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RE: [Indianmoths] Indian Silk Moth Saturnia pyretorum

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  • Ian Kitching
    Dear All, The Saturnia pyretorum complex has recently been divided into a number of species, and S. pyretorum is now restricted to SE China, Taiwan and maybe N
    Message 1 of 5 , May 10, 2013

      Dear All,

                          The Saturnia pyretorum complex has recently been divided into a number of species, and S. pyretorum is now restricted to SE China, Taiwan and maybe N Vietnam (as far as I am aware). The populations from Nepal to Bhutan are now assigned to Saturnia cidosa, and it is this species to which I believe the Nagaland moth belongs.

       

      With regard to Samia, the same has happened, a revision has divided what was previously “cynthia” into a number of species. So now S. cynthia is restricted to NE China, Korea and maybe the Russian Far east. At present, it seems that S. canningii is the only species in most of NE India. However, the very similar S. kohlli is known from Miao in Arunachal Pradesh and so might be expected further southwest. Unfortunately, the two species are rather variable and have overlapping wing pattern  characters, and separation of canningii from kohlli is only certain by examination of the male genitalia. Further west in India, and in Nepal, the only Samia is canningii.

       

      Cheers,

       

      Ian

       

      *************************************************************************************************************************************
      Dr Ian J. Kitching, Researcher, Department of Life Sciences, Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London SW7 5BD, U.K.

      Tel: (+44) (0)20 7942 5608 | Fax: (+44) (0)20 7942 5229 | email: I.Kitching@...

      Home page: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/staff-directory/entomology/i-kitching/index.html
      Creating a taxonomic e-science, CATE Sphingidae home page:
      http://www.cate-sphingidae.org
      Sphingidae of South-East Asia version 1.5:
      http://www.sphin-sea.unibas.ch
      Sphingidae of the Eastern Palaearctic
      http://tpittaway.tripod.com/china/china.htm
      *************************************************************************************************************************************

       

      From: Indianmoths@... [mailto:Indianmoths@...] On Behalf Of Sanjay Sondhi
      Sent: 09 May 2013 05:23
      To: Indian Moths
      Subject: [Indianmoths] Indian SIlk Moth Saturnia pyretorum

       

      Hello folks,

       

      Here is another pretty Saturniid from Nagaland, possibly the first record from the state, in fact the only record of it from India is from Sikkim. Known distribution includes China, Hongkong, Myanmar, Nepal, India (Sikkim). Hence this extends its known range. Ian, Roger and Peter's checklist of Saturniids for common names did not include this species, though Hampson does list it from Sikkim. 

       

      Indian Silk Moth/Fish-line Silk Moth  Saturnia pyretorum

      10 Mar 2013

      Chizami, 1,500 m

      Similar species: Saturnia pinratanai

       

       

      Sanjay Sondhi

       

      Titli Trust

       

      Kalpavriksh

       

      +91 135 2607452

       

    • Sanjay Sondhi
      Thanks a ton, Ian. Are there any papers we can consult to examine these issues/revisions? Rgds Sanjay Sondhi Titli Trust www.titlitrust.com Kalpavriksh
      Message 2 of 5 , May 10, 2013
        Thanks a ton, Ian. Are there any papers we can consult to examine
        these issues/revisions?

        Rgds

        Sanjay Sondhi

        Titli Trust
        www.titlitrust.com

        Kalpavriksh
        www.kalpavriksh.org

        +91 135 2607452

        On 10-May-13, at 2:09 PM, Ian Kitching wrote:

        >
        >
        > Dear All,
        >
        > The Saturnia pyretorum complex has recently been
        > divided into a number of species, and S. pyretorum is now restricted
        > to SE China, Taiwan and maybe N Vietnam (as far as I am aware). The
        > populations from Nepal to Bhutan are now assigned to Saturnia
        > cidosa, and it is this species to which I believe the Nagaland moth
        > belongs.
        >
        >
        >
        > With regard to Samia, the same has happened, a revision has divided
        > what was previously “cynthia” into a number of species. So now S.
        > cynthia is restricted to NE China, Korea and maybe the Russian Far
        > east. At present, it seems that S. canningii is the only species in
        > most of NE India. However, the very similar S. kohlli is known from
        > Miao in Arunachal Pradesh and so might be expected further
        > southwest. Unfortunately, the two species are rather variable and
        > have overlapping wing pattern characters, and separation of
        > canningii from kohlli is only certain by examination of the male
        > genitalia. Further west in India, and in Nepal, the only Samia is
        > canningii.
        >
        >
        >
        > Cheers,
        >
        >
        >
        > Ian
        >
        >
        >
        > *************************************************************************************************************************************
        > Dr Ian J. Kitching, Researcher, Department of Life Sciences, Natural
        > History Museum, Cromwell Road, London SW7 5BD, U.K.
        >
        > Tel: (+44) (0)20 7942 5608 | Fax: (+44) (0)20 7942 5229 | email: I.Kitching@...
        >
        > Home page: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/staff-directory/entomology/i-kitching/index.html
        > Creating a taxonomic e-science, CATE Sphingidae home page: http://www.cate-sphingidae.org
        > Sphingidae of South-East Asia version 1.5: http://www.sphin-sea.unibas.ch
        > Sphingidae of the Eastern Palaearctic: http://tpittaway.tripod.com/china/china.htm
        > *************************************************************************************************************************************
        >
        >
        >
        > From: Indianmoths@... [mailto:Indianmoths@...
        > ] On Behalf Of Sanjay Sondhi
        > Sent: 09 May 2013 05:23
        > To: Indian Moths
        > Subject: [Indianmoths] Indian SIlk Moth Saturnia pyretorum
        >
        >
        >
        > Hello folks,
        >
        >
        >
        > Here is another pretty Saturniid from Nagaland, possibly the first
        > record from the state, in fact the only record of it from India is
        > from Sikkim. Known distribution includes China, Hongkong, Myanmar,
        > Nepal, India (Sikkim). Hence this extends its known range. Ian,
        > Roger and Peter's checklist of Saturniids for common names did not
        > include this species, though Hampson does list it from Sikkim.
        >
        >
        >
        > Indian Silk Moth/Fish-line Silk Moth Saturnia pyretorum
        >
        > 10 Mar 2013
        >
        > Chizami, 1,500 m
        >
        > Similar species: Saturnia pinratanai
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > <image001.jpg>
        >
        > Sanjay Sondhi
        >
        >
        >
        > Titli Trust
        >
        > www.titlitrust.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Kalpavriksh
        >
        > www.kalpavriksh.org
        >
        >
        >
        > +91 135 2607452
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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      • Ian Kitching
        Dear Sanjay, The Saturnia revision was published in Entomo-Satsphingia. I m copying Ron Brechlin into this reply in case he can help. The Samia revision is a
        Message 3 of 5 , May 13, 2013
          Dear Sanjay,
          The Saturnia revision was published in Entomo-Satsphingia. I'm copying Ron Brechlin into this reply in case he can help. The Samia revision is a book by Ric Peigler and Stefan Naumann published in 2003. Short of buying it, I don't know how you can access its content.

          Cheers,

          Ian

          *************************************************************************************************************************************
          Dr Ian J. Kitching, Researcher, Department of Life Sciences, Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London SW7 5BD, U.K.

          Tel: (+44) (0)20 7942 5608 | Fax: (+44) (0)20 7942 5229 | email: I.Kitching@...
          Home page: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/staff-directory/entomology/i-kitching/index.html
          Creating a taxonomic e-science, CATE Sphingidae home page: http://www.cate-sphingidae.org
          Sphingidae of South-East Asia version 1.5: http://www.sphin-sea.unibas.ch
          Sphingidae of the Eastern Palaearctic: http://tpittaway.tripod.com/china/china.htm
          *************************************************************************************************************************************


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Indianmoths@... [mailto:Indianmoths@...] On Behalf Of Sanjay Sondhi
          Sent: 11 May 2013 02:24
          To: Indianmoths@...
          Subject: Re: [Indianmoths] Indian Silk Moth Saturnia pyretorum

          Thanks a ton, Ian. Are there any papers we can consult to examine these issues/revisions?

          Rgds

          Sanjay Sondhi

          Titli Trust
          www.titlitrust.com

          Kalpavriksh
          www.kalpavriksh.org

          +91 135 2607452

          On 10-May-13, at 2:09 PM, Ian Kitching wrote:

          >
          >
          > Dear All,
          >
          > The Saturnia pyretorum complex has recently been
          > divided into a number of species, and S. pyretorum is now restricted
          > to SE China, Taiwan and maybe N Vietnam (as far as I am aware). The
          > populations from Nepal to Bhutan are now assigned to Saturnia cidosa,
          > and it is this species to which I believe the Nagaland moth belongs.
          >
          >
          >
          > With regard to Samia, the same has happened, a revision has divided
          > what was previously "cynthia" into a number of species. So now S.
          > cynthia is restricted to NE China, Korea and maybe the Russian Far
          > east. At present, it seems that S. canningii is the only species in
          > most of NE India. However, the very similar S. kohlli is known from
          > Miao in Arunachal Pradesh and so might be expected further southwest.
          > Unfortunately, the two species are rather variable and have
          > overlapping wing pattern characters, and separation of canningii from
          > kohlli is only certain by examination of the male genitalia. Further
          > west in India, and in Nepal, the only Samia is canningii.
          >
          >
          >
          > Cheers,
          >
          >
          >
          > Ian
          >
          >
          >
          > **********************************************************************
          > ***************************************************************
          > Dr Ian J. Kitching, Researcher, Department of Life Sciences, Natural
          > History Museum, Cromwell Road, London SW7 5BD, U.K.
          >
          > Tel: (+44) (0)20 7942 5608 | Fax: (+44) (0)20 7942 5229 | email:
          > I.Kitching@...
          >
          > Home page:
          > http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/staff-directory/entomology/i-ki
          > tching/index.html Creating a taxonomic e-science, CATE Sphingidae home
          > page: http://www.cate-sphingidae.org Sphingidae of South-East Asia
          > version 1.5: http://www.sphin-sea.unibas.ch Sphingidae of the Eastern
          > Palaearctic: http://tpittaway.tripod.com/china/china.htm
          > **********************************************************************
          > ***************************************************************
          >
          >
          >
          > From: Indianmoths@...
          > [mailto:Indianmoths@...
          > ] On Behalf Of Sanjay Sondhi
          > Sent: 09 May 2013 05:23
          > To: Indian Moths
          > Subject: [Indianmoths] Indian SIlk Moth Saturnia pyretorum
          >
          >
          >
          > Hello folks,
          >
          >
          >
          > Here is another pretty Saturniid from Nagaland, possibly the first
          > record from the state, in fact the only record of it from India is
          > from Sikkim. Known distribution includes China, Hongkong, Myanmar,
          > Nepal, India (Sikkim). Hence this extends its known range. Ian, Roger
          > and Peter's checklist of Saturniids for common names did not include
          > this species, though Hampson does list it from Sikkim.
          >
          >
          >
          > Indian Silk Moth/Fish-line Silk Moth Saturnia pyretorum
          >
          > 10 Mar 2013
          >
          > Chizami, 1,500 m
          >
          > Similar species: Saturnia pinratanai
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > <image001.jpg>
          >
          > Sanjay Sondhi
          >
          >
          >
          > Titli Trust
          >
          > www.titlitrust.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Kalpavriksh
          >
          > www.kalpavriksh.org
          >
          >
          >
          > +91 135 2607452
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          ------------------------------------

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        • Alka Vaidya
          Hi, This is just to compare Samia from Nagaland and Jairampur near Miao,  As Ian has mentioned below Genetalia examination is necessary to decide whether it
          Message 4 of 5 , May 30, 2013
            Hi,
            This is just to compare Samia from Nagaland and Jairampur near Miao,
             As Ian has mentioned below Genetalia examination is necessary to decide whether it is canningii or kohlli.
            Alka Vaidya 


            From: Ian Kitching <i.kitching@...>
            To: "'Indianmoths@...'" <Indianmoths@...>
            Sent: Friday, 10 May 2013 2:09 PM
            Subject: RE: [Indianmoths] Indian Silk Moth Saturnia pyretorum

             
            Dear All,
                                The Saturnia pyretorum complex has recently been divided into a number of species, and S. pyretorum is now restricted to SE China, Taiwan and maybe N Vietnam (as far as I am aware). The populations from Nepal to Bhutan are now assigned to Saturnia cidosa, and it is this species to which I believe the Nagaland moth belongs.
             
            With regard to Samia, the same has happened, a revision has divided what was previously “cynthia” into a number of species. So now S. cynthia is restricted to NE China, Korea and maybe the Russian Far east. At present, it seems that S. canningii is the only species in most of NE India. However, the very similar S. kohlli is known from Miao in Arunachal Pradesh and so might be expected further southwest. Unfortunately, the two species are rather variable and have overlapping wing pattern  characters, and separation of canningii from kohlli is only certain by examination of the male genitalia. Further west in India, and in Nepal, the only Samia is canningii.
             
            Cheers,
             
            Ian
             
            *************************************************************************************************************************************
            Dr Ian J. Kitching, Researcher, Department of Life Sciences, Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London SW7 5BD, U.K.

            Tel: (+44) (0)20 7942 5608 | Fax: (+44) (0)20 7942 5229 | email: I.Kitching@...
            Home page: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/staff-directory/entomology/i-kitching/index.html
            Creating a taxonomic e-science, CATE Sphingidae home page:
            http://www.cate-sphingidae.org
            Sphingidae of South-East Asia version 1.5:
            http://www.sphin-sea.unibas.ch
            Sphingidae of the Eastern Palaearctic
            http://tpittaway.tripod.com/china/china.htm
            *************************************************************************************************************************************
             
            From: Indianmoths@... [mailto:Indianmoths@...] On Behalf Of Sanjay Sondhi
            Sent: 09 May 2013 05:23
            To: Indian Moths
            Subject: [Indianmoths] Indian SIlk Moth Saturnia pyretorum
             
            Hello folks,
             
            Here is another pretty Saturniid from Nagaland, possibly the first record from the state, in fact the only record of it from India is from Sikkim. Known distribution includes China, Hongkong, Myanmar, Nepal, India (Sikkim). Hence this extends its known range. Ian, Roger and Peter's checklist of Saturniids for common names did not include this species, though Hampson does list it from Sikkim. 
             
            Indian Silk Moth/Fish-line Silk Moth  Saturnia pyretorum
            10 Mar 2013
            Chizami, 1,500 m
            Similar species: Saturnia pinratanai
             
             
            Sanjay Sondhi
             
            Titli Trust
             
            Kalpavriksh
             
            +91 135 2607452
             


          • Jatishwor Irungbam
            In one of Dr. Ron Brechlin s paper On Saturniidae of Bhutan , he have mention this species as S. cidosa even my specimens which I have send to Dr. Ian have
            Message 5 of 5 , May 31, 2013
              In one of Dr. Ron Brechlin's paper On "Saturniidae of Bhutan", he have mention this species as S. cidosa even my specimens which I have send to Dr. Ian have confirmed as S. cidosa. 
               
              Warm regards: 

              Irungbam Jatishwor Singh
              Lecturer, Mendrelgang Middle Secondary School
              Chirang, Bhutan
              Mobile: 00975-17408618


              From: Alka Vaidya <chitralka@...>
              To: "Indianmoths@..." <Indianmoths@...>
              Cc: Ian Kitching <i.kitching@...>
              Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2013 4:27 PM
              Subject: [Indianmoths] Re: Samia from Jairampur near Miao and from Nagaland

              Hi,
              This is just to compare Samia from Nagaland and Jairampur near Miao,
               As Ian has mentioned below Genetalia examination is necessary to decide whether it is canningii or kohlli.
              Alka Vaidya 


              From: Ian Kitching <i.kitching@...>
              To: "'Indianmoths@...'" <Indianmoths@...>
              Sent: Friday, 10 May 2013 2:09 PM
              Subject: RE: [Indianmoths] Indian Silk Moth Saturnia pyretorum

               
              Dear All,
                                  The Saturnia pyretorum complex has recently been divided into a number of species, and S. pyretorum is now restricted to SE China, Taiwan and maybe N Vietnam (as far as I am aware). The populations from Nepal to Bhutan are now assigned to Saturnia cidosa, and it is this species to which I believe the Nagaland moth belongs.
               
              With regard to Samia, the same has happened, a revision has divided what was previously “cynthia” into a number of species. So now S. cynthia is restricted to NE China, Korea and maybe the Russian Far east. At present, it seems that S. canningii is the only species in most of NE India. However, the very similar S. kohlli is known from Miao in Arunachal Pradesh and so might be expected further southwest. Unfortunately, the two species are rather variable and have overlapping wing pattern  characters, and separation of canningii from kohlli is only certain by examination of the male genitalia. Further west in India, and in Nepal, the only Samia is canningii.
               
              Cheers,
               
              Ian
               
              *************************************************************************************************************************************
              Dr Ian J. Kitching, Researcher, Department of Life Sciences, Natural History Museum, Cromwell Road, London SW7 5BD, U.K.

              Tel: (+44) (0)20 7942 5608 | Fax: (+44) (0)20 7942 5229 | email: I.Kitching@...
              Home page: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/staff-directory/entomology/i-kitching/index.html
              Creating a taxonomic e-science, CATE Sphingidae home page:
              http://www.cate-sphingidae.org
              Sphingidae of South-East Asia version 1.5:
              http://www.sphin-sea.unibas.ch
              Sphingidae of the Eastern Palaearctic
              http://tpittaway.tripod.com/china/china.htm
              *************************************************************************************************************************************
               
              From: Indianmoths@... [mailto:Indianmoths@...] On Behalf Of Sanjay Sondhi
              Sent: 09 May 2013 05:23
              To: Indian Moths
              Subject: [Indianmoths] Indian SIlk Moth Saturnia pyretorum
               
              Hello folks,
               
              Here is another pretty Saturniid from Nagaland, possibly the first record from the state, in fact the only record of it from India is from Sikkim. Known distribution includes China, Hongkong, Myanmar, Nepal, India (Sikkim). Hence this extends its known range. Ian, Roger and Peter's checklist of Saturniids for common names did not include this species, though Hampson does list it from Sikkim. 
               
              Indian Silk Moth/Fish-line Silk Moth  Saturnia pyretorum
              10 Mar 2013
              Chizami, 1,500 m
              Similar species: Saturnia pinratanai
               
               
              Sanjay Sondhi
               
              Titli Trust
               
              Kalpavriksh
               
              +91 135 2607452
               




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