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Reply | Forward Message #819 of 3485 |
RE: [indiansciencefiction] Re: Surrealism and Science Fiction!


Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
Surrealism is much more than imagination!!
Computers suicide in the story was a direct result of instructions to that
effect, aand not due to pain, misery , sorrow or depression etc, as I understood
from the story.
VMT
________________________________> To: indiansciencefiction@...>
From: zeashanzaidi@...> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 22:41:25 -0700> Subject: RE:
[indiansciencefiction] Re: Surrealism and Science Fiction!>> Surrealism is just
associated with level of imagination power of brain. Those brains having much
power in this sense have more sentiments also. And suicide is obviously related
to boom of sentiments.> Zeashan Zaidi> Vishwa Mohan Tiwari wrote:> Vishwa Mohan
Tiwari> The SF story is interesting and good. hOWEVER THE CLAIM THAT THE
COMPUTERS HAD THE CAPABILITY TO USE IMAGINATION IS NOT VALID. The plot of the
story does not need the computers to use imagination, infact they blindly
followed the instruction to commit suicide.> VMT>
________________________________> To: indiansciencefiction@...>
From: zeashanzaidi@...> Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 10:15:35 -0700> Subject: Re:
[indiansciencefiction] Re: Surrealism and Science Fiction!>> In the context of
surrealism in robots/computers, I am presenting a sci-fi ‘Computer Ki Maut’
where it is shown a possibility of imagination in computers. This story had been
published in Vigyan Pragati in 1998.> Zeashan Zaidi> "swapnil.bhartiya" wrote:>
I agree with everything Tiwari ji said except that Robots can't use> surrealism.
How could we be so sure? Robots can be for more advanced> and may have their own
form of surrealism. Surrealism is only obscure> thought, imagination and
interpretation of any being who is capable of> thinking and imagining. Thus,
robots could also have their own suurealism.> On question raised by Nautiyal
ji.> 1. Yes our story is SF -- elements that build the story are futuristic> and
science is integral element of ths story.> 2. My basic understanding is: 'remove
science from a story and if the> story still sustains, its not science fiction.
A SF story should> collapse as soon as element of science is removed!'> 3.
Depends.> 4 I cant understand the last point, please elaborate. " If Mays> needs
supplementing, how about doing it? We still have more than a> month let for it
to be finalised."> Swapnil> the e, as the--- In
indiansciencefiction@..., CHANDRA> MOHAN NAUTIYAL wrote:>>>> While
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Thu Sep 6, 2007 8:02 am

onevishwa
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Message #819 of 3485 |
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Surrealism is just associated with level of imagination power of brain. Those brains having much power in this sense have more sentiments also. And suicide is...
zeashan zaidi
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Sep 6, 2007
5:41 am

Vishwa Mohan Tiwari Surrealism is much more than imagination!! Computers suicide in the story was a direct result of instructions to that effect, aand not due...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 6, 2007
8:03 am

Still, I am not convinced that computers will commmit "suiside" in that manner that chips will start to melt. And my previous objections remain that this could...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 6, 2007
9:05 am

If computer has power of imagination, as well as sentiments. Then an external cause may be depressed it to commit suicide. Obviously in case of computers this...
zeashan zaidi
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Sep 7, 2007
11:08 am

Yes Zeashaan if there remains no difference in man and robot ,robots may very well adopt behavioural aberrations like suicide etc and also may indulge in...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 7, 2007
12:17 pm

Actually the feelings of depression, sorrow or joy are also a result of programming. We are all programmed. One difference from computers at present is that...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 7, 2007
1:33 pm

You know very well that many organic systems possess homeostatic feedback mechanisms and maintain the required balance of the system...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 7, 2007
2:59 pm

The subject is becoming more and more interesting. I didnt want to enter into it for it is a deep and complex subject. We are basically free to programme our...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 7, 2007
5:33 pm

Are we programmed ? ! I would suggest that we are given a set of hardware and a structure for programming. But we are not programmed in a broad sense. In a...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 7, 2007
5:18 pm

I wold say yes, we are being programmed. I wrote in the previous mail: "human beings (or advanced animals) are being reprogrammed continuously with...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 8, 2007
10:48 am

Actually I was expecting that there would be no discussion over whether humans/all living being are programmed or not. That is a fact and all of us know that....
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 8, 2007
11:31 am

The issue has come up because of comparison with robots. If both are programmed, where are the differences? Can robots feel depressed, joyed or sad? Can...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 8, 2007
2:10 pm

Depends on the level of programming. While organic world is on the highest level of programming, mechanical world is in infant stage. Once they reach that...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 8, 2007
3:50 pm

Dr. Nautial jee How much freedom would you give to a robot? I guess not more than you give to a loyal and intelligent subordinate. Here lies the difference...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 9, 2007
6:46 am

Tiwari Ji, Nautiyal Ji would answer that question in his own manner, I would just like to add, when the machines become 'intelligent' and instead of depending...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 9, 2007
7:47 am

Thanks to VMT for his intellectually satiating input.What I decipher from the contents VMT and CMN both so eloquently submitted , we are all programmed...
arvind mishra
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Sep 9, 2007
1:00 pm

... As I said, we are programmed at two levels: bilogically and psychologically. I already discussed that in my post, I guess you did not read that. You seemed...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 9, 2007
1:57 pm

Can we make a community on 'ORKUT' for such interesting discussions? Zeashan Zaidi ... As I said, we are programmed at two levels: bilogically and ...
zeashan zaidi
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Sep 9, 2007
4:08 pm

Why ORKUT Zeashan,is this forum boring you ? Then why you want to go chirkut errr orkut way! zeashan zaidi <zeashanzaidi@...> wrote: Can we make a...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 9, 2007
4:46 pm

Though ORKUT is converted into 'chirkut' due to its freedom of use by any guy. But it has two advanteges. 1. We can see all posts on a said topic in the...
zeashan zaidi
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Sep 10, 2007
9:43 am

Zeashan jee's suggestion is not to be misunderstood. He probably meant that the discussion may be of interest to much wider audience. Ours is a limited, by-...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 12, 2007
1:18 pm

zeashan zaidi <zeashanzaidi@...> wrote: Can we make a community on 'ORKUT' for such interesting discussions? Zeashan Zaidi ... As I said, we are...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 9, 2007
9:57 pm

arvind mishra <drarvind3@...> wrote: Friends,you are solicited to put your surrealistic discussions under this new topic. ...
Arvind Mishra
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Sep 9, 2007
8:34 pm

Dr Arvind jee You have said "I have developed an understanding to believe that we are programmed not since our childhood but even before to it ,even...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 10, 2007
7:13 am

Swapnil jee Should humans let robots be free to do what they desire to do? This assumes that their desires are also not being controlled by any code of conduct...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 10, 2007
6:46 am

Res Tiwari Ji, Time and again, it has been noticed that life breaks all barriers. Intelligent beings/robots cannot be eternally controlled by some code of ...
swapnil.bhartiya
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Sep 10, 2007
11:12 am

I did not say that computers can't be small. I only said they are big at present. I said that computers with capability equal to humans will be big TILL...
CHANDRA MOHAN NAUTIYAL
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Sep 10, 2007
2:47 pm

Swapnil jee, I never said that 'humans will always be smarter than robots, and therefore I never asked you to agree. Indeed I also foresee that robots will...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 11, 2007
4:54 pm

Res Tiwari Ji, In that case I would apologize. Could you please elaborate electromechanical. Coz I have little knowledge about that. Pleasssssssssssssssssss....
swapnil BHARTIYA
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Sep 11, 2007
5:11 pm

Dear Swapnil, What I meant by electromechanical robots was the traditional robots being made with mechanical, electrical and electronic devices, certainly not...
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
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Sep 13, 2007
4:45 pm
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