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  • sumalsn
    Dear Holmesians, Can we discuss The Adventure of the Yellow face next month Sumalsn
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
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      Dear Holmesians,
      Can we discuss " The Adventure of the Yellow face" next month
      Sumalsn
    • sridhar C
      Dear Holmesians, Shubh kaam me deri kyon? (Why delay the auspicious/good job?) The first thing that grabbed me when I first read the adventure was the
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
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        Dear Holmesians,

        "Shubh kaam me deri kyon?" (Why delay the auspicious/good job?)

        The first thing that grabbed me when I first read the adventure was the depiction of an African American as a "noble man." This, apart from Uncle Tom's Cabin (Harriet Beecher-Stowe), was the first time I came across an African American as something other than a servant/helper/slave, as they were typically depicted. However good and however noble they may have been, the people of the race were always shown to be strong yet foolish and very superstitious. It was a remarkable treatment of inter-racial marriage in such a sympathetic manner despite the fact that anti-miscegenation (thank you, Wikipedia) laws were in effect in many jurisdictions (though not in Britain).

        When I first read Uncle Tom's Cabin in my mid teens I was scarcely aware of the true meaning of the novel. Perhaps Sir ACD was influenced by Mrs. Beecher-Stowe's writings or perhaps by the fact that Abe Lincoln had once given her credit for bringing about the changes in the living condition of the "slaves" after the Civil War ("So you're the little woman who wrote the book that started this great war!" - he is recorded as telling her when he first met her.)

        Whatever be the reason, the adventure cannot be listed as exactly a failure of Sherlock Holmes, though he does request Watson to remind him of "Norbury" if he gets too proud. All Holmes does is to theorize (albeit without the complete facts and in opposition to his own principle - "it is a capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the judgement) and he is not much off the mark. He believes it to be a husband, only it is the child. His theory of blackmail is, I believe, the only gross error he makes. After all, why would the blackmailer(s) want a picture of the lady, if all he (they) wanted was money, is one of the questions that I can think of.



        Sridhar.
        PS: miscegenation - marriage or cohabitation between a man and woman of different races, esp., in the U.S., between a black and a white person.

        sumalsn <no_reply@...> wrote:
        Dear Holmesians,
        Can we discuss " The Adventure of the Yellow face" next month
        Sumalsn






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      • Nikhil Prasad Ojha
        For me, Yellow Face is a personal favourite because of the pathos in its closing line when the Master admits his fallibility: * If it should ever strike you
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 17, 2006
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          For me, "Yellow Face" is a personal favourite because of the pathos in its
          closing line when the Master admits his fallibility:
          *"If it should ever strike you that I am getting a little over-confident in
          my powers, or giving less pains to a case than it deserves, kindly whisper
          'Norbury' in my ear, and I shall be infinitely obliged to you."*



          On 9/17/06, sridhar C <cs_gollum@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Holmesians,
          >
          > "Shubh kaam me deri kyon?" (Why delay the auspicious/good job?)
          >
          > The first thing that grabbed me when I first read the adventure was the
          > depiction of an African American as a "noble man." This, apart from Uncle
          > Tom's Cabin (Harriet Beecher-Stowe), was the first time I came across an
          > African American as something other than a servant/helper/slave, as they
          > were typically depicted. However good and however noble they may have been,
          > the people of the race were always shown to be strong yet foolish and very
          > superstitious. It was a remarkable treatment of inter-racial marriage in
          > such a sympathetic manner despite the fact that anti-miscegenation (thank
          > you, Wikipedia) laws were in effect in many jurisdictions (though not in
          > Britain).
          >
          > When I first read Uncle Tom's Cabin in my mid teens I was scarcely aware
          > of the true meaning of the novel. Perhaps Sir ACD was influenced by Mrs.
          > Beecher-Stowe's writings or perhaps by the fact that Abe Lincoln had once
          > given her credit for bringing about the changes in the living condition of
          > the "slaves" after the Civil War ("So you're the little woman who wrote the
          > book that started this great war!" - he is recorded as telling her when he
          > first met her.)
          >
          > Whatever be the reason, the adventure cannot be listed as exactly a
          > failure of Sherlock Holmes, though he does request Watson to remind him of
          > "Norbury" if he gets too proud. All Holmes does is to theorize (albeit
          > without the complete facts and in opposition to his own principle - "it is a
          > capital mistake to theorize before you have all the evidence. It biases the
          > judgement) and he is not much off the mark. He believes it to be a husband,
          > only it is the child. His theory of blackmail is, I believe, the only gross
          > error he makes. After all, why would the blackmailer(s) want a picture of
          > the lady, if all he (they) wanted was money, is one of the questions that I
          > can think of.
          >
          >
          >
          > Sridhar.
          > PS: miscegenation - marriage or cohabitation between a man and woman of
          > different races, esp., in the U.S., between a black and a white person.
          >
          > sumalsn <no_reply@...> wrote:
          > Dear Holmesians,
          > Can we discuss " The Adventure of the Yellow face" next month
          > Sumalsn
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great
          > rates starting at 1¢/min.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • sumalsn
          Dear Holmesians, The Canon is by and large free from rcist prejudices you see in other contemporary Victorian writers . However, Sir doyle occassionally slips
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 22, 2006
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            Dear Holmesians,
            The Canon is by and large free from rcist prejudices you see in other
            contemporary Victorian writers . However, Sir doyle occassionally
            slips in a bit of mild racism in his writings. The Adventure of the
            Yello Face is one of the two stories which have a mildly racist tone
            despite the excellent anti racist message the entire story carries.
            When Effie Munro opens the locket which she wore around her neck,
            what is revealed is "a portrait of a man strikingly handsome and
            intelligent-looking, but bearing unmistakable signs of his African
            descent".
            My question is why the use of the word"but". Was it a Freudian slip?
            Let us discuss
            Sumalsn
          • sridhar C
            Dear Holmesians, I do not get the feeling from reading the adventure that Sir ACD is a racist. Towards the end, where Mrs. Munro narrates her story, her first
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 23, 2006
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              Dear Holmesians,

              I do not get the feeling from reading the adventure that Sir ACD is a racist. Towards the end, where Mrs. Munro narrates her story, her first husband is described as a "noble" man and we get the feeling that she is indeed proud of him even though he is long dead and that she still treasures his memories. Aren't those the same feelings which the author wants us to imagine when thinking of the dead man? A man, of whatever color or creed or nationality, who can inspire such affection in any heart is indeed a noble person. Isn't that what Sir ACD is trying to say?

              In fact, even where the word "but" is used, I believe it is merely a way of confirming the reason for the little girl's dark color, viz., her father was of an African descent.

              But then, let's think of it this way. Let's say the lady's affection for the husband had perhaps shifted to her new husband. But her affection for the child forced her to acknowledge the truth, insofar as she wanted a better life for her daughter and Mr. Munro was, as far as she knew, worth taking a chance with. The end result was precisely what she might have predicted. Mr. Munro took the child into his fold.


              Sridhar


              sumalsn <no_reply@...> wrote:
              Dear Holmesians,
              The Canon is by and large free from rcist prejudices you see in other
              contemporary Victorian writers . However, Sir doyle occassionally
              slips in a bit of mild racism in his writings. The Adventure of the
              Yello Face is one of the two stories which have a mildly racist tone
              despite the excellent anti racist message the entire story carries.
              When Effie Munro opens the locket which she wore around her neck,
              what is revealed is "a portrait of a man strikingly handsome and
              intelligent-looking, but bearing unmistakable signs of his African
              descent".
              My question is why the use of the word"but". Was it a Freudian slip?
              Let us discuss
              Sumalsn







              ---------------------------------
              Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jo Ellen Waltz
              Bravo.I could not have said it any better. I agree with everything you said. I thought it was written beautifully, and with feeling. You can very easily get
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 23, 2006
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                Bravo.I could not have said it any better. I agree with everything you said. I thought it was written beautifully, and with feeling. You can very easily get emotional while reading the story. Everyone have a great day.

                sridhar C <cs_gollum@...> wrote: Dear Holmesians,

                I do not get the feeling from reading the adventure that Sir ACD is a racist. Towards the end, where Mrs. Munro narrates her story, her first husband is described as a "noble" man and we get the feeling that she is indeed proud of him even though he is long dead and that she still treasures his memories. Aren't those the same feelings which the author wants us to imagine when thinking of the dead man? A man, of whatever color or creed or nationality, who can inspire such affection in any heart is indeed a noble person. Isn't that what Sir ACD is trying to say?

                In fact, even where the word "but" is used, I believe it is merely a way of confirming the reason for the little girl's dark color, viz., her father was of an African descent.

                But then, let's think of it this way. Let's say the lady's affection for the husband had perhaps shifted to her new husband. But her affection for the child forced her to acknowledge the truth, insofar as she wanted a better life for her daughter and Mr. Munro was, as far as she knew, worth taking a chance with. The end result was precisely what she might have predicted. Mr. Munro took the child into his fold.


                Sridhar


                sumalsn <no_reply@...> wrote:
                Dear Holmesians,
                The Canon is by and large free from rcist prejudices you see in other
                contemporary Victorian writers . However, Sir doyle occassionally
                slips in a bit of mild racism in his writings. The Adventure of the
                Yello Face is one of the two stories which have a mildly racist tone
                despite the excellent anti racist message the entire story carries.
                When Effie Munro opens the locket which she wore around her neck,
                what is revealed is "a portrait of a man strikingly handsome and
                intelligent-looking, but bearing unmistakable signs of his African
                descent".
                My question is why the use of the word"but". Was it a Freudian slip?
                Let us discuss
                Sumalsn







                ---------------------------------
                Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small Business.

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                Sincerely,
                Jo Ellen Waltz

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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • sumalsn
                Dear Sri, Joe and Holmesians, I could not agree with you more.Sri , your analysis was excellent. I think Sir Doyle was a broadminded man as evident from the
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 29, 2006
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                  Dear Sri, Joe and Holmesians,

                  I could not agree with you more.Sri , your analysis was excellent. I
                  think Sir Doyle was a broadminded man as evident from the Canon. His
                  personal life was largely free from racism. Remember, he defended ,
                  GEorge Edalji, a Parsi wrongly accused of murder.
                  VIctorian writers were ocassionally racist, Rudyard Kipling is one
                  prime example.
                  Sumalsn
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