Dear Friends!

Wish you, your family and people around you a meaningful, peaceful, a happy new
year 2007.

Warm regards

Vasu
1992 AEP PD NID
Team Sri Design
Hyderabad

--
Srinivasarao Pattur
Founder Director & Principal Designer

Sri Design

6-3-1102/ B
Rajbhavan Road
Somajiguda
Hyderabad- 500 082
AP. INDIA

sri@...
sri.pattur@...

Telephones:
+91 40 2340 1100 (On my desk)
+91 40 2340 1101 (Studio line)
+91 40 3240 0306

Mobile:
+91 93965 06030

www.sridesign.in




----- Original Message ----
From: Sudhir Sharma <sudhirelephant@...>
To: designindia@...
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 5:52:29 AM
Subject: [designindia] Have a great Year













             Dear All,



I wish you, your family and near/dear ones a new year full of

meaningfull exchanges, passionate work and delightfull rewards.



This year resolve to collaborate, seek to solve your problems and

help to solve others. Keep the networking on.



And keep mailing to designindia to let everyone know (and feel

confident yourself) that design is alive and kicking.



Wish you all a very very happy new year.



regards



Sudhir Sharma

Designindia



Nid 1989

Elephant

Pune














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__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello All,
I'm Ranjan De, a Visual Communication Designer based at Chennai. Am from the
batch 1980-86 of NID.

Been practising for the last 18 years in the field of Advertising, Social
Communication and Publishing and Printing. Have worked for OBM, RK Swamy
BBDO, Rubecon Communications etc; all at Chennai.

For the last three years I have been a travelling Design and Basic education
motivator/educator/nurturer at 12 schools all over India and a Visiting
Faculty at DJAcademy of Design;Coimbatore, SAE  - Chennai / Bangalore /
Mumbai/Delhi; National Institute of Advertising Delhi and Shristi School of
Art, Design &Technology; Bangalore.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Get up be counted, Have you casted your Vote?

Visit POLL section of the this yahoo egroup regularily and put in your opinion,
It is surprising ho many of us think of design profession and what it really
is...

You are welcome to debate those issues, but your vote can tilt the poll...

So be there...sign of leadership is that they are always there.....

lets remove some myths from our profession...POLL...and often.

regards
PS: you need a yahoo id for polling. In case you do not want yahoo id...just
mail in your opinion.

hi,

welcome to design india egroup. I am sudhir sharma and i moderate this group.
I was in NID during 1983-1989 time and then started elephant design with four
other graduates.

It will be very nice if u can post a brief introduction of yr self on the group
as yr first message. Where are u, what are u doing, where did u study and any
issues u may want to disscuss. this will help others and friends to know that u
are there and to know u.

Also chk out pictures, update yr address in database phonebook as well as take
part in Polls. You have a choice of not recieving mails in yr mailbox and chk
them online...if u need any help on this count let me know.

the membership to this group is through invitation only...only u can invite yr
friend, or whomever u think worthy of being on a professional designers group.
DO send me a mail if you want someone to be invited on the group.

thank you once again and keep posting messages.

regards
sudhir sharma

hi,

just reminding a small protocol which if followed would make our identification
precise and contextual.

Please end yr post or mail (everytime) as folows:

Your name + surname (now)
school , your discpline
Year of graduating
now at company
city

for example:

Sudhir Sharma
NID, VC (or visual communication)
1989
Elephant Design
Pune

regards

Sudhir Sharma
NID, VC (or visual communication)
1989
Elephant Design
Pune

From the internet I just learned about passing of Chandralekha, the
legendary Indian dancer who has done much to provoke new directions
in the field of dance. I am sure that her associates in the field of
dance will narrate their shared experiences. I want to take this
opportunity to bring into focus an aspect of her life that the design
community must learn more about.

In 1981 I had the opportunity to visit Skills, a center set up by
Chandralekha, Dashrath Patel, Sadanand Menon and others, to train
artisans, dancers, poster-painters and actors for street theatres.
Dashrath Was one of my teachers at NID. As everyone who has come in
contact with him, he has always been a radical maverick designer with
the ability to inspire younger generation of designers, as not many
others have done since his time at the NID. I was inspired by the
team at Skills and saw it as an incubator of ideas for social
transformation with a focus on grass roots level activism in
creativity. Skills was later closed down by the State government in
August of 1982, charging it with sedition. Some of us who are
familiar with organizations that work at grass roots level, know that
challenging establishment is not easy, especially in a state where
personality cult has always dominated the state politics and any
suggestion of "free expression" and propagation of "Human rights"  is
frowned upon and ruthlessly suppressed.

Chandralekha was one of such luminaries from the field of art, who
always challenged social conventions through creative works. Though I
did not personally know her, I was definitely inspired by her
commitment to her ideas and her passion for directing her creativity
in a manner that forces people to question social status quo,
especially social structures that delegate women to their traditional
roles.

I am sure that Chandralekha's life will continue to inspire many
generations. Hopefully, her friends will document the story of her
life for the benefit of future generations.

Dashrath, Sadanand and other members of the design community who are
close to Chandralekha, please accept my condolences.


Thanks


Uday Dandavate

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Atul
Addendum to the note on small businesses--"with a little help from my
friends..."
YouTube founders had a lots of connections with Paylpal folks and
consequently it invariably is an extended network of connections

This article only has an abstract as it a Times Select archives

"It pays to have pals in silicon Valley"
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10C11FB35540C748DDDA90994DE4044\
82



>>> atulnjoshi@... 12/29/06 10:21 AM >>>
Dear Bala,
   Its true that large corporates will not wince or rethink due to
service tax. We have the same experience when we work with them.
However, the nature of design business typically attracts 2 types of
clients- 1) large corporates who are trying to differentiate through
design for product differentiation in an already saturated market 2)
small businesses who are trying to differentiate through design
innovation and through invention. You may notice, especially in the I.T.
and devices domain, about 60 to 70% successful ventures have been small
startups. Take google for example... or even hotmail. These offices
began in garages and became extremely successfull product ventures
later. We have been evolving a business model for small entrepreneurs
with a high buy-in for design. We call this a "strategic design
partnership for innovation". Typically these startups have tight budgets
but have more FAITH in your design process than any top level management
in large companies.
  Typically with smaller businesses you tend to work with the owner or
the chief investor himself. The amount of design freedom and strategic
design impact on the product is very high due to this.
   In some recent posts people were discussing about "elitest" nature of
design services. I believe that design services should be available for
both type of clients at a good price. It is the second type that get hit
by a cost creep of 12% tax soon perhaps 14%. Its purely government
compliance... nothing anyone can do about... or perhaps we can if tried.
But if it is coming in the way (if not killing) of entreprenuership in
product innovation, is it really "su-sashan" (good governance)?
Wonder if you have got that feeling while working on such a project for
an entrepreneur who had a great business idea.
   Regards,
   Atul N Joshi
   Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd.
   Communication Design 97 NID, Bentton Research Scholar 2001.




"Bala (www.ticketdesign.com)" <balamahajan@...> wrote:
           Dear Atul,

On the bigger picture....Service tax is an issue and if some sops are
given..it will be a advantage for smaller clients. In our expereince
corporates and
MNCs really do not have any issue with paying the tax amounts.
Infact it doesnt even come into the calculations until the bill are
raised.

I dont think that service tax amount plays a hinging role in your
clients deciding to go with any other non-Indian designer / design
company.

regards,
Bala (Ticket Design)
www.ticketdesign.com
NID PD 91-96, Pune

On 12/29/06, Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote:
> Dear all,
> Most designers, especially designpreneurs on this e-group will agree
on
> the growing concern with service tax on design services in our
country. Few
> days back I read a report in ET that the governement is planning to
hike
> services tax up to 14%.
> It is an uphill task to demonstrate the value of design to clients,
> coupled with the limited human resource of professional designers in
this
> country and their loaded salaries. In my opinion, service tax is
affecting
> the cost structures of an already hard-to-get-business. Design
copmpanies
> have a heavy overhead of being design missionaries to clients. The
design
> awareness growing in corporates is slowly on the rise, though "slowly"
being
> the important word. The effect on costing of design projects due to
service
> tax is posing 2 threats-
> 1) It sets in stronger barriers for new entrepreneurs in design by
> increasing their costs straight up by 12-14%. For Indian design to
become a
> reputed consulting serive business, everyone knows we need many many
more
> deisgn companies in this country. Only when competetion sets in and
more
> standard business practices in design emerge can we truly say that
design
> consulting has become an "industry" now. We all are more or less niche
> businesses in our own design domains. We need more design
entreprenuers.
> 2) If you service internaitonal clients, the design services fall
under
> "service for exports" category and is exempt from service tax. This
enables
> designers to compete better internationally, bringing in the era of
design
> outsourcing.
> But this is a boon and a curse. What is wrong about it?-
> - Many international clients are shifting service and manufacturing
bases
> to India. The demand for design employment and consulting is expected
to
> rise, however, the outflow of new design human resource is nowhere in
> comparision. The quality of fresh blood design resource is not trained
> enough straight out of schools. I would say atleast 2-3 years of
industrial
> experience matters before fresh blood can start delivering
international
> quality design consulting.
> - SEZs and exports sops are getting more and more expensive. These are
> mainly geared for companies with multi million dollar turnovers.
Typically,
> design business tend to be smaller in size. Largest design companies
tend to
> be about 150 design consultant strong. even these companies may not
afford
> to base themselves in SEZs. Internaitonal business development add
large
> overheads on top of that.
> - The effect of this situation is, the cost of design resource is
> increasing way too rapidly but there is fall in quality of design
> consulting. We will soon reach a point where the cost of design
consulting
> in India will be comparable to international markets, but quality of
human
> resource will not be. Our universities produce ten-1000s of engineers
every
> year, but not even 100s of designers every year. This means either
design
> companies have to invest heavily in training own resources, or serious
> investments in scalable design education. Both of which will require
decades
> before its a reality. Are we missing the bus already?
> - International clients would increasingly favour non-indian designers
to
> work on their products, due to the lack of the cost benefit. Secondly,
the
> scaling of design services in Indian economy is a recent phenomenon,
and in
> comparision to international scenarios design in India is an
"emerging" line
> of business. We dont have a industrial culture of being a design
service
> country... unlike I.T. or management consulting. It is evident why IT
> companies are draining NID and IDC graduates... but not design
consulting
> compaines.
> - The hike in payscales and overall design costs is making it more and
> more difficult for design companies to serve Indian clients. This is
> worsened by service tax. This will eventually affect in farther
distancing
> of designers working for local markets affecting quality of overall
local
> design.
>
> This is a serious issue in my opinion. Does anyone have any ideas what
> organizations can help escalate this issues. Can CII-NID help in
anyways?
> For a starter, can Design companies put a case to the Gov for service
tax
> and income tax sops for some years for design companies? Especially
the
> rising service tax to 14% calls for some serious action on behalf of
design
> consulting companies. Focusing only on international markets is not
entirely
> possible in design business. People will agree that for contextual
> innovation and design, proximity to users and markets creates a hughe
plus
> point. In our experience, when we conduct user studies and design
research
> onsite for international customers, the cost benefit of outsourcing
design
> is heavily reduced. More so if you are working for Indian companies
selling
> products in international markets. Not only do they have to pay
> international overheads, but also service tax in India.
>
> Someone needs to bell the cat, (P Chidambaram :-)) and get tax sops
out
> for design companies.
>
> Suggestions are welcome. We at Design Incubator are ready to share
> efforts. What take do other design companies on this forum have?
> Is Dr. Koshy reading this? :-) Designprenuer in distress!
>
> Regards,
> Atul Joshi,
> Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd,
> Communication Design 97 NID, Benetton Research Scholar 2001.
>
>
> I
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Atul N Joshi
> Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
> Mail to: atul.joshi@...
> For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
regards,

Bala (9822083802)
Ticket Design
Ph 91-20-27297985
Fax 91-20-27298168
email bala@...
www.ticketdesign.com





-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Atul N Joshi
   Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
Mail to: atul.joshi@...
For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com

  __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hi Sudhir & all designindia group members,

Wish you all a happy and prosperous new year.

the past year has marked remarkable changes in the
field of design in India, lets hope that the coming
year continous the spirit and goes beyond
imaginations!

keep in touch
kind regards
shreyas
NID Product design -05


--- Sudhir Sharma <sudhirelephant@...> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I wish you, your family and near/dear ones a new
> year full of
> meaningfull exchanges, passionate work and
> delightfull rewards.
>
> This year resolve to collaborate, seek to solve your
> problems and
> help to solve others. Keep the networking on.
>
> And keep mailing to designindia to let everyone know
> (and feel
> confident yourself) that design is alive and
> kicking.
>
> Wish you all a very very happy new year.
>
> regards
>
> Sudhir Sharma
> Designindia
>
> Nid 1989
> Elephant
> Pune
>
>




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Hii,


Wish you all a very happy new year

http://www.icq.com/img/friendship/static/card_16961_rs.swf

Vijay Jaiswal
Dy Manager-Product Development
Eicher Motors

Think Big, Think fast
     Think ahead,
     Ideas are no ones monopoly...
                                             -Dhirubhai Ambani


Vijay Jaiswal
Asst. Manager,
Product Design and Development
Eicher Motors Ltd.
Pithampur
Indore
Mobile: 09893270277

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear All,

I wish you, your family and near/dear ones a new year full of
meaningfull exchanges, passionate work and delightfull rewards.

This year resolve to collaborate, seek to solve your problems and
help to solve others. Keep the networking on.

And keep mailing to designindia to let everyone know (and feel
confident yourself) that design is alive and kicking.

Wish you all a very very happy new year.

regards

Sudhir Sharma
Designindia

Nid 1989
Elephant
Pune

Hello everybody,

Let me introduce myself to this egroup.
I am Unmesh Patki.  Product designer from IIsc. 2001-2003 batch.
worked for L&T for 2 years. 2003-2005.   currently i am with Desmania Design
Pvt. Ltd. Mumbai Branch.

Nice to join the group.

Regard,
Unmesh


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Services today account for well over 50% of GDP and is taxed at far lower rates
compared to manufacturing. VAT is not yet applicable to services but probably
will be soon and eventually manufacturing and services will have an integrated
structure whereby one can claim sales tax payments against service tax. For this
to happen the difference in rates of tax between services and manufacturing must
tend towards  zero.

Current economic conditions can only see the services sector growing faster than
manufacturing and is increasingly become the major component of pricing for end
users.

Entrepreneurs must see this and not look at services, including design services
as afterthoughts. They can't any more. It is no longer the industrial age even
in India.

I want to see the day when design service costs a major chunk of end cost and is
taxed accordingly. That will reflect the true value of 'design'.

Welcome to the age of design and creativity.

regards

Deepankar Bhattacharyya
Images Communications
NID 1970-76



Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote:                                  Dear
Bala,
    Its true that large corporates will not wince or rethink due to service tax.
We have the same experience when we work with them. However, the nature of
design business typically attracts 2 types of clients- 1) large corporates who
are trying to differentiate through design for product differentiation in an
already saturated market 2) small businesses who are trying to differentiate
through design innovation and through invention. You may notice, especially in
the I.T. and devices domain, about 60 to 70% successful ventures have been small
startups. Take google for example... or even hotmail. These offices began in
garages and became extremely successfull product ventures later. We have been
evolving a business model for small entrepreneurs with a high buy-in for design.
We call this a "strategic design partnership for innovation". Typically these
startups have tight budgets but have more FAITH in your design process than any
top level management in large companies.
   Typically with smaller businesses you tend to work with the owner or the chief
investor himself. The amount of design freedom and strategic design impact on
the product is very high due to this.
    In some recent posts people were discussing about "elitest" nature of design
services. I believe that design services should be available for both type of
clients at a good price. It is the second type that get hit by a cost creep of
12% tax soon perhaps 14%. Its purely government compliance... nothing anyone can
do about... or perhaps we can if tried. But if it is coming in the way (if not
killing) of entreprenuership in product innovation, is it really "su-sashan"
(good governance)?
  Wonder if you have got that feeling while working on such a project for an
entrepreneur who had a great business idea.
    Regards,
    Atul N Joshi
    Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd.
    Communication Design 97 NID, Bentton Research Scholar 2001.




  "Bala (www.ticketdesign.com)" <balamahajan@...> wrote:
            Dear Atul,

  On the bigger picture....Service tax is an issue and if some sops are
  given..it will be a advantage for smaller clients. In our expereince corporates
and
  MNCs really do not have any issue with paying the tax amounts.
  Infact it doesnt even come into the calculations until the bill are raised.

  I dont think that service tax amount plays a hinging role in your clients
deciding to go with any other non-Indian designer / design company.

  regards,
  Bala (Ticket Design)
  www.ticketdesign.com
  NID PD 91-96, Pune

  On 12/29/06, Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote:
  > Dear all,
  > Most designers, especially designpreneurs on this e-group will agree on
  > the growing concern with service tax on design services in our country. Few
  > days back I read a report in ET that the governement is planning to hike
  > services tax up to 14%.
  > It is an uphill task to demonstrate the value of design to clients,
  > coupled with the limited human resource of professional designers in this
  > country and their loaded salaries. In my opinion, service tax is affecting
  > the cost structures of an already hard-to-get-business. Design copmpanies
  > have a heavy overhead of being design missionaries to clients. The design
  > awareness growing in corporates is slowly on the rise, though "slowly" being
  > the important word. The effect on costing of design projects due to service
  > tax is posing 2 threats-
  > 1) It sets in stronger barriers for new entrepreneurs in design by
  > increasing their costs straight up by 12-14%. For Indian design to become a
  > reputed consulting serive business, everyone knows we need many many more
  > deisgn companies in this country. Only when competetion sets in and more
  > standard business practices in design emerge can we truly say that design
  > consulting has become an "industry" now. We all are more or less niche
  > businesses in our own design domains. We need more design entreprenuers.
  > 2) If you service internaitonal clients, the design services fall under
  > "service for exports" category and is exempt from service tax. This enables
  > designers to compete better internationally, bringing in the era of design
  > outsourcing.
  > But this is a boon and a curse. What is wrong about it?-
  > - Many international clients are shifting service and manufacturing bases
  > to India. The demand for design employment and consulting is expected to
  > rise, however, the outflow of new design human resource is nowhere in
  > comparision. The quality of fresh blood design resource is not trained
  > enough straight out of schools. I would say atleast 2-3 years of industrial
  > experience matters before fresh blood can start delivering international
  > quality design consulting.
  > - SEZs and exports sops are getting more and more expensive. These are
  > mainly geared for companies with multi million dollar turnovers. Typically,
  > design business tend to be smaller in size. Largest design companies tend to
  > be about 150 design consultant strong. even these companies may not afford
  > to base themselves in SEZs. Internaitonal business development add large
  > overheads on top of that.
  > - The effect of this situation is, the cost of design resource is
  > increasing way too rapidly but there is fall in quality of design
  > consulting. We will soon reach a point where the cost of design consulting
  > in India will be comparable to international markets, but quality of human
  > resource will not be. Our universities produce ten-1000s of engineers every
  > year, but not even 100s of designers every year. This means either design
  > companies have to invest heavily in training own resources, or serious
  > investments in scalable design education. Both of which will require decades
  > before its a reality. Are we missing the bus already?
  > - International clients would increasingly favour non-indian designers to
  > work on their products, due to the lack of the cost benefit. Secondly, the
  > scaling of design services in Indian economy is a recent phenomenon, and in
  > comparision to international scenarios design in India is an "emerging" line
  > of business. We dont have a industrial culture of being a design service
  > country... unlike I.T. or management consulting. It is evident why IT
  > companies are draining NID and IDC graduates... but not design consulting
  > compaines.
  > - The hike in payscales and overall design costs is making it more and
  > more difficult for design companies to serve Indian clients. This is
  > worsened by service tax. This will eventually affect in farther distancing
  > of designers working for local markets affecting quality of overall local
  > design.
  >
  > This is a serious issue in my opinion. Does anyone have any ideas what
  > organizations can help escalate this issues. Can CII-NID help in anyways?
  > For a starter, can Design companies put a case to the Gov for service tax
  > and income tax sops for some years for design companies? Especially the
  > rising service tax to 14% calls for some serious action on behalf of design
  > consulting companies. Focusing only on international markets is not entirely
  > possible in design business. People will agree that for contextual
  > innovation and design, proximity to users and markets creates a hughe plus
  > point. In our experience, when we conduct user studies and design research
  > onsite for international customers, the cost benefit of outsourcing design
  > is heavily reduced. More so if you are working for Indian companies selling
  > products in international markets. Not only do they have to pay
  > international overheads, but also service tax in India.
  >
  > Someone needs to bell the cat, (P Chidambaram :-)) and get tax sops out
  > for design companies.
  >
  > Suggestions are welcome. We at Design Incubator are ready to share
  > efforts. What take do other design companies on this forum have?
  > Is Dr. Koshy reading this? :-) Designprenuer in distress!
  >
  > Regards,
  > Atul Joshi,
  > Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd,
  > Communication Design 97 NID, Benetton Research Scholar 2001.
  >
  >
  > I
  >
  >
  > ----------------------------------------------------------
  > Atul N Joshi
  > Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
  > Mail to: atul.joshi@...
  > For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com
  >
  > __________________________________________________
  > Do You Yahoo!?
  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
  > http://mail.yahoo.com
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >

  --
  regards,

  Bala (9822083802)
  Ticket Design
  Ph 91-20-27297985
  Fax 91-20-27298168
  email bala@...
  www.ticketdesign.com

  ----------------------------------------------------------
  Atul N Joshi
    Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
  Mail to: atul.joshi@...
  For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com

  __________________________________________________
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
  http://mail.yahoo.com

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





  __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Uday,

Sounds good.  There are various existing fora such as  International
Fair Trade groups, IFAT, and others internationally ,as well as their
Indian chapters. EU , DFID and others can be roped in. There are
large business houses internationally such as Interface looking at
not just environmental but also socially relevant production.
Resources on all those having made a start, others wanting to start,
and absolute newcomers from the field of business could be pooled
together.  In India institutions like ICICI  bank, ILFS are looking
at special purpose vehicles - public private initiatives , to bridge
the large social gaps. Let commerce lead the way, the government will
automatically come in. The NGO's are of course there waiting for the
connections to happen. In India most large corporates right from
TATA, Infosys , Wipro onwards have their Trusts trying to do things
to bridge the divide. Can design thinking help?

We are extremely lucky in India we have a great base to work with.
Looking at Africa, its so difficult to see where to start, though
there is stuff happening.

The bottom up and top down initiatives seem like a good idea.

Rgds neelam.


On Dec 29, 2006, at 11:36 PM, Uday Dandavate wrote:

> Members of the DesignIndia forum
>
> Last year I was invited to speak at a conference of Design Promotion
> agencies from around Europe, which was held in Paris. The experience
> was very revealing in terms of the kind of investment European
> Governments is making in Design. Robin Edman, the head of the Design
> promotion agency in Sweden, who was also at the Design with India
> conference in Delhi, was one of the speakers.
>
> I propose that we do a similar roundtable in India invite
> representatives from around the world and get top leaders of
> government, business and NGO's together for a roundtable on
> "Development through Design".
>
> If you think this is a good idea, I propose that DesignIndia Forum
> should take a lead in organizing this event, and I will be glad to
> promise my involvement in terms of advice and organization.
>
> On a side note, we should contine to make the Design with India
> conference in India and the strategy sessions around the world as
> the grass roots level inititative (bottoms up) , while the
> Development through Design as a top down initiative.
>
> Any takers?
>
> Uday
>
> On Dec 29, 2006, at 11:21 AM, M P Ranjan wrote:
>
> > Dear Atul
> >
> > Your point about tax sops for a nascent industry, in this case
> design
> > services for small and medium sectors and for social and rural
> > sectors,
> > NGO's etc., does need Government support and should by all logical
> > arguments attract tax sops and even attract government grants and
> > incentives if these can be presented convincingly and collectively.
> > This is precisely where the design profession in India has failed
> > consistently, since, we have not been able to build and sustain any
> > form of professional body that can lobby with Government and
> Industry
> > associations to make such sops and incentives a reality. Small
> > thinking
> > and selfish actions have been the norm it seems and it is now
> time to
> > think and act collectively for the larger good if the profession
> is to
> > establish itself and be effective across the vast spectrum of
> areas of
> > need in the country and not only at the elite level.
> >
> > The new organisation in Bangalore and others in the making may hold
> > promise for the future, but I agree that you must act and act
> soon on
> > the service tax front and a body is to be formed to lobby Government
> > and make representations to the Government on many aspects of policy
> > and design support. The Design Council Wales has started a
> > programme of
> > "Design Support" where the Govermnment and the Welsh Parliament has
> > drafted laws that provide support systems to facilitate small
> > businesses to actively engage design professionals to change the
> > equation in the competitibve landscape in which they have to compete
> > fiercely with large and in many cases multi-national giants on
> > products
> > and services that need to stand out in the tough climate that
> prevails
> > in these open markets. I was invited to speak at the Design Support
> > Conference at Design Wales in 2004 and this year they had another
> > conference on then same theme which is well documented as a podcast
> > which can be downloaded and listened to from this site below: The 1
> > hour podcast covers many of the strategies that Wales has innovated
> > and
> > they work with the SEE Design Foundation that looks at Design
> Support
> > across Europe. We need to build a local network that can be heard
> and
> > lobby with Government at an active level with the partner SME's and
> > Rural Enterprises who will also benefit greatly from this move.
> >
> > <http://www.seedesign.org/seedesign/about.aspx>
> > <http://www.seedesign.org/seedesign/news.aspx?id=24>
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> > ----------
> >
> > ----------
> >
> > How to Subscribe to the IWDS Podcast:
> >
> > Subscribing to podcasts using "podcatching" software makes it
> > relatively easy to automatically receive audio files on your
> computer
> > and download them to your portable MP3 player.
> >
> > To subscribe: Copy and paste this URL following the instructions in
> > your podcatching software:
> >
> > http://www.seedesign.org/seedesign/RSS/SeeDesignPodCast.xml
> >
> > If you use iTunes: Open iTunes Select Menu > Advanced > Subscribe to
> > Podcast In the URL screen, enter:
> >
> > http://www.seedesign.org/seedesign/RSS/SeeDesignPodCast.xml
> >
> > Click OK.
> >
> > UnQuote
> >
> > Great record of the discussions at the 2006 conference of Design
> > Support
> >
> > With warm regards
> >
> > M P Ranjan
> > from my office at NID
> > 29 December 2006 at 9.45 pm IST
> >
> > Prof M P Ranjan
> > Faculty of Design
> > Head, Centre for Bamboo Initiatives at NID (CFBI-NID)
> > Chairman, GeoVisualisation Task Group (DST, Govt. of India)
> > (2006-2008)
> > Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
> > National Institute of Design
> > Paldi
> > Ahmedabad 380 007 India
> >
> > Tel: (off) 91 79 26623692 ext 1090 (changed in January 2006)
> > Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
> > Fax: 91 79 26605242
> >
> > email: ranjanmp@...
> > web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/
> > web domain: http://www.ranjanmp.in
> >
> > On 29-Dec-06, at 8:51 PM, Atul N Joshi wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Bala,
> > > Its true that large corporates will not wince or rethink due to
> > > service tax. We have the same experience when we work with them.
> > > However, the nature of design business typically attracts 2
> types of
> > > clients- 1) large corporates who are trying to differentiate
> through
> > > design for product differentiation in an already saturated
> market 2)
> > > small businesses who are trying to differentiate through design
> > > innovation and through invention. You may notice, especially in
> the
> > > I.T. and devices domain, about 60 to 70% successful ventures have
> > been
> > > small startups. Take google for example... or even hotmail. These
> > > offices began in garages and became extremely successfull product
> > > ventures later. We have been evolving a business model for small
> > > entrepreneurs with a high buy-in for design. We call this a
> > "strategic
> > > design partnership for innovation". Typically these startups have
> > > tight budgets but have more FAITH in your design process than any
> > top
> > > level management in large companies.
> > > Typically with smaller businesses you tend to work with the
> owner or
> > > the chief investor himself. The amount of design freedom and
> > strategic
> > > design impact on the product is very high due to this.
> > > In some recent posts people were discussing about "elitest"
> > nature of
> > > design services. I believe that design services should be
> available
> > > for both type of clients at a good price. It is the second type
> that
> > > get hit by a cost creep of 12% tax soon perhaps 14%. Its purely
> > > government compliance... nothing anyone can do about... or
> > perhaps we
> > > can if tried. But if it is coming in the way (if not killing) of
> > > entreprenuership in product innovation, is it really "su-
> > sashan" (good
> > > governance)?
> > > Wonder if you have got that feeling while working on such a
> project
> > > for an entrepreneur who had a great business idea.
> > > Regards,
> > > Atul N Joshi
> > > Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd.
> > > Communication Design 97 NID, Bentton Research Scholar 2001.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Bala (www.ticketdesign.com)" <balamahajan@...> wrote:
> > > Dear Atul,
> > >
> > > On the bigger picture....Service tax is an issue and if some sops
> > are
> > > given..it will be a advantage for smaller clients. In our
> expereince
> > > corporates and
> > > MNCs really do not have any issue with paying the tax amounts.
> > > Infact it doesnt even come into the calculations until the bill
> are
> > > raised.
> > >
> > > I dont think that service tax amount plays a hinging role in your
> > > clients deciding to go with any other non-Indian designer / design
> > > company.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > > Bala (Ticket Design)
> > > www.ticketdesign.com
> > > NID PD 91-96, Pune
> > >
> > > On 12/29/06, Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote:
> > > > Dear all,
> > > > Most designers, especially designpreneurs on this e-group will
> > > agree on
> > > > the growing concern with service tax on design services in our
> > > country. Few
> > > > days back I read a report in ET that the governement is
> > planning to
> > > hike
> > > > services tax up to 14%.
> > > > It is an uphill task to demonstrate the value of design to
> > clients,
> > > > coupled with the limited human resource of professional
> designers
> > > in this
> > > > country and their loaded salaries. In my opinion, service tax is
> > > affecting
> > > > the cost structures of an already hard-to-get-business. Design
> > > copmpanies
> > > > have a heavy overhead of being design missionaries to
> clients. The
> > > design
> > > > awareness growing in corporates is slowly on the rise, though
> > > "slowly" being
> > > > the important word. The effect on costing of design projects
> > due to
> > > service
> > > > tax is posing 2 threats-
> > > > 1) It sets in stronger barriers for new entrepreneurs in
> design by
> > > > increasing their costs straight up by 12-14%. For Indian
> design to
> > > become a
> > > > reputed consulting serive business, everyone knows we need many
> > > many more
> > > > deisgn companies in this country. Only when competetion sets in
> > and
> > > more
> > > > standard business practices in design emerge can we truly say
> that
> > > design
> > > > consulting has become an "industry" now. We all are more or less
> > > niche
> > > > businesses in our own design domains. We need more design
> > > entreprenuers.
> > > > 2) If you service internaitonal clients, the design services
> fall
> > > under
> > > > "service for exports" category and is exempt from service tax.
> > This
> > > enables
> > > > designers to compete better internationally, bringing in the
> > era of
> > > design
> > > > outsourcing.
> > > > But this is a boon and a curse. What is wrong about it?-
> > > > - Many international clients are shifting service and
> > manufacturing
> > > bases
> > > > to India. The demand for design employment and consulting is
> > > expected to
> > > > rise, however, the outflow of new design human resource is
> nowhere
> > > in
> > > > comparision. The quality of fresh blood design resource is not
> > > trained
> > > > enough straight out of schools. I would say atleast 2-3 years of
> > > industrial
> > > > experience matters before fresh blood can start delivering
> > > international
> > > > quality design consulting.
> > > > - SEZs and exports sops are getting more and more expensive.
> These
> > > are
> > > > mainly geared for companies with multi million dollar turnovers.
> > > Typically,
> > > > design business tend to be smaller in size. Largest design
> > > companies tend to
> > > > be about 150 design consultant strong. even these companies may
> > not
> > > afford
> > > > to base themselves in SEZs. Internaitonal business
> development add
> > > large
> > > > overheads on top of that.
> > > > - The effect of this situation is, the cost of design
> resource is
> > > > increasing way too rapidly but there is fall in quality of
> design
> > > > consulting. We will soon reach a point where the cost of design
> > > consulting
> > > > in India will be comparable to international markets, but
> quality
> > > of human
> > > > resource will not be. Our universities produce ten-1000s of
> > > engineers every
> > > > year, but not even 100s of designers every year. This means
> either
> > > design
> > > > companies have to invest heavily in training own resources, or
> > > serious
> > > > investments in scalable design education. Both of which will
> > > require decades
> > > > before its a reality. Are we missing the bus already?
> > > > - International clients would increasingly favour non-indian
> > > designers to
> > > > work on their products, due to the lack of the cost benefit.
> > > Secondly, the
> > > > scaling of design services in Indian economy is a recent
> > > phenomenon, and in
> > > > comparision to international scenarios design in India is an
> > > "emerging" line
> > > > of business. We dont have a industrial culture of being a design
> > > service
> > > > country... unlike I.T. or management consulting. It is
> evident why
> > > IT
> > > > companies are draining NID and IDC graduates... but not design
> > > consulting
> > > > compaines.
> > > > - The hike in payscales and overall design costs is making it
> more
> > > and
> > > > more difficult for design companies to serve Indian clients.
> > This is
> > > > worsened by service tax. This will eventually affect in farther
> > > distancing
> > > > of designers working for local markets affecting quality of
> > overall
> > > local
> > > > design.
> > > >
> > > > This is a serious issue in my opinion. Does anyone have any
> ideas
> > > what
> > > > organizations can help escalate this issues. Can CII-NID help in
> > > anyways?
> > > > For a starter, can Design companies put a case to the Gov for
> > > service tax
> > > > and income tax sops for some years for design companies?
> > Especially
> > > the
> > > > rising service tax to 14% calls for some serious action on
> behalf
> > > of design
> > > > consulting companies. Focusing only on international markets is
> > not
> > > entirely
> > > > possible in design business. People will agree that for
> contextual
> > > > innovation and design, proximity to users and markets creates a
> > > hughe plus
> > > > point. In our experience, when we conduct user studies and
> design
> > > research
> > > > onsite for international customers, the cost benefit of
> > outsourcing
> > > design
> > > > is heavily reduced. More so if you are working for Indian
> > companies
> > > selling
> > > > products in international markets. Not only do they have to pay
> > > > international overheads, but also service tax in India.
> > > >
> > > > Someone needs to bell the cat, (P Chidambaram :-)) and get tax
> > sops
> > > out
> > > > for design companies.
> > > >
> > > > Suggestions are welcome. We at Design Incubator are ready to
> share
> > > > efforts. What take do other design companies on this forum have?
> > > > Is Dr. Koshy reading this? :-) Designprenuer in distress!
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Atul Joshi,
> > > > Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd,
> > > > Communication Design 97 NID, Benetton Research Scholar 2001.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Atul N Joshi
> > > > Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
> > > > Mail to: atul.joshi@...
> > > > For more information please visit : http://
> www.designincubator.com
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > regards,
> > >
> > > Bala (9822083802)
> > > Ticket Design
> > > Ph 91-20-27297985
> > > Fax 91-20-27298168
> > > email bala@...
> > > www.ticketdesign.com
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > Atul N Joshi
> > > Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
> > > Mail to: atul.joshi@...
> > > For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Job offer for Industrial Designers at M/s. MIDCO Ltd.



Please reply only to  <mailto:s_prakash@...>
s_prakash@..., kindly do not reply to the mailing list or the
undersigned.



M/s. MIDCO Ltd. ( <http://www.midcopumps.com/> http://www.midcopumps.com),
one of the leading petrol pump manufacturers in India, requires Industrial
Designers at Senior Position with 3 years of experience as well as fresh
Industrial Designer to work in their Engineering Department.



The Industrial Design section of M/s. MIDCO Ltd., has a very good team of
CAD experts with capability to turn ideas in to products effectively in a
short time.  All other functional departments have excellent networking with
the Design Department for support and implementation of new projects.



Interested applicants can forward their resume & portfolio to:
  <mailto:s_prakash@...> s_prakash@...



Please find the summary for the position below:-

Developing new designs for ever changing market needs of the petrol pump
industry.



Co-ordinate the product development from idea stage to manufacture.



Develop new products for contemporary applications in the energy sector like
LPG & CNG dispensing.



Qualification:



Masters of Design (M.Des.) in Industrial Design from IITs & IISc. or PEP &
AEP from NID.

3+ years of experience in the area of new product design and development.



Use of Computer Aided Design (CAD).



Strong visualization / conceptualization abilities, creativity and product
development capability.

Strong organizational, multi-tasking and time management skills.



Salary:



For Beginner: Rs.4-5 Lacs CTC



For Sr. Position: The salary will be matched to experience.


Best Regards,

Prof. B. K. Chakravarthy

Design Consultant, M/s. MIDCO Ltd.

Associate Professor

Industrial Design Centre, IIT Bombay

Powai, Mumbai - 400 076 (INDIA)

Tel.: +91-22-2576 7860

Fax: +91-22-2576 7803



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hi,

Shrikant Nivasarkar has sent this information on a very novel and
perhaps first time big money award design competition.

I am uploading the pdf brochure as well.

regards
Sudhir Sharma
........................................

Institute of Indian Interior Designers is organizing a Furniture
Design Competition, sponsored by Godrej , called IIID-GODREJ
INNOVATIONS

There are two categories of entries as under.

1. Workstation Design.
2. Office chair.

The competition will be conducted at two stages.

First stage will be for submission of designs without the prototypes.
Last date of submission for the first stage is 20th January 2007.

Second stage of submission will be of shortlisted designs from the
first stage, who will be required to submit the prototypes.

Godrej will support the making of prototypes if required , for the
shortlisted entries.

Winners of both the categories will receive an award of Rs. 2 lacs,
and there will be two consolation prizes of Rs. 50,000 each in  each
category.

Godrej will enter in to an agreement with the first prize winner,
for the production of the design, with a suitable royalty for 30
months  @ not exceeding 2.5 % .

Jury for the evaluation comprises of renowned designers from India
and Europe.

Mr. Ravi Hazara      -   IIT Mumbai.                          -
Mr. Kumar Vyas.     -  Ahmedabad.
Mr. Ratan Bataliboy.-  Mumbai.
Mr. Olle Anderson. -   Sweden
Mr. E. Venkat         -    Mumbai.- Godrej

For the first time such competition is held in India, and designers
should take part in this.

For any additional information and Entry forms
Contact
Institute of Indian Interior Designers,
109 Sumer Kendra, 1st Floor,
Pandurang Budhkar Marg,
Worli, Mumbai 400 018.

TEL. NO. +91 22 24950653
  FAX         +91 22 24953684

Contact person : 1.  Mr. Jatin Mehta- Executive Secretary.
                  2.  Mr. Tushar Desai-
                                 Chairman Competition committee-
+919869444700

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the designindia
group.

   File        : /Ahmedabad Declaration1979.pdf
   Uploaded by : ranjanmp <ranjanmp@...>
   Description : UNIDO ICSID Ahmedabad Declaration on Design for Development 1979
at NID

You can access this file at the URL:
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia/files/Ahmedabad%20Declaration1979.p\
df

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/in/groups/files

Regards,

ranjanmp <ranjanmp@...>

Members of the DesignIndia forum

Last year I was invited to speak at a conference of Design Promotion
agencies from around Europe, which was held in Paris. The experience
was very revealing in terms of the kind of investment European
Governments is making in Design. Robin Edman, the head of the Design
promotion agency in Sweden, who was also at the Design with India
conference in Delhi, was one of the speakers.

I propose that we do a similar roundtable in India invite
representatives from around the world and get top leaders of
government,  business and NGO's together for a roundtable on
"Development through Design".

If you think this is a good idea, I propose that DesignIndia Forum
should take a lead in organizing this event, and I will be glad to
promise my involvement in terms of advice and organization.

On a side note, we should contine to make the Design with India
conference in India and the strategy sessions around  the world as
the grass roots level inititative (bottoms up) , while the
Development through Design as a top down initiative.

Any takers?

Uday

On Dec 29, 2006, at 11:21 AM, M P Ranjan wrote:

> Dear Atul
>
> Your point about tax sops for a nascent industry, in this case design
> services for small and medium sectors and for social and rural
> sectors,
> NGO's etc., does need Government support and should by all logical
> arguments attract tax sops and even attract government grants and
> incentives if these can be presented convincingly and collectively.
> This is precisely where the design profession in India has failed
> consistently, since, we have not been able to build and sustain any
> form of professional body that can lobby with Government and Industry
> associations to make such sops and incentives a reality. Small
> thinking
> and selfish actions have been the norm it seems and it is now time to
> think and act collectively for the larger good if the profession is to
> establish itself and be effective across the vast spectrum of areas of
> need in the country and not only at the elite level.
>
> The new organisation in Bangalore and others in the making may hold
> promise for the future, but I agree that you must act and act soon on
> the service tax front and a body is to be formed to lobby Government
> and make representations to the Government on many aspects of policy
> and design support. The Design Council Wales has started a
> programme of
> "Design Support" where the Govermnment and the Welsh Parliament has
> drafted laws that provide support systems to facilitate small
> businesses to actively engage design professionals to change the
> equation in the competitibve landscape in which they have to compete
> fiercely with large and in many cases multi-national giants on
> products
> and services that need to stand out in the tough climate that prevails
> in these open markets. I was invited to speak at the Design Support
> Conference at Design Wales in 2004 and this year they had another
> conference on then same theme which is well documented as a podcast
> which can be downloaded and listened to from this site below: The 1
> hour podcast covers many of the strategies that Wales has innovated
> and
> they work with the SEE Design Foundation that looks at Design Support
> across Europe. We need to build a local network that can be heard and
> lobby with Government at an active level with the partner SME's and
> Rural Enterprises who will also benefit greatly from this move.
>
> <http://www.seedesign.org/seedesign/about.aspx>
> <http://www.seedesign.org/seedesign/news.aspx?id=24>
>
> Quote:
>
> ----------
>
> ----------
>
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>
> To subscribe: Copy and paste this URL following the instructions in
> your podcatching software:
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> UnQuote
>
> Great record of the discussions at the 2006 conference of Design
> Support
>
> With warm regards
>
> M P Ranjan
> from my office at NID
> 29 December 2006 at 9.45 pm IST
>
> Prof M P Ranjan
> Faculty of Design
> Head, Centre for Bamboo Initiatives at NID (CFBI-NID)
> Chairman, GeoVisualisation Task Group (DST, Govt. of India)
> (2006-2008)
> Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
> National Institute of Design
> Paldi
> Ahmedabad 380 007 India
>
> Tel: (off) 91 79 26623692 ext 1090 (changed in January 2006)
> Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
> Fax: 91 79 26605242
>
> email: ranjanmp@...
> web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/
> web domain: http://www.ranjanmp.in
>
> On 29-Dec-06, at 8:51 PM, Atul N Joshi wrote:
>
> > Dear Bala,
> > Its true that large corporates will not wince or rethink due to
> > service tax. We have the same experience when we work with them.
> > However, the nature of design business typically attracts 2 types of
> > clients- 1) large corporates who are trying to differentiate through
> > design for product differentiation in an already saturated market 2)
> > small businesses who are trying to differentiate through design
> > innovation and through invention. You may notice, especially in the
> > I.T. and devices domain, about 60 to 70% successful ventures have
> been
> > small startups. Take google for example... or even hotmail. These
> > offices began in garages and became extremely successfull product
> > ventures later. We have been evolving a business model for small
> > entrepreneurs with a high buy-in for design. We call this a
> "strategic
> > design partnership for innovation". Typically these startups have
> > tight budgets but have more FAITH in your design process than any
> top
> > level management in large companies.
> > Typically with smaller businesses you tend to work with the owner or
> > the chief investor himself. The amount of design freedom and
> strategic
> > design impact on the product is very high due to this.
> > In some recent posts people were discussing about "elitest"
> nature of
> > design services. I believe that design services should be available
> > for both type of clients at a good price. It is the second type that
> > get hit by a cost creep of 12% tax soon perhaps 14%. Its purely
> > government compliance... nothing anyone can do about... or
> perhaps we
> > can if tried. But if it is coming in the way (if not killing) of
> > entreprenuership in product innovation, is it really "su-
> sashan" (good
> > governance)?
> > Wonder if you have got that feeling while working on such a project
> > for an entrepreneur who had a great business idea.
> > Regards,
> > Atul N Joshi
> > Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd.
> > Communication Design 97 NID, Bentton Research Scholar 2001.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Bala (www.ticketdesign.com)" <balamahajan@...> wrote:
> > Dear Atul,
> >
> > On the bigger picture....Service tax is an issue and if some sops
> are
> > given..it will be a advantage for smaller clients. In our expereince
> > corporates and
> > MNCs really do not have any issue with paying the tax amounts.
> > Infact it doesnt even come into the calculations until the bill are
> > raised.
> >
> > I dont think that service tax amount plays a hinging role in your
> > clients deciding to go with any other non-Indian designer / design
> > company.
> >
> > regards,
> > Bala (Ticket Design)
> > www.ticketdesign.com
> > NID PD 91-96, Pune
> >
> > On 12/29/06, Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote:
> > > Dear all,
> > > Most designers, especially designpreneurs on this e-group will
> > agree on
> > > the growing concern with service tax on design services in our
> > country. Few
> > > days back I read a report in ET that the governement is
> planning to
> > hike
> > > services tax up to 14%.
> > > It is an uphill task to demonstrate the value of design to
> clients,
> > > coupled with the limited human resource of professional designers
> > in this
> > > country and their loaded salaries. In my opinion, service tax is
> > affecting
> > > the cost structures of an already hard-to-get-business. Design
> > copmpanies
> > > have a heavy overhead of being design missionaries to clients. The
> > design
> > > awareness growing in corporates is slowly on the rise, though
> > "slowly" being
> > > the important word. The effect on costing of design projects
> due to
> > service
> > > tax is posing 2 threats-
> > > 1) It sets in stronger barriers for new entrepreneurs in design by
> > > increasing their costs straight up by 12-14%. For Indian design to
> > become a
> > > reputed consulting serive business, everyone knows we need many
> > many more
> > > deisgn companies in this country. Only when competetion sets in
> and
> > more
> > > standard business practices in design emerge can we truly say that
> > design
> > > consulting has become an "industry" now. We all are more or less
> > niche
> > > businesses in our own design domains. We need more design
> > entreprenuers.
> > > 2) If you service internaitonal clients, the design services fall
> > under
> > > "service for exports" category and is exempt from service tax.
> This
> > enables
> > > designers to compete better internationally, bringing in the
> era of
> > design
> > > outsourcing.
> > > But this is a boon and a curse. What is wrong about it?-
> > > - Many international clients are shifting service and
> manufacturing
> > bases
> > > to India. The demand for design employment and consulting is
> > expected to
> > > rise, however, the outflow of new design human resource is nowhere
> > in
> > > comparision. The quality of fresh blood design resource is not
> > trained
> > > enough straight out of schools. I would say atleast 2-3 years of
> > industrial
> > > experience matters before fresh blood can start delivering
> > international
> > > quality design consulting.
> > > - SEZs and exports sops are getting more and more expensive. These
> > are
> > > mainly geared for companies with multi million dollar turnovers.
> > Typically,
> > > design business tend to be smaller in size. Largest design
> > companies tend to
> > > be about 150 design consultant strong. even these companies may
> not
> > afford
> > > to base themselves in SEZs. Internaitonal business development add
> > large
> > > overheads on top of that.
> > > - The effect of this situation is, the cost of design resource is
> > > increasing way too rapidly but there is fall in quality of design
> > > consulting. We will soon reach a point where the cost of design
> > consulting
> > > in India will be comparable to international markets, but quality
> > of human
> > > resource will not be. Our universities produce ten-1000s of
> > engineers every
> > > year, but not even 100s of designers every year. This means either
> > design
> > > companies have to invest heavily in training own resources, or
> > serious
> > > investments in scalable design education. Both of which will
> > require decades
> > > before its a reality. Are we missing the bus already?
> > > - International clients would increasingly favour non-indian
> > designers to
> > > work on their products, due to the lack of the cost benefit.
> > Secondly, the
> > > scaling of design services in Indian economy is a recent
> > phenomenon, and in
> > > comparision to international scenarios design in India is an
> > "emerging" line
> > > of business. We dont have a industrial culture of being a design
> > service
> > > country... unlike I.T. or management consulting. It is evident why
> > IT
> > > companies are draining NID and IDC graduates... but not design
> > consulting
> > > compaines.
> > > - The hike in payscales and overall design costs is making it more
> > and
> > > more difficult for design companies to serve Indian clients.
> This is
> > > worsened by service tax. This will eventually affect in farther
> > distancing
> > > of designers working for local markets affecting quality of
> overall
> > local
> > > design.
> > >
> > > This is a serious issue in my opinion. Does anyone have any ideas
> > what
> > > organizations can help escalate this issues. Can CII-NID help in
> > anyways?
> > > For a starter, can Design companies put a case to the Gov for
> > service tax
> > > and income tax sops for some years for design companies?
> Especially
> > the
> > > rising service tax to 14% calls for some serious action on behalf
> > of design
> > > consulting companies. Focusing only on international markets is
> not
> > entirely
> > > possible in design business. People will agree that for contextual
> > > innovation and design, proximity to users and markets creates a
> > hughe plus
> > > point. In our experience, when we conduct user studies and design
> > research
> > > onsite for international customers, the cost benefit of
> outsourcing
> > design
> > > is heavily reduced. More so if you are working for Indian
> companies
> > selling
> > > products in international markets. Not only do they have to pay
> > > international overheads, but also service tax in India.
> > >
> > > Someone needs to bell the cat, (P Chidambaram :-)) and get tax
> sops
> > out
> > > for design companies.
> > >
> > > Suggestions are welcome. We at Design Incubator are ready to share
> > > efforts. What take do other design companies on this forum have?
> > > Is Dr. Koshy reading this? :-) Designprenuer in distress!
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Atul Joshi,
> > > Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd,
> > > Communication Design 97 NID, Benetton Research Scholar 2001.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > Atul N Joshi
> > > Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
> > > Mail to: atul.joshi@...
> > > For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com
> > >
> >
> > --
> > regards,
> >
> > Bala (9822083802)
> > Ticket Design
> > Ph 91-20-27297985
> > Fax 91-20-27298168
> > email bala@...
> > www.ticketdesign.com
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > Atul N Joshi
> > Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
> > Mail to: atul.joshi@...
> > For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Atul

Your point about tax sops for a nascent industry, in this case design
services for small and medium sectors and for social and rural sectors,
NGO's etc., does need Government support and should by all logical
arguments attract tax sops and even attract government grants and
incentives if these can be presented convincingly and collectively.
This is precisely where the design profession in India has failed
consistently, since, we have not been able to build and sustain any
form of professional body that can lobby with Government and Industry
associations to make such sops and incentives a reality. Small thinking
and selfish actions have been the norm it seems and it is now time to
think and act collectively for the larger good if the profession is to
establish itself and be effective across the vast spectrum of areas of
need in the country and not only at the elite level.

The new organisation in Bangalore and others in the making may hold
promise for the future, but I agree that you must act and act soon on
the service tax front and a body is to be formed to lobby Government
and make representations to the Government on many aspects of policy
and design support. The Design Council Wales has started a programme of
"Design Support" where the Govermnment and the Welsh Parliament has
drafted laws that provide support systems to facilitate small
businesses to actively engage design professionals to change the
equation in the competitibve landscape in which they have to compete
fiercely with large and in many cases multi-national giants on products
and services that need to stand out in the tough climate that prevails
in these open markets. I was invited to speak at the Design Support
Conference at Design Wales in 2004 and this year they had another
conference on then same theme which is well documented as a podcast
which can be downloaded and listened to from this site below: The 1
hour podcast covers many of the strategies that Wales has innovated and
they work with the SEE Design Foundation that looks at Design Support
across Europe. We need to build a local network that can be heard and
lobby with Government at an active level with the partner SME's and
Rural Enterprises who will also benefit greatly from this move.

<http://www.seedesign.org/seedesign/about.aspx>
<http://www.seedesign.org/seedesign/news.aspx?id=24>

Quote:


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UnQuote

Great record of the discussions at the 2006 conference of Design Support

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
29 December 2006 at 9.45 pm IST


Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, Centre for Bamboo Initiatives at NID (CFBI-NID)
Chairman, GeoVisualisation Task Group (DST, Govt. of India) (2006-2008)
Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India

Tel: (off) 91 79 26623692 ext 1090 (changed in January 2006)
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
Fax: 91 79 26605242

email: ranjanmp@...
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/
web domain: http://www.ranjanmp.in

On 29-Dec-06, at 8:51 PM, Atul N Joshi wrote:

> Dear Bala,
>  Its true that large corporates will not wince or rethink due to
> service tax. We have the same experience when we work with them.
> However, the nature of design business typically attracts 2 types of
> clients- 1) large corporates who are trying to differentiate through
> design for product differentiation in an already saturated market 2)
> small businesses who are trying to differentiate through design
> innovation and through invention. You may notice, especially in the
> I.T. and devices domain, about 60 to 70% successful ventures have been
> small startups. Take google for example... or even hotmail. These
> offices began in garages and became extremely successfull product
> ventures later. We have been evolving a business model for small
> entrepreneurs with a high buy-in for design. We call this a "strategic
> design partnership for innovation". Typically these startups have
> tight budgets but have more FAITH in your design process than any top
> level management in large companies.
>  Typically with smaller businesses you tend to work with the owner or
> the chief investor himself. The amount of design freedom and strategic
> design impact on the product is very high due to this.
>  In some recent posts people were discussing about "elitest" nature of
> design services. I believe that design services should be available
> for both type of clients at a good price. It is the second type that
> get hit by a cost creep of 12% tax soon perhaps 14%. Its purely
> government compliance... nothing anyone can do about... or perhaps we
> can if tried. But if it is coming in the way (if not killing) of
> entreprenuership in product innovation, is it really "su-sashan" (good
> governance)?
>  Wonder if you have got that feeling while working on such a project
> for an entrepreneur who had a great business idea.
>  Regards,
>  Atul N Joshi
>  Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd.
>  Communication Design 97 NID, Bentton Research Scholar 2001.
>
>
>
>
>  "Bala (www.ticketdesign.com)" <balamahajan@...> wrote:
>  Dear Atul,
>
>  On the bigger picture....Service tax is an issue and if some sops are
>  given..it will be a advantage for smaller clients. In our expereince
> corporates and
>  MNCs really do not have any issue with paying the tax amounts.
>  Infact it doesnt even come into the calculations until the bill are
> raised.
>
>  I dont think that service tax amount plays a hinging role in your
> clients deciding to go with any other non-Indian designer / design
> company.
>
>  regards,
>  Bala (Ticket Design)
>  www.ticketdesign.com
>  NID PD 91-96, Pune
>
>  On 12/29/06, Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote:
>  > Dear all,
>  > Most designers, especially designpreneurs on this e-group will
> agree on
>  > the growing concern with service tax on design services in our
> country. Few
>  > days back I read a report in ET that the governement is planning to
> hike
>  > services tax up to 14%.
>  > It is an uphill task to demonstrate the value of design to clients,
>  > coupled with the limited human resource of professional designers
> in this
>  > country and their loaded salaries. In my opinion, service tax is
> affecting
>  > the cost structures of an already hard-to-get-business. Design
> copmpanies
>  > have a heavy overhead of being design missionaries to clients. The
> design
>  > awareness growing in corporates is slowly on the rise, though
> "slowly" being
>  > the important word. The effect on costing of design projects due to
> service
>  > tax is posing 2 threats-
>  > 1) It sets in stronger barriers for new entrepreneurs in design by
>  > increasing their costs straight up by 12-14%. For Indian design to
> become a
>  > reputed consulting serive business, everyone knows we need many
> many more
>  > deisgn companies in this country. Only when competetion sets in and
> more
>  > standard business practices in design emerge can we truly say that
> design
>  > consulting has become an "industry" now. We all are more or less
> niche
>  > businesses in our own design domains. We need more design
> entreprenuers.
>  > 2) If you service internaitonal clients, the design services fall
> under
>  > "service for exports" category and is exempt from service tax. This
> enables
>  > designers to compete better internationally, bringing in the era of
> design
>  > outsourcing.
>  > But this is a boon and a curse. What is wrong about it?-
>  > - Many international clients are shifting service and manufacturing
> bases
>  > to India. The demand for design employment and consulting is
> expected to
>  > rise, however, the outflow of new design human resource is nowhere
> in
>  > comparision. The quality of fresh blood design resource is not
> trained
>  > enough straight out of schools. I would say atleast 2-3 years of
> industrial
>  > experience matters before fresh blood can start delivering
> international
>  > quality design consulting.
>  > - SEZs and exports sops are getting more and more expensive. These
> are
>  > mainly geared for companies with multi million dollar turnovers.
> Typically,
>  > design business tend to be smaller in size. Largest design
> companies tend to
>  > be about 150 design consultant strong. even these companies may not
> afford
>  > to base themselves in SEZs. Internaitonal business development add
> large
>  > overheads on top of that.
>  > - The effect of this situation is, the cost of design resource is
>  > increasing way too rapidly but there is fall in quality of design
>  > consulting. We will soon reach a point where the cost of design
> consulting
>  > in India will be comparable to international markets, but quality
> of human
>  > resource will not be. Our universities produce ten-1000s of
> engineers every
>  > year, but not even 100s of designers every year. This means either
> design
>  > companies have to invest heavily in training own resources, or
> serious
>  > investments in scalable design education. Both of which will
> require decades
>  > before its a reality. Are we missing the bus already?
>  > - International clients would increasingly favour non-indian
> designers to
>  > work on their products, due to the lack of the cost benefit.
> Secondly, the
>  > scaling of design services in Indian economy is a recent
> phenomenon, and in
>  > comparision to international scenarios design in India is an
> "emerging" line
>  > of business. We dont have a industrial culture of being a design
> service
>  > country... unlike I.T. or management consulting. It is evident why
> IT
>  > companies are draining NID and IDC graduates... but not design
> consulting
>  > compaines.
>  > - The hike in payscales and overall design costs is making it more
> and
>  > more difficult for design companies to serve Indian clients. This is
>  > worsened by service tax. This will eventually affect in farther
> distancing
>  > of designers working for local markets affecting quality of overall
> local
>  > design.
>  >
>  > This is a serious issue in my opinion. Does anyone have any ideas
> what
>  > organizations can help escalate this issues. Can CII-NID help in
> anyways?
>  > For a starter, can Design companies put a case to the Gov for
> service tax
>  > and income tax sops for some years for design companies? Especially
> the
>  > rising service tax to 14% calls for some serious action on behalf
> of design
>  > consulting companies. Focusing only on international markets is not
> entirely
>  > possible in design business. People will agree that for contextual
>  > innovation and design, proximity to users and markets creates a
> hughe plus
>  > point. In our experience, when we conduct user studies and design
> research
>  > onsite for international customers, the cost benefit of outsourcing
> design
>  > is heavily reduced. More so if you are working for Indian companies
> selling
>  > products in international markets. Not only do they have to pay
>  > international overheads, but also service tax in India.
>  >
>  > Someone needs to bell the cat, (P Chidambaram :-)) and get tax sops
> out
>  > for design companies.
>  >
>  > Suggestions are welcome. We at Design Incubator are ready to share
>  > efforts. What take do other design companies on this forum have?
>  > Is Dr. Koshy reading this? :-) Designprenuer in distress!
>  >
>  > Regards,
>  > Atul Joshi,
>  > Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd,
>  > Communication Design 97 NID, Benetton Research Scholar 2001.
>  >
>  >
>  > ----------------------------------------------------------
>  > Atul N Joshi
>  > Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
>  > Mail to: atul.joshi@...
>  > For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com
>  >
>
>  --
>  regards,
>
>  Bala (9822083802)
>  Ticket Design
>  Ph 91-20-27297985
>  Fax 91-20-27298168
>  email bala@...
>  www.ticketdesign.com
>
>  ----------------------------------------------------------
>  Atul N Joshi
>  Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
>  Mail to: atul.joshi@...
>  For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I do believe that the barrier to scaling design is actually in how we
think about and communicate design. How we communicate design to our
clients, to eachother, to ourselves and through our design to the end
users of design.

I strongly recommend you to read an article by Prof. Klaus
Krippendorff, of The Annenberg Schoool of Communication at the
University of Pennsylvania.

The title of the article is Redesigning Design: An invitation to a
Responsible Future.

The essence of the article can be found in the following extract from
his article,

"The motivation for this essay stems from the far too common
experience that whenever designers do work with their counterparts
from the so-called 'harder' disciplines, professionals who can argue
with statistics, with experimental findings, with calculations or
from positions of administrative authority, they most often lose out.
Examples are abound. I conclude from them that, first, designers
often are preoccupied with products when what matters is how their
ideas occur in talk, in clear presentations, in hard evidence, and in
compelling arguments. It is communication that makes a difference and
gets results. Second, design is foremost conceptual and creative of
future conditions. Dwelling on existing facts often inhibits and is
generally less important than the ability to bring a multiplicity of
people to recognize the benefits of collaborating in the realization
of new ideas. Designers are bound to fail when they do not act on the
premise that their conceptualizations must make sense to those that
matter. Third, the success of famous designers is based primarily on
carefully nourished publicity, personal connections, or longtime
working relationships with clients. The visual qualities and
functionalities in terms of which designers justify their work are
never obvious and mostly derivative of their social standing. Forth,
facing increasingly sophisticated stakeholders in material culture,
designers' claim of possessing superior visual sensibilities has lost
much of its appeal and is easily countered even by entirely
irrelevant but voluminous data, impressive calculations, predictions,
or business arguments. In sum, current design discourse has lost much
of its rhetorical strength. I contend that this need not be
so." (Krippendorff 1995).


The article can be found at:

http://www.asc.upenn.edu/usr/krippendorff/REDESGN.htm

Thanks


Uday




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Bala,
   Its true that large corporates will not wince or rethink due to service tax.
We have the same experience when we work with them. However, the nature of
design business typically attracts 2 types of clients- 1) large corporates who
are trying to differentiate through design for product differentiation in an
already saturated market 2) small businesses who are trying to differentiate
through design innovation and through invention. You may notice, especially in
the I.T. and devices domain, about 60 to 70% successful ventures have been small
startups. Take google for example... or even hotmail. These offices began in
garages and became extremely successfull product ventures later. We have been
evolving a business model for small entrepreneurs with a high buy-in for design.
We call this a "strategic design partnership for innovation". Typically these
startups have tight budgets but have more FAITH in your design process than any
top level management in large companies.
  Typically with smaller businesses you tend to work with the owner or the chief
investor himself. The amount of design freedom and strategic design impact on
the product is very high due to this.
   In some recent posts people were discussing about "elitest" nature of design
services. I believe that design services should be available for both type of
clients at a good price. It is the second type that get hit by a cost creep of
12% tax soon perhaps 14%. Its purely government compliance... nothing anyone can
do about... or perhaps we can if tried. But if it is coming in the way (if not
killing) of entreprenuership in product innovation, is it really "su-sashan"
(good governance)?
Wonder if you have got that feeling while working on such a project for an
entrepreneur who had a great business idea.
   Regards,
   Atul N Joshi
   Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd.
   Communication Design 97 NID, Bentton Research Scholar 2001.




"Bala (www.ticketdesign.com)" <balamahajan@...> wrote:
           Dear Atul,

On the bigger picture....Service tax is an issue and if some sops are
given..it will be a advantage for smaller clients. In our expereince corporates
and
MNCs really do not have any issue with paying the tax amounts.
Infact it doesnt even come into the calculations until the bill are raised.

I dont think that service tax amount plays a hinging role in your clients
deciding to go with any other non-Indian designer / design company.

regards,
Bala (Ticket Design)
www.ticketdesign.com
NID PD 91-96, Pune

On 12/29/06, Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote:
> Dear all,
> Most designers, especially designpreneurs on this e-group will agree on
> the growing concern with service tax on design services in our country. Few
> days back I read a report in ET that the governement is planning to hike
> services tax up to 14%.
> It is an uphill task to demonstrate the value of design to clients,
> coupled with the limited human resource of professional designers in this
> country and their loaded salaries. In my opinion, service tax is affecting
> the cost structures of an already hard-to-get-business. Design copmpanies
> have a heavy overhead of being design missionaries to clients. The design
> awareness growing in corporates is slowly on the rise, though "slowly" being
> the important word. The effect on costing of design projects due to service
> tax is posing 2 threats-
> 1) It sets in stronger barriers for new entrepreneurs in design by
> increasing their costs straight up by 12-14%. For Indian design to become a
> reputed consulting serive business, everyone knows we need many many more
> deisgn companies in this country. Only when competetion sets in and more
> standard business practices in design emerge can we truly say that design
> consulting has become an "industry" now. We all are more or less niche
> businesses in our own design domains. We need more design entreprenuers.
> 2) If you service internaitonal clients, the design services fall under
> "service for exports" category and is exempt from service tax. This enables
> designers to compete better internationally, bringing in the era of design
> outsourcing.
> But this is a boon and a curse. What is wrong about it?-
> - Many international clients are shifting service and manufacturing bases
> to India. The demand for design employment and consulting is expected to
> rise, however, the outflow of new design human resource is nowhere in
> comparision. The quality of fresh blood design resource is not trained
> enough straight out of schools. I would say atleast 2-3 years of industrial
> experience matters before fresh blood can start delivering international
> quality design consulting.
> - SEZs and exports sops are getting more and more expensive. These are
> mainly geared for companies with multi million dollar turnovers. Typically,
> design business tend to be smaller in size. Largest design companies tend to
> be about 150 design consultant strong. even these companies may not afford
> to base themselves in SEZs. Internaitonal business development add large
> overheads on top of that.
> - The effect of this situation is, the cost of design resource is
> increasing way too rapidly but there is fall in quality of design
> consulting. We will soon reach a point where the cost of design consulting
> in India will be comparable to international markets, but quality of human
> resource will not be. Our universities produce ten-1000s of engineers every
> year, but not even 100s of designers every year. This means either design
> companies have to invest heavily in training own resources, or serious
> investments in scalable design education. Both of which will require decades
> before its a reality. Are we missing the bus already?
> - International clients would increasingly favour non-indian designers to
> work on their products, due to the lack of the cost benefit. Secondly, the
> scaling of design services in Indian economy is a recent phenomenon, and in
> comparision to international scenarios design in India is an "emerging" line
> of business. We dont have a industrial culture of being a design service
> country... unlike I.T. or management consulting. It is evident why IT
> companies are draining NID and IDC graduates... but not design consulting
> compaines.
> - The hike in payscales and overall design costs is making it more and
> more difficult for design companies to serve Indian clients. This is
> worsened by service tax. This will eventually affect in farther distancing
> of designers working for local markets affecting quality of overall local
> design.
>
> This is a serious issue in my opinion. Does anyone have any ideas what
> organizations can help escalate this issues. Can CII-NID help in anyways?
> For a starter, can Design companies put a case to the Gov for service tax
> and income tax sops for some years for design companies? Especially the
> rising service tax to 14% calls for some serious action on behalf of design
> consulting companies. Focusing only on international markets is not entirely
> possible in design business. People will agree that for contextual
> innovation and design, proximity to users and markets creates a hughe plus
> point. In our experience, when we conduct user studies and design research
> onsite for international customers, the cost benefit of outsourcing design
> is heavily reduced. More so if you are working for Indian companies selling
> products in international markets. Not only do they have to pay
> international overheads, but also service tax in India.
>
> Someone needs to bell the cat, (P Chidambaram :-)) and get tax sops out
> for design companies.
>
> Suggestions are welcome. We at Design Incubator are ready to share
> efforts. What take do other design companies on this forum have?
> Is Dr. Koshy reading this? :-) Designprenuer in distress!
>
> Regards,
> Atul Joshi,
> Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd,
> Communication Design 97 NID, Benetton Research Scholar 2001.
>
>
> I
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Atul N Joshi
> Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
> Mail to: atul.joshi@...
> For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
regards,

Bala (9822083802)
Ticket Design
Ph 91-20-27297985
Fax 91-20-27298168
email bala@...
www.ticketdesign.com





-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Atul N Joshi
   Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
Mail to: atul.joshi@...
For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com

  __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Deepankar and Atul (and ..... Uday / Neelam / Poonam ....et a)

Much wisdom is flowing at the designindia forum and I do wish that the
Government of India is listening in on these conversations, if not yet
some time soon, I am sure. What do we have to say to them? Can we list
a set of specific points that they can understand and translate into
policy, otherwise little will happen.  We are not the only ones trying
to make Industry and Governments listen to the "Design Way as a viable
and necessary story", there are others and we can rally such resources
and use these to make compelling arguments for the use of design across
many sectors of our economy and our society.

   Why Government? It is the single largest investor in a huge number of
sectors and they do not use design in a meaningful way. I was asked by
one of the members of the North Eastern  Council (NEC Shillong) to give
an outline for a Design Policy that they could adopt at their next
meeting when I met them at Agartala last week as part of BAMFEST 2006.
I find that I do not have a ready and coherent list that I can hand out
to them immediately. Why not? Dont we all need this in our contact with
Industry and Governments? Can we work together and build such a list
that can be given out to whoever is ready to use design in local, State
or Country level Governance? This can change the world in small doses,
taluka by taluka, district by district, village by village and also at
the regional, State or Country level. (I am impatient for this
change... we have started at Katlamara, others can do it in their own
way as well) I have other thoughts about Atul's bus story, but that
will have to wait for another day.
(see our new products at this web link below)
<http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/Katlamara_Chalo_2005/
PhotoAlbum89.html>

Can the designindia list work together and share experiences and build
such a policy framework and usable list? What do you think?

There is a wonderful podcast from the RSA in the UK that I was
listening to today and it is about Education and the speakers include
Uffe Elbek of the Kaos Pilots, Denmark, the Founder of the
"International School for New Business Design", wonderful material, do
check it out at the link below:

"Are your mental building blocks ready for the future"
<http://www.thersa.org/audio/lecture280906.mp3>

Also see the full list at
<http://www.thersa.org/audio/index.asp> (all lectures from RSA)

Also check out John Thackara's speach to the RSA list and the next
"Doors East" in New Delhi too promises to give us another opportunity
to make design visible and palpable in our country.

The manner in which the UK, and Scandinavian countries are using design
for social projects and applications is a model that we can import or
innovate at our end keeping in mind local conditions. Any ideas and
directions can be shared right here and Uday, Sudhir, Poonam, Deepankar
and Atul, not to exclude any of you out there, do speak up and let the
list grow and we will find people who will be eager to do these tasks,
I am sure that our students are all eager to join this effort, if
asked! What do you think?

Wish you all a very great New Year ahead.

With warm regards

M P Ranjan
from my office at NID
29 December 2006 at 7.35 pm IST

Prof M P Ranjan
Faculty of Design
Head, Centre for Bamboo Initiatives at NID (CFBI-NID)
Chairman, GeoVisualisation Task Group (DST, Govt. of India) (2006-2008)
Faculty Member on Governing Council (2003 - 2005)
National Institute of Design
Paldi
Ahmedabad 380 007 India

Tel: (off) 91 79 26623692 ext 1090 (changed in January 2006)
Tel: (res) 91 79 26610054
Fax: 91 79 26605242

email: ranjanmp@...
web site: http://homepage.mac.com/ranjanmp/
web domain: http://www.ranjanmp.in

On 29-Dec-06, at 9:44 AM, deepankar bhattacharyya wrote:

> Yes, well said, for too long have designers blamed everything else and
> not looked at their own shortcomings, the bus example makes a fine
> point. One expects alumni of the better institutions to contribute
> more than prettying things up for a quick buck, there is enough of
> that already.
>
>  Priorities need to move from getting a job that pays well to wanting
> to make a difference - the truth is that the money will come if you're
> good enough. We had it real tough when I started out but I don't
> seriously think that I ever had trouble finding a situation where I
> could make a difference or where clients and users did not appreciate
> this difference once they saw it. Also there was enough money, not
> masses of it but enough to do my thing.
>
>  regards
>
>  Deepankar Bhattacharyya
>  Images Communications
>  NID 1970-76
>
>  p.s. I'll retain the rest of the thread for easy reference, many good
> points have been made.
>
>  Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote: Very interesting post.
>  I do not find myself aware enough to comment about wether all
> designers are making a difference by scaling design reach masses, but
> based on my personal experience, I have a certain hypothesis.
>  Allow me to present it with help of a case study...
>  Case study 1- Few months back we did a e-governance project. We
> studied users, govenrment babus in Bihar and UP and had to recommend 3
> point of design intervantions- 1) how can the system be made more
> efficient, less corrupt and more robust 2) what type of human workflow
> issues exist in the daily lives of these users and how can human
> systems be re-engineered to resolve them 3) How can the government
> meet its objective of making all government offices in this country
> paperless through I.T. intervention.
>  Now here, only the third objective was defined by the government's
> stakeholders as a "Goal for the design team". The other two are our
> own objectives. It was a software design project for us. Our research
> brought forth the other two critical design success factors.
>  Frankly, it took us some research and fundamental proof of concept
> approach to convince stakeholders, that comfort and acceptability of
> end users is a critical component in any design. Any human workflow
> change management, should consider satisfaction of existing human
> resource as a critical success factor. Obviously we were backed by
> design research processes and research data to prove a point. But...
> the point being, a designer has to take the step and show the value of
> his intervention. He has to go all the way, to whatever it takes.
>  We avoided serious union troubles and un employment issues for the
> government which we get thanked if nothing else.
>
>  I often tell my clients that designers are like doctors. You may go
> to a doctor with a headache, the doctor will do his necessary
> diagnosis and tell you- 1) you have a mild headache because you sleep
> too late 2) you have a brain tumor. The right medicine can be
> prescribed only then. The doctor doesnt complain that he is not
> getting too many brain tumor patients where he can make real
> difference to their lives. Nor does he say, you have headache, take
> this asprin, its cheap, I dont care if you may have a tumor... its too
> expensive to detect and treat anyways. Doctors serves everyone's pain
> with equal care and prefessional sincerity. He has no control over
> what kind of patient may come next and what kind of problems he may
> bring. Ofourse one may argue that he could choose to be a Brain Tumor
> specialist and only treat those patients. In my opinion, a normal G.P.
> doctor has no less nobility of profession than a brain cancer
> specialist. This is the way my company does all its
>  design work.
>  Often, in NID days, we were taught that design is a problem solving
> process. there seem to be 2 critical components in that philosophy- 1)
> Identify the RIGHT problems 2) identify the RIGHT solutions. Now tell
> me any design, which doesnt need both. Tell me any design which is not
> used by people. Tell me any people who are already not a part of
> "masses".
>
>  Most design companies I interact with these days, and get to hear
> from our clients either- deliver what they have been expected to
> deliver by the client, or provide a service of beautification to a
> product. I get a feeling many times that "Scaling" of design, is often
> reffered to as "increasing incoming revenues" or "reaching out to
> masses". Infact, the difference in our approach is Scaling Design =
> Adding more value, more efficiently and generating larger revenue
> irresepective of who or where you are reaching. Just reach is not
> scaling.
>
>  I think designers need not go looking out of their way to reach the
> masses. There is nothing called as masses infact. Our entire economy
> runs on "scale of volumes". We are living the next billion of the
> pyramid. Everything available in this country has a "design" to it.
> There was nothing stopping a designer of Ashok Leyland buses to make
> the gear more smooth and to proviude the driver with the most
> ergonomic seat in the world. A bus driver, one of the "masses", drives
> a bus 12 hours a day, in smoke, pollution, noise, and horrid weather
> conditions. Had a designer decided to use his profession to improve
> and reduce his stress, then a bus company sponsored a research on how
> many road accidents were reduced due to stress free driving by bus
> driver... this would have been a slightly different world. Maybe
> government compliances could enable PMT in Pune or BEST in Mumbai to
> buy buses that make a driver's life less stressful. Users always have
> expressed needs, and unexpressed
>  ones. It is a designers personal job to find those unexpressed needs,
> because in that lie unexplored opportunities. Any experienced investor
> would bet his money on unexplored opprtunties. Had anyone gone out
> there and done research about why drivers drive so rashly, probably a
> major blame would reflect poor quality of work environment design for
> bus drivers. We designers often feel awed by systems and ingenious
> design thinking often seen in developed countries. In US, I have
> noticed that a bus driver has a coffeee cup holder apart from
> ergonomic seating, and typically coffee cup sizes are standardized too
> and it doesnt spill over. Do you think the US government paid a
> premium for all bus drivers to have a cup holder in their bus? We
> often go to the Ideo's of the world or think "some" movement should
> start that focuses on making the life of "masses" better. I think,
> only if we designers did our job more honestly and sincerely, with
> more self interest and sensitivity, a
>  lot of things can be changed.
>  Every design ever made touches someone or the other in this world.
> Using the simple principle often reflected in our own BhavadGita, "do
> your duty"... just make better designs in whatever you design.
>  It doesnt require us to die with guilt "ooomygod... i dont have any
> design project for the "massses"...". Every project touches the lives
> of people. And every day there is more in this world that touches
> both, the haves and the have nots. Let the money circulate, allow
> people to get their share in the buying power, its a slow but evolving
> process... nothing designers can do alone about. No economy in this
> world works on exclusivity. It has always worked on volumes and
> affordabiltiy... always worked on reaching to more. So allow economy
> to take its slow stride as well.
>  Basically, to scale design and make it respond to the problem of
> "masses", I believe we should all first deliver more value in the
> project we are doing RIGHT now ... and more in the future. Scale the
> value proposition of what has been done... we would make this world a
> better place.
>  Don't give the patient an asprin... diagnose his problem better, cure
> his disease for life if you can.
>  I think that is scaling design... better value with every design. Let
> people become aware of better design. Let bus drivers understand that
> there could be a more stress free driving experience. Understand.
> Design. Demonstrate. Prove.
>  Do all this with all design projects.
>  My hypothesis is that it will work like a chain reaction eventually.
>  Regards,
>  Atul Joshi,
>  Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd.
>  Communication Designer- NID 97, Benetton Research Scholar- 2001.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Sudhir Sharma <sudhirelephant@...> wrote:
>  Yes i completely agree.
>
>  I think it is not just designers but everyone around...I see
>  industrialists, i see people who work 5 days a week, i students and
>  most of all designers (who have the skills to do
>  something)...sitting on their butts and watching almost as if we are
>  not a part of this world...go by.
>
>  TV is just making us numb, Newspapers have become insipid...nothing
>  moves us..figures dnt make sense..and someones pain..doesnt pinch.
>
>  That is why it is refreshing to meet someone/anyone..whom you see
>  stopping and doing something.
>
>  It is onething to sit back and agree with eachother and believe we
>  are not doing anything...but believe me not very difficult to just
>  get up and do something small, which makes a difference.
>
>  If you are not able to figure out what to do (beyond your work,
>  which will help in some cause)...join and support someone who you
>  think is doing something right. As designers we get so used to
>  leading projects that it becomes extremely difficult to join and
>  support someone elses fight. We need to learn and be in background
>  and really make difference.
>
>  Identify causes at Local, Regional, National and international level
>  and work with them. Being in India we are blessed with huge
>  opportunities to work for society and life.
>
>  I also find twisting projects (real live projects)and clients to do
>  something beyond their obvious objectives.
>
>  For ideas..look around. we have problems of Air, Water, Fuel,
>  Health, Hygiene, Garbage, education, law, jobs, money,
>  opportunities, transport, communication....endless...
>  Take a topic..see what you can do..see who is doing what and start
>  talking about it..get people together and move your butt.
>
>  Just recieved a book published by rockport- Design field guides-
>  Jenn+ Ken Visocky O"Grady titled- A DESIGNERS RESEARCH MANUAL-
>  suceed in design by knowing your clients and what they really need.
>  the dedication reads as - This book is dedicated to designers
>  everywhere who are pushing the boundries of the profession to ensure
>  its relevance, prosperity and longevity. It has a case study from
>  Elephant among 14 other projects. That is a good enough payback
>  sometimes.
>
>  All you need to do is start..
>
>  regards
>
>  Sudhir Sharma
>  ELephant
>
>  --- In designindia@..., Uday Dandavate <uday@...>
>  wrote:
>  >
>  > Hello everyone,
>  >
>  > As I was returning form the Design witn India conference in Delhi
>  I
>  > walked away with an unanticipated epiphany. It was triggered by
>  the
>  > session on Scaling, in which Surya (high tech end) and Nilam
>  Chibbar
>  > (crafts end) participated.
>  >
>  > I realized that design has essentially remained a boutique level
>  > activity worldwide, except in large corporations where designers
>  are
>  > still struggling to find more strategic roles (there are
>  exceptions).
>  >
>  > I attribute this to two reasons. One is that design has somehow
>  > stayed closer to elitist values which keeps us from influencing
>  the
>  > qualiity of life of masses. Other, designers have not gathered
>  > courage to embark on issues (political, economic and social) that
>  > have mass implications and instead have let our clients define
>  the
>  > reach of our skills and intellect.
>  >
>  > How do we liberate ourselves from this way of thinking, what are
>  the
>  > implications of thinking big, unless we think big, we can never
>  serve
>  > the small people and communities that are craving for change in
>  their
>  > life.
>  >
>  > This is not confined to India alone. I do think Designers are
>  sitting
>  > comfortably on their butts serving small niches.
>  >
>  > Any thoughts? I thought this would be a good provocation for the
>  new
>  > year.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Uday Dandavate
>  > Principal
>  > SonicRim Ltd.
>  >
>  > Contact Information:
>  >
>  > Columbus:
>  > 1086 N. 4th Street
>  > Columbus OH 43201
>  > U.S.A.
>  > Telephone: (614) 298-6844
>  > Fax: (614) 298 6844
>  >

The following designindia poll is now closed.  Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: What the best way forward for documenting and showcasing design
projects?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- Publish on a website by individuals, 11 votes, 52.38%
- One co-ordinator collects materials after research and survey, 1 votes, 4.76%
- Publish a book, 7 votes, 33.33%
- Travelling exhibition of panels and prototypes to major cities, 2 votes, 9.52%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/designindia

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/in/groups/

Dear Friends,
With X`mas and the New year Greetings we are presenting the December
issue of Newsletter. On behalf of Design for All Institute of India ,
I am informing you about our issue of newsletter of December 2006,
Vol-1, Number-11 has been uploaded in our site www.designforallin for
your expert opinion and comments. I expect from you that you will
take our job seriously and will join our noble cause in making our
efforts world class If you wish to forward to your near and dear or
the person from design area and allied field, our request to you
kindly intimate his/ her E-mail address to us or ask him /her to
registered with our web site www.designforall.in   or they can write
at my E-mail dr_subha@...
  This Newsletter has the following articles:
1. "Housing and the Aging Population in the United States"-Ms Rebecca
and Ms Teresa, Universal Design Alliance
2. " Securing Mobility of Senior Citizens in Traffic"-Prof Jurgen
GERLACH and Prof Dirk BOENKE, Germany.

We are organizing International Seminar of 3-4 days on  27-29th
January 2007 in New Delhi , India  ( Detail is in this newsletter).
Our warmest greetings from the team of Design for All Institute of
India
Thanking you
With regards
Dr. Sunil Kumar Bhatia
  dr_subha@...
  www.designforall.in

A notebook from Google in which you can use it as a online notepad at the
same time you can share(you have to add his/her email id in the sharing
option) it with your other colleagues also.

In short, more than two person can work on the same file at the same time
from different locations.
http://www.google.com/notebook

--
manish | http://homepage.mac.com/manish.kumar


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Atul,

On the bigger picture....Service tax is an issue and if some sops are
given..it will be a advantage for smaller clients. In our expereince corporates
and
MNCs really do not have any issue with paying the tax amounts.
Infact it doesnt even come into the calculations until the bill are raised.

I dont think that service tax amount plays a hinging role in your clients
deciding to go with any other non-Indian designer / design company.


regards,
Bala (Ticket Design)
www.ticketdesign.com
NID PD 91-96, Pune


















On 12/29/06, Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote:
> Dear all,
>   Most designers, especially designpreneurs on this e-group will agree on
> the growing concern with service tax on design services in our country. Few
> days back I read a report in ET that the governement is planning to hike
> services tax up to 14%.
>   It is an uphill task to demonstrate the value of design to clients,
> coupled with the limited human resource of professional designers in this
> country and their loaded salaries. In my opinion, service tax is affecting
> the cost structures of an already hard-to-get-business. Design copmpanies
> have a heavy overhead of being design missionaries to clients. The design
> awareness growing in corporates is slowly on the rise, though "slowly" being
> the important word. The effect on costing of design projects due to service
> tax is posing 2 threats-
>   1) It sets in stronger barriers for new entrepreneurs in design by
> increasing their costs straight up by 12-14%. For Indian design to become a
> reputed consulting serive business, everyone knows we need many many more
> deisgn companies in this country. Only when competetion sets in and more
> standard business practices in design emerge can we truly say that design
> consulting has become an "industry" now. We all are more or less niche
> businesses in our own design domains. We need more design entreprenuers.
>   2) If you service internaitonal clients, the design services fall under
> "service for exports" category and is exempt from service tax. This enables
> designers to compete better internationally, bringing in the era of design
> outsourcing.
>   But this is a boon and a curse. What is wrong about it?-
>   - Many international clients are shifting service and manufacturing bases
> to India. The demand for design employment and consulting is expected to
> rise, however, the outflow of new design human resource is nowhere in
> comparision. The quality of fresh blood design resource is not trained
> enough straight out of schools. I would say atleast 2-3 years of industrial
> experience matters before fresh blood can start delivering international
> quality design consulting.
>   - SEZs and exports sops are getting more and more expensive. These are
> mainly geared for companies with multi million dollar turnovers. Typically,
> design business tend to be smaller in size. Largest design companies tend to
> be about 150 design consultant strong. even these companies may not afford
> to base themselves in SEZs. Internaitonal business development add large
> overheads on top of that.
>   - The effect of this situation is, the cost of design resource is
> increasing way too rapidly but there is fall in quality of design
> consulting. We will soon reach a point where the cost of design consulting
> in India will be comparable to international markets, but quality of human
> resource will not be. Our universities produce ten-1000s of engineers every
> year, but not even 100s of designers every year. This means either design
> companies have to invest heavily in training own resources, or serious
> investments in scalable design education. Both of which will require decades
> before its a reality. Are we missing the bus already?
>   - International clients would increasingly favour non-indian designers to
> work on their products, due to the lack of the cost benefit. Secondly, the
> scaling of design services in Indian economy is a recent phenomenon, and in
> comparision to international scenarios design in India is an "emerging" line
> of business. We dont have a industrial culture of being a design service
> country... unlike I.T. or management consulting. It is evident why IT
> companies are draining NID and IDC graduates... but not design consulting
> compaines.
>   - The hike in payscales and overall design costs is making it more and
> more difficult for design companies to serve Indian clients. This is
> worsened by service tax. This will eventually affect in farther distancing
> of designers working for local markets affecting quality of overall local
> design.
>
>   This is a serious issue in my opinion. Does anyone have any ideas what
> organizations can help escalate this issues. Can CII-NID help in anyways?
> For a starter, can Design companies put a case to the Gov for service tax
> and income tax sops for some years for design companies? Especially the
> rising service tax to 14% calls for some serious action on behalf of design
> consulting companies. Focusing only on international markets is not entirely
> possible in design business. People will agree that for contextual
> innovation and design, proximity to users and markets creates a hughe plus
> point. In our experience, when we conduct user studies and design research
> onsite for international customers, the cost benefit of outsourcing design
> is heavily reduced. More so if you are working for Indian companies selling
> products in international markets. Not only do they have to pay
> international overheads, but also service tax in India.
>
>   Someone needs to bell the cat, (P Chidambaram :-)) and get tax sops out
> for design companies.
>
>   Suggestions are welcome. We at Design Incubator are ready to share
> efforts. What take do other design companies on this forum have?
>   Is Dr. Koshy reading this? :-) Designprenuer in distress!
>
>   Regards,
>   Atul Joshi,
>   Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd,
>   Communication Design 97 NID, Benetton Research Scholar 2001.
>
>
>   I
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Atul N Joshi
>   Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
> Mail to: atul.joshi@...
> For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com
>
>  __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


--
regards,

Bala (9822083802)
Ticket Design
Ph  91-20-27297985
Fax 91-20-27298168
email bala@...
www.ticketdesign.com

Dear all,
   Most designers, especially designpreneurs on this e-group will agree on the
growing concern with service tax on design services in our country. Few days
back I read a report in ET that the governement is planning to hike services tax
up to 14%.
   It is an uphill task to demonstrate the value of design to clients, coupled
with the limited human resource of professional designers in this country and
their loaded salaries. In my opinion, service tax is affecting the cost
structures of an already hard-to-get-business. Design copmpanies have a heavy
overhead of being design missionaries to clients. The design awareness growing
in corporates is slowly on the rise, though "slowly" being the important word.
The effect on costing of design projects due to service tax is posing 2 threats-
   1) It sets in stronger barriers for new entrepreneurs in design by increasing
their costs straight up by 12-14%. For Indian design to become a reputed
consulting serive business, everyone knows we need many many more deisgn
companies in this country. Only when competetion sets in and more standard
business practices in design emerge can we truly say that design consulting has
become an "industry" now. We all are more or less niche businesses in our own
design domains. We need more design entreprenuers.
   2) If you service internaitonal clients, the design services fall under
"service for exports" category and is exempt from service tax. This enables
designers to compete better internationally, bringing in the era of design
outsourcing.
   But this is a boon and a curse. What is wrong about it?-
   - Many international clients are shifting service and manufacturing bases to
India. The demand for design employment and consulting is expected to rise,
however, the outflow of new design human resource is nowhere in comparision. The
quality of fresh blood design resource is not trained enough straight out of
schools. I would say atleast 2-3 years of industrial experience matters before
fresh blood can start delivering international quality design consulting.
   - SEZs and exports sops are getting more and more expensive. These are mainly
geared for companies with multi million dollar turnovers. Typically, design
business tend to be smaller in size. Largest design companies tend to be about
150 design consultant strong. even these companies may not afford to base
themselves in SEZs. Internaitonal business development add large overheads on
top of that.
   - The effect of this situation is, the cost of design resource is increasing
way too rapidly but there is fall in quality of design consulting. We will soon
reach a point where the cost of design consulting in India will be comparable to
international markets, but quality of human resource will not be. Our
universities produce ten-1000s of engineers every year, but not even 100s of
designers every year. This means either design companies have to invest heavily
in training own resources, or serious investments in scalable design education.
Both of which will require decades before its a reality. Are we missing the bus
already?
   - International clients would increasingly favour non-indian designers to work
on their products, due to the lack of the cost benefit. Secondly, the scaling of
design services in Indian economy is a recent phenomenon, and in comparision to
international scenarios design in India is an "emerging" line of business. We
dont have a industrial culture of being a design service country... unlike I.T.
or management consulting. It is evident why IT companies are draining NID and
IDC graduates... but not design consulting compaines.
   - The hike in payscales and overall design costs is making it more and more
difficult for design companies to serve Indian clients. This is worsened by
service tax. This will eventually affect in farther distancing of designers
working for local markets affecting quality of overall local design.

   This is a serious issue in my opinion. Does anyone have any ideas what
organizations can help escalate this issues. Can CII-NID help in anyways? For a
starter, can Design companies put a case to the Gov for service tax and income
tax sops for some years for design companies? Especially the rising service tax
to 14% calls for some serious action on behalf of design consulting companies.
Focusing only on international markets is not entirely possible in design
business. People will agree that for contextual innovation and design, proximity
to users and markets creates a hughe plus point. In our experience, when we
conduct user studies and design research onsite for international customers, the
cost benefit of outsourcing design is heavily reduced. More so if you are
working for Indian companies selling products in international markets. Not only
do they have to pay international overheads, but also service tax in India.

   Someone needs to bell the cat, (P Chidambaram :-)) and get tax sops out for
design companies.

   Suggestions are welcome. We at Design Incubator are ready to share efforts.
What take do other design companies on this forum have?
   Is Dr. Koshy reading this? :-) Designprenuer in distress!

   Regards,
   Atul Joshi,
   Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd,
   Communication Design 97 NID, Benetton Research Scholar 2001.


   I


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Atul N Joshi
   Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
Mail to: atul.joshi@...
For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com

  __________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

   Thanks Uday for putting it in words something that my heart said all the time
but my mind refused to agree.

   I agree with u that design has essentially remained a boutique level activity
worldwide and that it has stayed closer to elitist values (of course, there are
exceptions).

   And its heartening to know that u feel that this a so across the globe. At
least as Neelam said I will not feel sad about it now.

   Ajay Tank.
   pd,90-93, nid
   delhi.

Uday Dandavate <uday@...> wrote:
           Hello everyone,

As I was returning form the Design witn India conference in Delhi I
walked away with an unanticipated epiphany. It was triggered by the
session on Scaling, in which Surya (high tech end) and Nilam Chibbar
(crafts end) participated.

I realized that design has essentially remained a boutique level
activity worldwide, except in large corporations where designers are
still struggling to find more strategic roles (there are exceptions).

I attribute this to two reasons. One is that design has somehow
stayed closer to elitist values which keeps us from influencing the
qualiity of life of masses. Other, designers have not gathered
courage to embark on issues (political, economic and social) that
have mass implications and instead have let our clients define the
reach of our skills and intellect.

How do we liberate ourselves from this way of thinking, what are the
implications of thinking big, unless we think big, we can never serve
the small people and communities that are craving for change in their
life.

This is not confined to India alone. I do think Designers are sitting
comfortably on their butts serving small niches.

Any thoughts? I thought this would be a good provocation for the new
year.

Uday Dandavate
Principal
SonicRim Ltd.

Contact Information:

Columbus:
1086 N. 4th Street
Columbus OH 43201
U.S.A.
Telephone: (614) 298-6844
Fax: (614) 298 6844

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, well said, for too long have designers blamed everything else and not
looked at their own shortcomings, the bus example makes a fine point. One
expects alumni of the better institutions to contribute more than prettying
things up for a quick buck, there is enough of that already.

Priorities need to move from getting a job that pays well to wanting to make a
difference - the truth is that the money will come if you're good enough. We had
it real tough when I started out but I don't seriously think that I ever had
trouble finding a situation where I could make a difference or where clients and
users did not appreciate this difference once they saw it. Also there was enough
money, not masses of it but enough to do my thing.

regards

Deepankar Bhattacharyya
Images Communications
NID 1970-76

p.s. I'll retain the rest of the thread for easy reference, many good points
have been made.



Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...> wrote:                                  Very
interesting post.
    I do not find myself aware enough to comment about wether all designers are
making a difference by scaling design reach masses, but based on my personal
experience, I have a certain hypothesis.
    Allow me to present it with help of a case study...
    Case study 1- Few months back we did a e-governance project. We studied
users, govenrment babus in Bihar and UP and had to recommend 3 point of design
intervantions- 1) how can the system be made more efficient, less corrupt and
more robust 2) what type of human workflow issues exist in the daily lives of
these users and how can human systems be re-engineered to resolve them 3) How
can the government meet its objective of making all government offices in this
country paperless through I.T. intervention.
    Now here, only the third objective was defined by the government's
stakeholders as a "Goal for the design team". The other two are our own
objectives. It was a software design project for us. Our research brought forth
the other two critical design success factors.
    Frankly, it took us some research and fundamental proof of concept approach
to convince stakeholders, that comfort and acceptability of end users is a
critical component in any design. Any human workflow change management, should
consider satisfaction of existing human resource as a critical success factor.
Obviously we were backed by design research processes and research data to prove
a point. But... the point being, a designer has to take the step and show the
value of his intervention. He has to go all the way, to whatever it takes.
    We avoided serious union troubles and un employment issues for the government
which we get thanked if nothing else.

    I often tell my clients that designers are like doctors. You may go to a
doctor with a headache, the doctor will do his necessary diagnosis and tell you-
1) you have a mild headache because you sleep too late 2) you have a brain
tumor. The right medicine can be prescribed only then. The doctor doesnt
complain that he is not getting too many brain tumor patients where he can make
real difference to their lives. Nor does he say, you have headache, take this
asprin, its cheap, I dont care if you may have a tumor... its too expensive to
detect and treat anyways. Doctors serves everyone's pain with equal care and
prefessional sincerity. He has no control over what kind of patient may come
next and what kind of problems he may bring. Ofourse one may argue that he could
choose to be a Brain Tumor specialist and only treat those patients. In my
opinion, a normal G.P. doctor has no less nobility of profession than a brain
cancer specialist. This is the way my company does all its
   design work.
    Often, in NID days, we were taught that design is a problem solving process.
there seem to be 2 critical components in that philosophy- 1) Identify the RIGHT
problems 2) identify the RIGHT solutions. Now tell me any design, which doesnt
need both. Tell me any design which is not used by people. Tell me any people
who are already not a part of "masses".

    Most design companies I interact with these days, and get to hear from our
clients either- deliver what they have been expected to deliver by the client,
or provide a service of beautification to a product. I get a feeling many times
that "Scaling" of design, is often reffered to as "increasing incoming revenues"
or "reaching out to masses". Infact, the difference in our approach is Scaling
Design = Adding more value, more efficiently and generating larger revenue
irresepective of who or where you are reaching. Just reach is not scaling.

    I think designers need not go looking out of their way to reach the masses.
There is nothing called as masses infact. Our entire economy runs on "scale of
volumes". We are living the next billion of the pyramid. Everything available in
this country has a "design" to it. There was nothing stopping a designer of
Ashok Leyland buses to make the gear more smooth and to proviude the driver with
the most ergonomic seat in the world. A bus driver, one of the "masses", drives
a bus 12 hours a day, in smoke, pollution, noise, and horrid weather conditions.
Had a designer decided to use his profession to improve and reduce his stress,
then a bus company sponsored a research on how many road accidents were reduced
due to stress free driving by bus driver... this would have been a slightly
different world. Maybe government compliances could enable PMT in Pune or BEST
in Mumbai to buy buses that make a driver's life less stressful. Users always
have expressed needs, and unexpressed
   ones. It is a designers personal job to find those unexpressed needs, because
in that lie unexplored opportunities. Any experienced investor would bet his
money on unexplored opprtunties. Had anyone gone out there and done research
about why drivers drive so rashly, probably a major blame would reflect poor
quality of work environment design for bus drivers.  We designers often feel
awed by systems and ingenious design thinking often seen in developed countries.
In US, I have noticed that a bus driver has a coffeee cup holder apart from
ergonomic seating, and typically coffee cup sizes are standardized too and it
doesnt spill over. Do you think the US government paid a premium for all bus
drivers to have a cup holder in their bus? We often go to the Ideo's of the
world or think "some" movement should start that focuses on making the life of
"masses"  better. I think, only if we designers did our job more honestly and
sincerely, with more self interest and sensitivity, a
   lot of things can be changed.
    Every design ever made touches someone or the other in this world. Using the
simple principle often reflected in our own BhavadGita, "do your duty"... just
make better designs in whatever you design.
    It doesnt require us to die with guilt "ooomygod... i dont have any design
project for the "massses"...". Every project touches the lives of people. And
every day there is more in this world that touches both, the haves and the have
nots. Let the money circulate, allow people to get their share in the buying
power, its a slow but evolving process... nothing designers can do alone about.
No economy in this world works on exclusivity. It has always worked on volumes
and affordabiltiy... always worked on reaching to more. So allow economy to take
its slow stride as well.
    Basically, to scale design and make it respond to the problem of "masses", I
believe we should all first deliver more value in the project we are doing RIGHT
now ... and more in the future. Scale the value proposition of what has been
done... we would make this world a better place.
    Don't give the patient an asprin... diagnose his problem better, cure his
disease for life if you can.
    I think that is scaling design... better value with every design. Let people
become aware of better design. Let bus drivers understand that there could be a
more stress free driving experience. Understand. Design. Demonstrate. Prove.
    Do all this with all design projects.
    My hypothesis is that it will work like a chain reaction eventually.
    Regards,
    Atul Joshi,
    Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd.
    Communication Designer- NID 97, Benetton Research Scholar- 2001.





  Sudhir Sharma <sudhirelephant@...> wrote:
            Yes i completely agree.

  I think it is not just designers but everyone around...I see
  industrialists, i see people who work 5 days a week, i students and
  most of all designers (who have the skills to do
  something)...sitting on their butts and watching almost as if we are
  not a part of this world...go by.

  TV is just making us numb, Newspapers have become insipid...nothing
  moves us..figures dnt make sense..and someones pain..doesnt pinch.

  That is why it is refreshing to meet someone/anyone..whom you see
  stopping and doing something.

  It is onething to sit back and agree with eachother and believe we
  are not doing anything...but believe me not very difficult to just
  get up and do something small, which makes a difference.

  If you are not able to figure out what to do (beyond your work,
  which will help in some cause)...join and support someone who you
  think is doing something right. As designers we get so used to
  leading projects that it becomes extremely difficult to join and
  support someone elses fight. We need to learn and be in background
  and really make difference.

  Identify causes at Local, Regional, National and international level
  and work with them. Being in India we are blessed with huge
  opportunities to work for society and life.

  I also find twisting projects (real live projects)and clients to do
  something beyond their obvious objectives.

  For ideas..look around. we have problems of Air, Water, Fuel,
  Health, Hygiene, Garbage, education, law, jobs, money,
  opportunities, transport, communication....endless...
  Take a topic..see what you can do..see who is doing what and start
  talking about it..get people together and move your butt.

  Just recieved a book published by rockport- Design field guides-
  Jenn+ Ken Visocky O"Grady titled- A DESIGNERS RESEARCH MANUAL-
  suceed in design by knowing your clients and what they really need.
  the dedication reads as - This book is dedicated to designers
  everywhere who are pushing the boundries of the profession to ensure
  its relevance, prosperity and longevity. It has a case study from
  Elephant among 14 other projects. That is a good enough payback
  sometimes.

  All you need to do is start..

  regards

  Sudhir Sharma
  ELephant

  --- In designindia@..., Uday Dandavate <uday@...>
  wrote:
  >
  > Hello everyone,
  >
  > As I was returning form the Design witn India conference in Delhi
  I
  > walked away with an unanticipated epiphany. It was triggered by
  the
  > session on Scaling, in which Surya (high tech end) and Nilam
  Chibbar
  > (crafts end) participated.
  >
  > I realized that design has essentially remained a boutique level
  > activity worldwide, except in large corporations where designers
  are
  > still struggling to find more strategic roles (there are
  exceptions).
  >
  > I attribute this to two reasons. One is that design has somehow
  > stayed closer to elitist values which keeps us from influencing
  the
  > qualiity of life of masses. Other, designers have not gathered
  > courage to embark on issues (political, economic and social) that
  > have mass implications and instead have let our clients define
  the
  > reach of our skills and intellect.
  >
  > How do we liberate ourselves from this way of thinking, what are
  the
  > implications of thinking big, unless we think big, we can never
  serve
  > the small people and communities that are craving for change in
  their
  > life.
  >
  > This is not confined to India alone. I do think Designers are
  sitting
  > comfortably on their butts serving small niches.
  >
  > Any thoughts? I thought this would be a good provocation for the
  new
  > year.
  >
  >
  >
  > Uday Dandavate
  > Principal
  > SonicRim Ltd.
  >
  > Contact Information:
  >
  > Columbus:
  > 1086 N. 4th Street
  > Columbus OH 43201
  > U.S.A.
  > Telephone: (614) 298-6844
  > Fax: (614) 298 6844
  >
  >


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Dear Atul,

very well put. I completely agree with you. You dont have to go
looking for projects to make a difference, it is builtin in each
project, it requires a little bit more sincereity and
vision..perhaps a bit more effort..but it is worth it.

and if it is not in your project or you fail to see how you could
make a difference with what you have on plate, join, help someone
who is doing something.

Thanks Atul.
regards

Sudhir Sharma
1989 nid
Elephant
Pune


--- In designindia@..., Atul N Joshi <atulnjoshi@...>
wrote:
>
> Very interesting post.
>   I do not find myself aware enough to comment about wether all
designers are making a difference by scaling design reach masses,
but based on my personal experience, I have a certain hypothesis.
>   Allow me to present it with help of a case study...
>   Case study 1- Few months back we did a e-governance project. We
studied users, govenrment babus in Bihar and UP and had to recommend
3 point of design intervantions- 1) how can the system be made more
efficient, less corrupt and more robust 2) what type of human
workflow issues exist in the daily lives of these users and how can
human systems be re-engineered to resolve them 3) How can the
government meet its objective of making all government offices in
this country paperless through I.T. intervention.
>   Now here, only the third objective was defined by the
government's stakeholders as a "Goal for the design team". The other
two are our own objectives. It was a software design project for us.
Our research brought forth the other two critical design success
factors.
>   Frankly, it took us some research and fundamental proof of
concept approach to convince stakeholders, that comfort and
acceptability of end users is a critical component in any design.
Any human workflow change management, should consider satisfaction
of existing human resource as a critical success factor. Obviously
we were backed by design research processes and research data to
prove a point. But... the point being, a designer has to take the
step and show the value of his intervention. He has to go all the
way, to whatever it takes.
>   We avoided serious union troubles and un employment issues for
the government which we get thanked if nothing else.
>
>   I often tell my clients that designers are like doctors. You may
go to a doctor with a headache, the doctor will do his necessary
diagnosis and tell you- 1) you have a mild headache because you
sleep too late 2) you have a brain tumor. The right medicine can be
prescribed only then. The doctor doesnt complain that he is not
getting too many brain tumor patients where he can make real
difference to their lives. Nor does he say, you have headache, take
this asprin, its cheap, I dont care if you may have a tumor... its
too expensive to detect and treat anyways. Doctors serves everyone's
pain with equal care and prefessional sincerity. He has no control
over what kind of patient may come next and what kind of problems he
may bring. Ofourse one may argue that he could choose to be a Brain
Tumor specialist and only treat those patients. In my opinion, a
normal G.P. doctor has no less nobility of profession than a brain
cancer specialist. This is the way my company does all its
>  design work.
>   Often, in NID days, we were taught that design is a problem
solving process. there seem to be 2 critical components in that
philosophy- 1) Identify the RIGHT problems 2) identify the RIGHT
solutions. Now tell me any design, which doesnt need both. Tell me
any design which is not used by people. Tell me any people who are
already not a part of "masses".
>
>   Most design companies I interact with these days, and get to
hear from our clients either- deliver what they have been expected
to deliver by the client, or provide a service of beautification to
a product. I get a feeling many times that "Scaling" of design, is
often reffered to as "increasing incoming revenues" or "reaching out
to masses". Infact, the difference in our approach is Scaling Design
= Adding more value, more efficiently and generating larger revenue
irresepective of who or where you are reaching. Just reach is not
scaling.
>
>   I think designers need not go looking out of their way to reach
the masses. There is nothing called as masses infact. Our entire
economy runs on "scale of volumes". We are living the next billion
of the pyramid. Everything available in this country has a "design"
to it. There was nothing stopping a designer of Ashok Leyland buses
to make the gear more smooth and to proviude the driver with the
most ergonomic seat in the world. A bus driver, one of the "masses",
drives a bus 12 hours a day, in smoke, pollution, noise, and horrid
weather conditions. Had a designer decided to use his profession to
improve and reduce his stress, then a bus company sponsored a
research on how many road accidents were reduced due to stress free
driving by bus driver... this would have been a slightly different
world. Maybe government compliances could enable PMT in Pune or BEST
in Mumbai to buy buses that make a driver's life less stressful.
Users always have expressed needs, and unexpressed
>  ones. It is a designers personal job to find those unexpressed
needs, because in that lie unexplored opportunities. Any experienced
investor would bet his money on unexplored opprtunties. Had anyone
gone out there and done research about why drivers drive so rashly,
probably a major blame would reflect poor quality of work
environment design for bus drivers.  We designers often feel awed by
systems and ingenious design thinking often seen in developed
countries. In US, I have noticed that a bus driver has a coffeee cup
holder apart from ergonomic seating, and typically coffee cup sizes
are standardized too and it doesnt spill over. Do you think the US
government paid a premium for all bus drivers to have a cup holder
in their bus? We often go to the Ideo's of the world or think "some"
movement should start that focuses on making the life of "masses"
better. I think, only if we designers did our job more honestly and
sincerely, with more self interest and sensitivity, a
>  lot of things can be changed.
>   Every design ever made touches someone or the other in this
world. Using the simple principle often reflected in our own
BhavadGita, "do your duty"... just make better designs in whatever
you design.
>   It doesnt require us to die with guilt "ooomygod... i dont have
any design project for the "massses"...". Every project touches the
lives of people. And every day there is more in this world that
touches both, the haves and the have nots. Let the money circulate,
allow people to get their share in the buying power, its a slow but
evolving process... nothing designers can do alone about. No economy
in this world works on exclusivity. It has always worked on volumes
and affordabiltiy... always worked on reaching to more. So allow
economy to take its slow stride as well.
>   Basically, to scale design and make it respond to the problem
of "masses", I believe we should all first deliver more value in the
project we are doing RIGHT now ... and more in the future. Scale the
value proposition of what has been done... we would make this world
a better place.
>   Don't give the patient an asprin... diagnose his problem better,
cure his disease for life if you can.
>   I think that is scaling design... better value with every
design. Let people become aware of better design. Let bus drivers
understand that there could be a more stress free driving
experience. Understand. Design. Demonstrate. Prove.
>   Do all this with all design projects.
>   My hypothesis is that it will work like a chain reaction
eventually.
>   Regards,
>   Atul Joshi,
>   Design Incubator R&D Labs Pvt Ltd.
>   Communication Designer- NID 97, Benetton Research Scholar- 2001.
>
>
>
>
>
> Sudhir Sharma <sudhirelephant@...> wrote:
>           Yes i completely agree.
>
> I think it is not just designers but everyone around...I see
> industrialists, i see people who work 5 days a week, i students
and
> most of all designers (who have the skills to do
> something)...sitting on their butts and watching almost as if we
are
> not a part of this world...go by.
>
> TV is just making us numb, Newspapers have become
insipid...nothing
> moves us..figures dnt make sense..and someones pain..doesnt pinch.
>
> That is why it is refreshing to meet someone/anyone..whom you see
> stopping and doing something.
>
> It is onething to sit back and agree with eachother and believe we
> are not doing anything...but believe me not very difficult to just
> get up and do something small, which makes a difference.
>
> If you are not able to figure out what to do (beyond your work,
> which will help in some cause)...join and support someone who you
> think is doing something right. As designers we get so used to
> leading projects that it becomes extremely difficult to join and
> support someone elses fight. We need to learn and be in background
> and really make difference.
>
> Identify causes at Local, Regional, National and international
level
> and work with them. Being in India we are blessed with huge
> opportunities to work for society and life.
>
> I also find twisting projects (real live projects)and clients to
do
> something beyond their obvious objectives.
>
> For ideas..look around. we have problems of Air, Water, Fuel,
> Health, Hygiene, Garbage, education, law, jobs, money,
> opportunities, transport, communication....endless...
> Take a topic..see what you can do..see who is doing what and start
> talking about it..get people together and move your butt.
>
> Just recieved a book published by rockport- Design field guides-
> Jenn+ Ken Visocky O"Grady titled- A DESIGNERS RESEARCH MANUAL-
> suceed in design by knowing your clients and what they really
need.
> the dedication reads as - This book is dedicated to designers
> everywhere who are pushing the boundries of the profession to
ensure
> its relevance, prosperity and longevity. It has a case study from
> Elephant among 14 other projects. That is a good enough payback
> sometimes.
>
> All you need to do is start..
>
> regards
>
> Sudhir Sharma
> ELephant
>
> --- In designindia@..., Uday Dandavate <uday@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > As I was returning form the Design witn India conference in
Delhi
> I
> > walked away with an unanticipated epiphany. It was triggered by
> the
> > session on Scaling, in which Surya (high tech end) and Nilam
> Chibbar
> > (crafts end) participated.
> >
> > I realized that design has essentially remained a boutique level
> > activity worldwide, except in large corporations where designers
> are
> > still struggling to find more strategic roles (there are
> exceptions).
> >
> > I attribute this to two reasons. One is that design has somehow
> > stayed closer to elitist values which keeps us from influencing
> the
> > qualiity of life of masses. Other, designers have not gathered
> > courage to embark on issues (political, economic and social)
that
> > have mass implications and instead have let our clients define
> the
> > reach of our skills and intellect.
> >
> > How do we liberate ourselves from this way of thinking, what are
> the
> > implications of thinking big, unless we think big, we can never
> serve
> > the small people and communities that are craving for change in
> their
> > life.
> >
> > This is not confined to India alone. I do think Designers are
> sitting
> > comfortably on their butts serving small niches.
> >
> > Any thoughts? I thought this would be a good provocation for the
> new
> > year.
> >
> >
> >
> > Uday Dandavate
> > Principal
> > SonicRim Ltd.
> >
> > Contact Information:
> >
> > Columbus:
> > 1086 N. 4th Street
> > Columbus OH 43201
> > U.S.A.
> > Telephone: (614) 298-6844
> > Fax: (614) 298 6844
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Atul N Joshi
>   Design Incubator (R&D Labs Pvt Ltd)
> Mail to: atul.joshi@...
> For more information please visit : http://www.designincubator.com
>
>  __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dear Uday,

First of all can we demonstrate this through some of
our work examples? Can we gather some case studies
where we can show what design can do at that level?
Unless we show them what way our skills can be
utilised clients/stakeholders will never take notice
of the reach of our 'skills and intellect'. Having
said that it can be a 'chicken and egg' situation.

I feel that it can only make a difference if we are at
least given a chance to demonstrate such abilities and
this may happen through 'educating' our
clients/stakeholders.

I know all this has been done in the past many a
times. We may need to address it in a more effective
way. I am sure most of us do 'think big'. It is a
matter of 'implementing' it in the real world.

Siddharth Dash
AEP PD 92
Mumbai


--- Uday Dandavate <uday@...> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> As I was returning form the Design witn India
> conference in Delhi I
> walked away with an unanticipated epiphany. It was
> triggered by the
> session on Scaling, in which Surya (high tech end)
> and Nilam Chibbar
> (crafts end) participated.
>
> I realized that design has essentially remained a
> boutique level
> activity worldwide, except in large corporations
> where designers are
> still struggling to find more strategic roles (there
> are exceptions).
>
> I attribute this to two reasons. One is that design
> has somehow
> stayed closer to elitist values which keeps us from
> influencing the
> qualiity of life of masses. Other, designers have
> not gathered
> courage to embark on issues (political, economic and
> social) that
> have mass implications and instead have let our
> clients define the
> reach of our skills and intellect.
>
> How do we liberate ourselves from this way of
> thinking, what are the
> implications of thinking big, unless we think big,
> we can never serve
> the small people and communities that are craving
> for change in their
> life.
>
> This is not confined to India alone. I do think
> Designers are sitting
> comfortably on their butts serving small niches.
>
> Any thoughts? I thought this would be a good
> provocation for the new
> year.
>
>
>
> Uday Dandavate
> Principal
> SonicRim Ltd.
>
> Contact Information:
>
> Columbus:
> 1086 N. 4th Street
> Columbus OH 43201
> U.S.A.
> Telephone: (614) 298-6844
> Fax:               (614) 298 6844
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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