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What Format Should Governments Choose!   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #1791 of 3488 |
Re: [indiansciencefiction] Re: What Format Should Governments Choose!

Advancement of the discussion is ok but what conceivable  connections  all this  may have with sf is more important here.
If someone tries to extrapolate its significance in the perspectives of sf writing , it would  be perhaps more relevant and pertinent to a forum like this.
I am extremely thankful to Gene,ML Gupta  and VMT for participating  in a lively discussion.
 I always liked  the  idea  of suitably  paying  an inventor  of its IP even if it empties tax payers ballet a bit.
But since it is a highly controversial issue there seems to be no end to discussions on it.
arvind
2008/6/3 swapnil.bhartiya <arnieswap@...>:

Gene, please ignore my previous email on the same issue, consider this one: (Swapnil)



Gene wrote:
Again, these are separate matters. They are very important considerations, especially when thinking about individual use. But this does not remove the problem of being at the mercy of those who decide what kinds of large scale systems are to be deployed by governments, and how accessible online services will be.


Gene, very true, and that is the reason why stories like these matter, as they ask questions. Agreeing with you I would give an example, a very interesting episode: schools in karnataks state (5 grade) have chapter on MS Office, so when the kid reaches home and find OpenOffice running, he demands to spend INR 7K and buy MS Office. So, you are correct, but ELCOT (an organisation in Tamil Nadu) has done great job in influencing government dicision and adoption of Linux anf FOSS has increased. Also Microsoft builds a lot of pressure on decision makers to buy their solutions. I recall a meeting with a guy from a neighbours country's IT ministry. He said that they had to buy licences from Microsoft as there was great pressure. So, their FOSS project was under threat but he was assured that the licences will rot in store and they can continue working on Linux. For my recent story I called up CBSE spokesperson as MICROSOFT is in CBSE's curriculum. Imagine an institution set up by public money fills the pocket of a corporate. So, we need these the kind of will power formar guy showed at government level. But we as citizens are also the stakeholeder, we need to build pressure. You know when India rejected OOXML to be approved as ISO, Microsoft sent letters saying that IIT Bombay, the biggest IT temple of India, worked againts nation's interets. A US based company is accusing our institution as working againts nation's interest? This is now a serious matter.

Fortunately, currently India, Venezuella, Brazil, Denmark and South Africa have filed objections with ISO on the approval of OOXML. ISO is under great pressure, I interviewed Roger Frost, though he was very cooperative, but pressure from the ODF community will discourage them from doing what they did at BRM.

Gene, the best thing that OOXML episode has done is making people aware of the dangers of using closed source or closed standards.

Not even Gnu/Linux necessarily removes this onus, for we have to consider the various flavors of Linux: Debian, Knoppix, SuSe, Yellowhat, Redhat, and how they are to be maintained and managed. Not all Linux flavors are equal. Users in environments that deploy Linux on a large scale are still at the mercy of whoever is in charge of the IT management end of the system.

These options are, in my opinion, far more open standards-based than anything else on offer, and they present a better platform for deciding real international standards. This is why so many private investment companies are desperately seeking ways to patent Linux or sue it out of existence for purportedly violating someone's claimed (but usually prior art-based) patents. FOSS and Gnu/Linux represent a sizeable threat to commercial interests.


Here I can't understand certain things, so please bear with me for a while. What I feel is, various flavours of Linux is the beauty of Linux, you can choose which one you want depending on your need without any interoperability issue. But we have been tamed to live in a world without options. As you mentioned, Knoppix is good for IT admins who want to restore data, it is NOT to be installed on machines. I meet Klaus Knopper every year and that's pretty clear -- Knoppix is a LIVE distribution. Debian is also for servers as they focus on stability and due to that their stable branch (currently Etch) stays pretty old. I liked SuSE for its integration,  after Microsoft-Novell deal I stopped using it. Red Hat's RHEL is for servers and its Fedora may be for home users. But for an ordinary user the best choice are Ubuntu, Mandriva or PC Linux OS. These flavours are more easier than Windows to use and install. In our office, we use Linux on 80 % machines. All my friends have been converted to Linux and Ubuntu comes handy. So, I suggest a home user must go for Ubuntu. (Ubuntu is based on Debian and Mandriva on RedHat). Additionally there is NO interoperability problems within Linux. In office I use Debian and at home I have Fedora 9, Mandriva and Ubuntu installed on same machine and I keep switching, just for change without affecting any of my files or work. Its like having 4 different cars and all are like BMWs, Lamborginis, Ferraris...:-)

India is one of the biggest adopters of FOSS. Also in India most of the institutions are migrating to Linux, many banks have migrated to Linux. I was at NXP semiconductors last month and even they have migrated their back end from Unix to Linux. So Linux is catching up. As you mentioned being at the mercy of those who deploy it I agree, but we are the end users, they can't deploy what we don't use. We need to demand. We need to build pressure. And they will budge.



> These options are, in my opinion, far more open standards-based than
> anything else on offer, and they present a better platform for deciding real
> international standards. This is why so many private investment companies
> are desperately seeking ways to patent Linux or sue it out of existence for
> purportedly violating someoneąs claimed (but usually prior art-based)
> patents. FOSS and Gnu/Linux represent a sizeable threat to commercial
> interests.


I completely agree. But, as far as patent of Linux is concerned, I couldn't get what you wanted to say. Last year MS claimed that Linux infringes on it patents. I did a major story and even interviewed Linus Torvalds, who is usually not accessible (to read his interview, click here ). That threat from MS was only to get some Linux players in its camp. They did get Xendros, Linspire, Novell etc. It was a FUD. Microsoft couldn't name a single infringement till date (read full story which I did: The Conspiracy Theory:Linux Violates Microsoft's Patents  ). But after the Novell deal, RMS came out with GNU GPL V3 which ensures that there is no such case repeated. RMS is pretty smart at that one and Eben Moglin doesn't leave any holes. And with biggies like Sun, IBM, Google in FOSS camp (I am not certain if Sun will be comfortable with Linux in the light of its Solaris), there is going to be hard time for the closed source players. All we need to realise it that there is a major threat and if we don't stop using proprietary software, we will be at the mercy of those corporates which assuse our nation's biggest institution as working againts nation. This is challeng to all citizens....Are we still sleeping?

Swapnil



--
arvind mishra

Tue Jun 3, 2008 11:00 am

drarvind3@...
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Message #1791 of 3488 |
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Gene, please ignore my previous email on the same issue, consider this one: (Swapnil) Gene wrote: Again, these are separate matters. They are very important ...
swapnil.bhartiya
swapnil.bhar...
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Jun 3, 2008
10:01 am

Advancement of the discussion is ok but what conceivable connections all this may have with sf is more important here. If someone tries to extrapolate its...
arvind mishra
drarvind3@...
Send Email
Jun 3, 2008
11:00 am

AND of course thanks a lot to Swapnil for initiating a very important discussion on a burning issue of presnt times. ... -- arvind mishra AND of course thanks...
arvind mishra
drarvind3@...
Send Email
Jun 3, 2008
11:03 am

I always liked the idea of suitably paying an inventor of its IP even if it empties tax payers ballet a bit. But since it is a highly controversial issue...
swapnil.bhartiya
swapnil.bhar...
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Jun 3, 2008
11:35 am

SWAPNIL My humble suggestion was and still is to explore the possible sf connections to the issue. But being a proactive and a technology activist guy as you...
arvind mishra
drarvind3@...
Send Email
Jun 3, 2008
11:56 am

... SwapnilÂąs original article as quoted on the list did contain a sci-fi element. The year is 2090. There is a world wide outbreak of smallpox virus. The...
Gene van Troyer
gevantry
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Jun 3, 2008
12:27 pm

Right, Gene,it was the part which initially fascinated be but the later part of the discussion became technology obsessed...moving the fiction part to my...
arvind mishra
drarvind3@...
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Jun 3, 2008
12:45 pm

Dear Gene, Provoked by the issue, when I started talking to experts on OOXML, I did formulate a SF story, its almost done. I will share if with you as and when...
swapnil.bhartiya
swapnil.bhar...
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Jun 3, 2008
1:02 pm

... later ... part ... level ... Dear Arvind ji, This issue is highly sensitive. And I am surprised how come a forum which consist science communicators can...
swapnil.bhartiya
swapnil.bhar...
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Jun 3, 2008
6:02 pm

Swapnil, That's fine,You have done your part nicely.Now let others decide and do their part to save India and all that you are genuinely concerned about. ...
arvind mishra
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Jun 4, 2008
1:02 am

Swapnil jee thank you for the important and critcal information. I feel that apart from choosing the OS etc, I can do very little. For changing over from MS, i...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
onevishwa
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Jun 5, 2008
4:20 pm

Respected Sir, First of all I would like to thank you for realising the criticality and seriousness of the issue. To be honest with you using Linux is as ...
swapnil.bhartiya
swapnil.bhar...
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Jun 5, 2008
4:27 pm

Hats off to the altruistic behaviour Swapil, and congrats to VMT for this great opportunity. And if it is not the shameless self promotion ,hats off to this...
arvind mishra
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Jun 5, 2008
4:37 pm

Thanks Arvidn Ji! Dear all, Any one on the forum, who wants to try Linux, just let me know. All those who are in vicinity -- Delhi and NCR -- I will personally...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Jun 5, 2008
4:58 pm

thats great.....and data saving ? ??On 05/06/2008, swapnil.bhartiya < ... -- arvind mishra thats great.....and data saving ? ??On 05/06/2008, swapnil.bhartiya...
arvind mishra
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Jun 5, 2008
5:10 pm

actually LIVE CD comes as great help when your Windows crashes and u cant do anything but format thus deleting everything on C drive. But by using Linux u can...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Jun 5, 2008
5:21 pm

i request u to try... ... indiansciencefiction@...<indiansciencefiction%40yahoogroups.co.in>, ... criticality ... Linux is as ... friend have ......
swapnil.bhartiya
swapnil.bhar...
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Jun 5, 2008
5:25 pm

Arvind jee You are correct about Swapnil. Thanks vmt Vishwa Mohan Tiwari To: indiansciencefiction@...: drarvind3@...: Thu, 5 Jun...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
onevishwa
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Jun 6, 2008
11:10 am

Respected VMT, Altruism is a feature engraved in Man's GENES.And how a smart guy like Swapnil could be an exception? Lately, I have begun to realize the...
arvind mishra
drarvind3@...
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Jun 6, 2008
12:09 pm

Thanks for your words of praise, Arvind ji. If you want to give Linux a try I can send you DVD and CDs of Ubuntu. Please let me know :-) Swapnil ... since my ...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Jun 6, 2008
2:44 pm

Dear Swapnil   I have some doubt about ˇLinux˘. Though I have not much knowledge about this O.S. But if I am not wrong, It is an open source software,...
zeashan zaidi
zeashanzaidi
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Jun 20, 2008
4:29 pm

... knowledge about this O.S. But if I am not wrong, It is an open source software, anyone can change its functionality, therefore it is possible that some...
swapnil.bhartiya
swapnil.bhar...
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Jun 20, 2008
4:53 pm

... Malicious code? Windows is the most virus (malicious code) prone OS in existence. While it is possible to write viruses, trojans, and worms for Linux (as...
Gene van Troyer
gevantry
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Jun 20, 2008
10:53 pm

Zeeshan ji Linux kernel is managed by Linus Torvalds with the help of his friends. Anyone can contribute to the code. In case any harmful code is included then...
Unmukt
unmukt_s
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Jun 21, 2008
1:38 am

Do they keep notifyig  peruodically that it as been acanned for any malacious software or one may learn it the hard way also?   CMN Dr. Chandra Mohan...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
cmnautiyal
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Jun 22, 2008
1:54 am

... malacious software or one may learn it the hard way also? First of all -- there is NO malicious software getting embedded with Linux. And there is a manner...
swapnil.bhartiya
swapnil.bhar...
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Jun 22, 2008
2:26 am

thanks for clarifying.   The fraternity will never do anything maalcious, but there are mischief- mongers outside. In any case, once on net, there is so much...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
cmnautiyal
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Jun 23, 2008
11:11 am

"Once on net there is so much risk" All the software reside on the dedicated servers so no such threat. On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 9:59 AM, CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL...
swapnil BHARTIYA
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Jun 23, 2008
4:18 pm

Gratifying to note.   CMN Dr. Chandra Mohan Nautiyal MSc (UOR/IIT-R); PhD (PRL/ GU); FGS (I); F-NCSTC-NW; Member Executive, Vigyan Parishad   ...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
cmnautiyal
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Jun 24, 2008
1:23 pm

First of all -- there is NO malicious software getting embedded with Linux. And there is a manner in which things work out. 1. Linux Kernel 2. Desktop...
swapnil BHARTIYA
swapnil.bhar...
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Jun 22, 2008
3:23 am
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