FRiends,
Any story, including SF must relate to our lives in past present or future, if not, then at the least it should expand our imagination, at the same time it must be entertaining.
We are attempting to find sources for our SF stories.
As already said, mythology is one source, and it is not the only source. When we say use mythology as a source, we certainly do not mean that science it self shouold not be used. Indeed a source from mythology would ultimately need the latest science to metamorphose into an SF. So S&T is the essential part of SF, always. A seed may be taken from our society, from past present or future, or the almost eternal mythology.
When one creates a Bhasmaasur, what is important is how does that Bhasmaasur relate to human conditions, and many stories can be written on the concept of Bhasmaasur for different human conditions. Similarly, Trishanku need not be understood as a man, it is a concept of a body which could not attain the needed escape velocity. Rahu Ketu need not be demons, they are just some points of conjunctions for a particular eclipse to occur.
Both the sources viz. science itelf and mythology are or can be valid sources. Their success would depend upon how relevant they can be made to humanity of any timer. Taking a seed from mythology need not be a retrograd step, although a few writers make them so.
Sometimes a great SF story without a seed from mythology, appears like 'mythology'.
An SF story cannot reach 'escape velocity' without appropriate S&T whichever seed it may use.
An author using either of the seeds can create great SF, depending upon his knowledge of S&T, his creativity, his ability to do research to create the scaffold of S&T to create the edifice of SF.
It is interesting to take part in such a frank discussion.
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
From: Arvind Mishra <arvind_drmishra@...>
Reply-To: indiansciencefiction@...
To: indiansciencefiction@...
Subject: Re: [indiansciencefiction] SF & Mythology
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 04:08:26 +0100 (BST)
Dear All,
I am really idebted to AVM Tiwari ji for his viewsiexpressed in such an interesting and simplified way so as to make our current discussion reach an amicable agreement.In his scholary deliberation he has gone at length to address many queries raised so far on the subject.One has to appreciate the stuff only by keeping aside personal biases and prejudices.
I am so inspired by the intellectually satiating debate now that i cant resist myself to just add something more for a while to substantite the stand advocating in favour of mythology and sf conglomeration.
Remember FRANKENSTEIN?And also BHASMASUR? Is not it tempting to draw a parallel in plots and to some extent in contents and morale of both the stories?Former one is credited to be first modern sf written in 1818 but the latter no less than a thousand year old fantasy.Ofcourse Marry Shelly put some s&t of her time to facilitate unknowingly it to be catogarized under sf by the critics of later dates.Thae story of Bhasmasur while has a happy ending,frankenstein ,s end is awesome and frightening as is usual with many western classics.
Yes i do agree that s&t are inseparable part of sf but is it only made of S&T?One can also argue that when fantasy aspect of mythology and sf are same how to differentiate in between both the genres?Here lies the crux of the ongoing debate.
Swapnil please note that while myhological fantasies,its fictional society usually can not be connected with our own by any rational set of changes, fantasies of sf have their roots in contemporary S&T.Background and settings of many of modern sf may look very unfamiliar but they could be attianed with approprite changes in the level of our S&T.Its not the case with our many myths but still they have a ray of hope to be realized in eternity of time and space.
I am leaving now from here for a while though many a points are still at loose end to be taken care of some other groupmates.WELCOME PLEASE!
arvind
Friends,Rukhsana Yasmin is more than welcome amongst the Science students and lovers, as she has a different approach to the subject.It is correct that lots of events in mythology are based on supernatural powers of one kind or another; and SF is based on science.The relationship between them is of IDEAS, emerging from human minds. Ideas are the most important aspect of creativity.What we are generally discussing on this subject in this forum is that we can take an idea from mythology and then transform it to suit our 'worldview' and create SF by replacing the supernatural power with Science. Mythology has still got super ideas that science has not demonstrated yet.Matter and energy are indestructible, they interchange between them.What about event? If an event is interaction between matter and energy, then the law of conservation applies.But if an event involves a human being and his mind, then?An idea can also be indestructible. It may change and yet it may not even change under force! The world of mind, I mean laws of mind, are different from that of the world of matter.Although mathematically time can flow in either direction; but physically it flows in one direction only; from past to present to future. Ink porured out from abottle on the ground, cannot go back into the bottle, merely by travelling back. It goes against the laws of gravity. Also entropy is always increasing, i.e. time is one way traffic.Scientifically, there cannot be a time machine travelling towards the past, its past. One persons past may be anothers future, but one persons past cannot become his own future, and vice versa. Historically and metaphorically past is prsent in present and therefore in future, also following the laws of causality.What is death? There are two types of changes, reverswible and irreversible. Can we not say that the irreversible event has been destroyed ! Death is also an irreversible change in the human state. Nobody can dip into the same river twice ! Ofcourse we maintain that in either of the changes conservation law applies, and yet irreversible events are destroyed and human deaths occur.Mythology gives a new vision of future but with the help of supernatural forces, but the vision can be new as in SF.ThanksVishwa Mohan Tiwari
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
From: Rukhsana Yasmin <yasmin_rukhsana@yahoo.com>
Reply-To: indiansciencefiction@yahoogroups. co.in
To: indiansciencefiction@yahoogroups. co.in
Subject: Re: [indiansciencefiction] SF & Mythology
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 06:34:30 -0700 (PDT)
hello.....its nice to see people giving their views in such explainative way......but i ve few points of mine to put forward and few questions as well which i expect to be answered by u intellectsfirst of all i fail to understand the relation between mythology and science fiction.....mythology is more of based on supernatural powers......mostly in divine powers and magic....and science fiction is based on scientific facts and technology.. .. i agree tht ENERGY can neither be created not destroyed but changes frm one form to other....but events????how can one say the same for events????.........and also discovery and inventions are two different things.......newton disocvered the law of gravity...coz it already existed tht we never noticed..... newton did....we discover something which already exist in universe... but when RIGHT brother invented plane ...it was an invention.....it wasn't a transformation of one phase to other.....it was altogether a new event...... how can one credit harry potter and arabian nights as motivation for science fiction????u mean to say......one day a "wand" will be created and with few words i'll be able to fly , become invisible or go into the past and look into it???? sounds odd to me......what has happened has happened.....one can't save the past like a backup we do in virtual world..... also.....human being can change itself frm one form to other at their will???? is it possible????maybe but then change could be permanent......due to mutation.... ...unlike in mythology... .people changing their state at their mere wish and coming back to normal self.... how mythology can give a way to science fiction?????science fiction is often speculated on current science and technologies and future of technologies... it gives a vision tht could be achieved in future .......but how can mythology?????
zeashan zaidi <zeashanzaidi@yahoo.com> wrote:Friends,Under the discussion of SF & Mythology, I want to say that every creativity made by human is always exists in the nature. It is only the presentation on which we say that it is a new creation. So if a person creates something new, it always be a new version of some old creations made by nature or human itself. The same rule is true in case of creating SF ( future ) and written mythology ( past ).Einstein principle of conservation of mass and energy in the universe is also applicable for events of universe. Event neither be created nor destroyed, it only changes shape in different parts of universe(s). therefore there is no past event, no future event. Event which is past for we, may be a future for some other place ( or Universe ). Because time has different speeds in different universes, it may be negative somewhere, may be for antimatters that creates a negative universe where all physical laws behave opposite in the context of our universe and perhaps the past time of there will be the future time of here.The similar rules are applicable on futuristic SF and past mythologies. Former is a change of state of later. In this context we can take example of Arabian Nights, the tales of 1000 nights which possess a lot of fantasies, many of them are the challenges of our modern S& T. Some of that fantasies are now real ( as talking globe or automatic door ), many of them are the concept of some newer SF stories ( or Harry Potter type stories ) means that past can be a motivator of the future. At last there is no death in the universe, it is only a change of state.Thank YouZeashan Zaidi
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