Don't be alarmed when it looks like we have 2 moons in August! Never again
in your lifetime will the Red Planet be so spectacular! This month and next
month the Earth is catching up with Mars, an encounter that will culminate
in the closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The
next time Mars may come this close is in 2287.

Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit,
astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth
in the last 5,000 years but it may be as long as 60,000 years. The
encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
34,649,589 miles and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the
night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc
seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large as
the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning
of August, Mars will rise in the east at 10pm and reach its azimuth at
about 3am By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will
rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30am. That's
pretty convenient when it comes to seeing something that no human has seen
in recorded history. So mark your calendar at the beginning of August to
see Mars grows progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month.
Share with your children and grandchildren. No one alive today will ever
see this again.


Shabab K Husain.
IndMind Solutions




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Arvind is an old and dear friend.

GALAXICINDIAN <galaxicindian@...> wrote:

Sanjay wrote:Amarinder throws Sonia's policy to the winds
RAJESH RAMACHANDRAN

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SUNDAY, JULY 27, 2003 07:18:30 PM ]

NEW DELHI: Sonia Gandhi's word is supposed to be law when it comes
to Congress's policies and politics. But she has been proven wrong
by Punjab Chief Minister Amarinder Singh.



Or rather the Congress double-speak on privatisation has been
exposed by Amarinder's initiative.



The party president had asserted in the Mt Abu conclave of Congress
CMs that her party was opposed to the sale of profit-making PSUs. In
the November 9 press conference at the hill station, she was
specifically asked about Punjab government's plans to sell the
profit-making Punjab Tractors Ltd.



Sonia flatly denied any such plan and replied: "Either you or I have
to check out with the Punjab chief minister again."



Now it seems she has to check out either her policies or their
compliance by her CMs.



The Punjab government that holds the majority stake in PTL, through
the Punjab Industries Development Corporation, had on Friday
approved the sale of PTL. The Commonwealth Development Corporation,
a company wholly owned by the UK government has bought 23.49 per
cent stake held by PSIDC, wholly owned by the Punjab government.



Congress leaders Ambika Soni and Jaipal Reddy who were present on
the dias while Sonia made her famous statement about PTL and the
AICC general secretary in charge of Punjab, Mohsina Kidwai, were not
available for comment on the sale of PTL.



"We were told that the company was not doing well and that it would
have made losses had it not been privatised," said a Congress
Working Committee member. While another passed the buck to the chief
minister.



But the fact remains that PTL is the second largest tractor
manufacturer in the country after Mahindra and Mahindra, and it had
posted a net profit of Rs 100 crore last year. Even with a crisis in
the agri-sector forcing the tractor sales to fall by 16.6 per cent
in the entire industry, the PTL sales fell only by 3.1 per cent.



And of course, the UK government has decided to put in money where
the Punjab government has no hopes.



But more than the details of the sale or the company, it seems the
Congress has never been serious about its Bangalore economic
resolution which took a stand against privatisation of profit-making
PSUs. At Mount Abu, a few minutes before Gandhi's statement,
Amarinder Singh had claimed that he was not aware of the Bangalore
resolution.



In fact, even on the controversial sale of oil PSUs, the Congress
had let the NDA government off the hook by merely seeking the
Attorney General's opinion, when the Solicitor General had already
declared that the parliament could be by-passed for the sale of HPCL
and BPCL.




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
nationalistcongressparty-unsubscribe@...



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Sanjay...

Do U know ARVIND SHROTRIA......

JUST CURIOUS TO KNOW THIS.....

AS I HEARD YOUR NAME QUITE A FEW TIMES..







aSHOK




Ashok Sharma


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sanjay <kozak_vodka@...> wrote:Amarinder throws Sonia's policy to the
winds
RAJESH RAMACHANDRAN

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SUNDAY, JULY 27, 2003 07:18:30 PM ]

NEW DELHI: Sonia Gandhi's word is supposed to be law when it comes
to Congress's policies and politics. But she has been proven wrong
by Punjab Chief Minister Amarinder Singh.



Or rather the Congress double-speak on privatisation has been
exposed by Amarinder's initiative.



The party president had asserted in the Mt Abu conclave of Congress
CMs that her party was opposed to the sale of profit-making PSUs. In
the November 9 press conference at the hill station, she was
specifically asked about Punjab government's plans to sell the
profit-making Punjab Tractors Ltd.



Sonia flatly denied any such plan and replied: "Either you or I have
to check out with the Punjab chief minister again."



Now it seems she has to check out either her policies or their
compliance by her CMs.



The Punjab government that holds the majority stake in PTL, through
the Punjab Industries Development Corporation, had on Friday
approved the sale of PTL. The Commonwealth Development Corporation,
a company wholly owned by the UK government has bought 23.49 per
cent stake held by PSIDC, wholly owned by the Punjab government.



Congress leaders Ambika Soni and Jaipal Reddy who were present on
the dias while Sonia made her famous statement about PTL and the
AICC general secretary in charge of Punjab, Mohsina Kidwai, were not
available for comment on the sale of PTL.



"We were told that the company was not doing well and that it would
have made losses had it not been privatised," said a Congress
Working Committee member. While another passed the buck to the chief
minister.



But the fact remains that PTL is the second largest tractor
manufacturer in the country after Mahindra and Mahindra, and it had
posted a net profit of Rs 100 crore last year. Even with a crisis in
the agri-sector forcing the tractor sales to fall by 16.6 per cent
in the entire industry, the PTL sales fell only by 3.1 per cent.



And of course, the UK government has decided to put in money where
the Punjab government has no hopes.



But more than the details of the sale or the company, it seems the
Congress has never been serious about its Bangalore economic
resolution which took a stand against privatisation of profit-making
PSUs. At Mount Abu, a few minutes before Gandhi's statement,
Amarinder Singh had claimed that he was not aware of the Bangalore
resolution.



In fact, even on the controversial sale of oil PSUs, the Congress
had let the NDA government off the hook by merely seeking the
Attorney General's opinion, when the Solicitor General had already
declared that the parliament could be by-passed for the sale of HPCL
and BPCL.




To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
nationalistcongressparty-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


Sanjay...

Do  U  know   ARVIND SHROTRIA......

JUST  CURIOUS   TO  KNOW  THIS.....

AS  I HEARD  YOUR  NAME  QUITE  A  FEW  TIMES..







aSHOK




Ashok Sharma


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Amarinder throws Sonia's policy to the winds
RAJESH RAMACHANDRAN

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SUNDAY, JULY 27, 2003 07:18:30 PM ]

NEW DELHI: Sonia Gandhi's word is supposed to be law when it comes
to Congress's policies and politics. But she has been proven wrong
by Punjab Chief Minister Amarinder Singh.



Or rather the Congress double-speak on privatisation has been
exposed by Amarinder's initiative.



The party president had asserted in the Mt Abu conclave of Congress
CMs that her party was opposed to the sale of profit-making PSUs. In
the November 9 press conference at the hill station, she was
specifically asked about Punjab government's plans to sell the
profit-making Punjab Tractors Ltd.



Sonia flatly denied any such plan and replied: "Either you or I have
to check out with the Punjab chief minister again."



Now it seems she has to check out either her policies or their
compliance by her CMs.



The Punjab government that holds the majority stake in PTL, through
the Punjab Industries Development Corporation, had on Friday
approved the sale of PTL. The Commonwealth Development Corporation,
a company wholly owned by the UK government has bought 23.49 per
cent stake held by PSIDC, wholly owned by the Punjab government.



Congress leaders Ambika Soni and Jaipal Reddy who were present on
the dias while Sonia made her famous statement about PTL and the
AICC general secretary in charge of Punjab, Mohsina Kidwai, were not
available for comment on the sale of PTL.



"We were told that the company was not doing well and that it would
have made losses had it not been privatised," said a Congress
Working Committee member. While another passed the buck to the chief
minister.



But the fact remains that PTL is the second largest tractor
manufacturer in the country after Mahindra and Mahindra, and it had
posted a net profit of Rs 100 crore last year. Even with a crisis in
the agri-sector forcing the tractor sales to fall by 16.6 per cent
in the entire industry, the PTL sales fell only by 3.1 per cent.



And of course, the UK government has decided to put in money where
the Punjab government has no hopes.



But more than the details of the sale or the company, it seems the
Congress has never been serious about its Bangalore economic
resolution which took a stand against privatisation of profit-making
PSUs. At Mount Abu, a few minutes before Gandhi's statement,
Amarinder Singh had claimed that he was not aware of the Bangalore
resolution.



In fact, even on the controversial sale of oil PSUs, the Congress
had let the NDA government off the hook by merely seeking the
Attorney General's opinion, when the Solicitor General had already
declared that the parliament could be by-passed for the sale of HPCL
and BPCL.

Kochi, July 25: Nationalist Congress Party national general
secretary and former speaker, P A Sangma, would inaugurate party's
state leadership camp meeting today.

According to a party release, the two-day camp, to be presided over
by state president P Cyriac John would chalk out the party's future
agitation programmes against the "anti-people" policies pursued by
the Central and state government.

T P Peethambaran Master, NCP national general secretary, would
present the national political resolution on the inaugural day and
working committee member A C Shanmughadas, MLA, the state political
resolution on July 26. A K Saseendran, state vice-president would
present the party's future plans, it said.

Party's executive committee members, office-bearers and district
committee office-bearers would attend the camp.

BharatKumar S Bhandary(Bk)

Hello Husain;

I totally and completely agree with your thoughts, especially your
last statement, "And a leader can be chosen,who is Indian,born Indian
and can lead the nation."

Sanjay.




-- In nationalistcongressparty@..., Shabab Husain
<v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> Dear Sanjay,
> I fully agree with you that after sacrificing for our,I repeat OUR
nation, nobody is going to hand over to any foreigners.But I think
you dint got the point of what I wanted to say.I would like to repeat
again and hope that you will get it this time.
> What I want to say is that the time is not to fight for who is
going to lead the Nation,but much more inportant is that those who
are dividing the nation with divide and rule must not be allowed to
lead,not even let such persons to enter parliament.We have leaders,
who are born Indian, and are secular minded, and most importantly,
harsh on communal parties.But for that, elections should be fought
with this parties together so that secular votes are not divided.And
a leader can be chosen,who is Indian,born Indian and can lead the
nation.
> S.Husain.
>
>
> Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> Dear Mr. Husain,
>
> Frankly, I believe that you are mixing up two completely seperate
> issues. The BJP being anti- Indian is one issue.I completely agree
> with you on that issue; that the BJP should be thrown out of power
> and their attempts to divide the nation should be halted.
>
> Sonia Gandhi is a second issue. My family sacrificed three of my
> elders to fight the British. They laid their lives so you and I can
> be a part of the Nation called INDEPENDENT INDIA. I do not know
about
> you, but I will not allow an Incompetant and Worthless Italian be
the
> Prime Minister of MY, repeat MY country.
>
> Sardar Sanjay Matkar
>
>
>
> --- In nationalistcongressparty@..., Shabab Husain
> <v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> > Dear Sanjay,
> > You say that this government gave two things.......1] Pride as a
> Nation, What pride do we have left after the riots in Gujarat and
> continous terrorist attacks in Kashmir.2] Infotech- It was rajiv
> Gandhi who bought infotech in India,had he been alive???
> > The issue of SONIA is baseless.What if her sons are chosen as
> leaders and to lead India,would u or all those who oppose Sonia
> accept them ad they are born Indian.If yes, than if a child can be
> accepted....why not mother????
> > Think over it brother...lets join hands against those who are
bent
> upon dividing our Nation.Everyone fought for
> freedom,Hindu,Muslim,Sikh,Dalits,all the religions in our great
> country....even some English people supported India's struggle for
> freedom.
> > The policy of BJP is simple-DIVIDE and Rule.
> >
> >
> > Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> > Dear Mr Husain;
> >
> > I am happy that you have commented upon this issue. The main
> purpose
> > of this group is to generate a debate about who we are as a
Nation
> > and what is the defination of an "Indian" if I may use that word
> > solely to define our nationalism.
> >
> > Sonia Gandhi's heritage is NOT a minor issue. Foreign born
persons
> > have been associated with India in the past, Annie Beasant being
a
> > prime example. But, while Annie Beasant honorably discharged her
> > duties as President of the then Indian National Congress, she
never
> > tried to take over India.
> >
> > Sonia Gandhi has no right moral, legal or otherwise to try to
> attain
> > a position for which she has zero qualifications. If widow-hood
was
> > an easy passport to jobs, then the Widow of every Indian man who
> has
> > died in Government service should be given that man's job. Lets
> have
> > all the Widows of our brave Jawans and police officers start
> filling
> > those positions and taking over that jobs. I know that you will
> laugh
> > at this suggestion, because both you and I know that this is a
> > ludicrous idea. The Widows are not trained to do the jobs their
> > husbands did. Identically, Sonia Gandhi has no, repeat NO
> > qualifications to be the Prime Minister of India. Furthermore,
and
> > more important is the fact that India is not the private kindgom
of
> > the Gandhi family. The Gandhi family has been out of power for
the
> > past five years and the whole Nation of India has changed. While
I
> am
> > against the BJP for their religious proscecution of minorities
and
> > their hateful behavious of segregation of Indian people; we have
to
> > also accept the fact the their government did bring two things
onto
> > the forefront; pride as a Nation and putting India on the
worldmap
> as
> > the primary Info tech country.
> >
> > Yes, we can be one People and One Nation. We can have a Nation
that
> > can be defined as " Of the People, by the People and For the
> People"
> > and for this we do not need a unqualified and illitrate Italian
> > hustler.
> >
> > Sardar Sanjay Matkar.
> >
> > --- In nationalistcongressparty@..., Shabab Husain
> > <v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> > > I dont know but why the Sonia issue, that she was not born in
> India
> > is so important.What is important is that she had married an
Indian
> > and so is she now an Indian Bahu.What is important is that all
the
> > secular parties need to get together on one front to fight
against
> > those communal parties who are all hell bent on dividing the
> counytry
> > on basis of religion.The issue of who will be the next Prime
> Minister
> > can be sorted out with leaders of all the secular parties
choosing
> a
> > leader who is Indian by birth and Secular and who would be
> acceptable
> > to all.There is no dearth of such
leaders.Pawar,Mulayam,Laloo,Jyoti
> > Basu.....the list is too long.But a solution is possible.So lets
> > forget abt minor issues and concentrate more on issues which are
> > important for the Nation.
> > > Hope the message reaches the heart.
> > > S.Husain.
> > >
> > > Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> > > Where was Sonia when India was at war? And after Mrs Gandhi
lost
> in
> > > 1977?
> > >
> > >
> > > It was interesting to read Professor Ashutosh Varshney's
thoughts
> > on
> > > the question whether Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is Indian. And it
was
> > > amusing to note how ill-informed he is about citizenship laws,
as
> > > well as electoral laws, of not only India but also the United
> > States
> > > of America. Above all, it was surprising that an associate
> > professor
> > > at Columbia University should double up as a propagandist, that
> too
> > > of such low calibre.
> > >
> > > Whether or not Sonia Gandhi nee Maino should be entrusted with
> the
> > > responsibility of heading the government of India has nothing
to
> do
> > > with "secular nationalism" or "Hindu nationalism." It has
nothing
> > to
> > > do with Veer Savarkar's definition of a Hindu, which Professor
> > > Varshney has quoted. It has nothing to do with India's alleged
> > > pluralist, multi-ethnic identity. It has nothing to do with the
> > fact
> > > that she owes allegiance to the Vatican -- an allegiance that
> > > transcends her claimed allegiance to India. It has nothing to
do
> > > with the patriotism of indigenous Indians (especially Sikhs and
> > > Bengali Hindus) which Professor Varshney has questioned.
> > >
> > > It has everything to do with the fact that Sonia Gandhi nee
Maino
> > > was born an Italian and that there exists no public knowledge,
> > leave
> > > alone evidence, of the fact that she has voluntarily repudiated
> her
> > > Italian citizenship. I shall come to this point later. First,
the
> > > point about the ethics of entrusting her with the
responsibility
> of
> > > heading the Government of India.
> > >
> > > Addressing a rally during the general election of 1998, Sonia
> > Gandhi
> > > nee Maino had said, "I am an Indian till my last breath." A
noble
> > > thought, indeed. But the mere expression of that thought does
not
> > > erase uncomfortable facts which must now necessarily be
> resurrected
> > > because she is no longer a private person beyond public
scrutiny.
> > > The uncomfortable questions that arise from these facts need to
> be
> > > dealt with by the President of the Republic of India before he
> > > decides whether or not she can be entrusted with India's most
> > > coveted public office.
> > >
> > > Sonia Gandhi nee Maino felt the need to proclaim that she is an
> > > Indian till her last breath only after she entered the
political
> > > arena and needed to establish her credentials with the
unwashed,
> > but
> > > fiercely patriotic, masses of middle India. What she did not
tell
> > > them was that she had retained her Italian passport and Italian
> > > citizenship, not feeling the need to accept Indian citizenship,
> > till
> > > 1984.
> > >
> > > Rajiv Gandhi married Sonia Maino in 1968. Under India's
> citizenship
> > > laws (not framed by Hindu communalists but Congress secularists
> in
> > > the 1950s), she was entitled to seek Indian citizenship five
> years
> > > after her marriage, that is in 1974. But she chose not to
> register
> > > as an Indian citizen for the next 10 years. That could not have
> > been
> > > a casual oversight. Indeed, two incidents during these 10 years
> > > suggest that it was a considered decision not to repudiate her
> > > Italian citizenship.
> > >
> > > Let us then go back to those 10 years. During the India-
Pakistan
> > war
> > > of 1971 (coinciding with the liberation struggle of
Bangladesh),
> > > under emergency provisions, the leave applications of all
Indian
> > > Airlines pilots were cancelled so that they could be used for
> > > providing logistical support. The only exception was Rajiv
> Gandhi,
> > a
> > > full-time pilot with Indian Airlines. Sonia Gandhi nee Maino,
who
> > > now claims that she is an Indian till her last breath, flew off
> to
> > > Italy with Rajiv Gandhi and their two children.
> > >
> > > While indigenous Indians serving as pilots with Indian Airlines
> > > stood by to serve their motherland, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino and
> > > family remained in the more congenial surroundings of Italy
> during
> > > the entire duration of the war, returning only after General
> Niazi
> > > had signed the surrender papers.
> > >
> > > The other incident, once again resurrected from those 10 years.
> > > After news came in that the Congress and Indira Gandhi had been
> > > defeated in 1977, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino packed an overnighter
> and,
> > > with husband and children in tow, took refuge in the Italian
> > embassy
> > > in New Delhi's Chanakyapuri. It took the combined efforts of
> Indira
> > > Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi and the other 'bahu' of the household,
> Maneka
> > > Gandhi nee Anand, to convince her to return to the Gandhi home.
> > >
> > > Therefore, the record shows that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino who now
> > > aspires to be the prime minister of India chose not to be an
> Indian
> > > till it was pointed out that it would be awkward for Rajiv
> Gandhi,
> > > as prime minister, to have an Italian spouse. In other words,
she
> > > has been a citizen of India for a mere 15 years -- the exact
date
> > of
> > > her conversion from Italian to Indian has never been disclosed
to
> > > the people of India whom she now wants to rule. The record also
> > > shows that she fled from India in wartime. The record also
shows
> > > that she was perfectly eager to desert her mother-in-law,
indeed
> > > the 'dynasty' that she now flaunts as her asset, in her hour of
> > > need.
> > >
> > > Now, the point about her citizenship and whether or not that
> > > entitles her to the prime minister of India's office. Seen from
a
> > > narrow, legal perspective, there is nothing that prevents Sonia
> > > Gandhi nee Maino from assuming charge as prime minister of
India.
> > > The Constitution of India, unlike the constitutions of many
> Western
> > > and Asian countries, puts no such bar on her. Unlike the USA,
> > > Finland, Germany, Thailand or Singapore, India does not insist
> that
> > > the aspirant for the top job should be a natural born citizen.
> > >
> > > For a moment, let us assume that instead of Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia
> > > Maino had married an American. She could not have aspired for,
> > > forget her staking claim to, the American presidency. Article
II,
> > > Section 1(5) of the American constitution would have debarred
her
> > > from that office. It says, 'No person, except a natural born
> > > citizen, or a citizen of the USA at the time of the adoption of
> > this
> > > Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President…'
> > >
> > > No such provision exists in the Constitution of India -- not
> > because
> > > it was framed by "secular nationalists" but because no member
of
> > the
> > > Constituent Assembly could have ever imagined that 50 years
after
> > > Independence, a foreigner would be in the race for the prime
> > > minister's job. If they had, they would have surely
incorporated
> > > necessary safeguards. Since they did not do so, Sonia Gandhi
nee
> > > Maino is perfectly eligible to apply for, and secure, the prime
> > > minister of India's job.
> > >
> > > But, should the President of India merely go by the law book
and
> > not
> > > take note of implications that could come to affect the very
> > > functioning of the prime minister's office?
> > >
> > > Under the Indian Citizenship Act, there are three categories of
> > > Indian citizens -- citizens by birth, citizens by registration
> and
> > > citizens by naturalisation. I am an Indian citizen, so is Sonia
> > > Gandhi nee Maino. But I am an Indian citizen by birth, which
> means
> > > nobody can deprive me of my citizenship. On the other hand,
Sonia
> > > Gandhi nee Maino is a citizen by registration, which means that
> > > under Indian laws, her citizenship, like that of those who are
> > > citizens by naturalisation, can be taken away and she can be
> > > deported.
> > >
> > > Sonia Gandhi nee Maino might well claim that she is an Indian
> till
> > > her last breath, but that does not mitigate the conditions and
> > > restrictions governing her Indian citizenship. Her citizenship
by
> > > registration can be taken away under Section 10 of the
> Citizenship
> > > Act if the Government of India is satisfied that (a) the
> > > registration was obtained by means of fraud or concealment of
> > > material facts; (b) the registered citizen is disloyal or
> > > disaffected towards the Constitution of India; and, (c) the
> > > registered citizen raded or communicated with an enemy during
> war.
> > >
> > > What if, after assuming office, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is held
> > > guilty of any or all these charges by a court? Would it not
> tarnish
> > > the office she aspires for? And would she be comfortable in
> office,
> > > constantly concerned about the durability of her citizenship?
> > >
> > > There are other related issues that must impinge on the
President
> > of
> > > India's mind when he sits down to work out who is best placed
to
> > > take charge as the next prime minister. One of them is the fact
> > that
> > > under Italian law, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino continues to be an
> > Italian
> > > citizen. That is, provided she has not voluntarily repudiated
her
> > > citizenship by birth in writing. There is no public evidence to
> > > demonstrate that she has done so; therefore, it must be assumed
> > that
> > > she enjoys dual citizenship under Italian law (Indian law does
> not
> > > permit it) and that she continues to have access to an Italian
> > > passport. It may sound frivolous, but she is as much eligible
to
> > > become the prime minister of Italy as she is to become the
prime
> > > minister of India.
> > >
> > > A last point. The constitution of the USA demands that an
> applicant
> > > for American citizenship must be proficient in English, loyal
to
> > the
> > > USA and have basic knowledge of the constitution, the country's
> > > history and system of government.
> > >
> > > If only the Constitution of India had similar guidelines, the
> > > indigenous people of India would have been spared the ignominy
of
> > > being ruled by a person of foreign origin. For, Sonia Gandhi
nee
> > > Maino is proficient in no Indian language, including English;
her
> > > loyalty to India is all of 15 years old; her knowledge of the
> > > Constitution of India is non-existent; she would fail the most
> > > elementary history test; and, beyond the fact that she wants to
> be
> > > the prime minister of India, it is doubtful whether she has an
> > > inkling about the Government of India.
> > >
> > > After a new prime minister is sworn in, the Press Information
> > Bureau
> > > publishes a pamphlet providing the biographical details of the
> > > incumbent. Till now, nobody has ever looked at the pamphlet
> because
> > > all the individuals who have held the prime minister's office,
> have
> > > led a public life -- their minutest biographical details have
> been
> > > public knowledge for decades if not more.
> > >
> > > If Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is sworn in as prime minister of
India,
> > > for the first time the PIB's pamphlet will be eagerly read.
After
> > > all, India does not even know in which city was she born, what
> are
> > > the names of her parents, what school she went to, what
language
> > she
> > > is most comfortable with, how many elections she has won and
> lost,
> > > where all has she represented India, what is her favourite
dish,
> > who
> > > is her favourite Bollywood playback singer, who is her
favourite
> > > poet, etc. The usual trivia that makes up a sarkari prime
> > > ministerial bio-data.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > nationalistcongressparty-unsubscribe@...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
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> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
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> > nationalistcongressparty-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
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> >
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>
>
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My Dear Sahib And Sanjay


First of all I would like to thank you very much for actively participating in
the debate of this subject. At the same time our goal is very clear; we need a
good, clean India, we need to see what our forefathers have scarified for this
country to achieve freedom. I know my grand father was behind bars many times.
He was shot in the legs by bullets, and I remember going to Khilafat house in
Bombay to learn the speeches on national integration and staunch nationalist
movements



The leaders of those days had principals of scarifying for the Nation and mother
land. In those days leaders used to have a mass base, in today’s world our
nation political leader policy is, those who have the maximum muscles and money
power win and recollect it they way they spent it. I have practical knowledge of
all that and I have seen it with my eyes, but today we the educated class and
the people from many ways of life are ignoring the Nationals Policy of
upliftment.



I know that many people have been elected or nominated just because they have
cast labels or muscle or money power. You can say they have the time for
CHAMCHAGIRI, in fact the voice of educated classes is ignored. Every one is
trying to get votes either on JOPADPATTIWALA or Communal voting or playing old
card of the SC/ST/And Dalit





The country culture of “NATIONALISM” is experienced all over by the people of
India. We need the thought of nationalism, believe we need nationalism sprit,
like how Japanese have. After the havoc of Nagasaki they rebuild Japan, but we,
inspite of having everything, are very conservative.









But today we are under the influence of those



1.    Who can not run their home budget but make the budget of our nation.

2.    The people who rule us they can not even settle the family dispute in
their own family

3.    They don’t even know what is happening in the next door neighbor’s house
and they talk about the International politics

4.    They even don’t know how the Internet site and electronic media influences
the mass but they want to see their own faces on TV and in other media.

5.    They don’t know any thing about all of this; believe me the leaders do any
thing to come on electronic media even leave very important discussions to give
one minute interviews on TV

6.    This is our mistake; we the educated class don’t participate in working of
national politics



I personally congratulate both of you, that in many ways you have tried to
uplift nationalism, think positive and discuss issues.



Our forefathers and relatives scarified education, jobs, government services,
foreign trades, so that some day there will be a better tomorrow









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Dear Sanjay,
I fully agree with you that after sacrificing for our,I repeat OUR nation,
nobody is going to hand over to any foreigners.But I think you dint got the
point of what I wanted to say.I would like to repeat again and hope that you
will get it this time.
What I want to say is that the time is not to fight for who is going to lead the
Nation,but much more inportant is that those who are dividing the nation with
divide and rule must not be allowed to lead,not even let such persons to enter
parliament.We have leaders, who are born Indian, and are secular minded, and
most importantly, harsh on communal parties.But for that, elections should be
fought with this parties together so that secular votes are not divided.And a
leader can be chosen,who is Indian,born Indian and can lead the nation.
S.Husain.


Sanjay <kozak_vodka@...> wrote:
Dear Mr. Husain,

Frankly, I believe that you are mixing up two completely seperate
issues. The BJP being anti- Indian is one issue.I completely agree
with you on that issue; that the BJP should be thrown out of power
and their attempts to divide the nation should be halted.

Sonia Gandhi is a second issue. My family sacrificed three of my
elders to fight the British. They laid their lives so you and I can
be a part of the Nation called INDEPENDENT INDIA. I do not know about
you, but I will not allow an Incompetant and Worthless Italian be the
Prime Minister of MY, repeat MY country.

Sardar Sanjay Matkar



--- In nationalistcongressparty@..., Shabab Husain
<v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> Dear Sanjay,
> You say that this government gave two things.......1] Pride as a
Nation, What pride do we have left after the riots in Gujarat and
continous terrorist attacks in Kashmir.2] Infotech- It was rajiv
Gandhi who bought infotech in India,had he been alive???
> The issue of SONIA is baseless.What if her sons are chosen as
leaders and to lead India,would u or all those who oppose Sonia
accept them ad they are born Indian.If yes, than if a child can be
accepted....why not mother????
> Think over it brother...lets join hands against those who are bent
upon dividing our Nation.Everyone fought for
freedom,Hindu,Muslim,Sikh,Dalits,all the religions in our great
country....even some English people supported India's struggle for
freedom.
> The policy of BJP is simple-DIVIDE and Rule.
>
>
> Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> Dear Mr Husain;
>
> I am happy that you have commented upon this issue. The main
purpose
> of this group is to generate a debate about who we are as a Nation
> and what is the defination of an "Indian" if I may use that word
> solely to define our nationalism.
>
> Sonia Gandhi's heritage is NOT a minor issue. Foreign born persons
> have been associated with India in the past, Annie Beasant being a
> prime example. But, while Annie Beasant honorably discharged her
> duties as President of the then Indian National Congress, she never
> tried to take over India.
>
> Sonia Gandhi has no right moral, legal or otherwise to try to
attain
> a position for which she has zero qualifications. If widow-hood was
> an easy passport to jobs, then the Widow of every Indian man who
has
> died in Government service should be given that man's job. Lets
have
> all the Widows of our brave Jawans and police officers start
filling
> those positions and taking over that jobs. I know that you will
laugh
> at this suggestion, because both you and I know that this is a
> ludicrous idea. The Widows are not trained to do the jobs their
> husbands did. Identically, Sonia Gandhi has no, repeat NO
> qualifications to be the Prime Minister of India. Furthermore, and
> more important is the fact that India is not the private kindgom of
> the Gandhi family. The Gandhi family has been out of power for the
> past five years and the whole Nation of India has changed. While I
am
> against the BJP for their religious proscecution of minorities and
> their hateful behavious of segregation of Indian people; we have to
> also accept the fact the their government did bring two things onto
> the forefront; pride as a Nation and putting India on the worldmap
as
> the primary Info tech country.
>
> Yes, we can be one People and One Nation. We can have a Nation that
> can be defined as " Of the People, by the People and For the
People"
> and for this we do not need a unqualified and illitrate Italian
> hustler.
>
> Sardar Sanjay Matkar.
>
> --- In nationalistcongressparty@..., Shabab Husain
> <v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> > I dont know but why the Sonia issue, that she was not born in
India
> is so important.What is important is that she had married an Indian
> and so is she now an Indian Bahu.What is important is that all the
> secular parties need to get together on one front to fight against
> those communal parties who are all hell bent on dividing the
counytry
> on basis of religion.The issue of who will be the next Prime
Minister
> can be sorted out with leaders of all the secular parties choosing
a
> leader who is Indian by birth and Secular and who would be
acceptable
> to all.There is no dearth of such leaders.Pawar,Mulayam,Laloo,Jyoti
> Basu.....the list is too long.But a solution is possible.So lets
> forget abt minor issues and concentrate more on issues which are
> important for the Nation.
> > Hope the message reaches the heart.
> > S.Husain.
> >
> > Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> > Where was Sonia when India was at war? And after Mrs Gandhi lost
in
> > 1977?
> >
> >
> > It was interesting to read Professor Ashutosh Varshney's thoughts
> on
> > the question whether Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is Indian. And it was
> > amusing to note how ill-informed he is about citizenship laws, as
> > well as electoral laws, of not only India but also the United
> States
> > of America. Above all, it was surprising that an associate
> professor
> > at Columbia University should double up as a propagandist, that
too
> > of such low calibre.
> >
> > Whether or not Sonia Gandhi nee Maino should be entrusted with
the
> > responsibility of heading the government of India has nothing to
do
> > with "secular nationalism" or "Hindu nationalism." It has nothing
> to
> > do with Veer Savarkar's definition of a Hindu, which Professor
> > Varshney has quoted. It has nothing to do with India's alleged
> > pluralist, multi-ethnic identity. It has nothing to do with the
> fact
> > that she owes allegiance to the Vatican -- an allegiance that
> > transcends her claimed allegiance to India. It has nothing to do
> > with the patriotism of indigenous Indians (especially Sikhs and
> > Bengali Hindus) which Professor Varshney has questioned.
> >
> > It has everything to do with the fact that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino
> > was born an Italian and that there exists no public knowledge,
> leave
> > alone evidence, of the fact that she has voluntarily repudiated
her
> > Italian citizenship. I shall come to this point later. First, the
> > point about the ethics of entrusting her with the responsibility
of
> > heading the Government of India.
> >
> > Addressing a rally during the general election of 1998, Sonia
> Gandhi
> > nee Maino had said, "I am an Indian till my last breath." A noble
> > thought, indeed. But the mere expression of that thought does not
> > erase uncomfortable facts which must now necessarily be
resurrected
> > because she is no longer a private person beyond public scrutiny.
> > The uncomfortable questions that arise from these facts need to
be
> > dealt with by the President of the Republic of India before he
> > decides whether or not she can be entrusted with India's most
> > coveted public office.
> >
> > Sonia Gandhi nee Maino felt the need to proclaim that she is an
> > Indian till her last breath only after she entered the political
> > arena and needed to establish her credentials with the unwashed,
> but
> > fiercely patriotic, masses of middle India. What she did not tell
> > them was that she had retained her Italian passport and Italian
> > citizenship, not feeling the need to accept Indian citizenship,
> till
> > 1984.
> >
> > Rajiv Gandhi married Sonia Maino in 1968. Under India's
citizenship
> > laws (not framed by Hindu communalists but Congress secularists
in
> > the 1950s), she was entitled to seek Indian citizenship five
years
> > after her marriage, that is in 1974. But she chose not to
register
> > as an Indian citizen for the next 10 years. That could not have
> been
> > a casual oversight. Indeed, two incidents during these 10 years
> > suggest that it was a considered decision not to repudiate her
> > Italian citizenship.
> >
> > Let us then go back to those 10 years. During the India-Pakistan
> war
> > of 1971 (coinciding with the liberation struggle of Bangladesh),
> > under emergency provisions, the leave applications of all Indian
> > Airlines pilots were cancelled so that they could be used for
> > providing logistical support. The only exception was Rajiv
Gandhi,
> a
> > full-time pilot with Indian Airlines. Sonia Gandhi nee Maino, who
> > now claims that she is an Indian till her last breath, flew off
to
> > Italy with Rajiv Gandhi and their two children.
> >
> > While indigenous Indians serving as pilots with Indian Airlines
> > stood by to serve their motherland, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino and
> > family remained in the more congenial surroundings of Italy
during
> > the entire duration of the war, returning only after General
Niazi
> > had signed the surrender papers.
> >
> > The other incident, once again resurrected from those 10 years.
> > After news came in that the Congress and Indira Gandhi had been
> > defeated in 1977, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino packed an overnighter
and,
> > with husband and children in tow, took refuge in the Italian
> embassy
> > in New Delhi's Chanakyapuri. It took the combined efforts of
Indira
> > Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi and the other 'bahu' of the household,
Maneka
> > Gandhi nee Anand, to convince her to return to the Gandhi home.
> >
> > Therefore, the record shows that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino who now
> > aspires to be the prime minister of India chose not to be an
Indian
> > till it was pointed out that it would be awkward for Rajiv
Gandhi,
> > as prime minister, to have an Italian spouse. In other words, she
> > has been a citizen of India for a mere 15 years -- the exact date
> of
> > her conversion from Italian to Indian has never been disclosed to
> > the people of India whom she now wants to rule. The record also
> > shows that she fled from India in wartime. The record also shows
> > that she was perfectly eager to desert her mother-in-law, indeed
> > the 'dynasty' that she now flaunts as her asset, in her hour of
> > need.
> >
> > Now, the point about her citizenship and whether or not that
> > entitles her to the prime minister of India's office. Seen from a
> > narrow, legal perspective, there is nothing that prevents Sonia
> > Gandhi nee Maino from assuming charge as prime minister of India.
> > The Constitution of India, unlike the constitutions of many
Western
> > and Asian countries, puts no such bar on her. Unlike the USA,
> > Finland, Germany, Thailand or Singapore, India does not insist
that
> > the aspirant for the top job should be a natural born citizen.
> >
> > For a moment, let us assume that instead of Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia
> > Maino had married an American. She could not have aspired for,
> > forget her staking claim to, the American presidency. Article II,
> > Section 1(5) of the American constitution would have debarred her
> > from that office. It says, 'No person, except a natural born
> > citizen, or a citizen of the USA at the time of the adoption of
> this
> > Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President…'
> >
> > No such provision exists in the Constitution of India -- not
> because
> > it was framed by "secular nationalists" but because no member of
> the
> > Constituent Assembly could have ever imagined that 50 years after
> > Independence, a foreigner would be in the race for the prime
> > minister's job. If they had, they would have surely incorporated
> > necessary safeguards. Since they did not do so, Sonia Gandhi nee
> > Maino is perfectly eligible to apply for, and secure, the prime
> > minister of India's job.
> >
> > But, should the President of India merely go by the law book and
> not
> > take note of implications that could come to affect the very
> > functioning of the prime minister's office?
> >
> > Under the Indian Citizenship Act, there are three categories of
> > Indian citizens -- citizens by birth, citizens by registration
and
> > citizens by naturalisation. I am an Indian citizen, so is Sonia
> > Gandhi nee Maino. But I am an Indian citizen by birth, which
means
> > nobody can deprive me of my citizenship. On the other hand, Sonia
> > Gandhi nee Maino is a citizen by registration, which means that
> > under Indian laws, her citizenship, like that of those who are
> > citizens by naturalisation, can be taken away and she can be
> > deported.
> >
> > Sonia Gandhi nee Maino might well claim that she is an Indian
till
> > her last breath, but that does not mitigate the conditions and
> > restrictions governing her Indian citizenship. Her citizenship by
> > registration can be taken away under Section 10 of the
Citizenship
> > Act if the Government of India is satisfied that (a) the
> > registration was obtained by means of fraud or concealment of
> > material facts; (b) the registered citizen is disloyal or
> > disaffected towards the Constitution of India; and, (c) the
> > registered citizen raded or communicated with an enemy during
war.
> >
> > What if, after assuming office, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is held
> > guilty of any or all these charges by a court? Would it not
tarnish
> > the office she aspires for? And would she be comfortable in
office,
> > constantly concerned about the durability of her citizenship?
> >
> > There are other related issues that must impinge on the President
> of
> > India's mind when he sits down to work out who is best placed to
> > take charge as the next prime minister. One of them is the fact
> that
> > under Italian law, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino continues to be an
> Italian
> > citizen. That is, provided she has not voluntarily repudiated her
> > citizenship by birth in writing. There is no public evidence to
> > demonstrate that she has done so; therefore, it must be assumed
> that
> > she enjoys dual citizenship under Italian law (Indian law does
not
> > permit it) and that she continues to have access to an Italian
> > passport. It may sound frivolous, but she is as much eligible to
> > become the prime minister of Italy as she is to become the prime
> > minister of India.
> >
> > A last point. The constitution of the USA demands that an
applicant
> > for American citizenship must be proficient in English, loyal to
> the
> > USA and have basic knowledge of the constitution, the country's
> > history and system of government.
> >
> > If only the Constitution of India had similar guidelines, the
> > indigenous people of India would have been spared the ignominy of
> > being ruled by a person of foreign origin. For, Sonia Gandhi nee
> > Maino is proficient in no Indian language, including English; her
> > loyalty to India is all of 15 years old; her knowledge of the
> > Constitution of India is non-existent; she would fail the most
> > elementary history test; and, beyond the fact that she wants to
be
> > the prime minister of India, it is doubtful whether she has an
> > inkling about the Government of India.
> >
> > After a new prime minister is sworn in, the Press Information
> Bureau
> > publishes a pamphlet providing the biographical details of the
> > incumbent. Till now, nobody has ever looked at the pamphlet
because
> > all the individuals who have held the prime minister's office,
have
> > led a public life -- their minutest biographical details have
been
> > public knowledge for decades if not more.
> >
> > If Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is sworn in as prime minister of India,
> > for the first time the PIB's pamphlet will be eagerly read. After
> > all, India does not even know in which city was she born, what
are
> > the names of her parents, what school she went to, what language
> she
> > is most comfortable with, how many elections she has won and
lost,
> > where all has she represented India, what is her favourite dish,
> who
> > is her favourite Bollywood playback singer, who is her favourite
> > poet, etc. The usual trivia that makes up a sarkari prime
> > ministerial bio-data.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > nationalistcongressparty-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

BRAVO Mr. Ravi Kumar. You have put many things in their proper
perspective and I congratulate you on that. I just wish that we as
Indians would accept this and indulge in SELF DISCIPLINE.

Thank You for your Thoughts, and I hope that many of us will take a
lesson from them.

S.Sanjay Matkar


--- In nationalistcongressparty@..., ravi kumar
<ayurfun@y...> wrote:
> I have just responded  to Mr hussein, n bharat
> Mavani....
>
>
>
> Subject: Bleddy Indians
>
>
>
> >
> > YOU say that our government is inefficient.
> >
> > YOU say that our laws are too old.
> >
> > YOU say that the municipality does not pick up the
> garbage.
> >
> > YOU say that the phones don't work, the railways are
> a joke, the airline
> is
> > the worst in the world, and mails never reach their
> destination.
> >
> > YOU say that our country has been fed to the dogs
> and is the absolute
> pits.
> >
> > YOU say, say and say.
> >
> > What do YOU do about it?
> >
> > Take a person on his way to Singapore.
> > Give him a name - YOURS.
> > Give him a face - YOURS.
> >
> > YOU walk out of the airport and you are at your
> International best. In
> > Singapore you don't throw cigarette butts on the
> roads or eat in the
> stores.
> > YOU are as proud of their Underground Links as they
> are. You pay $5
> (approx.
> > Rs.60) to drive through Orchard Road (equivalent of
> Mahim Causeway or
> Pedder
> > Road)between 5 PM and 8 PM. YOU comeback to the
> parking lot to punch your
> > parking ticket if you have over stayed in a
> restaurant or a shopping mall
> > irrespective of your status identity.
> >
> > In Singapore you don't say anything, DO YOU?
> >
> > YOU wouldn't dare to eat in public during Ramadan,
> in Dubai.
> >
> > YOU would not dare to go out without your head
> covered in Jeddah.
> >
> > YOU would not dare to buy an employee of the
> telephone exchange in London
> at
> > 10 pounds (Rs.650) a month to, "see to it that my
> STD and ISD calls are
> > billed to someone else."
> >
> > YOU would not dare to speed beyond 55 mph (88kmph)in
> Washington and then
> > tell the traffic cop, "Jaanta hai sala main kaun
> hoon (Do you know who I
> > am?). I am so and so's son. Take your two bucks and
> get lost."
> >
> > YOU wouldn't chuck an empty coconut shell anywhere
> other than the garbage
> > pail on the beaches in Australia and New Zealand.
> >
> > Why don't YOU spit Paan on the streets of Tokyo?
> >
> > Why don't YOU use examination jockeys or buy fake
> certificates in Boston?
> >
> > We are still talking of the same YOU.  YOU who can
> respect and conform to
> a
> > foreign system in other countries but cannot in your
> own. You who will
> throw
> > papers and cigarettes on the road the moment you
> touch Indian ground. If
> you
> > can be an involved and appreciative citizen in an
> alien country why can't
> > you be the same here in India?
> >
> > Once in an interview, the famous Ex-municipal
> commissioner of Bombay
> > Mr.Tinaikar had a point to make. "Rich people's dogs
> are walked on the
> > streets to leave their affluent droppings all over
> the place," he said.
> "And
> > then the same people turn around to criticize and
> blame the authorities
> for
> > inefficiency and dirty pavements. What do they
> expect the officers to do?
> Go
> > down with a broom every time their dog feels the
> pressure in his bowels?
> In
> > America every dog owner has to clean up after his
> pet has done the job.
> Same
> > in Japan. Will the Indian citizen do that here?"
> He's right.
> >
> > We go to the polls to choose a government and after
> that forfeit all
> > responsibility. We sit back wanting to be pampered
> and expect the
> government
> > to do everything for us whilst our contribution is
> totally negative. We
> > expect the government to clean up but we are not
> going to stop chucking
> > garbage all over the place nor are we going to stoop
> to pick up a stray
> > piece of paper and throw it in the bin. We expect
> the railways to provide
> > clean bathrooms but we are not going to learn the
> proper use of bathrooms.
> > We want Indian Airlines and Air India to provide the
> best of food and
> > toiletries but we are not going to stop pilfering at
> the least
> opportunity.
> > This applies even to the staff who are known not to
> pass on the service to
> > the public.
> >
> > When it comes to burning social issues like those
> related to women, dowry,
> > girl child and others, we make loud drawing room
> protestations and
> continue
> > to do the reverse at home. Our excuse? "It's the
> whole system which has to
> > change, how will it matter if I alone forego my
> son's rights to a dowry."
> >
> > So who's going to change the system? What does a
> system consist of? Very
> > conveniently for us it consists of our neighbors,
> other households, other
> > cities, other communities and the government. But
> definitely not me and
> YOU.
> >
> > When it comes to us actually making a positive
> contribution to the system
> we
> > lock ourselves along with our families into a safe
> cocoon and look into &
> > work miracles for us with a majestic sweep of his
> hand. Or we leave the
> > country and run away. Like lazy cowards hounded by
> our fears we run to
> > America to bask in their glory and praise their
> system. When New York
> > becomes insecure we run to England. When England
> experiences unemployment,
> > we take the next flight out to the Gulf. When the
> Gulf is war struck, we
> > demand to be rescued and brought home by the Indian
> government.
> >
> > Everybody is out to abuse and rape the country.
> Nobody thinks of feeding
> the
> > system. Our conscience is mortgaged to money.
> >
> > Dear Indians, The article is highly thought
> inductive, calls for a great
> > deal of introspection and pricks one's conscience
> too....
> >
> > I am echoing J.F. Kennedy's words to his fellow
> Americans to relate to
> > Indians.....
> >
> > "ASK WHAT WE CAN DO FOR INDIA AND DO WHAT HAS TO BE
> DONE TO MAKE INDIA
> WHAT
> > AMERICA AND OTHER WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE TODAY" Lets
> do what India needs
> from
> > us.
> >
> > Forward this mail to each Indian for a change
> instead of sending Jokes or
> > junk mails. Thank you.
> >
>
>
>
> --- Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> > Dear Mr Husain;
> >
> > I am happy that you have commented upon this issue.
> > The main purpose
> > of this group is to generate a debate about who we
> > are as a Nation
> > and what is the defination of an "Indian" if I may
> > use that word
> > solely to define our nationalism.
> >
> > Sonia Gandhi's heritage is NOT a minor issue.
> > Foreign born persons
> > have been associated with India in the past, Annie
> > Beasant being a
> > prime example. But, while Annie Beasant honorably
> > discharged her
> > duties as President of the then Indian National
> > Congress, she never
> > tried to take over India.
> >
> > Sonia Gandhi has no right moral, legal or otherwise
> > to try to attain
> > a position for which she has zero qualifications. If
> > widow-hood was
> > an easy passport to jobs, then the Widow of every
> > Indian man who has
> > died in Government service should be given that
> > man's job. Lets have
> > all the Widows of our brave Jawans and police
> > officers start filling
> > those positions and taking over that jobs. I know
> > that you will laugh
> > at this suggestion, because both you and I know that
> > this is a
> > ludicrous idea. The Widows are not trained to do the
> > jobs their
> > husbands did. Identically, Sonia Gandhi has no,
> > repeat NO
> > qualifications to be the Prime Minister of India.
> > Furthermore, and
> > more important is the fact that India is not the
> > private kindgom of
> > the Gandhi family. The Gandhi family has been out of
> > power for the
> > past five years and the whole Nation of India has
> > changed. While I am
> > against the BJP for their religious proscecution of
> > minorities and
> > their hateful behavious of segregation of Indian
> > people; we have to
> > also accept the fact the their government did bring
> > two things onto
> > the forefront; pride as a Nation and putting India
> > on the worldmap as
> > the primary Info tech country.
> >
> > Yes, we can be one People and One Nation. We can
> > have a Nation that
> > can be defined as " Of the People, by the People and
> > For the People"
> > and for this we do not need a unqualified and
> > illitrate Italian
> > hustler.
> >
> > Sardar Sanjay Matkar.
> >
> > --- In nationalistcongressparty@...,
> > Shabab Husain
> > <v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> > > I dont know but why the Sonia issue, that she was
> > not born in India
> > is so important.What is important is that she had
> > married an Indian
> > and so is she now an Indian Bahu.What is important
> > is that all the
> > secular parties need to get together on one front to
> > fight against
> > those communal parties who are all hell bent on
> > dividing the counytry
> > on basis of religion.The issue of who will be the
> > next Prime Minister
> > can be sorted out with leaders of all the secular
> > parties choosing a
> > leader who is Indian by birth and Secular and who
> > would be acceptable
> > to all.There is no dearth of such
> > leaders.Pawar,Mulayam,Laloo,Jyoti
> > Basu.....the list is too long.But a solution is
> > possible.So lets
> > forget abt minor issues and concentrate more on
> > issues which are
> > important for the Nation.
> > > Hope the message reaches the heart.
> > > S.Husain.
> > >
> > > Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> > > Where was Sonia when India was at war? And after
> > Mrs Gandhi lost in
> > > 1977?
> > >
> > >
> > > It was interesting to read Professor Ashutosh
> > Varshney's thoughts
> > on
> > > the question whether Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is
> > Indian. And it was
> > > amusing to note how ill-informed he is about
> > citizenship laws, as
> > > well as electoral laws, of not only India but also
> > the United
> > States
> > > of America. Above all, it was surprising that an
> > associate
> > professor
> > > at Columbia University should double up as a
> > propagandist, that too
> > > of such low calibre.
> > >
> > > Whether or not Sonia Gandhi nee Maino should be
> > entrusted with the
> > > responsibility of heading the government of India
> > has nothing to do
> > > with "secular nationalism" or "Hindu nationalism."
> > It has nothing
> > to
> > > do with Veer Savarkar's definition of a Hindu,
> > which Professor
> > > Varshney has quoted. It has nothing to do with
> > India's alleged
> > > pluralist, multi-ethnic identity. It has nothing
> > to do with the
> > fact
> > > that she owes allegiance to the Vatican -- an
> > allegiance that
> > > transcends her claimed allegiance to India. It has
> > nothing to do
> > > with the patriotism of indigenous Indians
> > (especially Sikhs and
> > > Bengali Hindus) which Professor Varshney has
> > questioned.
> > >
> > > It has everything to do with the fact that Sonia
> > Gandhi nee Maino
> > > was born an Italian and that there exists no
> > public knowledge,
> > leave
> > > alone evidence, of the fact that she has
> > voluntarily repudiated her
> > > Italian citizenship. I shall come to this point
> > later. First, the
> > > point about the ethics of entrusting her with the
> > responsibility of
> > > heading the Government of India.
> > >
> > > Addressing a rally during the general election of
> > 1998, Sonia
> > Gandhi
> > > nee Maino had said, "I am an Indian till my last
> > breath." A noble
> > > thought, indeed. But the mere expression of that
> > thought does not
> > > erase uncomfortable facts which must now
> > necessarily be resurrected
> > > because she is no longer a private person beyond
> > public scrutiny.
> > > The uncomfortable questions that arise from these
> > facts need to be
> > > dealt with by the President of the Republic of
> > India before he
> > > decides whether or not she can be entrusted with
> > India's most
> > > coveted public office.
> > >
> > > Sonia Gandhi nee Maino felt the need to proclaim
> > that she is an
> > > Indian till her last breath only after she entered
> > the political
> > > arena and needed to establish her credentials with
> > the unwashed,
> > but
> > > fiercely patriotic, masses of middle India. What
> > she did not tell
> > > them was that she had retained her Italian
> > passport and Italian
> > > citizenship, not feeling the need to accept Indian
> > citizenship,
> > till
> > > 1984.
> > >
> > > Rajiv Gandhi married Sonia Maino in 1968. Under
> > India's citizenship
> > > laws (not framed by Hindu communalists but
> > Congress secularists in
> > > the 1950s), she was entitled to seek Indian
> > citizenship five years
> > > after her marriage, that is in 1974. But she chose
> > not to register
> > > as an Indian citizen for the next 10 years. That
> > could not have
> > been
> > > a casual oversight. Indeed, two incidents during
> > these
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Dear Mr. Husain,

Frankly, I believe that you are mixing up two completely seperate
issues. The BJP being anti- Indian is one issue.I completely agree
with you on that issue; that the BJP should be thrown out of power
and their attempts to divide the nation should be halted.

Sonia Gandhi is a second issue. My family sacrificed three of my
elders to fight the British. They laid their lives so you and I can
be a part of the Nation called INDEPENDENT INDIA. I do not know about
you, but I will not allow an Incompetant and Worthless Italian be the
Prime Minister of MY, repeat MY country.

Sardar Sanjay Matkar



--- In nationalistcongressparty@..., Shabab Husain
<v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> Dear Sanjay,
> You say that this government gave two things.......1] Pride as a
Nation, What pride do we have left after the riots in Gujarat and
continous terrorist attacks in Kashmir.2] Infotech- It was rajiv
Gandhi who bought infotech in India,had he been alive???
> The issue of SONIA is baseless.What if her sons are chosen as
leaders and to lead India,would u or all those who oppose Sonia
accept them ad they are born Indian.If yes, than if a child can be
accepted....why not mother????
> Think over it brother...lets join hands against those who are bent
upon dividing our Nation.Everyone fought for
freedom,Hindu,Muslim,Sikh,Dalits,all the religions in our great
country....even some English people supported India's struggle for
freedom.
> The policy of BJP is simple-DIVIDE and Rule.
>
>
> Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> Dear Mr Husain;
>
> I am happy that you have commented upon this issue. The main
purpose
> of this group is to generate a debate about who we are as a Nation
> and what is the defination of an "Indian" if I may use that word
> solely to define our nationalism.
>
> Sonia Gandhi's heritage is NOT a minor issue. Foreign born persons
> have been associated with India in the past, Annie Beasant being a
> prime example. But, while Annie Beasant honorably discharged her
> duties as President of the then Indian National Congress, she never
> tried to take over India.
>
> Sonia Gandhi has no right moral, legal or otherwise to try to
attain
> a position for which she has zero qualifications. If widow-hood was
> an easy passport to jobs, then the Widow of every Indian man who
has
> died in Government service should be given that man's job. Lets
have
> all the Widows of our brave Jawans and police officers start
filling
> those positions and taking over that jobs. I know that you will
laugh
> at this suggestion, because both you and I know that this is a
> ludicrous idea. The Widows are not trained to do the jobs their
> husbands did. Identically, Sonia Gandhi has no, repeat NO
> qualifications to be the Prime Minister of India. Furthermore, and
> more important is the fact that India is not the private kindgom of
> the Gandhi family. The Gandhi family has been out of power for the
> past five years and the whole Nation of India has changed. While I
am
> against the BJP for their religious proscecution of minorities and
> their hateful behavious of segregation of Indian people; we have to
> also accept the fact the their government did bring two things onto
> the forefront; pride as a Nation and putting India on the worldmap
as
> the primary Info tech country.
>
> Yes, we can be one People and One Nation. We can have a Nation that
> can be defined as " Of the People, by the People and For the
People"
> and for this we do not need a unqualified and illitrate Italian
> hustler.
>
> Sardar Sanjay Matkar.
>
> --- In nationalistcongressparty@..., Shabab Husain
> <v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> > I dont know but why the Sonia issue, that she was not born in
India
> is so important.What is important is that she had married an Indian
> and so is she now an Indian Bahu.What is important is that all the
> secular parties need to get together on one front to fight against
> those communal parties who are all hell bent on dividing the
counytry
> on basis of religion.The issue of who will be the next Prime
Minister
> can be sorted out with leaders of all the secular parties choosing
a
> leader who is Indian by birth and Secular and who would be
acceptable
> to all.There is no dearth of such leaders.Pawar,Mulayam,Laloo,Jyoti
> Basu.....the list is too long.But a solution is possible.So lets
> forget abt minor issues and concentrate more on issues which are
> important for the Nation.
> > Hope the message reaches the heart.
> > S.Husain.
> >
> > Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> > Where was Sonia when India was at war? And after Mrs Gandhi lost
in
> > 1977?
> >
> >
> > It was interesting to read Professor Ashutosh Varshney's thoughts
> on
> > the question whether Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is Indian. And it was
> > amusing to note how ill-informed he is about citizenship laws, as
> > well as electoral laws, of not only India but also the United
> States
> > of America. Above all, it was surprising that an associate
> professor
> > at Columbia University should double up as a propagandist, that
too
> > of such low calibre.
> >
> > Whether or not Sonia Gandhi nee Maino should be entrusted with
the
> > responsibility of heading the government of India has nothing to
do
> > with "secular nationalism" or "Hindu nationalism." It has nothing
> to
> > do with Veer Savarkar's definition of a Hindu, which Professor
> > Varshney has quoted. It has nothing to do with India's alleged
> > pluralist, multi-ethnic identity. It has nothing to do with the
> fact
> > that she owes allegiance to the Vatican -- an allegiance that
> > transcends her claimed allegiance to India. It has nothing to do
> > with the patriotism of indigenous Indians (especially Sikhs and
> > Bengali Hindus) which Professor Varshney has questioned.
> >
> > It has everything to do with the fact that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino
> > was born an Italian and that there exists no public knowledge,
> leave
> > alone evidence, of the fact that she has voluntarily repudiated
her
> > Italian citizenship. I shall come to this point later. First, the
> > point about the ethics of entrusting her with the responsibility
of
> > heading the Government of India.
> >
> > Addressing a rally during the general election of 1998, Sonia
> Gandhi
> > nee Maino had said, "I am an Indian till my last breath." A noble
> > thought, indeed. But the mere expression of that thought does not
> > erase uncomfortable facts which must now necessarily be
resurrected
> > because she is no longer a private person beyond public scrutiny.
> > The uncomfortable questions that arise from these facts need to
be
> > dealt with by the President of the Republic of India before he
> > decides whether or not she can be entrusted with India's most
> > coveted public office.
> >
> > Sonia Gandhi nee Maino felt the need to proclaim that she is an
> > Indian till her last breath only after she entered the political
> > arena and needed to establish her credentials with the unwashed,
> but
> > fiercely patriotic, masses of middle India. What she did not tell
> > them was that she had retained her Italian passport and Italian
> > citizenship, not feeling the need to accept Indian citizenship,
> till
> > 1984.
> >
> > Rajiv Gandhi married Sonia Maino in 1968. Under India's
citizenship
> > laws (not framed by Hindu communalists but Congress secularists
in
> > the 1950s), she was entitled to seek Indian citizenship five
years
> > after her marriage, that is in 1974. But she chose not to
register
> > as an Indian citizen for the next 10 years. That could not have
> been
> > a casual oversight. Indeed, two incidents during these 10 years
> > suggest that it was a considered decision not to repudiate her
> > Italian citizenship.
> >
> > Let us then go back to those 10 years. During the India-Pakistan
> war
> > of 1971 (coinciding with the liberation struggle of Bangladesh),
> > under emergency provisions, the leave applications of all Indian
> > Airlines pilots were cancelled so that they could be used for
> > providing logistical support. The only exception was Rajiv
Gandhi,
> a
> > full-time pilot with Indian Airlines. Sonia Gandhi nee Maino, who
> > now claims that she is an Indian till her last breath, flew off
to
> > Italy with Rajiv Gandhi and their two children.
> >
> > While indigenous Indians serving as pilots with Indian Airlines
> > stood by to serve their motherland, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino and
> > family remained in the more congenial surroundings of Italy
during
> > the entire duration of the war, returning only after General
Niazi
> > had signed the surrender papers.
> >
> > The other incident, once again resurrected from those 10 years.
> > After news came in that the Congress and Indira Gandhi had been
> > defeated in 1977, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino packed an overnighter
and,
> > with husband and children in tow, took refuge in the Italian
> embassy
> > in New Delhi's Chanakyapuri. It took the combined efforts of
Indira
> > Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi and the other 'bahu' of the household,
Maneka
> > Gandhi nee Anand, to convince her to return to the Gandhi home.
> >
> > Therefore, the record shows that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino who now
> > aspires to be the prime minister of India chose not to be an
Indian
> > till it was pointed out that it would be awkward for Rajiv
Gandhi,
> > as prime minister, to have an Italian spouse. In other words, she
> > has been a citizen of India for a mere 15 years -- the exact date
> of
> > her conversion from Italian to Indian has never been disclosed to
> > the people of India whom she now wants to rule. The record also
> > shows that she fled from India in wartime. The record also shows
> > that she was perfectly eager to desert her mother-in-law, indeed
> > the 'dynasty' that she now flaunts as her asset, in her hour of
> > need.
> >
> > Now, the point about her citizenship and whether or not that
> > entitles her to the prime minister of India's office. Seen from a
> > narrow, legal perspective, there is nothing that prevents Sonia
> > Gandhi nee Maino from assuming charge as prime minister of India.
> > The Constitution of India, unlike the constitutions of many
Western
> > and Asian countries, puts no such bar on her. Unlike the USA,
> > Finland, Germany, Thailand or Singapore, India does not insist
that
> > the aspirant for the top job should be a natural born citizen.
> >
> > For a moment, let us assume that instead of Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia
> > Maino had married an American. She could not have aspired for,
> > forget her staking claim to, the American presidency. Article II,
> > Section 1(5) of the American constitution would have debarred her
> > from that office. It says, 'No person, except a natural born
> > citizen, or a citizen of the USA at the time of the adoption of
> this
> > Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President…'
> >
> > No such provision exists in the Constitution of India -- not
> because
> > it was framed by "secular nationalists" but because no member of
> the
> > Constituent Assembly could have ever imagined that 50 years after
> > Independence, a foreigner would be in the race for the prime
> > minister's job. If they had, they would have surely incorporated
> > necessary safeguards. Since they did not do so, Sonia Gandhi nee
> > Maino is perfectly eligible to apply for, and secure, the prime
> > minister of India's job.
> >
> > But, should the President of India merely go by the law book and
> not
> > take note of implications that could come to affect the very
> > functioning of the prime minister's office?
> >
> > Under the Indian Citizenship Act, there are three categories of
> > Indian citizens -- citizens by birth, citizens by registration
and
> > citizens by naturalisation. I am an Indian citizen, so is Sonia
> > Gandhi nee Maino. But I am an Indian citizen by birth, which
means
> > nobody can deprive me of my citizenship. On the other hand, Sonia
> > Gandhi nee Maino is a citizen by registration, which means that
> > under Indian laws, her citizenship, like that of those who are
> > citizens by naturalisation, can be taken away and she can be
> > deported.
> >
> > Sonia Gandhi nee Maino might well claim that she is an Indian
till
> > her last breath, but that does not mitigate the conditions and
> > restrictions governing her Indian citizenship. Her citizenship by
> > registration can be taken away under Section 10 of the
Citizenship
> > Act if the Government of India is satisfied that (a) the
> > registration was obtained by means of fraud or concealment of
> > material facts; (b) the registered citizen is disloyal or
> > disaffected towards the Constitution of India; and, (c) the
> > registered citizen raded or communicated with an enemy during
war.
> >
> > What if, after assuming office, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is held
> > guilty of any or all these charges by a court? Would it not
tarnish
> > the office she aspires for? And would she be comfortable in
office,
> > constantly concerned about the durability of her citizenship?
> >
> > There are other related issues that must impinge on the President
> of
> > India's mind when he sits down to work out who is best placed to
> > take charge as the next prime minister. One of them is the fact
> that
> > under Italian law, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino continues to be an
> Italian
> > citizen. That is, provided she has not voluntarily repudiated her
> > citizenship by birth in writing. There is no public evidence to
> > demonstrate that she has done so; therefore, it must be assumed
> that
> > she enjoys dual citizenship under Italian law (Indian law does
not
> > permit it) and that she continues to have access to an Italian
> > passport. It may sound frivolous, but she is as much eligible to
> > become the prime minister of Italy as she is to become the prime
> > minister of India.
> >
> > A last point. The constitution of the USA demands that an
applicant
> > for American citizenship must be proficient in English, loyal to
> the
> > USA and have basic knowledge of the constitution, the country's
> > history and system of government.
> >
> > If only the Constitution of India had similar guidelines, the
> > indigenous people of India would have been spared the ignominy of
> > being ruled by a person of foreign origin. For, Sonia Gandhi nee
> > Maino is proficient in no Indian language, including English; her
> > loyalty to India is all of 15 years old; her knowledge of the
> > Constitution of India is non-existent; she would fail the most
> > elementary history test; and, beyond the fact that she wants to
be
> > the prime minister of India, it is doubtful whether she has an
> > inkling about the Government of India.
> >
> > After a new prime minister is sworn in, the Press Information
> Bureau
> > publishes a pamphlet providing the biographical details of the
> > incumbent. Till now, nobody has ever looked at the pamphlet
because
> > all the individuals who have held the prime minister's office,
have
> > led a public life -- their minutest biographical details have
been
> > public knowledge for decades if not more.
> >
> > If Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is sworn in as prime minister of India,
> > for the first time the PIB's pamphlet will be eagerly read. After
> > all, India does not even know in which city was she born, what
are
> > the names of her parents, what school she went to, what language
> she
> > is most comfortable with, how many elections she has won and
lost,
> > where all has she represented India, what is her favourite dish,
> who
> > is her favourite Bollywood playback singer, who is her favourite
> > poet, etc. The usual trivia that makes up a sarkari prime
> > ministerial bio-data.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > nationalistcongressparty-unsubscribe@...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> nationalistcongressparty-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Sanjay,
You say that this government gave two things.......1] Pride as a Nation, What
pride do we have left after the riots in Gujarat and continous terrorist attacks
in Kashmir.2] Infotech- It was rajiv Gandhi who bought infotech in India,had he
been alive???
The issue of SONIA is baseless.What if her sons are chosen as leaders and to
lead India,would u or all those who oppose Sonia accept them ad they are born
Indian.If yes, than if a child can be accepted....why not mother????
Think over it brother...lets join hands against those who are bent upon dividing
our Nation.Everyone fought for freedom,Hindu,Muslim,Sikh,Dalits,all the
religions in our great country....even some English people supported India's
struggle for freedom.
The policy of BJP is simple-DIVIDE and Rule.


Sanjay <kozak_vodka@...> wrote:
Dear Mr Husain;

I am happy that you have commented upon this issue. The main purpose
of this group is to generate a debate about who we are as a Nation
and what is the defination of an "Indian" if I may use that word
solely to define our nationalism.

Sonia Gandhi's heritage is NOT a minor issue. Foreign born persons
have been associated with India in the past, Annie Beasant being a
prime example. But, while Annie Beasant honorably discharged her
duties as President of the then Indian National Congress, she never
tried to take over India.

Sonia Gandhi has no right moral, legal or otherwise to try to attain
a position for which she has zero qualifications. If widow-hood was
an easy passport to jobs, then the Widow of every Indian man who has
died in Government service should be given that man's job. Lets have
all the Widows of our brave Jawans and police officers start filling
those positions and taking over that jobs. I know that you will laugh
at this suggestion, because both you and I know that this is a
ludicrous idea. The Widows are not trained to do the jobs their
husbands did. Identically, Sonia Gandhi has no, repeat NO
qualifications to be the Prime Minister of India. Furthermore, and
more important is the fact that India is not the private kindgom of
the Gandhi family. The Gandhi family has been out of power for the
past five years and the whole Nation of India has changed. While I am
against the BJP for their religious proscecution of minorities and
their hateful behavious of segregation of Indian people; we have to
also accept the fact the their government did bring two things onto
the forefront; pride as a Nation and putting India on the worldmap as
the primary Info tech country.

Yes, we can be one People and One Nation. We can have a Nation that
can be defined as " Of the People, by the People and For the People"
and for this we do not need a unqualified and illitrate Italian
hustler.

Sardar Sanjay Matkar.

--- In nationalistcongressparty@..., Shabab Husain
<v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> I dont know but why the Sonia issue, that she was not born in India
is so important.What is important is that she had married an Indian
and so is she now an Indian Bahu.What is important is that all the
secular parties need to get together on one front to fight against
those communal parties who are all hell bent on dividing the counytry
on basis of religion.The issue of who will be the next Prime Minister
can be sorted out with leaders of all the secular parties choosing a
leader who is Indian by birth and Secular and who would be acceptable
to all.There is no dearth of such leaders.Pawar,Mulayam,Laloo,Jyoti
Basu.....the list is too long.But a solution is possible.So lets
forget abt minor issues and concentrate more on issues which are
important for the Nation.
> Hope the message reaches the heart.
> S.Husain.
>
> Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> Where was Sonia when India was at war? And after Mrs Gandhi lost in
> 1977?
>
>
> It was interesting to read Professor Ashutosh Varshney's thoughts
on
> the question whether Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is Indian. And it was
> amusing to note how ill-informed he is about citizenship laws, as
> well as electoral laws, of not only India but also the United
States
> of America. Above all, it was surprising that an associate
professor
> at Columbia University should double up as a propagandist, that too
> of such low calibre.
>
> Whether or not Sonia Gandhi nee Maino should be entrusted with the
> responsibility of heading the government of India has nothing to do
> with "secular nationalism" or "Hindu nationalism." It has nothing
to
> do with Veer Savarkar's definition of a Hindu, which Professor
> Varshney has quoted. It has nothing to do with India's alleged
> pluralist, multi-ethnic identity. It has nothing to do with the
fact
> that she owes allegiance to the Vatican -- an allegiance that
> transcends her claimed allegiance to India. It has nothing to do
> with the patriotism of indigenous Indians (especially Sikhs and
> Bengali Hindus) which Professor Varshney has questioned.
>
> It has everything to do with the fact that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino
> was born an Italian and that there exists no public knowledge,
leave
> alone evidence, of the fact that she has voluntarily repudiated her
> Italian citizenship. I shall come to this point later. First, the
> point about the ethics of entrusting her with the responsibility of
> heading the Government of India.
>
> Addressing a rally during the general election of 1998, Sonia
Gandhi
> nee Maino had said, "I am an Indian till my last breath." A noble
> thought, indeed. But the mere expression of that thought does not
> erase uncomfortable facts which must now necessarily be resurrected
> because she is no longer a private person beyond public scrutiny.
> The uncomfortable questions that arise from these facts need to be
> dealt with by the President of the Republic of India before he
> decides whether or not she can be entrusted with India's most
> coveted public office.
>
> Sonia Gandhi nee Maino felt the need to proclaim that she is an
> Indian till her last breath only after she entered the political
> arena and needed to establish her credentials with the unwashed,
but
> fiercely patriotic, masses of middle India. What she did not tell
> them was that she had retained her Italian passport and Italian
> citizenship, not feeling the need to accept Indian citizenship,
till
> 1984.
>
> Rajiv Gandhi married Sonia Maino in 1968. Under India's citizenship
> laws (not framed by Hindu communalists but Congress secularists in
> the 1950s), she was entitled to seek Indian citizenship five years
> after her marriage, that is in 1974. But she chose not to register
> as an Indian citizen for the next 10 years. That could not have
been
> a casual oversight. Indeed, two incidents during these 10 years
> suggest that it was a considered decision not to repudiate her
> Italian citizenship.
>
> Let us then go back to those 10 years. During the India-Pakistan
war
> of 1971 (coinciding with the liberation struggle of Bangladesh),
> under emergency provisions, the leave applications of all Indian
> Airlines pilots were cancelled so that they could be used for
> providing logistical support. The only exception was Rajiv Gandhi,
a
> full-time pilot with Indian Airlines. Sonia Gandhi nee Maino, who
> now claims that she is an Indian till her last breath, flew off to
> Italy with Rajiv Gandhi and their two children.
>
> While indigenous Indians serving as pilots with Indian Airlines
> stood by to serve their motherland, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino and
> family remained in the more congenial surroundings of Italy during
> the entire duration of the war, returning only after General Niazi
> had signed the surrender papers.
>
> The other incident, once again resurrected from those 10 years.
> After news came in that the Congress and Indira Gandhi had been
> defeated in 1977, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino packed an overnighter and,
> with husband and children in tow, took refuge in the Italian
embassy
> in New Delhi's Chanakyapuri. It took the combined efforts of Indira
> Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi and the other 'bahu' of the household, Maneka
> Gandhi nee Anand, to convince her to return to the Gandhi home.
>
> Therefore, the record shows that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino who now
> aspires to be the prime minister of India chose not to be an Indian
> till it was pointed out that it would be awkward for Rajiv Gandhi,
> as prime minister, to have an Italian spouse. In other words, she
> has been a citizen of India for a mere 15 years -- the exact date
of
> her conversion from Italian to Indian has never been disclosed to
> the people of India whom she now wants to rule. The record also
> shows that she fled from India in wartime. The record also shows
> that she was perfectly eager to desert her mother-in-law, indeed
> the 'dynasty' that she now flaunts as her asset, in her hour of
> need.
>
> Now, the point about her citizenship and whether or not that
> entitles her to the prime minister of India's office. Seen from a
> narrow, legal perspective, there is nothing that prevents Sonia
> Gandhi nee Maino from assuming charge as prime minister of India.
> The Constitution of India, unlike the constitutions of many Western
> and Asian countries, puts no such bar on her. Unlike the USA,
> Finland, Germany, Thailand or Singapore, India does not insist that
> the aspirant for the top job should be a natural born citizen.
>
> For a moment, let us assume that instead of Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia
> Maino had married an American. She could not have aspired for,
> forget her staking claim to, the American presidency. Article II,
> Section 1(5) of the American constitution would have debarred her
> from that office. It says, 'No person, except a natural born
> citizen, or a citizen of the USA at the time of the adoption of
this
> Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President…'
>
> No such provision exists in the Constitution of India -- not
because
> it was framed by "secular nationalists" but because no member of
the
> Constituent Assembly could have ever imagined that 50 years after
> Independence, a foreigner would be in the race for the prime
> minister's job. If they had, they would have surely incorporated
> necessary safeguards. Since they did not do so, Sonia Gandhi nee
> Maino is perfectly eligible to apply for, and secure, the prime
> minister of India's job.
>
> But, should the President of India merely go by the law book and
not
> take note of implications that could come to affect the very
> functioning of the prime minister's office?
>
> Under the Indian Citizenship Act, there are three categories of
> Indian citizens -- citizens by birth, citizens by registration and
> citizens by naturalisation. I am an Indian citizen, so is Sonia
> Gandhi nee Maino. But I am an Indian citizen by birth, which means
> nobody can deprive me of my citizenship. On the other hand, Sonia
> Gandhi nee Maino is a citizen by registration, which means that
> under Indian laws, her citizenship, like that of those who are
> citizens by naturalisation, can be taken away and she can be
> deported.
>
> Sonia Gandhi nee Maino might well claim that she is an Indian till
> her last breath, but that does not mitigate the conditions and
> restrictions governing her Indian citizenship. Her citizenship by
> registration can be taken away under Section 10 of the Citizenship
> Act if the Government of India is satisfied that (a) the
> registration was obtained by means of fraud or concealment of
> material facts; (b) the registered citizen is disloyal or
> disaffected towards the Constitution of India; and, (c) the
> registered citizen raded or communicated with an enemy during war.
>
> What if, after assuming office, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is held
> guilty of any or all these charges by a court? Would it not tarnish
> the office she aspires for? And would she be comfortable in office,
> constantly concerned about the durability of her citizenship?
>
> There are other related issues that must impinge on the President
of
> India's mind when he sits down to work out who is best placed to
> take charge as the next prime minister. One of them is the fact
that
> under Italian law, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino continues to be an
Italian
> citizen. That is, provided she has not voluntarily repudiated her
> citizenship by birth in writing. There is no public evidence to
> demonstrate that she has done so; therefore, it must be assumed
that
> she enjoys dual citizenship under Italian law (Indian law does not
> permit it) and that she continues to have access to an Italian
> passport. It may sound frivolous, but she is as much eligible to
> become the prime minister of Italy as she is to become the prime
> minister of India.
>
> A last point. The constitution of the USA demands that an applicant
> for American citizenship must be proficient in English, loyal to
the
> USA and have basic knowledge of the constitution, the country's
> history and system of government.
>
> If only the Constitution of India had similar guidelines, the
> indigenous people of India would have been spared the ignominy of
> being ruled by a person of foreign origin. For, Sonia Gandhi nee
> Maino is proficient in no Indian language, including English; her
> loyalty to India is all of 15 years old; her knowledge of the
> Constitution of India is non-existent; she would fail the most
> elementary history test; and, beyond the fact that she wants to be
> the prime minister of India, it is doubtful whether she has an
> inkling about the Government of India.
>
> After a new prime minister is sworn in, the Press Information
Bureau
> publishes a pamphlet providing the biographical details of the
> incumbent. Till now, nobody has ever looked at the pamphlet because
> all the individuals who have held the prime minister's office, have
> led a public life -- their minutest biographical details have been
> public knowledge for decades if not more.
>
> If Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is sworn in as prime minister of India,
> for the first time the PIB's pamphlet will be eagerly read. After
> all, India does not even know in which city was she born, what are
> the names of her parents, what school she went to, what language
she
> is most comfortable with, how many elections she has won and lost,
> where all has she represented India, what is her favourite dish,
who
> is her favourite Bollywood playback singer, who is her favourite
> poet, etc. The usual trivia that makes up a sarkari prime
> ministerial bio-data.
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> nationalistcongressparty-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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I have just responded  to Mr hussein, n bharat
Mavani....



Subject: Bleddy Indians



>
> YOU say that our government is inefficient.
>
> YOU say that our laws are too old.
>
> YOU say that the municipality does not pick up the
garbage.
>
> YOU say that the phones don't work, the railways are
a joke, the airline
is
> the worst in the world, and mails never reach their
destination.
>
> YOU say that our country has been fed to the dogs
and is the absolute
pits.
>
> YOU say, say and say.
>
> What do YOU do about it?
>
> Take a person on his way to Singapore.
> Give him a name - YOURS.
> Give him a face - YOURS.
>
> YOU walk out of the airport and you are at your
International best. In
> Singapore you don't throw cigarette butts on the
roads or eat in the
stores.
> YOU are as proud of their Underground Links as they
are. You pay $5
(approx.
> Rs.60) to drive through Orchard Road (equivalent of
Mahim Causeway or
Pedder
> Road)between 5 PM and 8 PM. YOU comeback to the
parking lot to punch your
> parking ticket if you have over stayed in a
restaurant or a shopping mall
> irrespective of your status identity.
>
> In Singapore you don't say anything, DO YOU?
>
> YOU wouldn't dare to eat in public during Ramadan,
in Dubai.
>
> YOU would not dare to go out without your head
covered in Jeddah.
>
> YOU would not dare to buy an employee of the
telephone exchange in London
at
> 10 pounds (Rs.650) a month to, "see to it that my
STD and ISD calls are
> billed to someone else."
>
> YOU would not dare to speed beyond 55 mph (88kmph)in
Washington and then
> tell the traffic cop, "Jaanta hai sala main kaun
hoon (Do you know who I
> am?). I am so and so's son. Take your two bucks and
get lost."
>
> YOU wouldn't chuck an empty coconut shell anywhere
other than the garbage
> pail on the beaches in Australia and New Zealand.
>
> Why don't YOU spit Paan on the streets of Tokyo?
>
> Why don't YOU use examination jockeys or buy fake
certificates in Boston?
>
> We are still talking of the same YOU.  YOU who can
respect and conform to
a
> foreign system in other countries but cannot in your
own. You who will
throw
> papers and cigarettes on the road the moment you
touch Indian ground. If
you
> can be an involved and appreciative citizen in an
alien country why can't
> you be the same here in India?
>
> Once in an interview, the famous Ex-municipal
commissioner of Bombay
> Mr.Tinaikar had a point to make. "Rich people's dogs
are walked on the
> streets to leave their affluent droppings all over
the place," he said.
"And
> then the same people turn around to criticize and
blame the authorities
for
> inefficiency and dirty pavements. What do they
expect the officers to do?
Go
> down with a broom every time their dog feels the
pressure in his bowels?
In
> America every dog owner has to clean up after his
pet has done the job.
Same
> in Japan. Will the Indian citizen do that here?"
He's right.
>
> We go to the polls to choose a government and after
that forfeit all
> responsibility. We sit back wanting to be pampered
and expect the
government
> to do everything for us whilst our contribution is
totally negative. We
> expect the government to clean up but we are not
going to stop chucking
> garbage all over the place nor are we going to stoop
to pick up a stray
> piece of paper and throw it in the bin. We expect
the railways to provide
> clean bathrooms but we are not going to learn the
proper use of bathrooms.
> We want Indian Airlines and Air India to provide the
best of food and
> toiletries but we are not going to stop pilfering at
the least
opportunity.
> This applies even to the staff who are known not to
pass on the service to
> the public.
>
> When it comes to burning social issues like those
related to women, dowry,
> girl child and others, we make loud drawing room
protestations and
continue
> to do the reverse at home. Our excuse? "It's the
whole system which has to
> change, how will it matter if I alone forego my
son's rights to a dowry."
>
> So who's going to change the system? What does a
system consist of? Very
> conveniently for us it consists of our neighbors,
other households, other
> cities, other communities and the government. But
definitely not me and
YOU.
>
> When it comes to us actually making a positive
contribution to the system
we
> lock ourselves along with our families into a safe
cocoon and look into &
> work miracles for us with a majestic sweep of his
hand. Or we leave the
> country and run away. Like lazy cowards hounded by
our fears we run to
> America to bask in their glory and praise their
system. When New York
> becomes insecure we run to England. When England
experiences unemployment,
> we take the next flight out to the Gulf. When the
Gulf is war struck, we
> demand to be rescued and brought home by the Indian
government.
>
> Everybody is out to abuse and rape the country.
Nobody thinks of feeding
the
> system. Our conscience is mortgaged to money.
>
> Dear Indians, The article is highly thought
inductive, calls for a great
> deal of introspection and pricks one's conscience
too....
>
> I am echoing J.F. Kennedy's words to his fellow
Americans to relate to
> Indians.....
>
> "ASK WHAT WE CAN DO FOR INDIA AND DO WHAT HAS TO BE
DONE TO MAKE INDIA
WHAT
> AMERICA AND OTHER WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE TODAY" Lets
do what India needs
from
> us.
>
> Forward this mail to each Indian for a change
instead of sending Jokes or
> junk mails. Thank you.
>



--- Sanjay <kozak_vodka@...> wrote:
> Dear Mr Husain;
>
> I am happy that you have commented upon this issue.
> The main purpose
> of this group is to generate a debate about who we
> are as a Nation
> and what is the defination of an "Indian" if I may
> use that word
> solely to define our nationalism.
>
> Sonia Gandhi's heritage is NOT a minor issue.
> Foreign born persons
> have been associated with India in the past, Annie
> Beasant being a
> prime example. But, while Annie Beasant honorably
> discharged her
> duties as President of the then Indian National
> Congress, she never
> tried to take over India.
>
> Sonia Gandhi has no right moral, legal or otherwise
> to try to attain
> a position for which she has zero qualifications. If
> widow-hood was
> an easy passport to jobs, then the Widow of every
> Indian man who has
> died in Government service should be given that
> man's job. Lets have
> all the Widows of our brave Jawans and police
> officers start filling
> those positions and taking over that jobs. I know
> that you will laugh
> at this suggestion, because both you and I know that
> this is a
> ludicrous idea. The Widows are not trained to do the
> jobs their
> husbands did. Identically, Sonia Gandhi has no,
> repeat NO
> qualifications to be the Prime Minister of India.
> Furthermore, and
> more important is the fact that India is not the
> private kindgom of
> the Gandhi family. The Gandhi family has been out of
> power for the
> past five years and the whole Nation of India has
> changed. While I am
> against the BJP for their religious proscecution of
> minorities and
> their hateful behavious of segregation of Indian
> people; we have to
> also accept the fact the their government did bring
> two things onto
> the forefront; pride as a Nation and putting India
> on the worldmap as
> the primary Info tech country.
>
> Yes, we can be one People and One Nation. We can
> have a Nation that
> can be defined as " Of the People, by the People and
> For the People"
> and for this we do not need a unqualified and
> illitrate Italian
> hustler.
>
> Sardar Sanjay Matkar.
>
> --- In nationalistcongressparty@...,
> Shabab Husain
> <v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> > I dont know but why the Sonia issue, that she was
> not born in India
> is so important.What is important is that she had
> married an Indian
> and so is she now an Indian Bahu.What is important
> is that all the
> secular parties need to get together on one front to
> fight against
> those communal parties who are all hell bent on
> dividing the counytry
> on basis of religion.The issue of who will be the
> next Prime Minister
> can be sorted out with leaders of all the secular
> parties choosing a
> leader who is Indian by birth and Secular and who
> would be acceptable
> to all.There is no dearth of such
> leaders.Pawar,Mulayam,Laloo,Jyoti
> Basu.....the list is too long.But a solution is
> possible.So lets
> forget abt minor issues and concentrate more on
> issues which are
> important for the Nation.
> > Hope the message reaches the heart.
> > S.Husain.
> >
> > Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> > Where was Sonia when India was at war? And after
> Mrs Gandhi lost in
> > 1977?
> >
> >
> > It was interesting to read Professor Ashutosh
> Varshney's thoughts
> on
> > the question whether Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is
> Indian. And it was
> > amusing to note how ill-informed he is about
> citizenship laws, as
> > well as electoral laws, of not only India but also
> the United
> States
> > of America. Above all, it was surprising that an
> associate
> professor
> > at Columbia University should double up as a
> propagandist, that too
> > of such low calibre.
> >
> > Whether or not Sonia Gandhi nee Maino should be
> entrusted with the
> > responsibility of heading the government of India
> has nothing to do
> > with "secular nationalism" or "Hindu nationalism."
> It has nothing
> to
> > do with Veer Savarkar's definition of a Hindu,
> which Professor
> > Varshney has quoted. It has nothing to do with
> India's alleged
> > pluralist, multi-ethnic identity. It has nothing
> to do with the
> fact
> > that she owes allegiance to the Vatican -- an
> allegiance that
> > transcends her claimed allegiance to India. It has
> nothing to do
> > with the patriotism of indigenous Indians
> (especially Sikhs and
> > Bengali Hindus) which Professor Varshney has
> questioned.
> >
> > It has everything to do with the fact that Sonia
> Gandhi nee Maino
> > was born an Italian and that there exists no
> public knowledge,
> leave
> > alone evidence, of the fact that she has
> voluntarily repudiated her
> > Italian citizenship. I shall come to this point
> later. First, the
> > point about the ethics of entrusting her with the
> responsibility of
> > heading the Government of India.
> >
> > Addressing a rally during the general election of
> 1998, Sonia
> Gandhi
> > nee Maino had said, "I am an Indian till my last
> breath." A noble
> > thought, indeed. But the mere expression of that
> thought does not
> > erase uncomfortable facts which must now
> necessarily be resurrected
> > because she is no longer a private person beyond
> public scrutiny.
> > The uncomfortable questions that arise from these
> facts need to be
> > dealt with by the President of the Republic of
> India before he
> > decides whether or not she can be entrusted with
> India's most
> > coveted public office.
> >
> > Sonia Gandhi nee Maino felt the need to proclaim
> that she is an
> > Indian till her last breath only after she entered
> the political
> > arena and needed to establish her credentials with
> the unwashed,
> but
> > fiercely patriotic, masses of middle India. What
> she did not tell
> > them was that she had retained her Italian
> passport and Italian
> > citizenship, not feeling the need to accept Indian
> citizenship,
> till
> > 1984.
> >
> > Rajiv Gandhi married Sonia Maino in 1968. Under
> India's citizenship
> > laws (not framed by Hindu communalists but
> Congress secularists in
> > the 1950s), she was entitled to seek Indian
> citizenship five years
> > after her marriage, that is in 1974. But she chose
> not to register
> > as an Indian citizen for the next 10 years. That
> could not have
> been
> > a casual oversight. Indeed, two incidents during
> these
=== message truncated ===


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Dear friends,
It seems you  have forgotten the fact that Pawar's
dream of becoming the prime minister leads him, to
make noises of sonia's lineage, or nationality. his
ambitions , specially at this age, is leading to a lot
of dirty politics, not only him, but the whole lot of
the opposition , who should join hands to make a
strong ruling party,  n the question of who shud be
the prime minister , could be decided on the strength
of each party after the finale outcome...... but its
time these oldies stop bullshitting. after all .....
if a hindu woman married a muslim or vice versa, wont
the lady follow her husbands religion n be called so,
then what's the noise about nationality........ and
even if L K Advani is a hindu.,, but born in
Pakistan..... then how can someone born in the
territory of our deadliest enemy be ever our - Dy
Prime Minister . or an Apunwala be our president.....
stop this shit, n get to do things the right way.



Subject: Bleddy Indians



>
> YOU say that our government is inefficient.
>
> YOU say that our laws are too old.
>
> YOU say that the municipality does not pick up the
garbage.
>
> YOU say that the phones don't work, the railways are
a joke, the airline
is
> the worst in the world, and mails never reach their
destination.
>
> YOU say that our country has been fed to the dogs
and is the absolute
pits.
>
> YOU say, say and say.
>
> What do YOU do about it?
>
> Take a person on his way to Singapore.
> Give him a name - YOURS.
> Give him a face - YOURS.
>
> YOU walk out of the airport and you are at your
International best. In
> Singapore you don't throw cigarette butts on the
roads or eat in the
stores.
> YOU are as proud of their Underground Links as they
are. You pay $5
(approx.
> Rs.60) to drive through Orchard Road (equivalent of
Mahim Causeway or
Pedder
> Road)between 5 PM and 8 PM. YOU comeback to the
parking lot to punch your
> parking ticket if you have over stayed in a
restaurant or a shopping mall
> irrespective of your status identity.
>
> In Singapore you don't say anything, DO YOU?
>
> YOU wouldn't dare to eat in public during Ramadan,
in Dubai.
>
> YOU would not dare to go out without your head
covered in Jeddah.
>
> YOU would not dare to buy an employee of the
telephone exchange in London
at
> 10 pounds (Rs.650) a month to, "see to it that my
STD and ISD calls are
> billed to someone else."
>
> YOU would not dare to speed beyond 55 mph (88kmph)in
Washington and then
> tell the traffic cop, "Jaanta hai sala main kaun
hoon (Do you know who I
> am?). I am so and so's son. Take your two bucks and
get lost."
>
> YOU wouldn't chuck an empty coconut shell anywhere
other than the garbage
> pail on the beaches in Australia and New Zealand.
>
> Why don't YOU spit Paan on the streets of Tokyo?
>
> Why don't YOU use examination jockeys or buy fake
certificates in Boston?
>
> We are still talking of the same YOU.  YOU who can
respect and conform to
a
> foreign system in other countries but cannot in your
own. You who will
throw
> papers and cigarettes on the road the moment you
touch Indian ground. If
you
> can be an involved and appreciative citizen in an
alien country why can't
> you be the same here in India?
>
> Once in an interview, the famous Ex-municipal
commissioner of Bombay
> Mr.Tinaikar had a point to make. "Rich people's dogs
are walked on the
> streets to leave their affluent droppings all over
the place," he said.
"And
> then the same people turn around to criticize and
blame the authorities
for
> inefficiency and dirty pavements. What do they
expect the officers to do?
Go
> down with a broom every time their dog feels the
pressure in his bowels?
In
> America every dog owner has to clean up after his
pet has done the job.
Same
> in Japan. Will the Indian citizen do that here?"
He's right.
>
> We go to the polls to choose a government and after
that forfeit all
> responsibility. We sit back wanting to be pampered
and expect the
government
> to do everything for us whilst our contribution is
totally negative. We
> expect the government to clean up but we are not
going to stop chucking
> garbage all over the place nor are we going to stoop
to pick up a stray
> piece of paper and throw it in the bin. We expect
the railways to provide
> clean bathrooms but we are not going to learn the
proper use of bathrooms.
> We want Indian Airlines and Air India to provide the
best of food and
> toiletries but we are not going to stop pilfering at
the least
opportunity.
> This applies even to the staff who are known not to
pass on the service to
> the public.
>
> When it comes to burning social issues like those
related to women, dowry,
> girl child and others, we make loud drawing room
protestations and
continue
> to do the reverse at home. Our excuse? "It's the
whole system which has to
> change, how will it matter if I alone forego my
son's rights to a dowry."
>
> So who's going to change the system? What does a
system consist of? Very
> conveniently for us it consists of our neighbors,
other households, other
> cities, other communities and the government. But
definitely not me and
YOU.
>
> When it comes to us actually making a positive
contribution to the system
we
> lock ourselves along with our families into a safe
cocoon and look into &
> work miracles for us with a majestic sweep of his
hand. Or we leave the
> country and run away. Like lazy cowards hounded by
our fears we run to
> America to bask in their glory and praise their
system. When New York
> becomes insecure we run to England. When England
experiences unemployment,
> we take the next flight out to the Gulf. When the
Gulf is war struck, we
> demand to be rescued and brought home by the Indian
government.
>
> Everybody is out to abuse and rape the country.
Nobody thinks of feeding
the
> system. Our conscience is mortgaged to money.
>
> Dear Indians, The article is highly thought
inductive, calls for a great
> deal of introspection and pricks one's conscience
too....
>
> I am echoing J.F. Kennedy's words to his fellow
Americans to relate to
> Indians.....
>
> "ASK WHAT WE CAN DO FOR INDIA AND DO WHAT HAS TO BE
DONE TO MAKE INDIA
WHAT
> AMERICA AND OTHER WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE TODAY" Lets
do what India needs
from
> us.
>
> Forward this mail to each Indian for a change
instead of sending Jokes or
> junk mails. Thank you.
>



--- Vijay Mavani <vijay_mavani888@...> wrote:
>  --- Bharatkumar <bharatkumar007@...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------Please Note
> === message truncated ===


__________________________________
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Dear friends,
It seems you  have forgotten the fact that Pawar's
dream of becoming the prime minister leads him, to
make noises of sonia's lineage, or nationality. his
ambitions , specially at this age, is leading to a lot
of dirty politics, not only him, but the whole lot of
the opposition , who should join hands to make a
strong ruling party,  n the question of who shud be
the prime minister , could be decided on the strength
of each party after the finale outcome...... but its
time these oldies stop bullshitting. after all .....
if a hindu woman married a muslim or vice versa, wont
the lady follow her husbands religion n be called so,
then what's the noise about nationality........ and
even if L K Advani is a hindu.,, but born in
Pakistan..... then how can someone born in the
territory of our deadliest enemy be ever our - Dy
Prime Minister . or an Apunwala be our president.....
stop this shit, n get to do things the right way.



Subject: Bleddy Indians



>
> YOU say that our government is inefficient.
>
> YOU say that our laws are too old.
>
> YOU say that the municipality does not pick up the
garbage.
>
> YOU say that the phones don't work, the railways are
a joke, the airline
is
> the worst in the world, and mails never reach their
destination.
>
> YOU say that our country has been fed to the dogs
and is the absolute
pits.
>
> YOU say, say and say.
>
> What do YOU do about it?
>
> Take a person on his way to Singapore.
> Give him a name - YOURS.
> Give him a face - YOURS.
>
> YOU walk out of the airport and you are at your
International best. In
> Singapore you don't throw cigarette butts on the
roads or eat in the
stores.
> YOU are as proud of their Underground Links as they
are. You pay $5
(approx.
> Rs.60) to drive through Orchard Road (equivalent of
Mahim Causeway or
Pedder
> Road)between 5 PM and 8 PM. YOU comeback to the
parking lot to punch your
> parking ticket if you have over stayed in a
restaurant or a shopping mall
> irrespective of your status identity.
>
> In Singapore you don't say anything, DO YOU?
>
> YOU wouldn't dare to eat in public during Ramadan,
in Dubai.
>
> YOU would not dare to go out without your head
covered in Jeddah.
>
> YOU would not dare to buy an employee of the
telephone exchange in London
at
> 10 pounds (Rs.650) a month to, "see to it that my
STD and ISD calls are
> billed to someone else."
>
> YOU would not dare to speed beyond 55 mph (88kmph)in
Washington and then
> tell the traffic cop, "Jaanta hai sala main kaun
hoon (Do you know who I
> am?). I am so and so's son. Take your two bucks and
get lost."
>
> YOU wouldn't chuck an empty coconut shell anywhere
other than the garbage
> pail on the beaches in Australia and New Zealand.
>
> Why don't YOU spit Paan on the streets of Tokyo?
>
> Why don't YOU use examination jockeys or buy fake
certificates in Boston?
>
> We are still talking of the same YOU.  YOU who can
respect and conform to
a
> foreign system in other countries but cannot in your
own. You who will
throw
> papers and cigarettes on the road the moment you
touch Indian ground. If
you
> can be an involved and appreciative citizen in an
alien country why can't
> you be the same here in India?
>
> Once in an interview, the famous Ex-municipal
commissioner of Bombay
> Mr.Tinaikar had a point to make. "Rich people's dogs
are walked on the
> streets to leave their affluent droppings all over
the place," he said.
"And
> then the same people turn around to criticize and
blame the authorities
for
> inefficiency and dirty pavements. What do they
expect the officers to do?
Go
> down with a broom every time their dog feels the
pressure in his bowels?
In
> America every dog owner has to clean up after his
pet has done the job.
Same
> in Japan. Will the Indian citizen do that here?"
He's right.
>
> We go to the polls to choose a government and after
that forfeit all
> responsibility. We sit back wanting to be pampered
and expect the
government
> to do everything for us whilst our contribution is
totally negative. We
> expect the government to clean up but we are not
going to stop chucking
> garbage all over the place nor are we going to stoop
to pick up a stray
> piece of paper and throw it in the bin. We expect
the railways to provide
> clean bathrooms but we are not going to learn the
proper use of bathrooms.
> We want Indian Airlines and Air India to provide the
best of food and
> toiletries but we are not going to stop pilfering at
the least
opportunity.
> This applies even to the staff who are known not to
pass on the service to
> the public.
>
> When it comes to burning social issues like those
related to women, dowry,
> girl child and others, we make loud drawing room
protestations and
continue
> to do the reverse at home. Our excuse? "It's the
whole system which has to
> change, how will it matter if I alone forego my
son's rights to a dowry."
>
> So who's going to change the system? What does a
system consist of? Very
> conveniently for us it consists of our neighbors,
other households, other
> cities, other communities and the government. But
definitely not me and
YOU.
>
> When it comes to us actually making a positive
contribution to the system
we
> lock ourselves along with our families into a safe
cocoon and look into &
> work miracles for us with a majestic sweep of his
hand. Or we leave the
> country and run away. Like lazy cowards hounded by
our fears we run to
> America to bask in their glory and praise their
system. When New York
> becomes insecure we run to England. When England
experiences unemployment,
> we take the next flight out to the Gulf. When the
Gulf is war struck, we
> demand to be rescued and brought home by the Indian
government.
>
> Everybody is out to abuse and rape the country.
Nobody thinks of feeding
the
> system. Our conscience is mortgaged to money.
>
> Dear Indians, The article is highly thought
inductive, calls for a great
> deal of introspection and pricks one's conscience
too....
>
> I am echoing J.F. Kennedy's words to his fellow
Americans to relate to
> Indians.....
>
> "ASK WHAT WE CAN DO FOR INDIA AND DO WHAT HAS TO BE
DONE TO MAKE INDIA
WHAT
> AMERICA AND OTHER WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE TODAY" Lets
do what India needs
from
> us.
>
> Forward this mail to each Indian for a change
instead of sending Jokes or
> junk mails. Thank you.
>



--- Vijay Mavani <vijay_mavani888@...> wrote:
>  --- Bharatkumar <bharatkumar007@...> wrote:
> ---------------------------------Please Note
> === message truncated ===


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--- Bharatkumar <bharatkumar007@...> wrote:
---------------------------------Please Note Mr.Vijay
Mavani's REPLY just following you message below:22-07)
_______________________________________________________
Bhopal, July 19: Claiming that many "disillusioned"
Congressmen in
Madhya Pradesh were eager to join his party, NCP
supremo Sharad
Pawar today said he was striving for an alternative to
the Congress
and BJP in the state.

"Some old friends, including former Congress MPs and
MLAs, are
thinking of joining NCP as they are unhappy with the
performance of
their party government in the state due to utter
neglect of the
development process," he told reporters here.

"They find our party as an effective alternative," he
said, but
added, "Nothing has been finalised so far regarding
their possible
entry into the NCP."

On Chhattisgarh, Pawar said NCP would contest all the
assembly seats
on its own without entering into any electoral
alliances with other
parties.

Claiming that his party had emerged as an important
political force
in the state under the leadership of V C Shukla, Pawar
said people's
response is "highly encouraging".

Pawar, who is here for the state level conference of
his party, said
though Congress and BJP are the main political forces
in Madhya
Pradesh, NCP has also gathered some support base and
preparation is
on for the formation a morcha in order to provide
another viable
alternative.

In Madhya Pradesh too, NCP has substantially improved
its support
base despite several limitations, he said, adding the
party is
likely to field candidates for 40-50 seats in the
state with focus
on Malwa, Bundelkhand, Mahakoshala regions.

Pawar claimed people want change in Madhya Pradesh as
they feel
state government has neglected key sectors like power,
irrigation,
roads, agriculture, food processing.
_______________________________________________________
BharatKumar S Bhandary        REPLY dt. July 22, 2003
Nationalist Congress Party, Mumbai.      (19-45Hrs),

My dear Bharat Kumar,

Yourregular e-mail messageand the other one quoting
Pawar Saheb"s message as delivered in Bhopal, quoted
hereabove, are indeed very positive & encouraging and
"right on the spot" news for NCP's innediate & distant
future!

May I add a few more relevant items as follows, which
have occured to me and I feel prompted to share it
with NCP's intelligentia including with you
on"one-to-one" basis!

1.An astute politician's (for that matter,more likely
for a"born-Leader")main qualifications, are
a) decisiveness and B) far-sightedness, both of which
have been boldly displayed time & again by great
political leaders all over the world!Mr. Sharad Pawar,
(with the moral support of Mr. Purna Sangma & Mr.Tariq
Anwar) , proved "his astute "Leadership" and also his
decisiveness and far-sightedness by parting with th
Congress on "foreign-origin"ground of Ms.Sonia Gandhi.
about 4 years ago, and just at the opoortune &
appropriate time again after 4 years and the most
opportune & appropriate time took amiled U-turn
through
a NCP Party-Spokesman, his fundamental ground, as one
which could be ignored tomporarily because of going
ahead with a more important "priority" of forming an
United seular front(which has been already formed)but
this time, to rope in the Cingress, eo ensure the
Secular Frint's 300-Plus seats to throw out the
communal-Bjp Govt. out of power in the forthcoming
general elections!
This has been his prudent move, just because for all
the major/minor Politicians(including
Congress-members) of all the priorities for one & all
aspiring
to come to any sort of "Power-position at the Centre"
whether it would be more important "priority" is to
come to Power by winning the election, which only such

"United Secular Platform"(which Pawar Saheb is
striving to achieve)can possible achieve, that to
stick indefinitely to Ms.Sonia's Leadership(now
getting,widely exposed to the risks & limitations to
both the Politicians in Congress but also to the
masses of the Indian electorate!Therefore, the
leasership issue could obviously be taken up at an
appropriate stage at a later date!

I feel, quite confident that Pawar Saheb's decisive &
far-sighted moves,(both 4 years ago and today, which
he ought to be knowing the day he went for his
previous bold step 4 years ago!) would soon prove to
astute, diplomatic and mist succesful political
decisions, even to baffle most of the leading & mass
level congress loyalists, whether to respond to his
call and choose to take a more positive & possible
chance of re- gaining the "Power" after the coming
elections OR cintinue to be on the Band-wagon of
Ms.Sonia Gandhi & stick to her Congress-Leadership,
whose major"risks" & "limitations" are getting
gradually but surely & steadily "exposed", not only to
the Congress-members & other Secular minded
Politicians
but also to the major part of the Countr's electorate!


The developments of senior & junior Politicians from
all the secular, regional parties and the Congress in
particular, will very soon, and progressively decide
in favour of consolidating the "New United Secular
Front" to first aim at snatching the "Power at the
Centre" from the hands of BJP/NDA and communal minded
Politicians, regardless of their "achievements". if
any
and Sonia Gandhi/or No Sonia Gandhi as a Leader, this
major, far sighted (4 year ago)step, at "the-then"
moment,Pawar Saheb, ought ti be knowing exactly, when
to take a mild "U-turn", through a Party-Spokesman,
and from there onward to kepp attacking right into the
inside camp of both Congress and the ruling BJP, some
of whom,(o.e. from bothe Parties), have already openly
come out with a "dispomatic" statements & indications,
during the last week or so and Publicly or through the
press,  by acknowledging Mr. Sharad Pawar,as far
better
  more matured and a veteran Stalwart, a fighter and a
well-known, well acknowledged Leader, not only of a
national party like NCP, but also very much likely of
the "United Secular Front" and ultimately, if success
come his way, it wouldbe him and only"him" who will
deserve and get for himself the highest post in the
Country's Govt. at the national level!

I can therefore forsee today that by all political
permutations , combinations and calculations as wellas
looking at the brief plitical history of our Country,
after 1947, it would now be nothing less than a
"miracle", if we don't get to see Mr.Sharad Pawar,
M.P.President NCP, today to be leading next year
the Indian nation after the next general election!

With every sigle day bringing him closer and closer
towards that "destiny" and taking place of every
political devlopment, hereafter, step-by-step, Pawar
Saheb, is going to be the "ultimate choice" in the
very
near future,of the "unanimous Leader" of the "United
Secular Front" most likely & perhaps almost definitely
with the most members(Including the Senior ones)opting
for the alliance with this newly formed "Secular
Front"
more that the "getting weaker & weaker Mass opinion
about the possible or likely Ms.Sonia Gandhi, promoted
or voted towards a "National Leadership"!

only major effort to expedite it & making sure of it
is to mobilise & educate as many Political seniors &
juniors as possible, even on one-to-one basis, by an
intellectually, well experienced non-political PRO,to
take this task up exclusively & seriously, with
definite plans & targets, to be achieved day to day
from here-onwards, before it is too late!

In case, you & other NCP leaders, feel my
"candidature'
worthwhile,(of couse after our meetings & discussions)
to designate me as ("National Co-Ordinator, NCP), I am

prepared to volunteer my services in favour of Pawar
Saheb & NCP to Lead the way to defeat BJP Govt. hands
down in the very next general elections, and the only
way possible is the one which Mr.Sharad Pawar had lead

the United Secular Front(Platform) into existence and
it now appears to be only a mater of time that if
pursued properly and with appropriate logic &
foresight most of the Congressmen,will go ahead to
offer their alliance to consolidate the new "Secular
Front" rather than "stick to" or keep continuing with
acknowledging the Leadership of Ms.Sonia Gandhi as
their Leader with elements of risk developing fast
from all corners against "her-Leadership" being voted
to Power as the National Leadership by the very
intelli
gent "electorate" of our country having the experience
of voting by trial & error over last 50-55 years after
the country's Independence!!

In case, you can help me coordinate an informal
meeting with Pawar Saheb, on the basis of my views in
a personal-cum-official letter to you hereabove,I
would appreciate your kind efforts & cooperation.
Also,
could you possibly write to me on E-mail, the latest
& official E-mails of Mr.Sharad Pawar & Mr.Purna
Sangma
(or FAX Nos), so that , ifyou consider it so necessary
I may also send a formal request to them for an
appointment for an informal/formal meeting, at their
convenient time., date & Venue?

Looking forward to hear from you soon,

With good wishes & warm regards,

Sincerely,
Vijay Mavani
(Private Consultant, Int;l Trade & Finance, ECBS,
&JVS)
Tel: 91-22-242-10-6676(other than 4-0P.M. to 8-00P.M.)


________________________________________________________________________
Send free SMS using the Yahoo! Messenger. Go to
http://in.mobile.yahoo.com/new/pc/

Dear Mr Husain;

I am happy that you have commented upon this issue. The main purpose
of this group is to generate a debate about who we are as a Nation
and what is the defination of an "Indian" if I may use that word
solely to define our nationalism.

Sonia Gandhi's heritage is NOT a minor issue. Foreign born persons
have been associated with India in the past, Annie Beasant being a
prime example. But, while Annie Beasant honorably discharged her
duties as President of the then Indian National Congress, she never
tried to take over India.

Sonia Gandhi has no right moral, legal or otherwise to try to attain
a position for which she has zero qualifications. If widow-hood was
an easy passport to jobs, then the Widow of every Indian man who has
died in Government service should be given that man's job. Lets have
all the Widows of our brave Jawans and police officers start filling
those positions and taking over that jobs. I know that you will laugh
at this suggestion, because both you and I know that this is a
ludicrous idea. The Widows are not trained to do the jobs their
husbands did. Identically, Sonia Gandhi has no, repeat NO
qualifications to be the Prime Minister of India. Furthermore, and
more important is the fact that India is not the private kindgom of
the Gandhi family. The Gandhi family has been out of power for the
past five years and the whole Nation of India has changed. While I am
against the BJP for their religious proscecution of minorities and
their hateful behavious of segregation of Indian people; we have to
also accept the fact the their government did bring two things onto
the forefront; pride as a Nation and putting India on the worldmap as
the primary Info tech country.

Yes, we can be one People and One Nation. We can have a Nation that
can be defined as " Of the People, by the People and For the People"
and for this we do not need a unqualified and illitrate Italian
hustler.

Sardar Sanjay Matkar.

--- In nationalistcongressparty@..., Shabab Husain
<v2chat4ever@y...> wrote:
> I dont know but why the Sonia issue, that she was not born in India
is so important.What is important is that she had married an Indian
and so is she now an Indian Bahu.What is important is that all the
secular parties need to get together on one front to fight against
those communal parties who are all hell bent on dividing the counytry
on basis of religion.The issue of who will be the next Prime Minister
can be sorted out with leaders of all the secular parties choosing a
leader who is Indian by birth and Secular and who would be acceptable
to all.There is no dearth of such leaders.Pawar,Mulayam,Laloo,Jyoti
Basu.....the list is too long.But a solution is possible.So lets
forget abt minor issues and concentrate more on issues which are
important for the Nation.
> Hope the message reaches the heart.
> S.Husain.
>
> Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> Where was Sonia when India was at war? And after Mrs Gandhi lost in
> 1977?
>
>
> It was interesting to read Professor Ashutosh Varshney's thoughts
on
> the question whether Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is Indian. And it was
> amusing to note how ill-informed he is about citizenship laws, as
> well as electoral laws, of not only India but also the United
States
> of America. Above all, it was surprising that an associate
professor
> at Columbia University should double up as a propagandist, that too
> of such low calibre.
>
> Whether or not Sonia Gandhi nee Maino should be entrusted with the
> responsibility of heading the government of India has nothing to do
> with "secular nationalism" or "Hindu nationalism." It has nothing
to
> do with Veer Savarkar's definition of a Hindu, which Professor
> Varshney has quoted. It has nothing to do with India's alleged
> pluralist, multi-ethnic identity. It has nothing to do with the
fact
> that she owes allegiance to the Vatican -- an allegiance that
> transcends her claimed allegiance to India. It has nothing to do
> with the patriotism of indigenous Indians (especially Sikhs and
> Bengali Hindus) which Professor Varshney has questioned.
>
> It has everything to do with the fact that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino
> was born an Italian and that there exists no public knowledge,
leave
> alone evidence, of the fact that she has voluntarily repudiated her
> Italian citizenship. I shall come to this point later. First, the
> point about the ethics of entrusting her with the responsibility of
> heading the Government of India.
>
> Addressing a rally during the general election of 1998, Sonia
Gandhi
> nee Maino had said, "I am an Indian till my last breath." A noble
> thought, indeed. But the mere expression of that thought does not
> erase uncomfortable facts which must now necessarily be resurrected
> because she is no longer a private person beyond public scrutiny.
> The uncomfortable questions that arise from these facts need to be
> dealt with by the President of the Republic of India before he
> decides whether or not she can be entrusted with India's most
> coveted public office.
>
> Sonia Gandhi nee Maino felt the need to proclaim that she is an
> Indian till her last breath only after she entered the political
> arena and needed to establish her credentials with the unwashed,
but
> fiercely patriotic, masses of middle India. What she did not tell
> them was that she had retained her Italian passport and Italian
> citizenship, not feeling the need to accept Indian citizenship,
till
> 1984.
>
> Rajiv Gandhi married Sonia Maino in 1968. Under India's citizenship
> laws (not framed by Hindu communalists but Congress secularists in
> the 1950s), she was entitled to seek Indian citizenship five years
> after her marriage, that is in 1974. But she chose not to register
> as an Indian citizen for the next 10 years. That could not have
been
> a casual oversight. Indeed, two incidents during these 10 years
> suggest that it was a considered decision not to repudiate her
> Italian citizenship.
>
> Let us then go back to those 10 years. During the India-Pakistan
war
> of 1971 (coinciding with the liberation struggle of Bangladesh),
> under emergency provisions, the leave applications of all Indian
> Airlines pilots were cancelled so that they could be used for
> providing logistical support. The only exception was Rajiv Gandhi,
a
> full-time pilot with Indian Airlines. Sonia Gandhi nee Maino, who
> now claims that she is an Indian till her last breath, flew off to
> Italy with Rajiv Gandhi and their two children.
>
> While indigenous Indians serving as pilots with Indian Airlines
> stood by to serve their motherland, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino and
> family remained in the more congenial surroundings of Italy during
> the entire duration of the war, returning only after General Niazi
> had signed the surrender papers.
>
> The other incident, once again resurrected from those 10 years.
> After news came in that the Congress and Indira Gandhi had been
> defeated in 1977, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino packed an overnighter and,
> with husband and children in tow, took refuge in the Italian
embassy
> in New Delhi's Chanakyapuri. It took the combined efforts of Indira
> Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi and the other 'bahu' of the household, Maneka
> Gandhi nee Anand, to convince her to return to the Gandhi home.
>
> Therefore, the record shows that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino who now
> aspires to be the prime minister of India chose not to be an Indian
> till it was pointed out that it would be awkward for Rajiv Gandhi,
> as prime minister, to have an Italian spouse. In other words, she
> has been a citizen of India for a mere 15 years -- the exact date
of
> her conversion from Italian to Indian has never been disclosed to
> the people of India whom she now wants to rule. The record also
> shows that she fled from India in wartime. The record also shows
> that she was perfectly eager to desert her mother-in-law, indeed
> the 'dynasty' that she now flaunts as her asset, in her hour of
> need.
>
> Now, the point about her citizenship and whether or not that
> entitles her to the prime minister of India's office. Seen from a
> narrow, legal perspective, there is nothing that prevents Sonia
> Gandhi nee Maino from assuming charge as prime minister of India.
> The Constitution of India, unlike the constitutions of many Western
> and Asian countries, puts no such bar on her. Unlike the USA,
> Finland, Germany, Thailand or Singapore, India does not insist that
> the aspirant for the top job should be a natural born citizen.
>
> For a moment, let us assume that instead of Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia
> Maino had married an American. She could not have aspired for,
> forget her staking claim to, the American presidency. Article II,
> Section 1(5) of the American constitution would have debarred her
> from that office. It says, 'No person, except a natural born
> citizen, or a citizen of the USA at the time of the adoption of
this
> Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President…'
>
> No such provision exists in the Constitution of India -- not
because
> it was framed by "secular nationalists" but because no member of
the
> Constituent Assembly could have ever imagined that 50 years after
> Independence, a foreigner would be in the race for the prime
> minister's job. If they had, they would have surely incorporated
> necessary safeguards. Since they did not do so, Sonia Gandhi nee
> Maino is perfectly eligible to apply for, and secure, the prime
> minister of India's job.
>
> But, should the President of India merely go by the law book and
not
> take note of implications that could come to affect the very
> functioning of the prime minister's office?
>
> Under the Indian Citizenship Act, there are three categories of
> Indian citizens -- citizens by birth, citizens by registration and
> citizens by naturalisation. I am an Indian citizen, so is Sonia
> Gandhi nee Maino. But I am an Indian citizen by birth, which means
> nobody can deprive me of my citizenship. On the other hand, Sonia
> Gandhi nee Maino is a citizen by registration, which means that
> under Indian laws, her citizenship, like that of those who are
> citizens by naturalisation, can be taken away and she can be
> deported.
>
> Sonia Gandhi nee Maino might well claim that she is an Indian till
> her last breath, but that does not mitigate the conditions and
> restrictions governing her Indian citizenship. Her citizenship by
> registration can be taken away under Section 10 of the Citizenship
> Act if the Government of India is satisfied that (a) the
> registration was obtained by means of fraud or concealment of
> material facts; (b) the registered citizen is disloyal or
> disaffected towards the Constitution of India; and, (c) the
> registered citizen raded or communicated with an enemy during war.
>
> What if, after assuming office, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is held
> guilty of any or all these charges by a court? Would it not tarnish
> the office she aspires for? And would she be comfortable in office,
> constantly concerned about the durability of her citizenship?
>
> There are other related issues that must impinge on the President
of
> India's mind when he sits down to work out who is best placed to
> take charge as the next prime minister. One of them is the fact
that
> under Italian law, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino continues to be an
Italian
> citizen. That is, provided she has not voluntarily repudiated her
> citizenship by birth in writing. There is no public evidence to
> demonstrate that she has done so; therefore, it must be assumed
that
> she enjoys dual citizenship under Italian law (Indian law does not
> permit it) and that she continues to have access to an Italian
> passport. It may sound frivolous, but she is as much eligible to
> become the prime minister of Italy as she is to become the prime
> minister of India.
>
> A last point. The constitution of the USA demands that an applicant
> for American citizenship must be proficient in English, loyal to
the
> USA and have basic knowledge of the constitution, the country's
> history and system of government.
>
> If only the Constitution of India had similar guidelines, the
> indigenous people of India would have been spared the ignominy of
> being ruled by a person of foreign origin. For, Sonia Gandhi nee
> Maino is proficient in no Indian language, including English; her
> loyalty to India is all of 15 years old; her knowledge of the
> Constitution of India is non-existent; she would fail the most
> elementary history test; and, beyond the fact that she wants to be
> the prime minister of India, it is doubtful whether she has an
> inkling about the Government of India.
>
> After a new prime minister is sworn in, the Press Information
Bureau
> publishes a pamphlet providing the biographical details of the
> incumbent. Till now, nobody has ever looked at the pamphlet because
> all the individuals who have held the prime minister's office, have
> led a public life -- their minutest biographical details have been
> public knowledge for decades if not more.
>
> If Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is sworn in as prime minister of India,
> for the first time the PIB's pamphlet will be eagerly read. After
> all, India does not even know in which city was she born, what are
> the names of her parents, what school she went to, what language
she
> is most comfortable with, how many elections she has won and lost,
> where all has she represented India, what is her favourite dish,
who
> is her favourite Bollywood playback singer, who is her favourite
> poet, etc. The usual trivia that makes up a sarkari prime
> ministerial bio-data.
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> nationalistcongressparty-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I dont know but why the Sonia issue, that she was not born in India is so
important.What is important is that she had married an Indian and so is she now
an Indian Bahu.What is important is that all the secular parties need to get
together on one front to fight against those communal parties who are all hell
bent on dividing the counytry on basis of religion.The issue of who will be the
next Prime Minister can be sorted out with leaders of all the secular parties
choosing a leader who is Indian by birth and Secular and who would be acceptable
to all.There is no dearth of such leaders.Pawar,Mulayam,Laloo,Jyoti Basu.....the
list is too long.But a solution is possible.So lets forget abt minor issues and
concentrate more on issues which are important for the Nation.
Hope the message reaches the heart.
S.Husain.

Sanjay <kozak_vodka@...> wrote:
Where was Sonia when India was at war? And after Mrs Gandhi lost in
1977?


It was interesting to read Professor Ashutosh Varshney's thoughts on
the question whether Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is Indian. And it was
amusing to note how ill-informed he is about citizenship laws, as
well as electoral laws, of not only India but also the United States
of America. Above all, it was surprising that an associate professor
at Columbia University should double up as a propagandist, that too
of such low calibre.

Whether or not Sonia Gandhi nee Maino should be entrusted with the
responsibility of heading the government of India has nothing to do
with "secular nationalism" or "Hindu nationalism." It has nothing to
do with Veer Savarkar's definition of a Hindu, which Professor
Varshney has quoted. It has nothing to do with India's alleged
pluralist, multi-ethnic identity. It has nothing to do with the fact
that she owes allegiance to the Vatican -- an allegiance that
transcends her claimed allegiance to India. It has nothing to do
with the patriotism of indigenous Indians (especially Sikhs and
Bengali Hindus) which Professor Varshney has questioned.

It has everything to do with the fact that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino
was born an Italian and that there exists no public knowledge, leave
alone evidence, of the fact that she has voluntarily repudiated her
Italian citizenship. I shall come to this point later. First, the
point about the ethics of entrusting her with the responsibility of
heading the Government of India.

Addressing a rally during the general election of 1998, Sonia Gandhi
nee Maino had said, "I am an Indian till my last breath." A noble
thought, indeed. But the mere expression of that thought does not
erase uncomfortable facts which must now necessarily be resurrected
because she is no longer a private person beyond public scrutiny.
The uncomfortable questions that arise from these facts need to be
dealt with by the President of the Republic of India before he
decides whether or not she can be entrusted with India's most
coveted public office.

Sonia Gandhi nee Maino felt the need to proclaim that she is an
Indian till her last breath only after she entered the political
arena and needed to establish her credentials with the unwashed, but
fiercely patriotic, masses of middle India. What she did not tell
them was that she had retained her Italian passport and Italian
citizenship, not feeling the need to accept Indian citizenship, till
1984.

Rajiv Gandhi married Sonia Maino in 1968. Under India's citizenship
laws (not framed by Hindu communalists but Congress secularists in
the 1950s), she was entitled to seek Indian citizenship five years
after her marriage, that is in 1974. But she chose not to register
as an Indian citizen for the next 10 years. That could not have been
a casual oversight. Indeed, two incidents during these 10 years
suggest that it was a considered decision not to repudiate her
Italian citizenship.

Let us then go back to those 10 years. During the India-Pakistan war
of 1971 (coinciding with the liberation struggle of Bangladesh),
under emergency provisions, the leave applications of all Indian
Airlines pilots were cancelled so that they could be used for
providing logistical support. The only exception was Rajiv Gandhi, a
full-time pilot with Indian Airlines. Sonia Gandhi nee Maino, who
now claims that she is an Indian till her last breath, flew off to
Italy with Rajiv Gandhi and their two children.

While indigenous Indians serving as pilots with Indian Airlines
stood by to serve their motherland, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino and
family remained in the more congenial surroundings of Italy during
the entire duration of the war, returning only after General Niazi
had signed the surrender papers.

The other incident, once again resurrected from those 10 years.
After news came in that the Congress and Indira Gandhi had been
defeated in 1977, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino packed an overnighter and,
with husband and children in tow, took refuge in the Italian embassy
in New Delhi's Chanakyapuri. It took the combined efforts of Indira
Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi and the other 'bahu' of the household, Maneka
Gandhi nee Anand, to convince her to return to the Gandhi home.

Therefore, the record shows that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino who now
aspires to be the prime minister of India chose not to be an Indian
till it was pointed out that it would be awkward for Rajiv Gandhi,
as prime minister, to have an Italian spouse. In other words, she
has been a citizen of India for a mere 15 years -- the exact date of
her conversion from Italian to Indian has never been disclosed to
the people of India whom she now wants to rule. The record also
shows that she fled from India in wartime. The record also shows
that she was perfectly eager to desert her mother-in-law, indeed
the 'dynasty' that she now flaunts as her asset, in her hour of
need.

Now, the point about her citizenship and whether or not that
entitles her to the prime minister of India's office. Seen from a
narrow, legal perspective, there is nothing that prevents Sonia
Gandhi nee Maino from assuming charge as prime minister of India.
The Constitution of India, unlike the constitutions of many Western
and Asian countries, puts no such bar on her. Unlike the USA,
Finland, Germany, Thailand or Singapore, India does not insist that
the aspirant for the top job should be a natural born citizen.

For a moment, let us assume that instead of Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia
Maino had married an American. She could not have aspired for,
forget her staking claim to, the American presidency. Article II,
Section 1(5) of the American constitution would have debarred her
from that office. It says, 'No person, except a natural born
citizen, or a citizen of the USA at the time of the adoption of this
Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President…'

No such provision exists in the Constitution of India -- not because
it was framed by "secular nationalists" but because no member of the
Constituent Assembly could have ever imagined that 50 years after
Independence, a foreigner would be in the race for the prime
minister's job. If they had, they would have surely incorporated
necessary safeguards. Since they did not do so, Sonia Gandhi nee
Maino is perfectly eligible to apply for, and secure, the prime
minister of India's job.

But, should the President of India merely go by the law book and not
take note of implications that could come to affect the very
functioning of the prime minister's office?

Under the Indian Citizenship Act, there are three categories of
Indian citizens -- citizens by birth, citizens by registration and
citizens by naturalisation. I am an Indian citizen, so is Sonia
Gandhi nee Maino. But I am an Indian citizen by birth, which means
nobody can deprive me of my citizenship. On the other hand, Sonia
Gandhi nee Maino is a citizen by registration, which means that
under Indian laws, her citizenship, like that of those who are
citizens by naturalisation, can be taken away and she can be
deported.

Sonia Gandhi nee Maino might well claim that she is an Indian till
her last breath, but that does not mitigate the conditions and
restrictions governing her Indian citizenship. Her citizenship by
registration can be taken away under Section 10 of the Citizenship
Act if the Government of India is satisfied that (a) the
registration was obtained by means of fraud or concealment of
material facts; (b) the registered citizen is disloyal or
disaffected towards the Constitution of India; and, (c) the
registered citizen raded or communicated with an enemy during war.

What if, after assuming office, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is held
guilty of any or all these charges by a court? Would it not tarnish
the office she aspires for? And would she be comfortable in office,
constantly concerned about the durability of her citizenship?

There are other related issues that must impinge on the President of
India's mind when he sits down to work out who is best placed to
take charge as the next prime minister. One of them is the fact that
under Italian law, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino continues to be an Italian
citizen. That is, provided she has not voluntarily repudiated her
citizenship by birth in writing. There is no public evidence to
demonstrate that she has done so; therefore, it must be assumed that
she enjoys dual citizenship under Italian law (Indian law does not
permit it) and that she continues to have access to an Italian
passport. It may sound frivolous, but she is as much eligible to
become the prime minister of Italy as she is to become the prime
minister of India.

A last point. The constitution of the USA demands that an applicant
for American citizenship must be proficient in English, loyal to the
USA and have basic knowledge of the constitution, the country's
history and system of government.

If only the Constitution of India had similar guidelines, the
indigenous people of India would have been spared the ignominy of
being ruled by a person of foreign origin. For, Sonia Gandhi nee
Maino is proficient in no Indian language, including English; her
loyalty to India is all of 15 years old; her knowledge of the
Constitution of India is non-existent; she would fail the most
elementary history test; and, beyond the fact that she wants to be
the prime minister of India, it is doubtful whether she has an
inkling about the Government of India.

After a new prime minister is sworn in, the Press Information Bureau
publishes a pamphlet providing the biographical details of the
incumbent. Till now, nobody has ever looked at the pamphlet because
all the individuals who have held the prime minister's office, have
led a public life -- their minutest biographical details have been
public knowledge for decades if not more.

If Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is sworn in as prime minister of India,
for the first time the PIB's pamphlet will be eagerly read. After
all, India does not even know in which city was she born, what are
the names of her parents, what school she went to, what language she
is most comfortable with, how many elections she has won and lost,
where all has she represented India, what is her favourite dish, who
is her favourite Bollywood playback singer, who is her favourite
poet, etc. The usual trivia that makes up a sarkari prime
ministerial bio-data.




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bhopal, July 19: NCP president Sharad Pawar today demanded immediate
resignation of Deputy Prime Minister L K Advani "in view of the
alleged involvement" of the latter in the demolition of the disputed
strcture at Ayodhya and the CBI claims of `clinching evidence'
against him.

"In view of the serious charges against Advani in the case, he
(Advani) should keep himself away from the government," Pawar told
reporters here.

When asked specifically whether Union Human Resource Development
Minister Murli Manohar Joshi should also resign, pawar said, "What
else? .. BJP talks of values, morality and principles. It will be
proper for them to be away from office before the matter is
settled."

"The CBI, which has been investigating the case is under the Prime
Minister and it would not be appropriate for senior BJP leaders to
remain in the government," he said.

Besides Advani and Joshi, senior BJP leader Uma Bharati, former
Uttar Pradesh chief minister kalyan singh and four others have been
accused by the CBI in the case wherein CBI has cited statements of
several witnesses before the special court in Rae Bareli, claiming
that these leaders among others had raised provocative slogans
before the disputed structure in Ayodhya was pulled down on December
six, 1992.

BharatKumar S Bhandary(Bk)

Bhopal, July 19: Claiming that many "disillusioned" Congressmen in
Madhya Pradesh were eager to join his party, NCP supremo Sharad
Pawar today said he was striving for an alternative to the Congress
and BJP in the state.

"Some old friends, including former Congress MPs and MLAs, are
thinking of joining NCP as they are unhappy with the performance of
their party government in the state due to utter neglect of the
development process," he told reporters here.

"They find our party as an effective alternative," he said, but
added, "Nothing has been finalised so far regarding their possible
entry into the NCP."

On Chhattisgarh, Pawar said NCP would contest all the assembly seats
on its own without entering into any electoral alliances with other
parties.

Claiming that his party had emerged as an important political force
in the state under the leadership of V C Shukla, Pawar said people's
response is "highly encouraging".

Pawar, who is here for the state level conference of his party, said
though Congress and BJP are the main political forces in Madhya
Pradesh, NCP has also gathered some support base and preparation is
on for the formation a morcha in order to provide another viable
alternative.

In Madhya Pradesh too, NCP has substantially improved its support
base despite several limitations, he said, adding the party is
likely to field candidates for 40-50 seats in the state with focus
on Malwa, Bundelkhand, Mahakoshala regions.

Pawar claimed people want change in Madhya Pradesh as they feel
state government has neglected key sectors like power, irrigation,
roads, agriculture, food processing.

BharatKumar S Bhandary(Bk)

Where was Sonia when India was at war? And after Mrs Gandhi lost in
1977?


It was interesting to read Professor Ashutosh Varshney's thoughts on
the question whether Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is Indian. And it was
amusing to note how ill-informed he is about citizenship laws, as
well as electoral laws, of not only India but also the United States
of America. Above all, it was surprising that an associate professor
at Columbia University should double up as a propagandist, that too
of such low calibre.

Whether or not Sonia Gandhi nee Maino should be entrusted with the
responsibility of heading the government of India has nothing to do
with "secular nationalism" or "Hindu nationalism." It has nothing to
do with Veer Savarkar's definition of a Hindu, which Professor
Varshney has quoted. It has nothing to do with India's alleged
pluralist, multi-ethnic identity. It has nothing to do with the fact
that she owes allegiance to the Vatican -- an allegiance that
transcends her claimed allegiance to India. It has nothing to do
with the patriotism of indigenous Indians (especially Sikhs and
Bengali Hindus) which Professor Varshney has questioned.

It has everything to do with the fact that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino
was born an Italian and that there exists no public knowledge, leave
alone evidence, of the fact that she has voluntarily repudiated her
Italian citizenship. I shall come to this point later. First, the
point about the ethics of entrusting her with the responsibility of
heading the Government of India.

Addressing a rally during the general election of 1998, Sonia Gandhi
nee Maino had said, "I am an Indian till my last breath." A noble
thought, indeed. But the mere expression of that thought does not
erase uncomfortable facts which must now necessarily be resurrected
because she is no longer a private person beyond public scrutiny.
The uncomfortable questions that arise from these facts need to be
dealt with by the President of the Republic of India before he
decides whether or not she can be entrusted with India's most
coveted public office.

Sonia Gandhi nee Maino felt the need to proclaim that she is an
Indian till her last breath only after she entered the political
arena and needed to establish her credentials with the unwashed, but
fiercely patriotic, masses of middle India. What she did not tell
them was that she had retained her Italian passport and Italian
citizenship, not feeling the need to accept Indian citizenship, till
1984.

Rajiv Gandhi married Sonia Maino in 1968. Under India's citizenship
laws (not framed by Hindu communalists but Congress secularists in
the 1950s), she was entitled to seek Indian citizenship five years
after her marriage, that is in 1974. But she chose not to register
as an Indian citizen for the next 10 years. That could not have been
a casual oversight. Indeed, two incidents during these 10 years
suggest that it was a considered decision not to repudiate her
Italian citizenship.

Let us then go back to those 10 years. During the India-Pakistan war
of 1971 (coinciding with the liberation struggle of Bangladesh),
under emergency provisions, the leave applications of all Indian
Airlines pilots were cancelled so that they could be used for
providing logistical support. The only exception was Rajiv Gandhi, a
full-time pilot with Indian Airlines. Sonia Gandhi nee Maino, who
now claims that she is an Indian till her last breath, flew off to
Italy with Rajiv Gandhi and their two children.

While indigenous Indians serving as pilots with Indian Airlines
stood by to serve their motherland, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino and
family remained in the more congenial surroundings of Italy during
the entire duration of the war, returning only after General Niazi
had signed the surrender papers.

The other incident, once again resurrected from those 10 years.
After news came in that the Congress and Indira Gandhi had been
defeated in 1977, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino packed an overnighter and,
with husband and children in tow, took refuge in the Italian embassy
in New Delhi's Chanakyapuri. It took the combined efforts of Indira
Gandhi, Sanjay Gandhi and the other 'bahu' of the household, Maneka
Gandhi nee Anand, to convince her to return to the Gandhi home.

Therefore, the record shows that Sonia Gandhi nee Maino who now
aspires to be the prime minister of India chose not to be an Indian
till it was pointed out that it would be awkward for Rajiv Gandhi,
as prime minister, to have an Italian spouse. In other words, she
has been a citizen of India for a mere 15 years -- the exact date of
her conversion from Italian to Indian has never been disclosed to
the people of India whom she now wants to rule. The record also
shows that she fled from India in wartime. The record also shows
that she was perfectly eager to desert her mother-in-law, indeed
the 'dynasty' that she now flaunts as her asset, in her hour of
need.

Now, the point about her citizenship and whether or not that
entitles her to the prime minister of India's office. Seen from a
narrow, legal perspective, there is nothing that prevents Sonia
Gandhi nee Maino from assuming charge as prime minister of India.
The Constitution of India, unlike the constitutions of many Western
and Asian countries, puts no such bar on her. Unlike the USA,
Finland, Germany, Thailand or Singapore, India does not insist that
the aspirant for the top job should be a natural born citizen.

For a moment, let us assume that instead of Rajiv Gandhi, Sonia
Maino had married an American. She could not have aspired for,
forget her staking claim to, the American presidency. Article II,
Section 1(5) of the American constitution would have debarred her
from that office. It says, 'No person, except a natural born
citizen, or a citizen of the USA at the time of the adoption of this
Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President…'

No such provision exists in the Constitution of India -- not because
it was framed by "secular nationalists" but because no member of the
Constituent Assembly could have ever imagined that 50 years after
Independence, a foreigner would be in the race for the prime
minister's job. If they had, they would have surely incorporated
necessary safeguards. Since they did not do so, Sonia Gandhi nee
Maino is perfectly eligible to apply for, and secure, the prime
minister of India's job.

But, should the President of India merely go by the law book and not
take note of implications that could come to affect the very
functioning of the prime minister's office?

Under the Indian Citizenship Act, there are three categories of
Indian citizens -- citizens by birth, citizens by registration and
citizens by naturalisation. I am an Indian citizen, so is Sonia
Gandhi nee Maino. But I am an Indian citizen by birth, which means
nobody can deprive me of my citizenship. On the other hand, Sonia
Gandhi nee Maino is a citizen by registration, which means that
under Indian laws, her citizenship, like that of those who are
citizens by naturalisation, can be taken away and she can be
deported.

Sonia Gandhi nee Maino might well claim that she is an Indian till
her last breath, but that does not mitigate the conditions and
restrictions governing her Indian citizenship. Her citizenship by
registration can be taken away under Section 10 of the Citizenship
Act if the Government of India is satisfied that (a) the
registration was obtained by means of fraud or concealment of
material facts; (b) the registered citizen is disloyal or
disaffected towards the Constitution of India; and, (c) the
registered citizen raded or communicated with an enemy during war.

What if, after assuming office, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is held
guilty of any or all these charges by a court? Would it not tarnish
the office she aspires for? And would she be comfortable in office,
constantly concerned about the durability of her citizenship?

There are other related issues that must impinge on the President of
India's mind when he sits down to work out who is best placed to
take charge as the next prime minister. One of them is the fact that
under Italian law, Sonia Gandhi nee Maino continues to be an Italian
citizen. That is, provided she has not voluntarily repudiated her
citizenship by birth in writing. There is no public evidence to
demonstrate that she has done so; therefore, it must be assumed that
she enjoys dual citizenship under Italian law (Indian law does not
permit it) and that she continues to have access to an Italian
passport. It may sound frivolous, but she is as much eligible to
become the prime minister of Italy as she is to become the prime
minister of India.

A last point. The constitution of the USA demands that an applicant
for American citizenship must be proficient in English, loyal to the
USA and have basic knowledge of the constitution, the country's
history and system of government.

If only the Constitution of India had similar guidelines, the
indigenous people of India would have been spared the ignominy of
being ruled by a person of foreign origin. For, Sonia Gandhi nee
Maino is proficient in no Indian language, including English; her
loyalty to India is all of 15 years old; her knowledge of the
Constitution of India is non-existent; she would fail the most
elementary history test; and, beyond the fact that she wants to be
the prime minister of India, it is doubtful whether she has an
inkling about the Government of India.

After a new prime minister is sworn in, the Press Information Bureau
publishes a pamphlet providing the biographical details of the
incumbent. Till now, nobody has ever looked at the pamphlet because
all the individuals who have held the prime minister's office, have
led a public life -- their minutest biographical details have been
public knowledge for decades if not more.

If Sonia Gandhi nee Maino is sworn in as prime minister of India,
for the first time the PIB's pamphlet will be eagerly read. After
all, India does not even know in which city was she born, what are
the names of her parents, what school she went to, what language she
is most comfortable with, how many elections she has won and lost,
where all has she represented India, what is her favourite dish, who
is her favourite Bollywood playback singer, who is her favourite
poet, etc. The usual trivia that makes up a sarkari prime
ministerial bio-data.

"A Congress led by Sonia gives the NDA a strong base"

Sanjay Matkar • April 28 • 4:10 PM IST
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
Madam Sonia Gandhi was shocked and outraged at Prime Minister Atal
Bihari Vajpayee's criticism of the Congress MPs' behaviour in
Parliament. PM attacks Congress, Sonia takes it out on Advani
She had been holding her peace, she stated, because she believed in
Parliamentary decorum.

Such is the level of sycophancy in Congress ranks that Mani Shankar
Iyer rubbished Vajpayee too and said: "He has learnt nothing in 40
years as a Parliamentarian."

Vajpayee, of course, spoke his mind, both as Prime Minister and as a
person who has been consistently elected to Parliament over a period
of 40 years.

He has to put up with Sonia, a person of foreign origin, with no
distinguishing personal traits, and whose only claim to fame is that
she is the widow of a former Prime Minister of India.

Where would Sonia Gandhi be today had she not been pampered and
mollycoddled by politicians of all hues?

If she were in any other country except India, without the trappings
of power, she would have been an average, if extremely rich person,
subject to the laws of that country and subject to all the problems
of being an ordinary citizen.

But look how she is treated as a "royalty" of sorts now, the
matriarch of a family that has projected itself to be above and
beyond the laws of the nation.

Jawaharlal Nehru has never been accused of corruption, but he has
definitely been responsible for the utter failure of Indian society,
with his utopian vision of a "socialist democracy".

He insisted on pursuing this polity even in the face of adverse
reactions from the nation and its other leaders of those times. As a
result, we are the ones who suffer the consequences today.

India Gandhi followed in his footsteps, and her rule marked the
decline of India.

Whether it was imposing the Emergency, or her decision to storm the
Golden Temple, she acted and lived her life more as the dictatorial
Queen of the country, than as an elected Prime Minister.

Let us also not forget how her son Sanjay Gandhi behaved. He was
notorious for being a womaniser, a crook and was neck-deep in
criminal activities.

Turkmen Gate divided the nation along communal lines more than any
other political act in those days.

Then there was Rajiv Gandhi – the supposed Mr Clean!

Yet his name has been linked to various dubious deals that were
finalised during his term as Prime Minister; whether it was Bofors,
or the HWD submarine scandal, or even the sudden decision of Air
India to purchase aircraft from Airbus Industries in France.

And now we have Sonia Gandhi.

Queen-in-waiting, impatient of these "brown natives" who are keeping
her from ascending to the throne that belongs to her family.
Democracy be damned!

A woman with absolutely no knowledge of the various cultures of
India, who can't even speak the national language properly, and has
no ability to lead a country as diverse as India.

Why is Sonia Gandhi nurturing an ambition to be Prime Minister?

The reason, I believe, lies with the politicians who are in the
forefront of Indian politics today.

Let us consider the BJP. The only Opposition the BJP is afraid of is
the Congress.

If they can inherently disable the Congress by giving importance to
Sonia, they have an Opposition party which is incapable of being a
threat to their power base.

Would Vajpayee, Advani or Jaswant Singh really want to face a
Congress that is led by, say, a team of regional strongmen like
Sharad Pawar, K Karunakaran and KC Pant?

And these frontline leaders supported by the second rung of
intellectuals like Dr Manmohan Singh, Arjun Singh and P Chidambaram?

Such a strong Congress would be daunting to the BJP, to say the
least.

No. It's better to have a weak and disorganised Congress, led by an
incompetent and supported by the likes of Ghulam Nabhi Azad, Ambika
Soni and Makhanlal Fotedar, who individually or jointly can't even
command the respect of a stray dog!

Today, the oldest party is shattered into small regional parties. The
largest chunk is lead by a foreigner. And who is to blame for this
sorry state of affairs?

Indira - for subjugating inner party democracy and destroying
democratic ethos? Rajiv - for his incompetent governance, which lead
to the downfall of the Gandhi empire? Or the other leaders of
minority parties - whose agenda is party before nation, ideology
before reality?

The tenets of democracy demand that the good of the people take
priority over the good of a party or the good of an individual.

The concept of nation before politics is non-existent. And so the
widow wins. Or will she?  «

On the urging of the NCP and Sardar Sanjay Matkar; US Congressmen
Joe Wilson (South Carolina), Brad Miller (North Carolina) and
Ranking Democratic Congressman Eni Faleomavaega have accepted the
invitation extended to them and have decided to visit India in
November on a two week tour.

This will be the first visit by three ranking members of the US
Congress at the invitation of party that is not in power in the
Centre, and also emphasizes the respect that US Lawmakes have for
Shri Sharad Pawar, as an astute political leader and statesman.

We all would like to request the People of India to welcome our
honoured guest into our homes and our hearts !

"Honor and Pride"

At the urging of the Indian Community's Political Action Committee,
the International Relations Committee of the US House of
Representatives unanimously passed an amendment today requiring the
Administration to disclose to US Congress and to the American people
the extent to which Pakistan is fulfilling its promise to clamp down
on cross-border terrorism, shutting down terrorist camps in Pakistan-
held Kashmir, and halting the proliferation of nuclear weapons
technology to rogue states and terrorists. The unanimous, bipartisan
vote reflects the broad support that this issue garners across party
lines.

This landmark vote marks the first time that US Congress has
acknowledged the role of Pakistan in abetting terrorism and in the
proliferation of nuclear weapons technology. By focusing entirely on
the behavior of Pakistan in promoting terrorism as an instrument of
state policy, and in the proliferation of nuclear technology, the US
Congress has taken the first tangible step in decoupling the US
relationship with Pakistan with that from India.

In his remarks before introducing the amendment to H.R. 1950, Rep.
Eni Faleomavaega, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on Asia and the
Pacific, stated, " Although we are appreciative of Pakistan's post
September 11 assistance in the war against terrorism, I cannot turn
a blind eye to the fact that Pakistan has not closed all known
terrorist training camps operating in Pakistan. I cannot turn a
blind eye to the fact that Pakistan has not prohibited the
infiltration of Islamic extremists across the Line of Control into
Indian Kashmir. I cannot turn a blind eye to the fact that General
Musharraf promised Deputy Secretary Armitage that infiltration would
cease and it has not."

The Indian community reached out to members on both sides of the
aisle to build support for the vote. The support of the Chairman of
the House International Relations Committee, Rep. Henry Hyde, was
instrumental in ensuring the passage of the amendment. His
leadership and concern for an issue of national importance ensured
the smooth passage of this landmark amendment.

The amendment titled, 'Section 708. Report On Actions Taken By
Pakistan', states:

For each of fiscal years 2004 and 2005, the President of the United
States shall prepare and transmit to the appropriate congressional
committees a report that contains a description of the extent to
which the Government of Pakistan:

1)Has closed all known terrorist training camps operating in
Pakistan and Pakistani-held Kashmir;

2) Has established serious and identifiable measures to prohibit the
infiltration of Islamic extremists across the ''Line of Control''
(LoC) into India; and

3) Has ceased the transfer of weapons of mass destruction, including
any associated technologies, to any third country or terrorist
organization.

After the vote, Rep. Faleomavaega stated that he harbored no ill-
will against the people of Pakistan. 'It would be hypocritical for
the United States to support a dictatorship despite a firm, long-
standing policy against coup instigators. Today, Pakistan remains a
dictatorship, while only a few years ago it was a democracy. By
contrast, India has demonstrated that democracy can take root and
prosper in non-Western cultures as well, even under the most
difficult circumstances.'

Speaking to the Indian people after the vote, Co-Chair of the India
Caucus, Rep. Crowley stated, 'I am happy that this amendment has
passed. It will make a tangible difference by putting the issue of
cross-border terrorism and nuclear proliferation firmly on the
record'.

The Indian American community rallied strongly  to petition
lawmakers to bring peace to the Subcontinent. Members from all over
the nation called their representatives in Congress, urging them to
support passage of this amendment.

The NCP believes that all efforts should be made to assist Pakistan
make the transition to a stable, peaceful democratic state.
Preventing cross-border terrorism and preventing proliferation of
nuclear weapon technologies are important milestones in this regard.
Indians in the USA are determined to remain active on this issue
until cross-border terrorism emanating from Pakistan and
proliferation of weapons of mass destruction technologies that
jeopardize global interests are completely and verifiably halted.

The success of the NCP (USA) in building relationships, as well as
resolving issues, on behalf of the Indian people is drawing an
increasing number of concerned and well-meaning community leaders,
who are all working to ensure that community, and individual, issues
are addressed by the US elected leaders. The NCP is continuing to
build on its Capitol Hill outreach with senior leaders, and has
recently held substantive talks with Senators Orrin Hatch, Charles
Grassley, Richard Lugar and Congressmen Robert Wexler, and Tom
Davis, among others.

Wonderful..absolutely great. Our NCP volunteers in USA are happy that Shri
Sharad Pawar has not let us down and that the NCP will remain a strong force for
years to come. We are all confidant that with the support of all our people who
believe in National pride and honour, the NCP will sweep the next general
elections under the leadership of Mr. Pawar.

I would like to take this opportunity to propose that Mr. Pawar should
officially be declared as the NCP candidate for Prime Minister's position, and
that the party should take this message all over the world to every Indian.

"HONOUR AND PRIDE"




Bharatkumar <bharatkumar007@...> wrote:
MUMBAI: The possibility of the Congress and the Nationalist Congress
Party forming a pre-election alliance receded sharply on Thursday
after NCP head honcho Sharad Pawar disassociated himself from his
own party spokesperson's recent statement on Congress president
Sonia Gandhi.

Disowning the statement made by state spokesperson of the NCP Vasant
Chavan that the party was ready to reconsider its stand on the issue
of the foreign origin of Sonia Gandhi in the interests of forming a
secular front, Pawar said there was no change in the NCP's position
on this controversial question.

Pawar also ruled out the possibility of the NCP merging with the
Congress at a later stage. 'We have decided to maintain our separate
identity and we will fight to consolidate our party's position," he
said.

Asked about his offer to go in for a pre-poll alliance with the
Congress in Maharashtra, he added, 'We have asked our district units
to seek our party workers' views on the proposal. There is no
response from the Congress so far.We will finalise our strategy
after the state unit of the NCP submits its report."

Pawar said at a news conference that the Congress should not insist
on other parties accepting Ms Gandhi's leadership as a precondition
for the formation of a secular front.

At the Congress' recent meeting in Shimla, the party had adopted a
resolution calling for the formation of a broad secular front to
defeat the ruling BJP. But the fine print, overlooked by many, was
that the proposed front should be led by Ms Gandhi.

Pawar's statements drew a sharp reaction from city Congress chief
Gurudas Kamat. "The Congress with 120 MPs is already the single
largest secular party and this figure is certain to shoot after the
Lok Sabha polls. It but natural that the leader the largest party
should lead the secular alliance. If anybody is serious about
countering the BJP, he should accept Sonia Gandhi's leadership,"
Kamat asserted.

Another Congress leader said that if Pawar had serious reservations
about Ms Gandhi, he should ask his party pull out of the coalition
government in Maharashtra. Pawar noted that the Congress had earlier
supported H.D. Deve Gowda as the prime minister of a secular
government. Reacting to this, Mr Kamat said it was a mistake
committed by the then Congress president Sitaram Kesri. "We will not
repeat this mistake," he stated.

Mr Pawar also said it was premature to talk about a prepoll alliance
to oppose the BJP in the absence of a common minimum programme. When
asked about the initiative taken by the Congress joining hands with
like-minded non-BJP parties, he said, "The parties willing to join
the alliance will have first discuss the modalities and common
minimum programme before deciding the leadership issue."

As part coalition politics, no party could impose its leadership on
other constituents. He said the Congress' proposal had already
encountered a hurdle,with the CPMled left parties deciding to oppose
the BJP-led front as well as the Congress.

"However, we will continue our discussions for forming a secular
alliance. I have received invitation from Shivraj Patil of the
Congress for a meeting of like-minded parties in parliament."

Najimuddin Bookwala(Manoj)

BharatKumar S Bhandary(BK)


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MUMBAI: The possibility of the Congress and the Nationalist Congress
Party forming a pre-election alliance receded sharply on Thursday
after NCP head honcho Sharad Pawar disassociated himself from his
own party spokesperson's recent statement on Congress president
Sonia Gandhi.

Disowning the statement made by state spokesperson of the NCP Vasant
Chavan that the party was ready to reconsider its stand on the issue
of the foreign origin of Sonia Gandhi in the interests of forming a
secular front, Pawar said there was no change in the NCP's position
on this controversial question.

Pawar also ruled out the possibility of the NCP merging with the
Congress at a later stage. 'We have decided to maintain our separate
identity and we will fight to consolidate our party's position," he
said.

Asked about his offer to go in for a pre-poll alliance with the
Congress in Maharashtra, he added, 'We have asked our district units
to seek our party workers' views on the proposal. There is no
response from the Congress so far.We will finalise our strategy
after the state unit of the NCP submits its report."

Pawar said at a news conference that the Congress should not insist
on other parties accepting Ms Gandhi's leadership as a precondition
for the formation of a secular front.

At the Congress' recent meeting in Shimla, the party had adopted a
resolution calling for the formation of a broad secular front to
defeat the ruling BJP. But the fine print, overlooked by many, was
that the proposed front should be led by Ms Gandhi.

Pawar's statements drew a sharp reaction from city Congress chief
Gurudas Kamat. "The Congress with 120 MPs is already the single
largest secular party and this figure is certain to shoot after the
Lok Sabha polls. It but natural that the leader the largest party
should lead the secular alliance. If anybody is serious about
countering the BJP, he should accept Sonia Gandhi's leadership,"
Kamat asserted.

Another Congress leader said that if Pawar had serious reservations
about Ms Gandhi, he should ask his party pull out of the coalition
government in Maharashtra. Pawar noted that the Congress had earlier
supported H.D. Deve Gowda as the prime minister of a secular
government. Reacting to this, Mr Kamat said it was a mistake
committed by the then Congress president Sitaram Kesri. "We will not
repeat this mistake," he stated.

Mr Pawar also said it was premature to talk about a prepoll alliance
to oppose the BJP in the absence of a common minimum programme. When
asked about the initiative taken by the Congress joining hands with
like-minded non-BJP parties, he said, "The parties willing to join
the alliance will have first discuss the modalities and common
minimum programme before deciding the leadership issue."

As part coalition politics, no party could impose its leadership on
other constituents. He said the Congress' proposal had already
encountered a hurdle,with the CPMled left parties deciding to oppose
the BJP-led front as well as the Congress.

"However, we will continue our discussions for forming a secular
alliance. I have received invitation from Shivraj Patil of the
Congress for a meeting of like-minded parties in parliament."

Najimuddin Bookwala(Manoj)

BharatKumar S Bhandary(BK)

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Friends, Indians and Countrymen;

The following article from the archives of Congress Sandesh makes
illuminatating reading, and we should take heed from this. NCP can
win without the Congress !!

As Congress flounders for direction and leadership, there is little
recognition that the real crisis is not so much Sonia Gandhi's
political acts of omission and commission, as the yawning
disjunction between her true face and the rhetoric of her spin-
doctors. This is why the 'crisis of confidence' as Mr. Vasant Sathe
so evocatively calls it, continues to dog the party even when there
are no elections round the corner and no real challenge to the
Signora in the shape of a formidable contender for the post of party
president. Yet it is a fact that the Congress high command lacks the
confidence to conduct party elections, and has repeatedly been
postponing the polls on some weak pretext or other.

It has been consistently argued that the core crisis in Congress is
ideological, and that partymen as a whole are as much responsible
for this state of affairs as its principal helmsman (The Pioneer, 25
April 2000). The verbal salvos aimed at the Signora would indicate
that far from shirking responsibility, thinking Congressmen are
actually trying to redress the situation as best they can. Given the
party's character and spirit, they cannot directly address
themselves to filling the ideological vacuum; that problem will
continue to dog the party for some time more. But they can strive to
metamorphose Sonia Gandhi's style of functioning and change the
composition of the courtiers around her, so that the party is no
longer so divorced from ground realities and grassroots workers.

Having carefully measured Sonia Gandhi's abilities and performance
in nearly three years of public life, Congressmen have found her
severely wanting in critical respects. With the ground daily
slipping beneath their feet, they have decided to rein her in before
she completely ruins the party, making it truly impossible for them
to come to power in the next fifty years. This task is being
accomplished with admirable courage and determination - Ms. Gandhi
is being surrounded by friends and well-wishers, and subjected to
polite and indirect, though pointed, interlocution and criticism.

What Congressmen are seeking to accomplish is a Magna Carta. Faced
with a leader who refuses to grow or go, they have decided to define
the limits of her authority by asserting the 'general will' of the
party. It is a wise move, and can go a long way in stemming the
current rot in the party provided it is accompanied by greater
honesty in assessing the Signora herself, and not limited to merely
increasing access to her (though this is also important).

The point is that if Congressmen truly wish to resolve the question
mark over the party's survival as a credible political party, they
will have to deconstruct the ludicrous myths around Sonia Gandhi, or
remain prey to the 'confusion' and 'mental depression' diagnosed by
Sathe. Indeed, Sathe's seemingly controversial article in the April
issue of Congress Sandesh, though a handsome effort to exonerate the
Signora for the party's current plight, makes a good starting point.

The first, of course, is the fiction that Sonia Gandhi was never
keen to lead the Congress after Rajiv's demise and had valiantly
resisted the efforts of top party leaders for a number of years;
that she is shy and reserved, and uninterested in politics. This
should be read in conjunction with her famed statement that
she 'fought like a tigress' against Rajiv's agreeing to become Prime
Minister in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi's assassination. What
always struck me about this statement was the sheer dishonesty,
hypocrisy, and egotism which laced it. Fate has now sent it back to
haunt Ms. Gandhi with vengeance.

It is high time that Congressmen admit that with Rajiv's demise,
Sonia Gandhi viewed herself as the party's principal regent and sole
legitimate source of authority, and took more than a casual interest
in its affairs. Dissidence against Prime Minister P.V. Narasimha Rao
was frankly encouraged, and the campaign for Mr. Rao to give up the
party presidentship blatantly conducted by her supporters. In fact,
when the party formally split, the leaders of the breakaway faction
paid a courtesy call on her before announcing the formation of the
Congress-T. Its principal proponents are key members of her inner
coterie today.

An analysis of her carefully calibrated entry into Congress
as 'primary member' followed by her swift elevation to 'star
campaigner' similarly shows excessive calculation, rather than a
natural reserve. As I understand it, Mr. Atal Bihari Vajpayee's
failure to win support for his 13-day government, followed by the
fall of the United Front regimes which necessitated the elections of
1998, gave Sonia Gandhi the false impression that the time was ripe
for her debut as India's first foreign-born Prime Minister. It was
this calculation, rather than an altruistic desire to save Congress
from the rash of desertions then depleting its ranks, that
galvanized her to action.

Press reports in this period clearly reveal that even as key
functionaries at the party headquarters believed that Ms. Gandhi's
electoral presence would be confined to addressing token rallies in
some key towns, the lady and her coterie had already worked out an
ambitious takeover plan. The election saw the humiliating sidelining
of party president Sitaram Kesri, while the Signora took charge
as 'sole campaigner.' However,  Congress' performance remained as it
was under Mr. P.V. Narasimha Rao. Meanwhile, Sonia Gandhi remained
mum about whom she 'fought' to enter politics, but went on to undo
her 'shy' image by physically ousting the octogenarian Kesri from
his office at 24 Akbar Road, and taking charge as Congress
president.

It has taken the failure of Sonia Gandhi's bull-dozing tactics to
become Prime Minister last April, followed by the precipitous
decline in the Congress tally of 1999, for her coterie to realize
that it was a mistake to project her 'charismatic capacity to single-
handedly get the masses of India to vote the Congress to power.' Her
lustreless performance as Leader of the Opposition has added to
their anxiety. It is truly astounding that so long after Mr.
Clinton's visit, not only has Ms. Gandhi avoided clarifying what she
actually told him (even if she now feels she made a mistake), but
she has also failed to enunciate her party's policy on the nuclear
question. As for the Congress' stand on economic reforms and the
phasing out of subsidies, it deserves treated more serious treatment
than the current comedy of errors between the Signora and the former
Finance Minister.

The crux of the crisis facing the Congress is Sonia Gandhi's
intellectual incapability to comprehend, let alone meaningfully
contribute to, the major issues and challenges facing the nation. At
the same time, the political courtesy calls she makes upon Mr. Rao
and Mr. Kesri whenever she perceives a threat to her position
clearly demonstrate her tenacity towards her office. Congressmen are
masters in deciphering signs and symbols. They have rightly
concluded that she will not make way for another leader; yet for
them to depose her would involve a fundamental restructuring of the
pillars upon which the party rests. This is something they are as
yet ill prepared for, as extricating the political legacy of leaders
(all former Prime Ministers) as different as Jawaharlal Nehru,
Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi from the dynastic principle hitherto
legitimized by the party, can be a tricky business. The strategy of
surrounding the leader and forcing her to concede the majority
viewpoint is far less fraught with danger.

Dear Ashutosh;

Thank you for your response on my article. I can agree with you on the point
that Vasant Chavan might not be the single person to blame, yet as a veteran
leader he should have taken into consideration the fact that every word that he
speaks has global repurcussions. We were doing very well here trying to get
support from Indians who respect Mr.Pawar and his principles, as well as from
various Congressmen and Senators, who are aware of Mr.Pawar's background. Yet,
in that one statement of Chavan we lost almost six months of hard work.

The Party functionaries and in my mind we all have to get over the Congress-I
culture of the "high command", since everyone from the Party President downwards
is equally responsible for the workings of the Party, and we have to put up a
coherent, stable message across to the electorate.

The One important issue that has been overlooked is that Politics is now Global,
and not regional. Every small event is being observed around the world, hence we
cannot have a narrow focus.

Furthermore, I do not agree that NCP needs Congress to win not only Maharashtra
, but possibly other states. We have a Year. In this One year we should clarify
our stand on those issues that matter to the people. We should Identify the new
generation of candidates that will be able to fulfill the expectations of the
people, and above all we need a complete Electoral strategy. Nothing happens
without a strategy, and to date NCP has not shown to have one at all.

Politics is an area where the "perceptions" of what the party stands for, is as
important as the "reality". If you have reality without perception that is
projected to the electorate, nothing will transpire.

I think that the NCP requires a complete overhaul and it is required right now.

Sardar Sanjay Matkar.

c4ash_s123kid <c4ash_s123kid@...> wrote:
Hello Sanjay
I am not able to understand why NCP is tieing up with Congress.I
agree with ur point of View,but i am not able to understand why
people are blameing Mr Vasant Chavan,Spokeperson of NCP.
He has done his job of wat he has been told to say to media by the
High command.
Blame the HighCommand not any single person.
Mr Vasant Chavan is a great leader and is a great social worker,he
has helped the downtroden ppl,his contribution to the soceity is so
emence tht it cannot be defined.
So all the ppl out here make one thing clear in ur mind all tht is
gooing on the air,plz give the credit to Mr Praful Patel,he made all
this happen,all grass root level workers do not want to merge with
congress.
But every one wants to keep away comunal forces and NCP alone cannot
win election in Mharashtra tht is a fact and we have to accept it.
We are the next largest party next to Shiv Sena and we donot want
shivsena and Bjp led gov to come power coz we love Mharashtra and we
do not want Gujrath to happen in Mharashtra.
I love Mharashtra
Jai Hind Jai Mharashtra

Ashutosh Subash Dev
Mumbai Sena Team Member





--- In nationalistcongressparty@..., "Sanjay"
wrote:
> The statement by Vasant Chavan, spokesman of the NCP on the issue
of
> Sonia Gandhi's status as a foreigner being reconsidered is not
only
> shocking in the extreme but also an insult to all of us who are
> supporting Sh. Sharad Pawar and the NCP purely because of the
> principles on which he left Congress.
>
> WE ARE NOT HERE FOR POLITICAL GAIN, but to support the just cause
of
> keeping a foreigner from assuming power and control over a
Soveriegn
> and Independent India. Our forefathers did not fight and Die in
the
> freedom struggle so that gutless people like Vasant Chavan can
> surrender to the "gori chamdi" even before the electoral battle
has
> begun. DOES THE NCP REALLY EXPECT TO WIN THE NEXT ELECTIONS WITH
SUCH
> A DEFEATIST ATTITUDE.
>
> Let us be very clear: INDIA BELONGS TO INDIANS. Foreigners can
never
> be Indians and definately not be the part of the Government of
India.
>
> Any attempt by Sonia Gandhi to try to become Prime Minister has to
be
> crushed and crushed with total brutality, so that no foreign
person
> would even dare to think that they can take over India.
>
> Even persons like Vasant Chavan do not have the courage to take on
> the Congress then I have two words for them. "GET OUT". We have
many
> youngsters with courage and principles who will take the NCP and
Mr.
> Pawar's ideals and find Victory in the forthcoming elections.
>
> Let us not forget what Shahid Bhagat Singh said:" Sarfaroshi ki
> tamanaa aab hamarey dil mai hai; dekhna hai kitna dumm bajoo O
angrez
> mai hai".


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Sanjay
I am not able to understand why NCP is tieing up with Congress.I
agree with ur point of View,but i am not able to understand why
people are blameing Mr Vasant Chavan,Spokeperson of NCP.
He has done his job of wat he has been told to say to media by the
High command.
Blame the HighCommand not any single person.
Mr Vasant Chavan is a great leader and is a great social worker,he
has helped the downtroden ppl,his contribution to the soceity is so
emence tht it cannot be defined.
So all the ppl out here make one thing clear in ur mind all tht is
gooing on the air,plz give the credit to Mr Praful Patel,he made all
this happen,all grass root level workers do not want to merge with
congress.
But every one wants to keep away comunal forces and NCP alone cannot
win election in Mharashtra tht is a fact and we have to accept it.
We are the next largest party next to Shiv Sena and we donot want
shivsena and Bjp led gov to come power coz we love Mharashtra and we
do not want Gujrath to happen in Mharashtra.
I love Mharashtra
Jai Hind Jai Mharashtra

Ashutosh Subash Dev
Mumbai Sena Team Member





--- In nationalistcongressparty@..., "Sanjay"
<kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> The statement by Vasant Chavan, spokesman of the NCP on the issue
of
> Sonia Gandhi's status as a foreigner being reconsidered is not
only
> shocking in the extreme but also an insult to all of us who are
> supporting Sh. Sharad Pawar and the NCP purely because of the
> principles on which he left Congress.
>
> WE ARE NOT HERE FOR POLITICAL GAIN, but to support the just cause
of
> keeping a foreigner from assuming power and control over a
Soveriegn
> and Independent India. Our forefathers did not fight and Die in
the
> freedom struggle so that gutless people like Vasant Chavan can
> surrender to the "gori chamdi" even before the electoral battle
has
> begun. DOES THE NCP REALLY EXPECT TO WIN THE NEXT ELECTIONS WITH
SUCH
> A DEFEATIST ATTITUDE.
>
> Let us be very clear: INDIA BELONGS TO INDIANS. Foreigners can
never
> be Indians and definately not be the part of the Government of
India.
>
> Any attempt by Sonia Gandhi to try to become Prime Minister has to
be
> crushed and crushed with total brutality, so that no foreign
person
> would even dare to think that they can take over India.
>
> Even persons like Vasant Chavan do not have the courage to take on
> the Congress then I have two words for them. "GET OUT". We have
many
> youngsters with courage and principles who will take the NCP and
Mr.
> Pawar's ideals and find Victory in the forthcoming elections.
>
> Let us not forget what Shahid Bhagat Singh said:" Sarfaroshi ki
> tamanaa aab hamarey dil mai hai; dekhna hai kitna dumm bajoo O
angrez
> mai hai".

Dear Ashok;

I agree with your views and I will not dispute the fact that we need
to get the power of our Nation back to the people. But the
proverbial question is " Who will bell the Cat?". Do you really
think that information that is available to me, an ordinary person;
is not known to the Chief of the Intelligence Bureau? Or that the
Chief of RAW or The Directorate of Revenue Intelligence are not
aware that Sonia Gandhi and her Congress are the largest brokers of
unauthorized money transactions globally?

Sonia Gandhi was in USA about a year an half ago. The public
statements was that she was in USA to meet her supporters. But in
Washington DC she met in Private for 90 minutes with the Directors
of the Fairfax Group, the same group that had publicly claimed about
8 years ago that they had solid information about the Bofors
kickbacks. What transpired in that meeting>? Remember that Sonai is
all times accompanied by a senior police officer from the IPS. Did
that officer realize that he might, just might be a witness in the
most controversial case in Modern Indian history? That if he should
remain silent on what he abserved that officer might actually be an
accessory to a crime.

The crucial question is, why do we , the People of India put up with
this woman? Why are there hundreds of people attending her rallies?
Why dont the general population follow the teachings of the father
of India, and stage massive Non=Cooperation with all those persons
associated with this corrupt Congress?

We have to make a move and the time is right now. I am sending my
mail to many people. Perhaps you might it to your friends too..

Lets see if we can make the difference.

Sanjay Matkar



--- In nationalistcongressparty@..., GALAXICINDIAN
<galaxicindian@y...> wrote:
> Dear Sanjay,
>
> I am of the opinion that no single person is responsible for all
the muck that is spread everywhere, like you pointed out in greater
details to Sonia Gandhi. The fate of billions of people in India has
repeatedly been thrashed by just a few handful of people in this
country that you can count on figner tips....You can find them in
every walk of life and they control power positions, high
administrative and legislative posts, law and order, police,
administration, media, business and the power brokers..to just name
a few. Such groups have made a deep penetration and work with their
hidden agenda to keep people ever away from the golden future the
common men and women of India deserved and had aspired for such a
long time now.
>
> Do we 99 crores of Indians, collectively have no power left, to
defeat and unmask just a 4 to 5 lakh of criminals and thugs, who
guised as religious, political tycoons, swamis and their brokers
have illegally encroached and are holding their illegitimate
monarchy over Indian religion, politics, industry, media and
education sector. It is not a crime for a common man on the street
to dream big and think about development and progress of India and
no one can stop a simple honest, poor comon man to become a
legislative or a member of parliament.Common Public has now to bear
the burden of governing themselves on their shoulders. Now, instead
of remaining dependent on this select group of extremists and
terrorists, who have miserably failed in their duty to provide
Indian people of their right for a better future and dashed the
hopes of a common man time and again, they have to stand on their
own feet.
> Be fearless and Courageous- to bring 'dutycracy' instead '
democracy' which has become a dead corpse now how we conducted
ourselves during last 56 years...
> BRING  DUTYCRACY  INSTEAD OF  DEMOCRACY
>
> Ashok Sharma
>
>
>
> gahjn Sanjay <kozak_vodka@y...> wrote:
> A fledgling Indian dot com company called Tehelka.com made a big
> splash by releasing a tape involving a few BJP and Samata party
> functionaries and some retired defense men. It went on to claim
that
> it had 'exposed' massive corruption within the defense
establishment,
> including India's Defense Minister George Fernandes. The Indian
print
> media and television, especially Tehelka.com's sponsor Zee TV,
> prominently featured the story, sensationalizing it in the
bargain.
> The Congress (and the Communists) immediately demanded that the
> Vajpayee Government resign on 'moral grounds', citing national
> security as the reason. The loudest voice was that of Sonia
Gandhi,
> who went on to call Vajpayee a gaddar (traitor).
>
> It was absurd in the first place for the Congress and the
Communists
> to don the mantle of national security, let alone morality.
Congress
> gave away a large part Kashmir and all of Tibet; the Communists
have
> openly supported Chinese attacks on India, not to mention the
Razakar
> atrocities and the Partition. And Sonia Gandhi, following her now
> infamous tea party, immobilized the Government long enough to
> facilitate the Pakistanis to infiltrate in Kargil. (Pakistan
rewarded
> her by prominently featuring her anti-Government speeches on Pak
TV
> during the Kargil War.)
> But then events took a bizarre turn. Her former ally Subramanian
> Swamy issued a press statement claiming that Sonia Maino (her real
> name) and the Maino family had been paid agents of the notorious
> Soviet intelligence agency KGB. Swamy of course is not the most
> credible person in the world, but this time around it was
different.
> He referred interested parties to the now open Soviet Archives and
> also to a book written by a distinguished Russian journalist. This
> led to panic in the Sonia camp. According to some reports she sent
an
> SOS to her son Rahul to give up his job in London and join her in
her
> time of distress. (A report is that Rahul who has dropped out of
> several colleges has no job, but that is a different story.)
>
> Immediately after the Swamy revelation, the Congress refused to
allow
> the Parliament to meet. This is strange to say the least. With the
> supposedly 'explosive' Tehelka tapes, any opposition party would
be
> itching for a debate in the Parliament. If anything, it should be
the
> NDA (including the BJP) that would want to avoid debate- as the
> Congress did after the Bofors scandal. But of course, once
Parliament
> meets, there is nothing to stop the BJP (or anyone else) from
raising
> questions about the Sonia-KGB connection. This behavior of
Congress -
> running away from any debate in Parliament - lends substance and
> credibility to Swamy's charge.
>
> When a history is written of the last twenty years of Indian
> politics, Sonia Gandhi's name is likely to be associated above all
> with the Bofors scandal. This could of course be overtaken by
> Subramanian Swamy's sensational revelations, if they prove to be
> true. But this is only one episode in a long pattern, which had a
> single goal - acquisition of money for herself and her Italian
> family. Several of her relatives - including her cousin and
> Quttrocchi's wife Maria - are wealthy beyond their wildest dreams
> thanks to Sonia's Indian connection.
> Sonia Gandhi's attachment to money is legendary- understandable in
a
> person of her socio-economic background. For a person of her
> background, the highest aspiration is to escape from her
depressing
> surroundings, which of course she has done with spectacular
success.
> This no doubt accounts for her extraordinary attachment to money,
as
> well as her admiration for get-rich-quick artists like Paul
Marcinkus
> (more later) and Ottavio Quattrocchi. This is a typically lower
> middle class Italian trait. But she also controls vast financial
> resources through her trusts and foundations- and now the Congress
> party. Some of it at least came from the KGB, if Swamy is to be
> believed. Obviously she had to give something in return.
> It goes without saying that the trusts and foundations controlled
by
> Gandhi should be properly audited. As far as the finances are
> concerned, since there was no governmental oversight for many
years,
> we can be reasonably sure that a good part of the money has found
its
> way into illegal channels where profits are very much higher. This
is
> invariably the case all over the world. Keeping this possibility
in
> view, it is worth taking a look at some potential sources of money
> and possible subversion.
> Years ago, well before Rajiv entered politics, Sonia used to be
the
> managing director of a company called Maruti Technical Services.
This
> was illegal since she was still an Italian citizen at the time,
but
> let that pass. One of her more unconventional enterprises was the
> export of coffins to a company called Tribute Caskets in Kansas
City,
> United States. The vice president (or some high official) of
Tribute
> was a woman known as Virginia Cover de Rodrigues. She was an
unusual
> woman, with known connections to several Latin American dictators,
> notably Manuel Noriega of Nicaragua. Noriega is of course a
notorious
> drug lord, now serving a long sentence in a Miami prison. What is
> interesting is that the relationship between Gandhi and de
Rodrigues
> blossomed to the point where de Rodrigues was the beneficiary of
> millions of dollars paid through an account bearing the name
Svenska.
> It was also the account used to channel Bofors kickbacks.
> Then there is the strange case of Archbishop Marcinkus, former
> president of the Vatican Bank, and now wanted by the police in
Italy
> and the United States. The Vatican Bank was a hotbed of drug money
> laundering operations. Its chief Marcinkus is (or was) 'spiritual
> advisor' to Sonia's family. In 1986, when he could not set foot in
> Italy or America for fear of arrest, he received red-carpet
treatment
> in India. He conducted Catholic service at 10 Janpath for Sonia.
> Marcinkus was also involved in several Latin American banks
> controlled by a Sicilian Mafia lord by name Michel Sindona - known
> also as 'the Shark'. Sindona, the Shark, an advisor to the Vatican
> and a personal friend of Pope Paul VI, died in an Italian prison,
> poisoned by unknown hands. Just before his death, he gave a
statement
> accusing the Vatican of the crime.
> At least one other high Vatican official was involved in Latin
> American drug wars. This was Cardinal Posadas-Ocampo of Mexico who
> was an agent of the notorious Colombian drug baron Pablo Escobar,
and
> possibly also of Noriega. In May 1993, Posadas-Ocampo - known as
> the 'Drug Cardinal' - was assassinated at the Gudalajara airport
in
> drug-infested Central Mexico. The Cardinal was closely associated
> with several Latin American banks controlled by Sonia's friend
> Marcinkus and the late Sindona. Mexican Church officials stated
that
> he was killed because he was trying to arrange safe asylum in
Mexico
> for his patron Pablo Escobar. Escobar himself was later gunned
down
> in a battle with the Colombian drug enforcement authorities,
showing
> that he was badly in need of a safe haven. This, the good Cardinal
> was trying to arrange, before he was assassinated.
> Then there is the stranger case of the late Agha Hassan Abedi, the
> founder of the Pakistani Bank known as BCCI (Bank of Credit and
> Commerce International) - another drug money laundering outfit.
Where
> the Vatican Bank was active in Europe and America, the BCCI
> specialized in the Asian drug market. Abedi's reach extended to
the
> U.S. also. He even had the former Secretary of Defense Clark
Clifford
> as his lobbyist for a fee of nearly $100 million! This was exposed
in
> U.S. Congressional hearings, and Clifford was disgraced.
> What has this got to do with the Gandhis of India? For a start
Abedi
> happened to be a major donor to the Indira Gandhi Memorial
> Foundation, later controlled by Sonia. The first Indira Gandhi
Peace
> Prize was awarded to Yasser Arafat, with money donated by Abedi!
In
> addition, several members of the Gandhi trusts have close ties to
> Pakistan. A high official of the Nehru Museum and Library is a
> Pakistani who claims to be a Marxist. Sonia Gandhi's close
associate
> and official spokesman Mani Shankar Aiyar has consistently taken
pro-
> Pakistani positions on most issues - from the Jinnah House in
Mumbai
> to Kashmir. In one of his columns, he went so far as to suggest
that
> Kashmir could be handed over to Pakistan with the expectation that
> Pakistan would help India get oil from the Central Asian
Republics!
> (The Pakistani Archives, if opened some day like the Soviet
Archives,
> should have many interesting secrets to reveal.)
> More recently, something else was brought to my attention by a
person
> who used to work at the Italian Embassy in Delhi. This was when
> Indira Gandhi was Prime Minister. In those days, Sonia openly
> displayed her contempt for India and Indians, and went to cultural
> events at the Embassy consciously dressed in the European style. A
> particularly close friend of Rajiv and Sonia was the Cultural
Attaché
> at the Italian Embassy. This man was later removed by the Italian
> Government for using his diplomatic status to smuggle antiques out
of
> India. His modus operandi was to ship valuable Indian antiques in
> diplomatic courier bags. My friend informed me that some of these
> smuggled antiques ended up in a curio shop in Orbassano in Italy,
run
> by Sonia's relatives. (Orbassano, near Turin, is Sonia's native
> place.) A few journalists that tried to ask questions at the shop
> were unceremoniously thrown out.
> Golden goose
> It was probably knowledge of this murky past - and the dangers of
> placing national security in her hands - that made former
Congressmen
> Sharad Pawar and Purno Sangma break away from the Sonia group and
> form their Nationalist Congress Party. In fact, Sangma explicitly
> told Sonia, "We know nothing about you." Sangma and co had
probably
> hoped that there are enough Congress leaders imbued with the
national
> spirit to follow them. But they reckoned without the venality and
the
> cowardice that characterize the breed of sycophants that make up
the
> Sonia Congress. To them Sonia Gandhi is the goose that lays the
> golden egg. When a mere typist in her office like Vincent George
> could amass crores, what must it be like for others in her court?
> Her fear of exposure helps account for much of her recent
behavior,
> including her entry into politics. It tells us why this housewife
who
> had shown no interest in politics, suddenly took over the
Congress,
> and embarked on an arduous election campaign to keep the BJP away
> form office. This was not to save the Congress but to save
herself -
> especially her past from exposure. The next few weeks and months
> should be quite interesting. The real question: can India afford
to
> place everything including nuclear weapons in the hands of a near
> illiterate adventuress trying to save herself from disgrace?
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
> Ashok Sharma
>
>
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