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Reply | Forward Message #815 of 3488 |
Re: [indiansciencefiction] Re: Surrealism and Science Fiction!

Dear Swapnil
Thank you for comments on my story. I read your points. Points 1 & 3 are related to present computer systems. Where H/W and S/W are two different parts mutually associated to perform computing. But computation procedure of human brain is totally different, where H/W (neuron-combinations) are created by S/W (Thoughts) and vice versa. In that way imagination takes place. So I hypothesize possibility of imagination in computers in the same way. My story does not use surrealism but it gives possibility of imaginations finally will result surrealism in computers.
Regards
Zeashan Zaidi


"swapnil.bhartiya" <arnieswap@...> wrote:
Dear Zeeshan,

The story was good in its own right. However, I could not find any
connection with surrealism. No.

1. There are some technical glitches as well, no hardware is now in
isolation, embedded systems are an example of that. And what else is
BIOS but embedded software in a chip. A chip cannot work if there is
no softeare embedded. OS to instruct a hardare needs Kernel -- a layer
of programe, code to establish connection between user and the
hardware. Thus the point that software and hardware are isolated is
not correct.

2. Quantum computing that breaks the barrier of 1, 0 is not mentioned
properly.

3. Every processor goes through strainous process of testing and
validation at every stage, the source of each programme is monitored
and executed to see if the chip behaves in particular manner. I have
been to Intel's validation lad in Bangalore and it takes more than 2
years to validate a chip. So, I disagree that any chip would simple go
to production.

4. Thus, its not hitting the nail in the head. And No connection with
Surrealism whatsoever.

Swapnil


--- In indiansciencefiction@yahoogroups.co.in, zeashan zaidi
<zeashanzaidi@...> wrote:
>
> In the context of surrealism in robots/computers, I am presenting a
sci-fi `Computer Ki Maut' where it is shown a possibility of
imagination in computers. This story had been published in Vigyan
Pragati in 1998.
>
> Zeashan Zaidi
>
>
> "swapnil.bhartiya" <arnieswap@...> wrote:
> I agree with everything Tiwari ji said except that Robots
can't use
> surrealism. How could we be so sure? Robots can be for more advanced
> and may have their own form of surrealism. Surrealism is only obscure
> thought, imagination and interpretation of any being who is capable of
> thinking and imagining. Thus, robots could also have their own
suurealism.
>
> On question raised by Nautiyal ji.
>
> 1. Yes our story is SF -- elements that build the story are futuristic
> and science is integral element of ths story.
> 2. My basic understanding is: 'remove science from a story and if the
> story still sustains, its not science fiction. A SF story should
> collapse as soon as element of science is removed!'
> 3. Depends.
> 4 I cant understand the last point, please elaborate. " If Mays
> needs supplementing, how about doing it? We still have more than a
> month let for it to be finalised."
>
> Swapnil
>
> the e, as the--- In indiansciencefiction@yahoogroups.co.in, CHANDRA
> MOHAN NAUTIYAL <cmnautiyal@> wrote:
> >
> > While some
>
>
> Visit Your Group
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Thu Sep 6, 2007 5:35 am

zeashanzaidi
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Message #815 of 3488 |
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Dear Zeeshan, The story was good in its own right. However, I could not find any connection with surrealism. No. 1. There are some technical glitches as well,...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 5, 2007
6:05 pm

Dear Swapnil Thank you for comments on my story. I read your points. Points 1 & 3 are related to present computer systems. Where H/W and S/W are two different...
zeashan zaidi
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Sep 6, 2007
5:35 am

Vishwa Mohan Tiwari The SF story is interesting and good. hOWEVER THE CLAIM THAT THE COMPUTERS HAD THE CAPABILITY TO USE IMAGINATION IS NOT VALID. The plot of...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 5, 2007
6:14 pm

Surrealism is just associated with level of imagination power of brain. Those brains having much power in this sense have more sentiments also. And suicide is...
zeashan zaidi
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Sep 6, 2007
5:41 am

Vishwa Mohan Tiwari Surrealism is much more than imagination!! Computers suicide in the story was a direct result of instructions to that effect, aand not due...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 6, 2007
8:03 am

Still, I am not convinced that computers will commmit "suiside" in that manner that chips will start to melt. And my previous objections remain that this could...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 6, 2007
9:05 am

If computer has power of imagination, as well as sentiments. Then an external cause may be depressed it to commit suicide. Obviously in case of computers this...
zeashan zaidi
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Sep 7, 2007
11:08 am

Yes Zeashaan if there remains no difference in man and robot ,robots may very well adopt behavioural aberrations like suicide etc and also may indulge in...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 7, 2007
12:17 pm

Actually the feelings of depression, sorrow or joy are also a result of programming. We are all programmed. One difference from computers at present is that...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 7, 2007
1:33 pm

You know very well that many organic systems possess homeostatic feedback mechanisms and maintain the required balance of the system...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 7, 2007
2:59 pm

The subject is becoming more and more interesting. I didnt want to enter into it for it is a deep and complex subject. We are basically free to programme our...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 7, 2007
5:33 pm

Are we programmed ? ! I would suggest that we are given a set of hardware and a structure for programming. But we are not programmed in a broad sense. In a...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 7, 2007
5:18 pm

I wold say yes, we are being programmed. I wrote in the previous mail: "human beings (or advanced animals) are being reprogrammed continuously with...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 8, 2007
10:48 am

Actually I was expecting that there would be no discussion over whether humans/all living being are programmed or not. That is a fact and all of us know that....
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 8, 2007
11:31 am

The issue has come up because of comparison with robots. If both are programmed, where are the differences? Can robots feel depressed, joyed or sad? Can...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 8, 2007
2:10 pm

Depends on the level of programming. While organic world is on the highest level of programming, mechanical world is in infant stage. Once they reach that...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 8, 2007
3:50 pm

Dr. Nautial jee How much freedom would you give to a robot? I guess not more than you give to a loyal and intelligent subordinate. Here lies the difference...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 9, 2007
6:46 am

Tiwari Ji, Nautiyal Ji would answer that question in his own manner, I would just like to add, when the machines become 'intelligent' and instead of depending...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 9, 2007
7:47 am

Thanks to VMT for his intellectually satiating input.What I decipher from the contents VMT and CMN both so eloquently submitted , we are all programmed...
arvind mishra
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Sep 9, 2007
1:00 pm

... As I said, we are programmed at two levels: bilogically and psychologically. I already discussed that in my post, I guess you did not read that. You seemed...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 9, 2007
1:57 pm

Can we make a community on 'ORKUT' for such interesting discussions? Zeashan Zaidi ... As I said, we are programmed at two levels: bilogically and ...
zeashan zaidi
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Sep 9, 2007
4:08 pm

Why ORKUT Zeashan,is this forum boring you ? Then why you want to go chirkut errr orkut way! zeashan zaidi <zeashanzaidi@...> wrote: Can we make a...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 9, 2007
4:46 pm

Though ORKUT is converted into 'chirkut' due to its freedom of use by any guy. But it has two advanteges. 1. We can see all posts on a said topic in the...
zeashan zaidi
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Sep 10, 2007
9:43 am

Zeashan jee's suggestion is not to be misunderstood. He probably meant that the discussion may be of interest to much wider audience. Ours is a limited, by-...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 12, 2007
1:18 pm

zeashan zaidi <zeashanzaidi@...> wrote: Can we make a community on 'ORKUT' for such interesting discussions? Zeashan Zaidi ... As I said, we are...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 9, 2007
9:57 pm

arvind mishra <drarvind3@...> wrote: Friends,you are solicited to put your surrealistic discussions under this new topic. ...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 9, 2007
8:34 pm

Dr Arvind jee You have said "I have developed an understanding to believe that we are programmed not since our childhood but even before to it ,even...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 10, 2007
7:13 am

Swapnil jee Should humans let robots be free to do what they desire to do? This assumes that their desires are also not being controlled by any code of conduct...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 10, 2007
6:46 am

Res Tiwari Ji, Time and again, it has been noticed that life breaks all barriers. Intelligent beings/robots cannot be eternally controlled by some code of ...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 10, 2007
11:12 am

I did not say that computers can't be small. I only said they are big at present. I said that computers with capability equal to humans will be big TILL...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 10, 2007
2:47 pm
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