I forgot something in my last post:
For open-loop systems, you often would like to link the injection
temperature to the abstraction temperature by applying a constant or
time-varying temperature differential. As this is not possible in the
standard user interface of FEFLOW, DHI-WASY provides a module for the
FEFLOW programming interface IFM for this, called SimpleOpenLoop. If
you need this, just email to the FEFLOW support (support@...).

Peter

Monica,

A too coarse discretization would typically lead to oscillations
rather than high numerical dispersion. So please check whether your
dispersivity values are realistic and whether you have turned on an
upwind method (in Temporal&Control data). Upwind methods stabilize the
solution on too coarse meshes, but depending on the method used a high
amount of artificial dispersion might be added.

Hope this helps

Peter
FEFLOW Support Team

Monica,

Among other things, FEFLOW (like some other models) suffers from
a large numerical dispersion. The simplest solution is to subdivide the
domain into many smaller ones (in your case, many layers).

Good luck,

Shlomo Orr.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: mirunache
   To: feflow@...
   Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 5:59 AM
   Subject: [feflow] too much dispersion within an unsaturated flow and mass
transport model


   Gretings!

   I am looking for advice regarding the model I have built in FEFLOW-
   flow and mass transport in transient state, for an unsaturated
   model.

   The model is based on conceptual hydrostratigraphy, field data and
   parameters as taken from referenced literature. However, for some
   reason, I have the feeling that I get too much dispersion through the
   model domain.

   If anybody could give me some advice regarding this issue, I can
   provide more detailed information.

   Many thanks,

   Monica

Gretings!

I am looking for advice regarding the model I have built in FEFLOW-
flow and mass transport in transient state, for an unsaturated
model.

The  model is based on conceptual hydrostratigraphy, field data and
parameters as taken from referenced literature. However, for some
reason, I have the feeling that I get too much dispersion through the
model domain.

If anybody could give me some advice regarding this issue, I can
provide more detailed information.

Many thanks,

Monica

On behalf of John Doherty, Jim Rumbaugh, and myself, please consider joining
us at the first-ever PEST conference!

This first-ever PEST Conference will be held in The Stained Glass Hall of
the Bolger Center, Potomac, Maryland ( http://bolgercenter.dolce.com/
<http://bolgercenter.dolce.com/> ) November 2nd through 4th, 2009. The
primary goal of the PEST Conference is to bring together modelers from a
wide variety of disciplines who either have experience in, or would like to
learn more about, the use of inverse modeling techniques - i.e., parameter
estimation and uncertainty analysis - with a particular focus on the PEST
suite of programs (www.sspa.com/pest ). The objective of bringing together
modelers from a variety of modeling disciplines is to exchange ideas,
discuss applications of the PEST suite of programs, share lessons learned,
discuss new and planned developments, and seek guidance from modelers on
inverse modeling needs to guide future code development. It is also hoped
that this forum will provide an opportunity for modelers to meet and discuss
novel approaches that they have taken to solving problems that they have
encountered.

The PEST Conference will commence with a message from John Doherty, the
developer of the PEST programs. John will provide some history of the
development of PEST, discuss wide ranging applications of PEST, outline
planned future developments, and doubtless wax lyrical on a great many other
topics! The conference will follow with morning and afternoon sessions, each
commencing with a key-note address given by a noted environmental modeler,
followed by submitted oral presentations. A poster session will also be held
one evening. Oral and poster presentations will be summarized in extended
abstracts and/or full papers that will be published in electronic
proceedings distributed on thumb drives. The conference will wrap up with a
question-and-answer session during which attendees will be able to ask
questions of the organizers and of John Doherty, in particular, and provide
suggestions for future development directions.

A one-day Introductory PEST course will be held immediately prior to the
conference, and a two-day advanced PEST course will be held immediately
following the PEST Conference, with instruction from John Doherty, Jim
Rumbaugh, and Matt Tonkin.

Further information about the PEST Conference - including the list of
keynote speakers and information on registration, accommodations, and
travel, will be posted soon at www.sspa.com/ThePESTConference.

We hope to see you in November 2009!

Best wishes -

Matt Tonkin
SSP&A
Email:  <mailto:pest@...> pest@...

Dear all,

I'm a new member from italian feflow users group. I'm modeling the effects of an
underground impervious barrier on the groundwater flow. Could you indicate me
publications, papers or any references explaining the feflow useful in such a
case? This could convince the client to use feflow instead of modflow!!!!!

thank you so much

riccardo

Dear Group Member,

With reference to my earlier queries (did not get any response at that time), a
recent response from Mr. Alessandro Casasso is placed below.

Regards
Kumar
==================================================
C. P. KUMAR
Scientist 'E1'
National Institute of Hydrology
Jal Vigyan Bhawan
Roorkee - 247667 (Uttarakhand)
INDIA

Web Page : http://www.angelfire.com/nh/cpkumar/
==================================================

******************************************************************

Re: Modelling of seawater intrusion
Monday, September 22, 2008 3:52 PM
From: "alessandro.casasso" <alessandro.casasso@...>
To: "C. P. Kumar" <cpkumar@...>

Have you found any answer to you questions? I'm working at a MS thesis about
Feflow modelling of a shallow aquifer in Venice. I will not try to model salt
pans - too difficult even to think where they are.

About rainfall and evapotranspiration: I've got rainfall and temperature data. I
calculated ET with Blaney-Criddle formula, but I found that results are
overestimated. I tried to reduce risults by comparing modeling results with real
results (in the area I'm studying, I can get results from 11 piezometers..) and
I found that BC formula results can be divided by 3. I found that ET estimation
is one of the most difficult parts of shallow aquifers modeling...

I've got no idea about brackish water in rivers. In my model, I assigned the
tidal oscillations (1st type boundary conditions) also to a channel of Venice
lagoon that encloses my modeling domain.

I developed a relation between TDS and conductivity (I've got specifical
conductivity measures), but I did a very rude approximation. As I'm modeling a
peninsula, I thought that seawater contains most NaCl , so conductivity
(microSiemens per cm) is dominated by NaCl concentration. Conductivity is linked
to NaCl concentration in this way: - every ion has an equivalent conductivity,
that is the specifical conductivity for a concentration of 1 equivalent/liter
(for NaCl, 1 equivalent = 1 mole); - this equivalent conductivity is also linked
to concentration by Onsager formula; - specifical conductivity = equiv conduct x
concentration [mole/liter]

I visited your site some time ago, I found it very interesting. Sorry for my
English, I have to improve it. About my tip on TDS-conductivity: as we say in
Italy "here I tell it, and here I deny it" :-) I'm only a MS student and I got
these advice reading a laboratory chemistry manual...

See you soon on this forum,
Alessandro Casasso

******************************************************************

Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 20:03:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: "C. P. Kumar" <cpkumar@...>
Subject: Modelling of seawater intrusion
To: hydforum@yahoogroups.com, hydrologymodel@...,
gwmodel@yahoogroups.com, gwrm@..., rhydrology@yahoogroups.com,
feflow@..., seawat@..., coastal@googlegroups.com

Dear Group Member,

I am grateful to the following members/experts for their interesting/useful
observations/comments/suggestions on my report "Modelling of a Coastal Aquifer
using FEFLOW" (available at ftp://ftp.wasy.de/FEFLOW/Goa.pdf ).

(1) Reinhard Zapata (Waterloo Hydrogeologic, Canada)
(2) Krishnaiah C. (India)
(3) S.V.N.Rao (Roorkee, India)
(4) V.V.S. Gurunadha Rao (Hyderabad, India)
(5) Michael Jorgensen (Australia)

I am prompted to seek further suggestions for the following issues in modelling
the seawater intrusion in coastal aquifers.

(a) How to model the effect of salt pans on groundwater in coastal areas?

(b) How to incorporate the evaporation from open water surfaces (e.g. to define
time-variant boundary condition in case of rivers) and evaporation from shallow
groundwater table?

(c) How to model the effect of brackish water in rivers (due to tidal backwater
effect from sea) on groundwater in coastal areas?

(d) How to develop correlation between resistivity values and TDS and between
resistivity values and hydraulic conductivity.

(e) Suitability of Kriging, Akima and Inverse Distance Weighting techniques for
interpolation/regionalization of different parameters/variables.

Any suggestions for the above will be helpful for extension of this (or similar)
study in future.

There is a small errata in the report - title of figure 7 may be read as
"Measured Values of Hydraulic Conductivity (*10E-4 m/s)" - the multiplier was
missing.

Regards
Kumar
==================================================
C. P. KUMAR
Scientist 'E1'
National Institute of Hydrology
Jal Vigyan Bhawan
Roorkee - 247667 (Uttarakhand)
INDIA

Web Page : http://www.angelfire.com/nh/cpkumar/
==================================================

Hallo

you go through DHI website and contact their branch office in Delhi for
purfchasing FEFLOW software.

S.Halder


--- On Fri, 12/9/08, neerajdsharma <neeraj_me_env@...> wrote:

From: neerajdsharma <neeraj_me_env@...>
Subject: [feflow] feflow software
To: feflow@...
Date: Friday, 12 September, 2008, 12:57 AM

hello friends

i am neeraj sharma . i am pursuing ph.d on groundwater quality in
coastal area for that modelling is required. I am not in position to
purchase the FEFLOW software can any one provide free or any way to
get free fullfeatured FEFLOW software.

Hello sir,

   Thanks, I want to one thing, which address i will send that abstract or any
other application form will be there and also please inform last date.

   Thanks a lot......

   Regards
   Murugan Ramasamy


"peter.schaetzl" <p.schaetzl@...> wrote:
           Hello,

DHI-WASY (the manufacturer of FEFLOW) can provide free FEFLOW licenses
for selected PhD students for the time of the PhD study.

Qualicfication includes that
- the topic of the PhD thesis is interesting to DHI-WAY
- the focus of the work is clearly research-oriented
- the research is leading-edge work
- a summary of the thesis may be published by DHI-WASY.

If you fulfill these criteria, please apply for such a license with a
short (about one page) description of your planned work.

Best regards,
Peter Schätzl

Product Manager FEFLOW
DHI-WASY

Hello,

DHI-WASY (the manufacturer of FEFLOW) can provide free FEFLOW licenses
for selected PhD students for the time of the PhD study.

Qualicfication includes that
- the topic of the PhD thesis is interesting to DHI-WAY
- the focus of the work is clearly research-oriented
- the research is leading-edge work
- a summary of the thesis may be published by DHI-WASY.

If you fulfill these criteria, please apply for such a license with a
short (about one page) description of your planned work.

Best regards,
Peter Schätzl

Product Manager FEFLOW
DHI-WASY

hello friends
   i am neeraj sharma . i am pursuing ph.d on groundwater quality in
coastal area for that modelling is required. I am not in position to
purchase the FEFLOW software can any one provide free or any way to
get free fullfeatured FEFLOW software.

Hi Tesma,

I usually use text editor or note pad application to generate my .trp, .pnt,
.lin etc. files.  The Help menu in FEFLOW (press F1 key) has a section
describing the structure of each of the different FEFLOW files.

A .trp file has an X,Y,Z structure (no commas in the file) that ends with
the word END.  X and Y are coordinates of some Z property. The structure
would look something like this:

X Y Z
X Y Z
END

After I saved the .txt file in text editor (or note pad) I would rename the
file extension from .txt to .trp

I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Rob


Robert Maric, M.Sc., P.Geo.
Hydrogeologist
Schlumberger Water Services

-----Original Message-----
From: feflow@... [mailto:feflow@...] On Behalf
Of sisaygrm
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 8:12 AM
To: feflow@...
Subject: [feflow] trp file,

Dear members,

I am new user of feflow,

Can you help me on how exactily to make *.trp file?

thnx,

tesma

We would like to make you aware of session H75 "Decision-Appropriate
Modeling throughout the Lifecycle of Restoration, and other, Environmental
Projects" at this years AGU Meeting in San Francisco, December 15-19
(http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm08/index.php/Main/HomePage). The goal of this
session is not to discuss the mathematical details of model applications and
uncertainty analysis: rather, the goal is to discuss examples where models
have been both successfully and unsuccessfully applied in support of
environmental decision making, and attempt to elucidate the apparent reasons
for their success or failure. The conveners consider the following as
potential topics for discussion:

*         Simplistic versus complex models - Do the benefits of complex
models justify their use?

*         Deterministic or stochastic modeling? - Their pro's and con's for
decision making and for expert testimony.

*         Dealing with uncertainty - Rigorous evaluation vs. communication?

*         How can you tell a good model from a bad? - Is there no hope for
the decision maker to tell the difference?

*         Modeling objectives - Who sets them, are they realistic, and who
evaluates the results?

*         Collaboration with stakeholders - Best practices, new paradigms,
and future directions.

Abstracts for this session are due no later than September 10th, 2008:
please review the instructions on the following page
(http://submissions3.agu.org/submission/subm-ins.htm) regarding submittals.

We hope that you will be able to join us for some lively debate in December

Regards,

Matt Tonkin, S.S. Papadopulos & Assoc., Inc.
  <blocked::mailto:matt@...> matt@...

Dave Miller, Fluor Hanford, Richland, WA

David_S_Miller@...

Alex Spiliotopoulos, S.S. Papadopulos & Assoc, Inc.

alexs@...

Friday, September 5, 2008 5:05 PM
From: "sisaygrm" <sisaygrm@...>
To: "C. P. Kumar" <cpkumar@...>

Hello Kumar,

I got your mail from feflow yahoo groups.I recognize that you
effectively did model using feflow.I am curretly doing my msc research
on groundwater flow modelling.It is my first time to use feflow and I
encounter many problems while working on it.

one of the thing is how to prepare input files such *.trp, *.lin,
etc..

Can you give me information on how to change this files to point files
and line files?

hope to hear your help,

Sisay

Erfurt,Germany

Dear members,

I am new user of feflow,

Can you help  me on how exactily to make *.trp file?

thnx,

tesma

Hello everybody.

Im trying to instal feflow, but my computer has Widescreen Monitor, and I cant
use the specifications for the monitor resolution.
Does anybody knows if is there a way to change the Feflow configuration or the
Exceed configuration?

Thank you all

Geoambiente - Geologia Ambiental e Poços Ltda
Eng. Rodrigo Augusto D. Neves
Project Manager
Tel: (55 17) 3227-5769
Cel: (55 17) 9758-5568

Hello all-

I am trying to refine a mesh in a small area of my 3-D model but the
refine and derefine options cannot be selected even after following
the steps described in the FEFLOW documentation. Is there anything
else that is not listed in the documentation that I need to do before
refine and derefine can be selected?

Thanks,

Claudius

2nd International FEFLOW User Conference
September 14-18, 2009, Berlin, Germany

Dear FEFLOW Users,

The 2nd International FEFLOW User Conference, FEFLOW 2009, will mark
the 30th anniversary of FEFLOW software. Since its first relase in
1979 as a purely scientific program, FEFLOW has undergone significant
development over the years, making it today´s premium simulation
software for subsurface and porous media modelling.

Building on the success of a series of previous FEFLOW user
conferences, FEFLOW 2009 will feature numerous opportunities for
exchanging ideas and improving your simulation skills. Highlights
include:

Keynote presentations of trends and latest ideas in numerical
modelling of water resources and related fields
User presentations showcasing the ways in which customers are using
FEFLOW to solve challenging problems
Product updates
Opportunities to meet with DHI-WASY partners

Conference Topics

Topic 1 Recent developments in finite-element modelling of flow and
transport in subsurface and porous media: FEM, solvers, parallel
computing, coupled problems

Topic 2 Software technology: interfaces, GIS, 3D graphics

Topic 3 Applications in water resources: large models, groundwater
and surface water interaction, MIKE interfacing, calibration and
parameter estimation, technical optimisation, reactive multi-species
transport, reliability of modelling, variable-density problems,
fracture flows

Topic 4 Geothermal applications: borehole heat exchanger systems,
heat extraction systems, large-scale simulation, response tests,
model coupling

Topic 5 Porous media applications: unsaturated flow simulations,
material development, specific fields

Call for Papers

Abstracts may be submitted to the Organizing Committee before January
31, 2009. Please email your abstract (up to 300 words) in MS Word
format to feflow2009@..., including information about author
(s), organization(s), email address(es) and whether oral or poster
presentation is preferred.

DHI-WASY will again award free FEFLOW licences for the best oral and
poster presentations.

Key Dates

Abstract submission  January 31, 2009
Notification of acceptance of abstracts February 28, 2009
Paper submission July 31, 2009
FEFLOW 2009 conference dates September 14-16, 2009
FEFLOW 2009 training courses  September 17-18, 2009

[Source:
http://www.wasy.de/Supportwasy/Veranstaltungen/Conference2009.aspx ]

SSP&A is excited to be able to host the following course in Bethesda,
Maryland (USA) this September, 2008:

"Building and Applying Analytical Element Models with Examples and Exercises
using Python"

Analytic element models are often refreshingly easy to understand, and
insightful. The best approach to learn the analytic element method is to
implement it in a simple computer program. This sounds daunting, but using
the Python language, it is possible for any hydrogeologist with a basic
understanding of the building blocks of a computer program. In this new
course, you will build your own analytic element model, and have a great
time doing it.

The course is taught by Dr. Mark Bakker. Mark has taught for 10 years at
American universities and now teaches at the Delft University of Technology
in The Netherlands. In addition, Mark is a consultant for Kiwa WR in Holland
and for WHPA in Bloomington, IN. Mark received his Ph.D. at the University
of Minnesota under the guidance of Prof. Otto Strack, the originator of the
analytic element method. Mark has written a number of analytic element
programs, of which TimML, the free, open-source analytic element model for
steady multi-aquifer flow is the most extensive. Mark has taught workshops
in Python for Hydrologists and used Python in his Computational Methods
class at the University of Georgia, where students were programming in
Python after a basic 2 hour lecture.

For further information on the course, please visit the following web page,
or write to matt@... :

  <http://www.sspa.com/Software/analytic.shtml>
http://www.sspa.com/Software/analytic.shtml

Registration will be limited to 12 attendees. A block of rooms has been
arranged at a nearby hotel for course participants - details are provided on
the web page.

Best wishes -

Matt Tonkin
S.S. Papadopulos & Assoc., Inc.
Tel:    301 718 8900 x258
email: matt@...

Hello Ghulam,

I built a small model based on the data you sent. I added a line to the
data points with an END.  If this is not in the trp file, feflow will
not read the file.  I used the file to Assign/Database/Data
Regionalization menu to assign initial heads.  It worked fine.

Is it possible that the coordinate system of your fem is different from
the coordinate system in your trp file?  If the points in the trp are
outside the fem due to a difference in coordinate systems, it cannot
find any points inside the model to work with resulting in the error
message you see.

*Pete



Ghulam mujtaba wrote:
>
> Hello Feflow Group,
>
> I am modeling a large area=6.0695E+9 (m2). When I am importing initial
> Hydraulic heads from a .trp file: , Feflow pops up with following Error:
> A Worse distribution occurs!
> Difference between maximun and minimum crossponds to 0.000000e+00.
> Impossible to draw.
>
> I am attaching the .trp file.
>
> Early response would be appriciated.
>
> Best Regards
> Mujtaba Ghulam
>
> 671668.19 3378632.00 134.71
> 671158.38 3376349.75 134.19
> 671396.44 3374017.50 133.82
> 671768.19 3372438.25 133.22
> 672501.88 3370512.00 132.38
> 673375.50 3368249.50 130.81
> 673980.38 3365928.75 130.85
> 674359.56 3363236.25 130.72
> 673417.19 3360788.50 129.42
> 672908.00 3357470.75 128.02
> 672278.63 3354077.50 125.75
> 672447.50 3349740.75 125.59
> 672321.13 3345508.75 125.30
> 672115.44 3342008.75 123.99
> 672451.63 3337447.50 122.64
> 672913.56 3334281.50 122.08
> 673587.75 3330860.00 121.58
> 674702.44 3327357.25 120.92
> 676206.06 3323185.00 119.22
> 676841.63 3319068.50 117.97
> 678039.94 3316013.25 116.94
> 677782.69 3313046.00 116.21
> 677173.19 3310530.25 115.65
> 675921.19 3307898.75 115.19
> 674502.81 3305628.00 114.92
> 673283.50 3302552.50 114.07
> 672090.88 3298752.75 112.82
> 670245.56 3295294.50 110.95
> 668792.25 3291702.00 110.27
> 667510.38 3288147.75 110.05
> 665799.06 3283956.75 109.21
> 664208.94 3279737.25 107.34
> 662338.50 3275618.50 107.34
> 661826.25 3271584.25 105.94
> 661523.75 3268658.00 105.29
> 661624.38 3265804.75 103.92
> 662190.00 3263030.00 102.29
> 662456.25 3260781.50 101.81
> 661994.31 3257724.00 101.06
> 660709.06 3254467.75 100.36
> 660053.88 3250393.50 99.21
> 658664.38 3247076.00 97.95
> 658334.31 3242565.00 97.86
> 656912.31 3238382.50 97.08
> 655473.06 3233023.00 94.79
> 654078.63 3227714.00 93.26
> 652365.19 3221708.25 93.27
> 653887.75 3219354.25 93.27
> 728924.50 3351580.00 116.86
> 726423.88 3353390.00 118.11
> 722392.50 3356421.00 119.59
> 719108.38 3358696.25 121.01
> 716254.13 3360663.50 122.25
> 710343.94 3364670.50 124.95
> 705235.13 3368176.50 127.22
> 702129.81 3370781.00 128.52
> 695718.75 3375088.25 130.66
> 692312.88 3378193.75 132.01
> 690309.44 3379295.50 132.52
> 689207.56 3379596.00 132.76
> 685701.50 3378794.75 133.03
> 679991.69 3378193.75 133.66
> 677086.69 3378193.75 134.01
> 673881.19 3378694.50 134.59
> 671727.31 3378673.00 134.72
> 653887.75 3219378.75 93.27
> 656999.38 3217752.75 93.27
> 658508.56 3217866.50 93.27
> 660269.81 3220585.50 93.27
> 662067.31 3222646.25 93.27
> 664226.13 3223903.25 93.27
> 667104.56 3223922.75 93.27
> 670844.94 3224404.25 93.27
> 672620.31 3226554.50 93.26
> 672967.56 3230326.25 93.27
> 674709.19 3232465.50 93.47
> 677691.31 3231345.25 93.31
> 681037.19 3232023.00 93.58
> 684716.19 3234644.00 94.74
> 688235.69 3237219.75 95.78
> 689655.31 3239801.25 97.15
> 691220.25 3243035.50 98.21
> 693933.69 3244821.50 98.48
> 696303.56 3247426.00 100.36
> 698245.56 3250605.75 103.66
> 698608.63 3254466.75 102.76
> 698116.50 3258221.75 102.83
> 697527.44 3260817.00 103.19
> 696562.88 3263246.50 103.44
> 696110.13 3265879.00 103.94
> 697512.38 3268867.25 104.82
> 697854.31 3271948.50 105.04
> 698572.00 3275496.50 105.34
> 698825.25 3278400.00 105.91
> 699750.25 3280655.00 106.27
> 702796.63 3281050.75 105.78
> 706569.94 3279978.50 105.88
> 708447.50 3282656.50 106.00
> 709165.38 3285887.25 106.23
> 710223.81 3290682.25 107.89
> 712160.81 3293632.00 108.44
> 713292.75 3296848.50 108.59
> 713646.94 3300401.00 108.81
> 713701.81 3304054.25 109.23
> 714051.81 3307648.50 109.70
> 715294.75 3310947.75 109.77
> 716560.25 3314380.75 109.97
> 715603.13 3317592.75 111.01
> 714843.63 3320611.25 111.93
> 717733.44 3323496.50 112.58
> 720126.50 3325691.75 112.93
> 720517.50 3328347.00 113.28
> 720646.75 3331729.50 113.51
> 722243.88 3334541.50 113.75
> 723928.19 3336690.75 114.31
> 725846.75 3339037.50 114.72
> 727286.50 3341209.50 115.22
> 728009.13 3344209.75 115.87
> 728392.25 3347703.50 116.53
> 729339.31 3351222.75 116.83

Hello Feflow Group,

I am modeling a large area=6.0695E+9 (m2). When I am importing initial Hydraulic
heads from a .trp file: , Feflow pops up with following Error:
A Worse distribution occurs!
Difference between maximun and minimum crossponds to 0.000000e+00.
Impossible to draw.

I am attaching the .trp file.

Early response would be appriciated.

Best Regards
Mujtaba Ghulam


671668.19 3378632.00 134.71
671158.38 3376349.75 134.19
671396.44 3374017.50 133.82
671768.19 3372438.25 133.22
672501.88 3370512.00 132.38
673375.50 3368249.50 130.81
673980.38 3365928.75 130.85
674359.56 3363236.25 130.72
673417.19 3360788.50 129.42
672908.00 3357470.75 128.02
672278.63 3354077.50 125.75
672447.50 3349740.75 125.59
672321.13 3345508.75 125.30
672115.44 3342008.75 123.99
672451.63 3337447.50 122.64
672913.56 3334281.50 122.08
673587.75 3330860.00 121.58
674702.44 3327357.25 120.92
676206.06 3323185.00 119.22
676841.63 3319068.50 117.97
678039.94 3316013.25 116.94
677782.69 3313046.00 116.21
677173.19 3310530.25 115.65
675921.19 3307898.75 115.19
674502.81 3305628.00 114.92
673283.50 3302552.50 114.07
672090.88 3298752.75 112.82
670245.56 3295294.50 110.95
668792.25 3291702.00 110.27
667510.38 3288147.75 110.05
665799.06 3283956.75 109.21
664208.94 3279737.25 107.34
662338.50 3275618.50 107.34
661826.25 3271584.25 105.94
661523.75 3268658.00 105.29
661624.38 3265804.75 103.92
662190.00 3263030.00 102.29
662456.25 3260781.50 101.81
661994.31 3257724.00 101.06
660709.06 3254467.75 100.36
660053.88 3250393.50 99.21
658664.38 3247076.00 97.95
658334.31 3242565.00 97.86
656912.31 3238382.50 97.08
655473.06 3233023.00 94.79
654078.63 3227714.00 93.26
652365.19 3221708.25 93.27
653887.75 3219354.25 93.27
728924.50 3351580.00 116.86
726423.88 3353390.00 118.11
722392.50 3356421.00 119.59
719108.38 3358696.25 121.01
716254.13 3360663.50 122.25
710343.94 3364670.50 124.95
705235.13 3368176.50 127.22
702129.81 3370781.00 128.52
695718.75 3375088.25 130.66
692312.88 3378193.75 132.01
690309.44 3379295.50 132.52
689207.56 3379596.00 132.76
685701.50 3378794.75 133.03
679991.69 3378193.75 133.66
677086.69 3378193.75 134.01
673881.19 3378694.50 134.59
671727.31 3378673.00 134.72
653887.75 3219378.75 93.27
656999.38 3217752.75 93.27
658508.56 3217866.50 93.27
660269.81 3220585.50 93.27
662067.31 3222646.25 93.27
664226.13 3223903.25 93.27
667104.56 3223922.75 93.27
670844.94 3224404.25 93.27
672620.31 3226554.50 93.26
672967.56 3230326.25 93.27
674709.19 3232465.50 93.47
677691.31 3231345.25 93.31
681037.19 3232023.00 93.58
684716.19 3234644.00 94.74
688235.69 3237219.75 95.78
689655.31 3239801.25 97.15
691220.25 3243035.50 98.21
693933.69 3244821.50 98.48
696303.56 3247426.00 100.36
698245.56 3250605.75 103.66
698608.63 3254466.75 102.76
698116.50 3258221.75 102.83
697527.44 3260817.00 103.19
696562.88 3263246.50 103.44
696110.13 3265879.00 103.94
697512.38 3268867.25 104.82
697854.31 3271948.50 105.04
698572.00 3275496.50 105.34
698825.25 3278400.00 105.91
699750.25 3280655.00 106.27
702796.63 3281050.75 105.78
706569.94 3279978.50 105.88
708447.50 3282656.50 106.00
709165.38 3285887.25 106.23
710223.81 3290682.25 107.89
712160.81 3293632.00 108.44
713292.75 3296848.50 108.59
713646.94 3300401.00 108.81
713701.81 3304054.25 109.23
714051.81 3307648.50 109.70
715294.75 3310947.75 109.77
716560.25 3314380.75 109.97
715603.13 3317592.75 111.01
714843.63 3320611.25 111.93
717733.44 3323496.50 112.58
720126.50 3325691.75 112.93
720517.50 3328347.00 113.28
720646.75 3331729.50 113.51
722243.88 3334541.50 113.75
723928.19 3336690.75 114.31
725846.75 3339037.50 114.72
727286.50 3341209.50 115.22
728009.13 3344209.75 115.87
728392.25 3347703.50 116.53
729339.31 3351222.75 116.83

Thanks for your response Peter.

We have had no success with the MODFLOW Lake package - it just seems
to create numerical instability.

Regards

Brian

--- In feflow@..., Pete Sinton <psinton@...> wrote:
>
> I've modeled underground voids and lakes in FEFLOW using the method
you
> describe.  I know of no better approach in FEFLOW.  There are
modules
> for MODFLOW that could be adapted using the IFM.
>
> These references may useful:
>
> Anderson, M.P., R.J. Hunt, J.T. Krohelski, and K. Chung. 2002.
Using
> high hydraulic conductivity nodes to simulate seepage lakes. Ground
> Water 40, no. 2: 119-124.
>
> Cheng, X., and M.P. Anderson. 1993. Numerical simulation of ground-
water
> interaction with lakes allowing for fluctuating lake levels. Ground
> Water 31, no. 6: 929-933.
>
> The large-K/Sy=1 approach seems to work as well as the fancy lake
> packages developed for MODFLOW and other models.
>
> Pete
>
> bbarnett40 wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone had experience in using FEFLOW to calculate water
levels in
> > surface water bodies?
> >
> > Usually surface water bodies are included in groundwater models
as head
> > dependent boundary conditions. In other words the water levels in
lakes
> > or ponds are specified in the model input. However in many
instances
> > it would be useful to use the model to caluclate the water levels
in
> > the lake, pond or void. In the past we have addressed this
problem by
> > including the size and shape of void in the model grid structure
and
> > defined hydraulic parameters representative of a surface water
body (ie
> > extremely high hydraulic conductivity, storage of 1.0 and recharge
> > defined as the excess of rainfall over evaporation) to the volume
of
> > the void.
> >
> > Is there a more sophisticated solution available in FEFLOW?
> >
> > Cheers
>

I've modeled underground voids and lakes in FEFLOW using the method you
describe.  I know of no better approach in FEFLOW.  There are modules
for MODFLOW that could be adapted using the IFM.

These references may useful:

Anderson, M.P., R.J. Hunt, J.T. Krohelski, and K. Chung. 2002. Using
high hydraulic conductivity nodes to simulate seepage lakes. Ground
Water 40, no. 2: 119-124.

Cheng, X., and M.P. Anderson. 1993. Numerical simulation of ground-water
interaction with lakes allowing for fluctuating lake levels. Ground
Water 31, no. 6: 929-933.

The large-K/Sy=1 approach seems to work as well as the fancy lake
packages developed for MODFLOW and other models.

Pete

bbarnett40 wrote:
>
> Has anyone had experience in using FEFLOW to calculate water levels in
> surface water bodies?
>
> Usually surface water bodies are included in groundwater models as head
> dependent boundary conditions. In other words the water levels in lakes
> or ponds are specified in the model input. However in many instances
> it would be useful to use the model to caluclate the water levels in
> the lake, pond or void. In the past we have addressed this problem by
> including the size and shape of void in the model grid structure and
> defined hydraulic parameters representative of a surface water body (ie
> extremely high hydraulic conductivity, storage of 1.0 and recharge
> defined as the excess of rainfall over evaporation) to the volume of
> the void.
>
> Is there a more sophisticated solution available in FEFLOW?
>
> Cheers

Has anyone had experience in using FEFLOW to calculate water levels in
surface water bodies?

Usually surface water bodies are included in groundwater models as head
dependent boundary conditions. In other words the water levels in lakes
or ponds are specified in the model input.  However in many instances
it would be useful to use the model to caluclate the water levels in
the lake, pond or void. In the past we have addressed this problem by
including the size and shape of void in the model grid structure and
defined hydraulic parameters representative of a surface water body (ie
extremely high hydraulic conductivity, storage of 1.0 and recharge
defined as the excess of rainfall over evaporation) to the volume of
the void.

Is there a more sophisticated solution available in FEFLOW?

Cheers

Shaun/Brian:

Thermal conductivity of 2.10 W/mC is approriate for alluvial material.  For
consolidated material such as carbonate rock (and crystalline material), it is
much higher (about 5W/mC).

Ok, so I think you have an open-loop system rather than a closed loop in which
heat exchange is through the pipes.  Yes, in that case FEFLOW and pretty much
any other model such as MODFLOW/MT3D will work.

Let me know if you need any more help.  I am preparing for conducting
non-isothermal flow and transport simulations at the Nevada Test Site.

Best wishes,

Tiraz Birdie



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: bbarnett40
   To: feflow@...
   Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 8:39 PM
   Subject: [feflow] Re: geothermal model


   Shaun

   Thermal conductivity of saturated aquifer is typically 2.10 W/mC and
   thermal heat capacity of rock grains about 1000 J/kgC.

   Cheers

   Brian

   --- In feflow@..., Shaun Glorie <shaunglorie@...> wrote:
   >
   > hey tiraz
   >
   > i don't know what you mean by loop? we will be be abstracting the
   water and pumping it back in, with the added heat over a 250m area.
   we want to know flows and heat distribution over time. my main
   concern is with parameters such as heat capacity and conductivity.
   i'm having some trouble finding info on these parameters.
   >
   >
   >
   > --- On Mon, 16/6/08, Tiraz Birdie <tbirdie@...> wrote:
   >
   > From: Tiraz Birdie <tbirdie@...>
   > Subject: Re: [feflow] geothermal model
   > To: feflow@...
   > Date: Monday, 16 June, 2008, 3:10 PM
   >
   > Hi Shaun:
   >
   > Will you be using FEFLOW for modeling the subsurface medium or
   both, the subsurface and the loops ?
   >
   > Tiraz Birdie
   >
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: shaunglorie
   > To: feflow@yahoogroups. co.in
   > Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:10 AM
   > Subject: [feflow] geothermal model
   >
   > Hey everyone
   >
   > Does any one have any papers of models that use feflow to model heat
   > transport from the use of geothermal energy. In my case groundwater
   > will be used to cool residential and commercial buildings. Any
   > information would be helpful
   >
   > Thanks
   > Shaun

Shaun

Thermal conductivity of saturated aquifer is typically 2.10 W/mC and
thermal heat capacity of rock grains about 1000 J/kgC.

Cheers

Brian

--- In feflow@..., Shaun Glorie <shaunglorie@...> wrote:
>
> hey tiraz
>
> i don't know what you mean by loop? we will be be abstracting the
water and pumping it back in, with the added heat over a 250m area.
we want to know flows and heat distribution over time. my main
concern is with parameters such as heat capacity and conductivity.
i'm having some trouble finding info on these parameters.
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 16/6/08, Tiraz Birdie <tbirdie@...> wrote:
>
> From: Tiraz Birdie <tbirdie@...>
> Subject: Re: [feflow] geothermal model
> To: feflow@...
> Date: Monday, 16 June, 2008, 3:10 PM
>
> Hi Shaun:
>
> Will you be using FEFLOW for modeling the subsurface medium or
both, the subsurface and the loops ?
>
> Tiraz Birdie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shaunglorie
> To: feflow@yahoogroups. co.in
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:10 AM
> Subject: [feflow] geothermal model
>
> Hey everyone
>
> Does any one have any papers of models that use feflow to model heat
> transport from the use of geothermal energy. In my case groundwater
> will be used to cool residential and commercial buildings. Any
> information would be helpful
>
> Thanks
> Shaun
>

hey tiraz

i don't know what you mean by loop? we will be be abstracting the water and
pumping it back in, with the added heat over a 250m area. we want to know flows
and heat distribution over time. my main concern is with parameters such as heat
capacity and conductivity. i'm having some trouble finding info on these
parameters.



--- On Mon, 16/6/08, Tiraz Birdie <tbirdie@...> wrote:

From: Tiraz Birdie <tbirdie@...>
Subject: Re: [feflow] geothermal model
To: feflow@...
Date: Monday, 16 June, 2008, 3:10 PM

Hi Shaun:

Will you be using FEFLOW for modeling the subsurface medium or both, the
subsurface and the loops ?

Tiraz Birdie

----- Original Message -----
From: shaunglorie
To: feflow@yahoogroups. co.in
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:10 AM
Subject: [feflow] geothermal model

Hey everyone

Does any one have any papers of models that use feflow to model heat
transport from the use of geothermal energy. In my case groundwater
will be used to cool residential and commercial buildings. Any
information would be helpful

Thanks
Shaun

Hi Shaun:

Will you be using FEFLOW for modeling the subsurface medium or both, the
subsurface and the loops ?

Tiraz Birdie




   ----- Original Message -----
   From: shaunglorie
   To: feflow@...
   Sent: Monday, June 16, 2008 1:10 AM
   Subject: [feflow] geothermal model


   Hey everyone

   Does any one have any papers of models that use feflow to model heat
   transport from the use of geothermal energy. In my case groundwater
   will be used to cool residential and commercial buildings. Any
   information would be helpful

   Thanks
   Shaun

Hey everyone

Does any one have any papers of models that use feflow to model heat
transport from the use of geothermal energy. In my case groundwater
will be used to cool residential and commercial buildings. Any
information would be helpful

Thanks
Shaun

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