spear, a stick or a stone,
the very first tool, mans first invention, stick with a stone attached,
bravo? mans first design?), but marketing wants it yesterday, so do you
have an alternate answer? (97 words, sorry)

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
29 September 2005 at 8.30 pm IST


Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Applications
Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India

Tel: (off) 91 79 26639692 ext 1090
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
Fax: 91 79 26605242

email: ranjanmp@...
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/

On 29-Sep-05, at 4:22 AM, sandy wrote:

> Dear Ranjan,
>  All your writings are very well thought, informative and thorough in
> nature
>  But I have a humble request to make... Some times your sentences are
> soooooo
>  long that I stop enjoying the reading them, despite having a strong
> urge to
>  read and grow along.
>  For example it took me at least five readings to understand what you
> are
>  implying in the following sentence, and I am still not sure if I got
> you
>  right. To be precise, it has 109 words, without even one comma
> separation.
>  Don't get me wrong. I guess there are a lot of us who what to really
>  understand what you are trying to say, and get lost in the never
> ending maze
>  of words.
>  So it would be great if you can make your sentences small and easily
>  understandable. Also some times it would be nice if you can write "in
> a
>  nutshell" type of a sentence at the end or beginning of a stanza, to
>  facilitate the understanding of a quick reader.
>  Thanks and regards
>  Sandy
>  Sanandan Sudhir
>  AEPPD 2001
>  GEHC, Bangalore 560066
>  +9198450-20420
>  Ranjan Wrote (in the mail below..)
>  >>
>  Some Product Designers however have strayed towards the path of direct
>  manipulation and the results that we have seen has been quite
> remarkable but
>  this is not encouraged as a common course in the discipline since the
>  emphasis is on objects with complex technology or multitude of parts
> where
>  the separation of concept and execution in a segmented an clearly
> demarcated
>  process makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in
> the form
>  of styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of
> engineers
>  trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image
> and
>  specification target that is set before them.
>  >>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: designindia@...
> [mailto:designindia@...]
>  On Behalf Of M P Ranjan
>  Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:56 PM
>  To: Deepankar Bhattacharyya; designindia@...
>  Cc: M P Ranjan
>  Subject: Re: [designindia] Re: aesthetics in design
>
>  Dear Deepankar (Long post and quoted paper below)
>
>  Alas, the demise of the NID workshop is an alarming disaster story in
>  my humble opinion,  but it is however true, although I hope that it is
>  a temporary condition and it will eventually be restored to a level
>  that is fitting for the conduct of a high level of creative design
>  education in all our design disciplines. Like all other things we may
>  need to swing too far the other way before we realise what we are
>  missing and we will (hopefully) set our course right and swing back,
> as
>  in navigation through choppy waters, if I may use the analogy of
>  sailing through uncharted waters, towards a distant goal, a beacon of
>  light.

>  SNIP SNIP (Truncated to save other readers the burden of wading
> through the same matter).....

Dear Ranjan,

I think some things canot be understood by rationalization. Our minds
are perhaps not equipped to measure qualitative changes -evolution in
quite the same way as we do quantitative ones. Many aspects of design
especially those that deal with subjective areas of human-product
reationships fall into this. Aesthetics, aspirations, fashion and
other product attributes are the obvious ones. Less obvious is a
designer's intuitive relationship with material and structure -
somewhat different from that of an engineer or scientist.

To give an example the first sketch of a designer for a kettle spout
is likely to be OK in the sense that it will pour reasonably well,
he/she does not really need to get to this solution via complex
mathematical paths to determine liquid flows and other forces at the
moment of the liquid leaving the container. No doubt, there are
refnements to be made and the calculations will come, but the designer
here is working with a knowledge of material, form and liquid that is
   in an area of conciousness that in many ways is pre-rational and not
quite measurable or even given to verbal articulation.

Wasn't it Frank Wright who said that he asked his new aspiring
students to draw a bridge - he could tell whether the feel for design
was there if the bridge would stand without further technical inputs
- an intuitive grasp of balance, structure and rightness of form was
always there in the good ones.

This is exactly the area of a designers psyche that gets developed
when one works with mind/hand. Artists and craftpersons develop
intimacy with form and material, with technology and production
process so that at the moment of articulation, of 'design', it all
comes together in one seamless beautiful outpouring, much like the
feeling of perfection one feels on hitting a great golf shot.

you know it is good

regards

Deepankar Bhattacharyya
NID 1970-76


--- In designindia@..., M P Ranjan <ranjanmp@n...> wrote:
> Dear Deepankar (Long post and quoted paper below)
>
> Alas, the demise of the NID workshop is an alarming disaster story in
> my humble opinion,  but it is however true, although I hope that it is
> a temporary condition and it will eventually be restored to a level
> that is fitting for the conduct of a high level of creative design
> education in all our design disciplines. Like all other things we may
> need to swing too far the other way before we realise what we are
> missing and we will (hopefully) set our course right and swing back, as
> in navigation through choppy waters, if I may use the analogy of
> sailing through uncharted waters, towards a distant goal, a beacon of
> light.
>
snip snip

Dr Sndy
Agrd tht brvty is the sol of wt
nd prse nt hlf as chrmng as ptry
bt i hve wlkd in the hmlays
and if u prmt me to snd wse
i mus say tht it is th long traverse
tht leads to th breath taking view :)

Now that is said in lighter vein
so dil pe mat le yaar.


And now if i may revert back to normal text
and add some notes...

What I have liked about Ranjan's tone is a sense of optimism,
despite the bewildering onslaught of new age difficulties;
a sense of seeking to absorb and accept, an attempt to bridge worlds;
and perhaps the aesthetics of design does find a great strength
when it attempts to link; technology and art; technology and culture;
craft and livelihood...form and function too
but add to that a certain emotionality in approach, the sense of letting
things slowly grow- Rashmi put it across beautifully.

add to that a watchful involvement, alive and responsive
and not cut and dry and pedantic.

was reading the link on apple designers and how design helps facilitating
conversation- and that was good. The ability to draw an idea, is truly
magical, especially considering that most people are "drawing-shy".

the way a musician can take any ordinary line and sing it out, makes me
feel, i wish i could do that!

quite liked the view that the end of the marketing age draweth near...
and though in reality markets have been there for ever and will continue
to be there, and understand little of the babble on china and india that
is regularly circulated-except that two mighty nations are in tremendous
flux-
what will happen when the tissues of the pupa dissolve and transform-
will it be a butterfly? will it be some delicate moth? will it be a dragon?
who knows?

it gives me a certain warmth to read a chinese poet, speak thus...

"The moon falls on the mat
As I sit with my friend
Drinking wine
Who knows, tomorrow
The moon might not rise"

regards
Raja




> Dear Ranjan,
> All your writings are very well thought, informative and thorough in
> nature.
> But I have a humble request to make... Some times your sentences are
> soooooo
> long that I stop enjoying the reading them, despite having a strong urge
> to
> read and grow along.
> For example it took me at least five readings to understand what you are
> implying in the following sentence, and I am still not sure if I got you
> right. To be precise, it has 109 words, without even one comma separation.
> Don't get me wrong. I guess there are a lot of us who what to really
> understand what you are trying to say, and get lost in the never ending
> maze
> of words.
> So it would be great if you can make your sentences small and easily
> understandable. Also some times it would be nice if you can write "in a
> nutshell" type of a sentence at the end or beginning of a stanza, to
> facilitate the understanding of a quick reader.
> Thanks and regards
> Sandy
> Sanandan Sudhir
> AEPPD 2001
> GEHC, Bangalore 560066
> +9198450-20420
> Ranjan Wrote (in the mail below..)
>>>
> Some Product Designers however have strayed towards the path of direct
> manipulation and the results that we have seen has been quite remarkable
> but
> this is not encouraged as a common course in the discipline since the
> emphasis is on objects with complex technology or multitude of parts where
> the separation of concept and execution in a segmented an clearly
> demarcated
> process makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in the
> form
> of styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of engineers
> trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image and
> specification target that is set before them.
>>>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: designindia@... [mailto:designindia@...]
> On Behalf Of M P Ranjan
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:56 PM
> To: Deepankar Bhattacharyya; designindia@...
> Cc: M P Ranjan
> Subject: Re: [designindia] Re: aesthetics in design
>
> Dear Deepankar (Long post and quoted paper below)
>
> Alas, the demise of the NID workshop is an alarming disaster story in
> my humble opinion,  but it is however true, although I hope that it is
> a temporary condition and it will eventually be restored to a level
> that is fitting for the conduct of a high level of creative design
> education in all our design disciplines. Like all other things we may
> need to swing too far the other way before we realise what we are
> missing and we will (hopefully) set our course right and swing back, as
> in navigation through choppy waters, if I may use the analogy of
> sailing through uncharted waters, towards a distant goal, a beacon of
> light.
>
> I did some reflection when the many big machines that we had in the
> wood and metal workshops were removed to make place for the new fangled
> digital resources and the result was a paper that I circulated to many
> of my colleagues who had been part of the local discussion on the
> subject, and I looked at and reflected on the thinking styles adopted
> by different disciplines at NID, as I saw it then. Today the workshop
> facilities are far from perfect and many of the prototypes that could
> be done in the past are not possible any more with the current
> facilities and another major lacuna is the reduced presence of fine
> craftsmen who used to man these facilities in the seventies and
> eighties. The situation has changed since then and NID no longer makes
> batches of furniture or other products which were used to justify the
> presence of these craftsmen and the machines. But this activity was a
> great source of learning for anyone who wanted to engage with the
> process, "Hand-on Minds-on", that was an ongoing one at NID, day and
> night. However, the real question that now needs to be answered in
> present times is, what is the kind of facility and material handling
> resource that is considered a very minimum for conduct of design
> education in all our disciplines to sustain a "Hands-on Minds-on" way
> of learning that sits so deeply in our "Learning by Doing" tradition,
> an ideology that we borrowed from the Bauhaus, Ulm and ofcourse the
> Eamses, if we continue to consider it as a valid route for design
> education in the future of the so called digital age. This will also
> set a benchmark for all the new design schools that are being set up
> across the country (and the world) and some reflection on the basic
> infrastructure for design education will shape the minimum facilities
> that are made available in these schools. A rethink is definitely
> needed and this forum is perhaps the best equipped to handle this task
> over a number of iterations and aided perhaps by some experimentation
> as well.
>
> I am quoting below my note of 23rd July 2003 titled "Styles of Design
> Thought and Action: Product Design and Furniture Design Education
> Programmes at NID Compared" and I am sure there are many on the list
> whose views on this matter that are diametrically opposed to mine, but
> I venture to open this for debate here and with the hope that some new
> ideas will emerge from which all of us will benefit, and design
> education in India most certainly will be guided by these insights in
> the foreseeable future, if not immediately.
>
> With warm regards
>
> M P Ranjan
> from my office at NID
> 27 September 2005 at 9.45 pm IST
>
> Quoted below: MPR's note on styles of design thinking and action:
>
> Styles of Design Thought and Action: Product Design and Furniture
> Design Education Programmes at NID Compared
>
> M P Ranjan
> Faculty of Design
> National Institute of Design
>
> 26 July 2003 (after the unceremonious demolition of the NID’s great
> wood workshop facility)
>
> NID is a multi-disciplinary Institute that offers design education in
> several disciplines ranging from Industrial Product Design, Furniture
> Design, Ceramic Design and Textile and Apparel Design as well as a
> number of Visual Communication programmes. Graphic Design and
> Exhibition Design deal with print and space based communications while
> Video and Animation, New Media and Audio Visual with dynamic forms of
> communication with moving images. While the NID has built its
> undergraduate curriculum on the premise that all the disciplines can
> draw from a common root in the form of a foundation programme a great
> deal of pressure was exerted by the specialisations on the foundation
> programme to get their special kinds of inputs strengthened over the
> years that the programme evolved at NID. We now have over thirty years
> of experience in conducting the integrated foundation programme and we
> are also at the threshold of another major change in design thinking
> and action that is being driven by changing tools with particular
> reference to the use of computers in design education.
>
> I have been an early advocate for the use of computers and Information
> Technology in design education but I must hasten to add that I have
> continued to appreciate the critical role that manual skills and
> material manipulation have to play in the shaping of the cognitive
> capabilities of a designer, with particular focus on the training of
> the industrial Designer and also the Textile Designer at NID. We need
> to take stock and evaluate the tools and processes that the future
> design educator will need to use to build deep understanding of the
> emerging milieu of complexity that the future designer will need to
> face and build this understanding into the curriculum of today. The
> pedagogy of the Bauhaus and the Ulm had led directly to the Foundation
> Programme at NID and it evolved to become a dependable and proven
> methodology for building lasting and high quality design attitudes,
> aptitudes and capabilities that have worked for us in an admirable
> manner.
>
> Some design educators and administrators have been heard to say that
> all this will need to change in an era of knowledge driven design and
> it is perhaps pertinent to see if this is a valid argument at all.
>
> In this paper I will restrict myself to comparing two fairly similar
> disciplines, that of Product Design and Furniture Design, since I have
> more data on these disciplines through my direct involvement in both of
> them over the years. A similar analysis could of course be extended to
> the other specialisations, or should we say vertical segments of design
> action, such as a comparison between the tools and processes of a
> Graphic Designer and that of a Textile Designer in the approaches to
> their education and the facilities that may be needed in each of these
> cases. The unstated claim seems to be that with the convergence that is
> being driven by the entry of digital tools for all the disciplines a
> homogenous kind of teaching environment can service the needs of all
> the disciplines alike. This is however far from the truth and we will
> have to be vigilant if we are to continue to provide our student with
> the action capabilities in the real world that is based on their
> fundamental and deep understanding of the materials of their respective
> trades although a number of intermediate processes may seem to be
> similar due to the use of fairly common digital tools by all the
> students alike. This is a major change from the nature of studios and
> labs that these disciplines used in the past and such differentiated
> labs are shrinking all over and are being replaced by fairly similar
> looking digital facilities. Graphics was recognised by its print
> facilities while textiles by its weaving facilities and some areas such
> as screen printing formed a common platform where the difference lay in
> the medium being printed, paper or cloth, using different technologies
> for the colour that was dictated by the properties and performance
> attributes of each type.
>
> I do believe that the Furniture Design programme is different from that
> of Product Design and it attracts people of a different mind-set and
> aptitude although a number of inputs given in both programmes are of a
> similar nature. However since we have raised the issue this is a good
> an opportunity as any to reflect on what these differences are and what
> are the common areas.
>
> One major difference is in style of problem solving that is encouraged
> in both disciplines and this stems from the nature of the industry and
> the category of products that both types of professionals have to deal
> with in their careers. Further the areas have evolved from different
> sources and this too contributes a great deal to the nature of teaching
> and the focus of the assignments given to a student. The furniture
> design discipline is more hands-on in nature and the student is
> encouraged to focus on a few major materials such as wood, steel and
> plastics with a hands-on approach and early prototyping is both
> encouraged and facilitated throughout the programme.
>
> Drawing is always in scale one to one at the early stage of product
> detailing and for final communication smaller scales may be used but
> are usually restricted to 1:2, 1:5 and 1:10 scales and for
> architectural representations the next scale is 1:25 or 1:50 for block
> layouts of interior spaces. The roots of the Furniture Design processes
> are more aligned to the fields of Architecture and Cabinet-making
> rather than Engineering that is the focus of the Product Designer. The
> Furniture Design area has a far longer tradition of formal existence in
> the field of design education since it was first set in motion as a
> result of the Arts and Crafts movements that predated the Industrial
> Revolution. Therefore you have a continuous tradition of fine furniture
> making that was studied by great masters such as Hans Wagner who looked
> at Egyptian and Chinese Furniture construction in wood that continue as
> an unbroken tradition for over a thousand years. The Industrial
> revolution saw the creation of the serially produced furniture and even
> today the area of hand made or hand finished furniture is still a way
> of life in many parts of the world.
>
> Michael Thonet's Chair No 14 caused a major sensation when for the
> first time the process of bent wood was used to fabricate a series
> chair production at the start of the industrial revolution being
> launched by Michael Thonet and sons in 1859/60. The chair took the
> world by storm and all the colonial centres in Africa and Asia saw the
> importation of the Chair in a dismantled form in crates that contained
> 36 chairs and the tool required to assemble these were contained in one
> cubic meter. In Bombay (now Mumbai) these chairs are still in use in
> the numerous Irani Restaurants that serve "Chai and Pau" as they did
> over a hundred years ago and is certainly a part of the heritage of the
> Bombay Principality and the British Raj. The Dutch and the French too
> imported these chairs to their respective colonial regions. The chair
> was so elegant, durable and cost effective that it made eminent
> business sense to buy these for the restaurant trade. These chairs
> represent a deep understanding that was developed by the Thonet family
> for manipulating and constructing wood in the form of chairs and other
> furniture items of great value and through a process of direct
> experimentation with material and process that is hands on rather than
> intellectual.
>
> I have given a long description of one chair but the process of
> creation signifies the difference between the areas of Furniture Design
> and that of Product Design at least as it is practised at NID. The
> Textile Designers and the Ceramic Designers too use such hands-on
> processes that encourage tactile explorations to intellectual
> discourses and abstract representations that are generally used by
> engineers and product designers alike. Some Product Designers however
> have strayed towards the path of direct manipulation and the results
> that we have seen has been quite remarkable but this is not encouraged
> as a common course in the discipline since the emphasis is on objects
> with complex technology or multitude of parts where the separation of
> concept and execution in a segmented an clearly demarcated process
> makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in the form of
> styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of engineers
> trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image
> and specification target that is set before them. In the Area of
> Furniture, Textile and Ceramic that approach at NID has been always
> using the hands-on approach which explains the nature of workshop that
> is required to service the needs of their respective faculty and
> students. At NID we have always respected the different ways in which
> these disciplines operate but there has been a lot of criticism about
> these methods from many uninitiated persons especially students and
> faculty of product design and from the engineering and scientific and
> traditional management community who say that the method of work is not
> scientific and is too craftsman-like to be called design. It is they
> who are making a grave mistake in dismissing these time-tested
> processes as either primitive or unscientific. The textile designers
> and the furniture designers have repeatedly shown that they are the
> ones who laugh their way to the bank with success after success in
> their method of working that delivers sensitive solutions and practical
> ones to boot. We must recognise that product creation and product
> delivery are two completely different ball-games. One is the domain of
> the designer and innovator and the other is that of the industry and
> the engineer. We are I believe in the business of training designers
> and those who can lead industry by example. These beings will need to
> handle materials in an experimental manner and based on this
> understanding they would build the mental models that inform the
> designs of the future. Dyson has shown that product design too needs to
> be hands-on but is anyone listening to success stories and drawing
> messages from these? Our actions seem to belie this fundamental truth
> about the nature of design.
>
>  ~
>
> UnQuote
>
> M P Ranjan
> 27 september 2005 at 9.45 pm IST
>
>
> Prof M P Ranjan
> Faculty of Design
> Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Applications
> Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
> National Institute of Design
> Paldi
> Ahmedabad 380 007 India
>
> Tel: (off) 91 79 26639692 ext 1090
> Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
> Fax: 91 79 26605242
>
> email: ranjanmp@...
> web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/
>
> On 27-Sep-05, at 6:06 PM, Deepankar Bhattacharyya wrote:
>
>> hi Ranjan,
>>
>>  I too met with Eames Demetrios at a do organised by Herman Miller at
>>  IHC, Delhi, brought back many old memories, I had helped put up the
>>  Nehru exhibition at Delhi in 1972.
>>
>>  Everyone seems to have forgotten how Charles Eames's hands-on way of
>>  working with material and technology can lead to great design, we
>>  are so busy working with computers these days, so much so that the
>>  workshop has been given the complete go-by.
>>
>>  I am told that the NID workshops are also being dismantled in favour
>>  of simulated experience, is this true? Can innovative design
>>  thinking really happen without working with the hands,
>>
>>  I wonder???
>>
>>  regards
>>
>>  Deepankar Bhattacharyya
>>  NID 1970-76
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Dr Sndy
Agrd tht brvty is the sol of wt
nd prse nt hlf as chrmng as ptry
bt i hve wlkd in the hmlays
and if u prmt me to snd wse
i mus say tht it is th long traverse
tht leads to th breath taking view :)

Now that is said in lighter vein
so dil pe mat le yaar.


And now if i may revert back to normal text
and add some notes...

What I have liked about Ranjan's tone is a sense of optimism,
despite the bewildering onslaught of new age difficulties;
a sense of seeking to absorb and accept, an attempt to bridge worlds;
and perhaps the aesthetics of design does find a great strength
when it attempts to link; technology and art; technology and culture;
craft and livelihood...form and function too
but add to that a certain emotionality in approach, the sense of letting
things slowly grow- Rashmi put it across beautifully.

add to that a watchful involvement, alive and responsive
and not cut and dry and pedantic.

was reading the link on apple designers and how design helps facilitating
conversation- and that was good. The ability to draw an idea, is truly
magical, especially considering that most people are "drawing-shy".

the way a musician can take any ordinary line and sing it out, makes me
feel, i wish i could do that!

quite liked the view that the end of the marketing age draweth near...
and though in reality markets have been there for ever and will continue
to be there, and understand little of the babble on china and india that
is regularly circulated-except that two mighty nations are in tremendous
flux-
what will happen when the tissues of the pupa dissolve and transform-
will it be a butterfly? will it be some delicate moth? will it be a dragon?
who knows?

it gives me a certain warmth to read a chinese poet, speak thus...

"The moon falls on the mat
As I sit with my friend
Drinking wine
Who knows, tomorrow
The moon might not rise"

regards
Raja




> Dear Ranjan,
> All your writings are very well thought, informative and thorough in
> nature.
> But I have a humble request to make... Some times your sentences are
> soooooo
> long that I stop enjoying the reading them, despite having a strong urge
> to
> read and grow along.
> For example it took me at least five readings to understand what you are
> implying in the following sentence, and I am still not sure if I got you
> right. To be precise, it has 109 words, without even one comma separation.
> Don't get me wrong. I guess there are a lot of us who what to really
> understand what you are trying to say, and get lost in the never ending
> maze
> of words.
> So it would be great if you can make your sentences small and easily
> understandable. Also some times it would be nice if you can write "in a
> nutshell" type of a sentence at the end or beginning of a stanza, to
> facilitate the understanding of a quick reader.
> Thanks and regards
> Sandy
> Sanandan Sudhir
> AEPPD 2001
> GEHC, Bangalore 560066
> +9198450-20420
> Ranjan Wrote (in the mail below..)
>>>
> Some Product Designers however have strayed towards the path of direct
> manipulation and the results that we have seen has been quite remarkable
> but
> this is not encouraged as a common course in the discipline since the
> emphasis is on objects with complex technology or multitude of parts where
> the separation of concept and execution in a segmented an clearly
> demarcated
> process makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in the
> form
> of styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of engineers
> trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image and
> specification target that is set before them.
>>>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: designindia@... [mailto:designindia@...]
> On Behalf Of M P Ranjan
> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:56 PM
> To: Deepankar Bhattacharyya; designindia@...
> Cc: M P Ranjan
> Subject: Re: [designindia] Re: aesthetics in design
>
> Dear Deepankar (Long post and quoted paper below)
>
> Alas, the demise of the NID workshop is an alarming disaster story in
> my humble opinion,  but it is however true, although I hope that it is
> a temporary condition and it will eventually be restored to a level
> that is fitting for the conduct of a high level of creative design
> education in all our design disciplines. Like all other things we may
> need to swing too far the other way before we realise what we are
> missing and we will (hopefully) set our course right and swing back, as
> in navigation through choppy waters, if I may use the analogy of
> sailing through uncharted waters, towards a distant goal, a beacon of
> light.
>
> I did some reflection when the many big machines that we had in the
> wood and metal workshops were removed to make place for the new fangled
> digital resources and the result was a paper that I circulated to many
> of my colleagues who had been part of the local discussion on the
> subject, and I looked at and reflected on the thinking styles adopted
> by different disciplines at NID, as I saw it then. Today the workshop
> facilities are far from perfect and many of the prototypes that could
> be done in the past are not possible any more with the current
> facilities and another major lacuna is the reduced presence of fine
> craftsmen who used to man these facilities in the seventies and
> eighties. The situation has changed since then and NID no longer makes
> batches of furniture or other products which were used to justify the
> presence of these craftsmen and the machines. But this activity was a
> great source of learning for anyone who wanted to engage with the
> process, "Hand-on Minds-on", that was an ongoing one at NID, day and
> night. However, the real question that now needs to be answered in
> present times is, what is the kind of facility and material handling
> resource that is considered a very minimum for conduct of design
> education in all our disciplines to sustain a "Hands-on Minds-on" way
> of learning that sits so deeply in our "Learning by Doing" tradition,
> an ideology that we borrowed from the Bauhaus, Ulm and ofcourse the
> Eamses, if we continue to consider it as a valid route for design
> education in the future of the so called digital age. This will also
> set a benchmark for all the new design schools that are being set up
> across the country (and the world) and some reflection on the basic
> infrastructure for design education will shape the minimum facilities
> that are made available in these schools. A rethink is definitely
> needed and this forum is perhaps the best equipped to handle this task
> over a number of iterations and aided perhaps by some experimentation
> as well.
>
> I am quoting below my note of 23rd July 2003 titled "Styles of Design
> Thought and Action: Product Design and Furniture Design Education
> Programmes at NID Compared" and I am sure there are many on the list
> whose views on this matter that are diametrically opposed to mine, but
> I venture to open this for debate here and with the hope that some new
> ideas will emerge from which all of us will benefit, and design
> education in India most certainly will be guided by these insights in
> the foreseeable future, if not immediately.
>
> With warm regards
>
> M P Ranjan
> from my office at NID
> 27 September 2005 at 9.45 pm IST
>
> Quoted below: MPR's note on styles of design thinking and action:
>
> Styles of Design Thought and Action: Product Design and Furniture
> Design Education Programmes at NID Compared
>
> M P Ranjan
> Faculty of Design
> National Institute of Design
>
> 26 July 2003 (after the unceremonious demolition of the NID’s great
> wood workshop facility)
>
> NID is a multi-disciplinary Institute that offers design education in
> several disciplines ranging from Industrial Product Design, Furniture
> Design, Ceramic Design and Textile and Apparel Design as well as a
> number of Visual Communication programmes. Graphic Design and
> Exhibition Design deal with print and space based communications while
> Video and Animation, New Media and Audio Visual with dynamic forms of
> communication with moving images. While the NID has built its
> undergraduate curriculum on the premise that all the disciplines can
> draw from a common root in the form of a foundation programme a great
> deal of pressure was exerted by the specialisations on the foundation
> programme to get their special kinds of inputs strengthened over the
> years that the programme evolved at NID. We now have over thirty years
> of experience in conducting the integrated foundation programme and we
> are also at the threshold of another major change in design thinking
> and action that is being driven by changing tools with particular
> reference to the use of computers in design education.
>
> I have been an early advocate for the use of computers and Information
> Technology in design education but I must hasten to add that I have
> continued to appreciate the critical role that manual skills and
> material manipulation have to play in the shaping of the cognitive
> capabilities of a designer, with particular focus on the training of
> the industrial Designer and also the Textile Designer at NID. We need
> to take stock and evaluate the tools and processes that the future
> design educator will need to use to build deep understanding of the
> emerging milieu of complexity that the future designer will need to
> face and build this understanding into the curriculum of today. The
> pedagogy of the Bauhaus and the Ulm had led directly to the Foundation
> Programme at NID and it evolved to become a dependable and proven
> methodology for building lasting and high quality design attitudes,
> aptitudes and capabilities that have worked for us in an admirable
> manner.
>
> Some design educators and administrators have been heard to say that
> all this will need to change in an era of knowledge driven design and
> it is perhaps pertinent to see if this is a valid argument at all.
>
> In this paper I will restrict myself to comparing two fairly similar
> disciplines, that of Product Design and Furniture Design, since I have
> more data on these disciplines through my direct involvement in both of
> them over the years. A similar analysis could of course be extended to
> the other specialisations, or should we say vertical segments of design
> action, such as a comparison between the tools and processes of a
> Graphic Designer and that of a Textile Designer in the approaches to
> their education and the facilities that may be needed in each of these
> cases. The unstated claim seems to be that with the convergence that is
> being driven by the entry of digital tools for all the disciplines a
> homogenous kind of teaching environment can service the needs of all
> the disciplines alike. This is however far from the truth and we will
> have to be vigilant if we are to continue to provide our student with
> the action capabilities in the real world that is based on their
> fundamental and deep understanding of the materials of their respective
> trades although a number of intermediate processes may seem to be
> similar due to the use of fairly common digital tools by all the
> students alike. This is a major change from the nature of studios and
> labs that these disciplines used in the past and such differentiated
> labs are shrinking all over and are being replaced by fairly similar
> looking digital facilities. Graphics was recognised by its print
> facilities while textiles by its weaving facilities and some areas such
> as screen printing formed a common platform where the difference lay in
> the medium being printed, paper or cloth, using different technologies
> for the colour that was dictated by the properties and performance
> attributes of each type.
>
> I do believe that the Furniture Design programme is different from that
> of Product Design and it attracts people of a different mind-set and
> aptitude although a number of inputs given in both programmes are of a
> similar nature. However since we have raised the issue this is a good
> an opportunity as any to reflect on what these differences are and what
> are the common areas.
>
> One major difference is in style of problem solving that is encouraged
> in both disciplines and this stems from the nature of the industry and
> the category of products that both types of professionals have to deal
> with in their careers. Further the areas have evolved from different
> sources and this too contributes a great deal to the nature of teaching
> and the focus of the assignments given to a student. The furniture
> design discipline is more hands-on in nature and the student is
> encouraged to focus on a few major materials such as wood, steel and
> plastics with a hands-on approach and early prototyping is both
> encouraged and facilitated throughout the programme.
>
> Drawing is always in scale one to one at the early stage of product
> detailing and for final communication smaller scales may be used but
> are usually restricted to 1:2, 1:5 and 1:10 scales and for
> architectural representations the next scale is 1:25 or 1:50 for block
> layouts of interior spaces. The roots of the Furniture Design processes
> are more aligned to the fields of Architecture and Cabinet-making
> rather than Engineering that is the focus of the Product Designer. The
> Furniture Design area has a far longer tradition of formal existence in
> the field of design education since it was first set in motion as a
> result of the Arts and Crafts movements that predated the Industrial
> Revolution. Therefore you have a continuous tradition of fine furniture
> making that was studied by great masters such as Hans Wagner who looked
> at Egyptian and Chinese Furniture construction in wood that continue as
> an unbroken tradition for over a thousand years. The Industrial
> revolution saw the creation of the serially produced furniture and even
> today the area of hand made or hand finished furniture is still a way
> of life in many parts of the world.
>
> Michael Thonet's Chair No 14 caused a major sensation when for the
> first time the process of bent wood was used to fabricate a series
> chair production at the start of the industrial revolution being
> launched by Michael Thonet and sons in 1859/60. The chair took the
> world by storm and all the colonial centres in Africa and Asia saw the
> importation of the Chair in a dismantled form in crates that contained
> 36 chairs and the tool required to assemble these were contained in one
> cubic meter. In Bombay (now Mumbai) these chairs are still in use in
> the numerous Irani Restaurants that serve "Chai and Pau" as they did
> over a hundred years ago and is certainly a part of the heritage of the
> Bombay Principality and the British Raj. The Dutch and the French too
> imported these chairs to their respective colonial regions. The chair
> was so elegant, durable and cost effective that it made eminent
> business sense to buy these for the restaurant trade. These chairs
> represent a deep understanding that was developed by the Thonet family
> for manipulating and constructing wood in the form of chairs and other
> furniture items of great value and through a process of direct
> experimentation with material and process that is hands on rather than
> intellectual.
>
> I have given a long description of one chair but the process of
> creation signifies the difference between the areas of Furniture Design
> and that of Product Design at least as it is practised at NID. The
> Textile Designers and the Ceramic Designers too use such hands-on
> processes that encourage tactile explorations to intellectual
> discourses and abstract representations that are generally used by
> engineers and product designers alike. Some Product Designers however
> have strayed towards the path of direct manipulation and the results
> that we have seen has been quite remarkable but this is not encouraged
> as a common course in the discipline since the emphasis is on objects
> with complex technology or multitude of parts where the separation of
> concept and execution in a segmented an clearly demarcated process
> makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in the form of
> styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of engineers
> trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image
> and specification target that is set before them. In the Area of
> Furniture, Textile and Ceramic that approach at NID has been always
> using the hands-on approach which explains the nature of workshop that
> is required to service the needs of their respective faculty and
> students. At NID we have always respected the different ways in which
> these disciplines operate but there has been a lot of criticism about
> these methods from many uninitiated persons especially students and
> faculty of product design and from the engineering and scientific and
> traditional management community who say that the method of work is not
> scientific and is too craftsman-like to be called design. It is they
> who are making a grave mistake in dismissing these time-tested
> processes as either primitive or unscientific. The textile designers
> and the furniture designers have repeatedly shown that they are the
> ones who laugh their way to the bank with success after success in
> their method of working that delivers sensitive solutions and practical
> ones to boot. We must recognise that product creation and product
> delivery are two completely different ball-games. One is the domain of
> the designer and innovator and the other is that of the industry and
> the engineer. We are I believe in the business of training designers
> and those who can lead industry by example. These beings will need to
> handle materials in an experimental manner and based on this
> understanding they would build the mental models that inform the
> designs of the future. Dyson has shown that product design too needs to
> be hands-on but is anyone listening to success stories and drawing
> messages from these? Our actions seem to belie this fundamental truth
> about the nature of design.
>
>  ~
>
> UnQuote
>
> M P Ranjan
> 27 september 2005 at 9.45 pm IST
>
>
> Prof M P Ranjan
> Faculty of Design
> Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Applications
> Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
> National Institute of Design
> Paldi
> Ahmedabad 380 007 India
>
> Tel: (off) 91 79 26639692 ext 1090
> Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
> Fax: 91 79 26605242
>
> email: ranjanmp@...
> web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/
>
> On 27-Sep-05, at 6:06 PM, Deepankar Bhattacharyya wrote:
>
>> hi Ranjan,
>>
>>  I too met with Eames Demetrios at a do organised by Herman Miller at
>>  IHC, Delhi, brought back many old memories, I had helped put up the
>>  Nehru exhibition at Delhi in 1972.
>>
>>  Everyone seems to have forgotten how Charles Eames's hands-on way of
>>  working with material and technology can lead to great design, we
>>  are so busy working with computers these days, so much so that the
>>  workshop has been given the complete go-by.
>>
>>  I am told that the NID workshops are also being dismantled in favour
>>  of simulated experience, is this true? Can innovative design
>>  thinking really happen without working with the hands,
>>
>>  I wonder???
>>
>>  regards
>>
>>  Deepankar Bhattacharyya
>>  NID 1970-76
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Dear Ranjan,
All your writings are very well thought, informative and thorough in nature.
But I have a humble request to make... Some times your sentences are soooooo
long that I stop enjoying the reading them, despite having a strong urge to
read and grow along.
For example it took me at least five readings to understand what you are
implying in the following sentence, and I am still not sure if I got you
right. To be precise, it has 109 words, without even one comma separation.
Don't get me wrong. I guess there are a lot of us who what to really
understand what you are trying to say, and get lost in the never ending maze
of words.
So it would be great if you can make your sentences small and easily
understandable. Also some times it would be nice if you can write "in a
nutshell" type of a sentence at the end or beginning of a stanza, to
facilitate the understanding of a quick reader.
Thanks and regards
Sandy
Sanandan Sudhir
AEPPD 2001
GEHC, Bangalore 560066
+9198450-20420
Ranjan Wrote (in the mail below..)
>>
Some Product Designers however have strayed towards the path of direct
manipulation and the results that we have seen has been quite remarkable but
this is not encouraged as a common course in the discipline since the
emphasis is on objects with complex technology or multitude of parts where
the separation of concept and execution in a segmented an clearly demarcated
process makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in the form
of styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of engineers
trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image and
specification target that is set before them.
>>

-----Original Message-----
From: designindia@... [mailto:designindia@...]
On Behalf Of M P Ranjan
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 9:56 PM
To: Deepankar Bhattacharyya; designindia@...
Cc: M P Ranjan
Subject: Re: [designindia] Re: aesthetics in design

Dear Deepankar (Long post and quoted paper below)

Alas, the demise of the NID workshop is an alarming disaster story in
my humble opinion,  but it is however true, although I hope that it is
a temporary condition and it will eventually be restored to a level
that is fitting for the conduct of a high level of creative design
education in all our design disciplines. Like all other things we may
need to swing too far the other way before we realise what we are
missing and we will (hopefully) set our course right and swing back, as
in navigation through choppy waters, if I may use the analogy of
sailing through uncharted waters, towards a distant goal, a beacon of
light.

I did some reflection when the many big machines that we had in the
wood and metal workshops were removed to make place for the new fangled
digital resources and the result was a paper that I circulated to many
of my colleagues who had been part of the local discussion on the
subject, and I looked at and reflected on the thinking styles adopted
by different disciplines at NID, as I saw it then. Today the workshop
facilities are far from perfect and many of the prototypes that could
be done in the past are not possible any more with the current
facilities and another major lacuna is the reduced presence of fine
craftsmen who used to man these facilities in the seventies and
eighties. The situation has changed since then and NID no longer makes
batches of furniture or other products which were used to justify the
presence of these craftsmen and the machines. But this activity was a
great source of learning for anyone who wanted to engage with the
process, "Hand-on Minds-on", that was an ongoing one at NID, day and
night. However, the real question that now needs to be answered in
present times is, what is the kind of facility and material handling
resource that is considered a very minimum for conduct of design
education in all our disciplines to sustain a "Hands-on Minds-on" way
of learning that sits so deeply in our "Learning by Doing" tradition,
an ideology that we borrowed from the Bauhaus, Ulm and ofcourse the
Eamses, if we continue to consider it as a valid route for design
education in the future of the so called digital age. This will also
set a benchmark for all the new design schools that are being set up
across the country (and the world) and some reflection on the basic
infrastructure for design education will shape the minimum facilities
that are made available in these schools. A rethink is definitely
needed and this forum is perhaps the best equipped to handle this task
over a number of iterations and aided perhaps by some experimentation
as well.

I am quoting below my note of 23rd July 2003 titled "Styles of Design
Thought and Action: Product Design and Furniture Design Education
Programmes at NID Compared" and I am sure there are many on the list
whose views on this matter that are diametrically opposed to mine, but
I venture to open this for debate here and with the hope that some new
ideas will emerge from which all of us will benefit, and design
education in India most certainly will be guided by these insights in
the foreseeable future, if not immediately.

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
27 September 2005 at 9.45 pm IST

Quoted below: MPR's note on styles of design thinking and action:

Styles of Design Thought and Action: Product Design and Furniture
Design Education Programmes at NID Compared

M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
National Institute of Design

26 July 2003 (after the unceremonious demolition of the NID’s great
wood workshop facility)

NID is a multi-disciplinary Institute that offers design education in
several disciplines ranging from Industrial Product Design, Furniture
Design, Ceramic Design and Textile and Apparel Design as well as a
number of Visual Communication programmes. Graphic Design and
Exhibition Design deal with print and space based communications while
Video and Animation, New Media and Audio Visual with dynamic forms of
communication with moving images. While the NID has built its
undergraduate curriculum on the premise that all the disciplines can
draw from a common root in the form of a foundation programme a great
deal of pressure was exerted by the specialisations on the foundation
programme to get their special kinds of inputs strengthened over the
years that the programme evolved at NID. We now have over thirty years
of experience in conducting the integrated foundation programme and we
are also at the threshold of another major change in design thinking
and action that is being driven by changing tools with particular
reference to the use of computers in design education.

I have been an early advocate for the use of computers and Information
Technology in design education but I must hasten to add that I have
continued to appreciate the critical role that manual skills and
material manipulation have to play in the shaping of the cognitive
capabilities of a designer, with particular focus on the training of
the industrial Designer and also the Textile Designer at NID. We need
to take stock and evaluate the tools and processes that the future
design educator will need to use to build deep understanding of the
emerging milieu of complexity that the future designer will need to
face and build this understanding into the curriculum of today. The
pedagogy of the Bauhaus and the Ulm had led directly to the Foundation
Programme at NID and it evolved to become a dependable and proven
methodology for building lasting and high quality design attitudes,
aptitudes and capabilities that have worked for us in an admirable
manner.

Some design educators and administrators have been heard to say that
all this will need to change in an era of knowledge driven design and
it is perhaps pertinent to see if this is a valid argument at all.

In this paper I will restrict myself to comparing two fairly similar
disciplines, that of Product Design and Furniture Design, since I have
more data on these disciplines through my direct involvement in both of
them over the years. A similar analysis could of course be extended to
the other specialisations, or should we say vertical segments of design
action, such as a comparison between the tools and processes of a
Graphic Designer and that of a Textile Designer in the approaches to
their education and the facilities that may be needed in each of these
cases. The unstated claim seems to be that with the convergence that is
being driven by the entry of digital tools for all the disciplines a
homogenous kind of teaching environment can service the needs of all
the disciplines alike. This is however far from the truth and we will
have to be vigilant if we are to continue to provide our student with
the action capabilities in the real world that is based on their
fundamental and deep understanding of the materials of their respective
trades although a number of intermediate processes may seem to be
similar due to the use of fairly common digital tools by all the
students alike. This is a major change from the nature of studios and
labs that these disciplines used in the past and such differentiated
labs are shrinking all over and are being replaced by fairly similar
looking digital facilities. Graphics was recognised by its print
facilities while textiles by its weaving facilities and some areas such
as screen printing formed a common platform where the difference lay in
the medium being printed, paper or cloth, using different technologies
for the colour that was dictated by the properties and performance
attributes of each type.

I do believe that the Furniture Design programme is different from that
of Product Design and it attracts people of a different mind-set and
aptitude although a number of inputs given in both programmes are of a
similar nature. However since we have raised the issue this is a good
an opportunity as any to reflect on what these differences are and what
are the common areas.

One major difference is in style of problem solving that is encouraged
in both disciplines and this stems from the nature of the industry and
the category of products that both types of professionals have to deal
with in their careers. Further the areas have evolved from different
sources and this too contributes a great deal to the nature of teaching
and the focus of the assignments given to a student. The furniture
design discipline is more hands-on in nature and the student is
encouraged to focus on a few major materials such as wood, steel and
plastics with a hands-on approach and early prototyping is both
encouraged and facilitated throughout the programme.

Drawing is always in scale one to one at the early stage of product
detailing and for final communication smaller scales may be used but
are usually restricted to 1:2, 1:5 and 1:10 scales and for
architectural representations the next scale is 1:25 or 1:50 for block
layouts of interior spaces. The roots of the Furniture Design processes
are more aligned to the fields of Architecture and Cabinet-making
rather than Engineering that is the focus of the Product Designer. The
Furniture Design area has a far longer tradition of formal existence in
the field of design education since it was first set in motion as a
result of the Arts and Crafts movements that predated the Industrial
Revolution. Therefore you have a continuous tradition of fine furniture
making that was studied by great masters such as Hans Wagner who looked
at Egyptian and Chinese Furniture construction in wood that continue as
an unbroken tradition for over a thousand years. The Industrial
revolution saw the creation of the serially produced furniture and even
today the area of hand made or hand finished furniture is still a way
of life in many parts of the world.

Michael Thonet's Chair No 14 caused a major sensation when for the
first time the process of bent wood was used to fabricate a series
chair production at the start of the industrial revolution being
launched by Michael Thonet and sons in 1859/60. The chair took the
world by storm and all the colonial centres in Africa and Asia saw the
importation of the Chair in a dismantled form in crates that contained
36 chairs and the tool required to assemble these were contained in one
cubic meter. In Bombay (now Mumbai) these chairs are still in use in
the numerous Irani Restaurants that serve "Chai and Pau" as they did
over a hundred years ago and is certainly a part of the heritage of the
Bombay Principality and the British Raj. The Dutch and the French too
imported these chairs to their respective colonial regions. The chair
was so elegant, durable and cost effective that it made eminent
business sense to buy these for the restaurant trade. These chairs
represent a deep understanding that was developed by the Thonet family
for manipulating and constructing wood in the form of chairs and other
furniture items of great value and through a process of direct
experimentation with material and process that is hands on rather than
intellectual.

I have given a long description of one chair but the process of
creation signifies the difference between the areas of Furniture Design
and that of Product Design at least as it is practised at NID. The
Textile Designers and the Ceramic Designers too use such hands-on
processes that encourage tactile explorations to intellectual
discourses and abstract representations that are generally used by
engineers and product designers alike. Some Product Designers however
have strayed towards the path of direct manipulation and the results
that we have seen has been quite remarkable but this is not encouraged
as a common course in the discipline since the emphasis is on objects
with complex technology or multitude of parts where the separation of
concept and execution in a segmented an clearly demarcated process
makes sense as in getting the concept from a "creative" in the form of
styling renderings and this is then followed by an army of engineers
trying to develop the detailing for the product and to meet the image
and specification target that is set before them. In the Area of
Furniture, Textile and Ceramic that approach at NID has been always
using the hands-on approach which explains the nature of workshop that
is required to service the needs of their respective faculty and
students. At NID we have always respected the different ways in which
these disciplines operate but there has been a lot of criticism about
these methods from many uninitiated persons especially students and
faculty of product design and from the engineering and scientific and
traditional management community who say that the method of work is not
scientific and is too craftsman-like to be called design. It is they
who are making a grave mistake in dismissing these time-tested
processes as either primitive or unscientific. The textile designers
and the furniture designers have repeatedly shown that they are the
ones who laugh their way to the bank with success after success in
their method of working that delivers sensitive solutions and practical
ones to boot. We must recognise that product creation and product
delivery are two completely different ball-games. One is the domain of
the designer and innovator and the other is that of the industry and
the engineer. We are I believe in the business of training designers
and those who can lead industry by example. These beings will need to
handle materials in an experimental manner and based on this
understanding they would build the mental models that inform the
designs of the future. Dyson has shown that product design too needs to
be hands-on but is anyone listening to success stories and drawing
messages from these? Our actions seem to belie this fundamental truth
about the nature of design.

 ~

UnQuote

M P Ranjan
27 september 2005 at 9.45 pm IST


Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Applications
Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India

Tel: (off) 91 79 26639692 ext 1090
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
Fax: 91 79 26605242

email: ranjanmp@...
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/

On 27-Sep-05, at 6:06 PM, Deepankar Bhattacharyya wrote:

> hi Ranjan,
>
>  I too met with Eames Demetrios at a do organised by Herman Miller at
>  IHC, Delhi, brought back many old memories, I had helped put up the
>  Nehru exhibition at Delhi in 1972.
>
>  Everyone seems to have forgotten how Charles Eames's hands-on way of
>  working with material and technology can lead to great design, we
>  are so busy working with computers these days, so much so that the
>  workshop has been given the complete go-by.
>
>  I am told that the NID workshops are also being dismantled in favour
>  of simulated experience, is this true? Can innovative design
>  thinking really happen without working with the hands,
>
>  I wonder???
>
>  regards
>
>  Deepankar Bhattacharyya
>  NID 1970-76






Yahoo! Groups Links

Dear Samson

My comments are interleaved with your texts below and these are marked
with an asterix (*) to separate my comments from yours on a plain text
viewer. See below.

Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Applications
Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India

Tel: (off) 91 79 26639692 ext 1090
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
Fax: 91 79 26605242

email: ranjanmp@...
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/

On 28-Sep-05, at 1:39 PM, samson mathai wrote:

> Dear Ranjan,
>  
> I just thought that Raja made a dig at my appreciation of Prakash's
> story of the cups of water also stating that its analysis was not
> necessary.
> Maybe I was thinking on a lower level so I got caught up emotionally.
> I too think Raja has covered a lot of ground in aesthetics in design.

* You did good to gracefully back off when your saw a flaw in your
statement. It was good form.

> But I would like to say it would be beneficial to identify the demand
> for art today instead pouring over what has happened.
> Earlier we had 'the maharaja's/kings' as patrons and we got artefacts
> like the Taj.

* Art may mean many things to many people and our engagement with the
past need not prevent us from appreciating new and innovative journeys
that are yet to be made, we may get at some wisdom..

> Today 'the market' is the patron - represented by marketing heads
> demanding shorter and cheaper development cycles.
> The market means many patrons so art becomes design to suit everyone's
> taste and make it viable.
> This scenario may not give artists/artisans the luxury (time &
> money) to focus on a single craft and deliver the best.

* It is my belief that we will soon be reaching the limits of what is
called the market driven era. People deserve better and they will find
a way to beat the lies and half-truths that is being passed off as good
marketing in many quarters. Witness that collapse of travel and
ticketing costs and that of many services that do not provide value in
the ear of increasing transparancy that is fostered by the use of
internet. the same will apply to fly by night operators who manage to
operate in many fields when information is sketchy and or concealed by
the secrets of official nature. Google maps has blown away the secrets
even from space.


> The standards of technology are changing so fast that one gets
> exhausted just catching up let alone master its application.
>
* In my view design is not about catching up with technology but more
about being informed and managing intentions, some of which should and
will drive the creation of new technology (and appropriate technology)
in many cases.
>  
> Secondly there is a cultural aspect to determining the aesthetics of
> design,its not just mastering the processing of material and taking it
> to its limits.

* I agree that nature and culture shapes materials more powerfully than
any technology can. Technology is only a means to shape materials and
culture determines what the shape shall be and that will be the success
and mission of design when we are able to push the envelope in this
regard.

> How can Indian designers design SUV's & MUV's for the
> international market when we dont have the experience to build on -
> riding them here in India.
> We don't have a decent roller coaster in India for example compared to
> the west.
> So designs have to come from the west first before we can build on
> them as is happening in China.
>
* I would like to propose some "No Automobile Zones" in many parts of
India which should be serviced by excellent public transport that is
flexible and responsive to all our needs. The automobile is a crazy and
a very temporary way of getting around and it is barely a 100 years old
anyway and in my view it is not permanent as a solution for the future
of a "careing society", pun intended. Anyone interested in developing a
working paper to make this happen?
>  
> Some time Narayan Murthy voiced his concern about the dual living
> standards of Infosys employees.The work place was best in the
> world,but their houses were our typical middle class dwellings.What
> does this do to our identity.
> I believe we in India reach out high to hang on to big tasks but
> often find our feet dangling in the air for lack of proper support to
> stand on.We are then left hanging on with one hand and working with
> the other (I wonder if this example makes sense).

* NO. Rural folks that I have met across India have a better lifestyle
than many of our Bangaloreans. Only they are told that they should
aspire to be like the city slickers, very misguided advise in my view.
>  
> In your second mail I agree we need to have an experience to work with
> material in NID.
> But shouldnt we take this further and have prototypes made in new age
> materials like plastics,glass and stainless steel (as seen in our
> malls) or lycra for textiles.

* In materials there is no concept of new and old as far as I am
concerned except that of being appropriate or not and whether they are
sensitively handled or not.

> Do we have to focus on jute and bamboo as a medium to learn design
> because we cant afford the former.Isnt it the money thing.

* For me bamboo and jute and other plants like corn stalks, rice husk
and straw and a large variety of other plant materials and the whole
concept of sustainable agriculture are a far more advanced way of
producing materials for the future when compared to the crude
extraction of materials (as in crude oil, pun intended) by the process
of mining and industrial transformation. I am writing (planning a
design primer) a book about the emergence of the post-mining economy
(which needs to foster a new think) where materials will be processed
biologically, (read grown) rather than melted, crushed and shaped by
industry and we are already in the post-industrial economy and there is
more to came. We are already making cloth, wood substitute, metal
substitutes and plastic substitutes with bamboo and there is more to
come. The whole area of food from bamboo, fuel and electricity from
bamboo and sea weeds are on the horizon, already practised in Brazil.
many high performance materials that go into many of our so called
induistrial products will be 100 percent bio-degradeable, by law, which
will in my opinion, be the biggest designer of them all, law that
shapes and provides a frame for our intentions are yet to be explored,
and it may not be designers who are leading the design race in the days
ahead, if we do not understand this shift of emphasis.
>  
> But tell us what designers in Germany (where you were recently) are
> thinking about now.

* Germany is caught up in much the same problems that we have as
designers in India. More later on this.

* However, from the air the Germany that I saw (entering Frankfurt and
Stettgart airports) was very Rural indeed , with very small settlements
(few houses) strung out along the long rail and road routes, each with
a small clutch of windmills and existing in an autonomous organisation
and with local self govenments I believe, and it looked quite
interesting from up there. On the ground there were just too many cars
in the city (jammed in the morning and the afternoon) and a short taxi
ride from the airport cost me about Rs 1250 (25 Euros) and this is not
my idea of a good life.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> Samson Mathai
>  
> With warm regards

*M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
28 September 2005 at 8.35 pm IST

Dear Sudhir

This is a very progressive move in  my opinion and it also means that
all members will need to be specially watchful of what we say on the
forum since it will be online for ever and visible to all, and the list
will be very valuable if the conributions are interesting.

I will tell my students that they can make this a rich learning
destination if they are interested in the whole area of design in
India.

I do believe that it will have a positive impact on design practice and
research when Industry comes to recognise this forum as a source for a
balanced discourse on Indian design.

Thank you Sudhir for changing the rules of engagements. This brings me
to another aspect of the management of the list. It may be a good idea
to get some members as volunteers to help you manage the list as a sort
of committee, and they can take the load off you if and when you are
too pressed to handle some warm or even hot exchanges from time to
time. I know a list that is doing just that and the people involved in
the group are located across several time zones and geographiies, and
here all the mails are moderated in almost real time, and it is working
very well with over 800 members now. Just a suggestion to keep it
sustainable and valuable and focussed in the long term. These
engagements can evolve as we go forward from here.

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
28 September 2005 at 6.15 pm IST

Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, NID Centre for Bamboo Applications
Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India

Tel: (off) 91 79 26639692 ext 1090
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
Fax: 91 79 26605242

email: ranjanmp@...
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/

On 28-Sep-05, at 5:17 PM, Sudhir Sharma wrote:

> Dear Ranjan and all,
>
>  Archives as well as current messages of this group are now visible to
>  anyone, including students.
>
>  This means you do not have to be a member to read the ongoings.
>
>  Hope it will be useful.
>
>  regards and thanks
>
>  Sudhir Sharma
>  1983-89 NID
>  Elephant Strategy + Design
>  India
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>  •  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/
>  
>  •  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> designindia-unsubscribe@...
>  
>  •  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>

Dear Ranjan and all,

Archives as well as current messages of this group are now visible to
anyone, including students.

This means you do not have to be a member to read the ongoings.

Hope it will be useful.

regards and thanks

Sudhir Sharma
1983-89 NID
Elephant Strategy + Design
India

On August 17, 2005, Michael Cronan of Cronan Design made a presentation called  Art Expands, Design Connects for

“Why Good Design Matters” lecture series, at San Francisco. 

Check this out: http://www.apple.com/pro/design/cronan/

Also see:

Design Moves the Conversation Forward By Sam McMillan

http://www.apple.com/pro/design/stoneyamashita/

Enjoy

Sagar