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SurveykshaN Results: Desert Island Soundtracks of S D Burman

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  • Vinay
    Hi all: The survey s over. And it s time for results. I hope the wait was bearable. There s not much that I would like to say except that the response was
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1, 2004
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      Hi all:

      The survey's over. And it's time for results. I hope the wait was
      bearable. There's not much that I would like to say except that the
      response was great; more than what I expected. And thanks to
      everyone who participated in the survey. You made the whole effort
      worthwhile.

      Also, thanks to Nilangshu for providing the filmography and Srinivas
      Ganti for beta-testing (and being the first one to take the
      bait :)). To the results now...

      Highlights
      =================
      * Let's start with the 'losers' for a change. Out of a total of 89,
      74 of SDB's films are in at least someone's favorite-fifteen list.
      Films that didn't make to anyone's list are:
      - Arjun Pandit
      - Armaan
      - Chittor Vijay
      - Diwangee
      - Eight Days
      - Ek Ke Baad Ek
      - Kamal
      - Laal Kunwar
      - Miss India
      - Miya Biwi Raazi
      - Phagun
      - Radha Krishna
      - Sagina
      - Shahenshah
      - Yeh Gulistan Hamara

      * 6 of his movies are liked by over 50% of the voters. To contrast
      it with RDB's survey results, only one film (Amar Prem) enjoyed an
      over-50% selection.
      * The top-favorite movie gets phenomenal 80% votes. The best scorer
      in RDB's survey got 58%.
      * The year-wise distribution of top-15 does not see any movie from
      1940s; in fact not even in top 40. Amongst top-15, rest of three
      decades that SDB worked in gets almost equal representation. The
      year-wise distribution for top-15 is:
      - 1950s - 5
      - 1960s - 6
      - 1970s - 4
      * Among lyricists, Majrooh has the most number of films in the top-
      15. However, Shailendra gets 2 places in top 3. The complete tally
      amongst top-15 is:
      - Majrooh - 8
      - Shailendra - 4
      - Neeraj - 2
      - Hasrat - 2
      - Sahir - 1
      - Anand Bakshi - 1

      Participants (65)
      ===========
      Abhay Phadnis, Abhijit Deonath, Afzal A. Khan, Ajit, Amarendra R.
      Nargundkar, Anand Juvekar, Anil, Anirudha Bhattacharjee, Ankur Jain,
      Arjita Goswami, Arun Gupta, Arunabha, Asad ur Rahman Kidwai, AT,
      Atanu Raychaudhuri, Avirup Guha Roy, Bhalchndra Gore, Deeepesh
      Belwal, Dhaval, Dikshit Arya, Indranath Mukherjee, K.V.Ramesh, KCP,
      Ketan, Khawaja Irfan Anwar, Kishoranand, Milind Parulekar, Mitesh
      Gandhi, Neha, Nilangshu B. Haldar, Pankaj Vyas, Pavan Jha, Rajarshi
      Majumdar, Ramesh Subramaniam, Richa Jain, Ritu Chandra, Robert
      Iannapollo, Robin Bhat, Saab, Sameer, Santanu Ghatak, Sauvik Basu,
      Shalini Razdan, Shashikant J Rao, Sony Guha, Srijit Mukherji,
      Srinivas Ganti, st, Syed, Tabassum, Tadatmya Vaishnav, Ummer
      Siddique, Unmesh Patil, Valiant D'souza, Vampy (Bijit Banerjee),
      Vasanth Ekbote, Vibhendu, Vijay Kumar K, Vinay, Vipul, Vish
      Krishnan, Vivek, Yatin Sangoi, Yogesh Sharma, Zaheer Ul Haq

      Results
      ======
      'Guide' is overwhelmingly the absolute favorite of most voters,
      with 'Pyaasa' being the next. The numbers against each movie below
      are the percentage of survey-takers who selected the particular
      score in their favorite list.

      Guide (1965) 80
      Pyaasa (1957) 72.31
      Bandini (1962) 67.69
      Abhimaan (1973) 63.08
      Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi (1958) 58.46

      Tere Ghar Ke Saamne (1963) 50.77
      Jewel Thief (1967) 49.23
      Aradhana (1971) 47.69
      Paying Guest (1957) 44.62
      Meri Surat Teri Aakhen (1963) 43.08
      Nau Do Gyarah (1957) 43.08
      Sharmilee (1971) 41.54
      Sujaata (1959) 40
      Teen Devian (1965) 40
      Prem Pujari (1970) 38.46

      Kaala Baazar (1960) 36.92
      Kagaz Ke Phool (1959) 33.85
      Bombai Ka Babu (1960) 32.31
      Munimji (1955) 29.23
      Tere Mere Sapne (1971) 29.23
      Jaal (1952) 26.15
      Talash (1969) 26.15
      House No. 44 (1955) 24.62
      Chupke Chupke (1975) 23.08
      Kaala Paani (1958) 23.08
      Mili (1975) 23.08

      Taxi Driver (1954) 21.54
      Gambler (1971) 20
      Baazi (1951) 16.92
      Devdas (1955) 12.31
      Funtoosh (1956) 12.31
      Lajwanti (1958) 12.31
      Afsar (1950) 10.77
      Prem Nagar (1974) 10.77
      Buzdil (1951) 9.23

      Baat Ek Raat Ki (1962) 7.69
      Ishq Par Zor Nahin (1970) 7.69
      Us Paar (1974) 7.69
      Zindagi Zindagi (1972) 7.69
      Insaan Jaag Utha (1959) 6.15
      Jyoti (1969) 6.15
      Manzil (1960) 6.15
      Sazaa (1951) 6.15
      Shabnam (1949) 6.15
      Vidya (1948) 6.15
      Ziddi (1964) 6.15
      Barood (1976) 4.62
      Dr. Vidya (1962) 4.62
      Jeevan Jyoti (1953) 4.62
      Sitaron Se Aage (1958) 4.62

      Angare (1954) 3.08
      Anuraag (1972) 3.08
      Apna Haath Jagannath (1960) 3.08
      Benazir (1964) 3.08
      Bewaqoof (1960) 3.08
      Chhupa Rustom (1973) 3.08
      Ek Nazar (1951) 3.08
      Jugnu (1973) 3.08
      Kaise Kahoon (1964) 3.08
      Madh Bhare Nain (1955) 3.08
      Mashaal (1950) 3.08
      Naughty Boy (1962) 3.08
      Naujawan (1951) 3.08
      Naya Zamana (1971) 3.08
      Solwa Saal (1958) 3.08

      40 Baba Ek Chor (1954) 1.54
      Bablaa (1953) 1.54
      Bahar (1951) 1.54
      Dil Ki Rani (1947) 1.54
      Do Bhai (1947) 1.54
      Pyar (1950) 1.54
      Shikari (1946) 1.54
      Society (1955) 1.54
      Tyaag (1976) 1.54

      The results will also be available (in a little more colorful
      format) at the survey URL:
      http://www.panchamonline.com/survey/sdb/

      Thanks again to everyone who submitted their entries. Your comments
      and suggestions are welcome.

      --
      Vinay
      --------------------------------------------------------------
      Does anyone REALLY read these stupid quotes?
    • hfm_zindabaad
      Hello Vinay, Excellent poll and follow-up statistical analysis; Congrats! Top-tier results were more or less predictable, but still, quite fascinating to read.
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1, 2004
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        Hello Vinay,

        Excellent poll and follow-up statistical analysis; Congrats!

        Top-tier results were more or less predictable, but still, quite
        fascinating to read.

        One point which I've made earlier at SKS and which is corroborated
        to some degree at least in your survey - simply the absence of SDB's
        music generally available in the commercial market.

        To a well-connected fan - who has amassed all the SDB-iana available
        via 78 RPMS, rare prints of the films themselves, and of course, the
        more common long-plays and compact discs - to such a person, the
        lack of availability would make no difference in his/her selection
        of 15 favourites.

        But I'd say these lucky people would be in the minority. To the
        public at large, simply not having general access to SDB's works
        will drop a given score off the radar.

        In this sense, SDB and Madan Mohan share the same fate. Large swaths
        (50%+?) of their oeuvre are either non-existent or have never moved
        beyond the 78 RPM stage.

        One could argue that that's because the music of those films was a
        flop to begin with. And through this circular logic, is partly the
        reason these films show up only at the bottom of your list.

        I'd still say that in this Internet-age, where music and news of
        music traverses the world at literally the speed of light, the
        record company's issuing of the 'rarer' works of a music director or
        singer would have a tremendous influence on that particular score
        gaining recognition - good or bad, in the public eye.

        And to that point I have to add - it may be a fool's dream but a
        large, presumably profitable company like RPG (now owned by
        Universal Studios?) would see it as its 'social' responsibility to
        publish the rarer works, even if they are loss-leaders. They must
        have made (and still are) making tons of money on the Guides and the
        Abhimaans. Why not allocate some of those revenue streams to the Ek
        Nazars and Bablaas.

        So, anyway, here is where we see a co-relationship of this lack of
        interest and lack of general availability of the score (in terms of
        audio-cd or vhs/dvd).. or, as you say,

        "Let's start with the 'losers' for a change. Out of a total of 89,
        > 74 of SDB's films are in at least someone's favorite-fifteen
        list. "

        As far as I know, the following films fall in this category (note
        the related percent points)

        > Afsar (1950) 10.77
        > Insaan Jaag Utha (1959) 6.15
        > Jyoti (1969) 6.15
        > Shabnam (1949) 6.15
        > Vidya (1948) 6.15
        > Dr. Vidya (1962) 4.62
        > Jeevan Jyoti (1953) 4.62
        > Sitaron Se Aage (1958) 4.62
        >
        > Angare (1954) 3.08
        > Apna Haath Jagannath (1960) 3.08
        > Ek Nazar (1951) 3.08
        > Kaise Kahoon (1964) 3.08
        > Madh Bhare Nain (1955) 3.08
        > Mashaal (1950) 3.08
        > Naughty Boy (1962) 3.08

        > 40 Baba Ek Chor (1954) 1.54
        > Bablaa (1953) 1.54
        > Bahar (1951) 1.54
        > Dil Ki Rani (1947) 1.54
        > Do Bhai (1947) 1.54
        > Pyar (1950) 1.54
        > Shikari (1946) 1.54
        > Society (1955) 1.54
        > Tyaag (1976) 1.54


        Tyaag was originally issued by Phillips and unless RPG or some other
        company has the rights, the music of even this 1976 film is
        officially extinct? (At least the two KK-Lata duets were were
        preserving)

        Similarly with Arjun Pandit, which did have a very Lata song (bolo
        preetam) and Kishore's wonderful 'man mera udaa jaaye'.

        There may be some here that indeed are generally available, but at
        least I have not seen them and don't fall asleep at the wheel too
        often, on this subject :)

        One other point is 'Deewangee'. This was one of those that nobody
        picked. But sadly - in ways more than one - we can likely attribute
        that more to Ravindra Jain than SDB. 'Chal sapnon ke sheher' - SDB's
        swan song by Kishore and Bakshi is one of my personal favourites in
        the SDB/KK library. Maybe that's for sentimental reasons and with
        some personal memories tied up with the song, but whatever - a
        superb number!

        Long story short about these rarer SDB films - one can't like what
        one can't hear or see.

        Again, congrats and thanks. You've put a lot of hard work into this
        survey. Well worth it!

        Regards..Robin








        --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "Vinay" <v9y@y...> wrote:
        > Hi all:
        >
        > The survey's over. And it's time for results. I hope the wait was
        > bearable. There's not much that I would like to say except that
        the
        > response was great; more than what I expected. And thanks to
        > everyone who participated in the survey. You made the whole effort
        > worthwhile.
        >
        > Also, thanks to Nilangshu for providing the filmography and
        Srinivas
        > Ganti for beta-testing (and being the first one to take the
        > bait :)). To the results now...
        >
        > Highlights
        > =================
        > * Let's start with the 'losers' for a change. Out of a total of
        89,
        > 74 of SDB's films are in at least someone's favorite-fifteen list.
        > Films that didn't make to anyone's list are:
        > - Arjun Pandit
        > - Armaan
        > - Chittor Vijay
        > - Diwangee
        > - Eight Days
        > - Ek Ke Baad Ek
        > - Kamal
        > - Laal Kunwar
        > - Miss India
        > - Miya Biwi Raazi
        > - Phagun
        > - Radha Krishna
        > - Sagina
        > - Shahenshah
        > - Yeh Gulistan Hamara
        >
        > * 6 of his movies are liked by over 50% of the voters. To contrast
        > it with RDB's survey results, only one film (Amar Prem) enjoyed an
        > over-50% selection.
        > * The top-favorite movie gets phenomenal 80% votes. The best
        scorer
        > in RDB's survey got 58%.
        > * The year-wise distribution of top-15 does not see any movie from
        > 1940s; in fact not even in top 40. Amongst top-15, rest of three
        > decades that SDB worked in gets almost equal representation. The
        > year-wise distribution for top-15 is:
        > - 1950s - 5
        > - 1960s - 6
        > - 1970s - 4
        > * Among lyricists, Majrooh has the most number of films in the top-
        > 15. However, Shailendra gets 2 places in top 3. The complete tally
        > amongst top-15 is:
        > - Majrooh - 8
        > - Shailendra - 4
        > - Neeraj - 2
        > - Hasrat - 2
        > - Sahir - 1
        > - Anand Bakshi - 1
        >
        > Participants (65)
        > ===========
        > Abhay Phadnis, Abhijit Deonath, Afzal A. Khan, Ajit, Amarendra R.
        > Nargundkar, Anand Juvekar, Anil, Anirudha Bhattacharjee, Ankur
        Jain,
        > Arjita Goswami, Arun Gupta, Arunabha, Asad ur Rahman Kidwai, AT,
        > Atanu Raychaudhuri, Avirup Guha Roy, Bhalchndra Gore, Deeepesh
        > Belwal, Dhaval, Dikshit Arya, Indranath Mukherjee, K.V.Ramesh,
        KCP,
        > Ketan, Khawaja Irfan Anwar, Kishoranand, Milind Parulekar, Mitesh
        > Gandhi, Neha, Nilangshu B. Haldar, Pankaj Vyas, Pavan Jha,
        Rajarshi
        > Majumdar, Ramesh Subramaniam, Richa Jain, Ritu Chandra, Robert
        > Iannapollo, Robin Bhat, Saab, Sameer, Santanu Ghatak, Sauvik Basu,
        > Shalini Razdan, Shashikant J Rao, Sony Guha, Srijit Mukherji,
        > Srinivas Ganti, st, Syed, Tabassum, Tadatmya Vaishnav, Ummer
        > Siddique, Unmesh Patil, Valiant D'souza, Vampy (Bijit Banerjee),
        > Vasanth Ekbote, Vibhendu, Vijay Kumar K, Vinay, Vipul, Vish
        > Krishnan, Vivek, Yatin Sangoi, Yogesh Sharma, Zaheer Ul Haq
        >
        > Results
        > ======
        > 'Guide' is overwhelmingly the absolute favorite of most voters,
        > with 'Pyaasa' being the next. The numbers against each movie below
        > are the percentage of survey-takers who selected the particular
        > score in their favorite list.
        >
        > Guide (1965) 80
        > Pyaasa (1957) 72.31
        > Bandini (1962) 67.69
        > Abhimaan (1973) 63.08
        > Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi (1958) 58.46
        >
        > Tere Ghar Ke Saamne (1963) 50.77
        > Jewel Thief (1967) 49.23
        > Aradhana (1971) 47.69
        > Paying Guest (1957) 44.62
        > Meri Surat Teri Aakhen (1963) 43.08
        > Nau Do Gyarah (1957) 43.08
        > Sharmilee (1971) 41.54
        > Sujaata (1959) 40
        > Teen Devian (1965) 40
        > Prem Pujari (1970) 38.46
        >
        > Kaala Baazar (1960) 36.92
        > Kagaz Ke Phool (1959) 33.85
        > Bombai Ka Babu (1960) 32.31
        > Munimji (1955) 29.23
        > Tere Mere Sapne (1971) 29.23
        > Jaal (1952) 26.15
        > Talash (1969) 26.15
        > House No. 44 (1955) 24.62
        > Chupke Chupke (1975) 23.08
        > Kaala Paani (1958) 23.08
        > Mili (1975) 23.08
        >
        > Taxi Driver (1954) 21.54
        > Gambler (1971) 20
        > Baazi (1951) 16.92
        > Devdas (1955) 12.31
        > Funtoosh (1956) 12.31
        > Lajwanti (1958) 12.31
        > Afsar (1950) 10.77
        > Prem Nagar (1974) 10.77
        > Buzdil (1951) 9.23
        >
        > Baat Ek Raat Ki (1962) 7.69
        > Ishq Par Zor Nahin (1970) 7.69
        > Us Paar (1974) 7.69
        > Zindagi Zindagi (1972) 7.69
        > Insaan Jaag Utha (1959) 6.15
        > Jyoti (1969) 6.15
        > Manzil (1960) 6.15
        > Sazaa (1951) 6.15
        > Shabnam (1949) 6.15
        > Vidya (1948) 6.15
        > Ziddi (1964) 6.15
        > Barood (1976) 4.62
        > Dr. Vidya (1962) 4.62
        > Jeevan Jyoti (1953) 4.62
        > Sitaron Se Aage (1958) 4.62
        >
        > Angare (1954) 3.08
        > Anuraag (1972) 3.08
        > Apna Haath Jagannath (1960) 3.08
        > Benazir (1964) 3.08
        > Bewaqoof (1960) 3.08
        > Chhupa Rustom (1973) 3.08
        > Ek Nazar (1951) 3.08
        > Jugnu (1973) 3.08
        > Kaise Kahoon (1964) 3.08
        > Madh Bhare Nain (1955) 3.08
        > Mashaal (1950) 3.08
        > Naughty Boy (1962) 3.08
        > Naujawan (1951) 3.08
        > Naya Zamana (1971) 3.08
        > Solwa Saal (1958) 3.08
        >
        > 40 Baba Ek Chor (1954) 1.54
        > Bablaa (1953) 1.54
        > Bahar (1951) 1.54
        > Dil Ki Rani (1947) 1.54
        > Do Bhai (1947) 1.54
        > Pyar (1950) 1.54
        > Shikari (1946) 1.54
        > Society (1955) 1.54
        > Tyaag (1976) 1.54
        >
        > The results will also be available (in a little more colorful
        > format) at the survey URL:
        > http://www.panchamonline.com/survey/sdb/
        >
        > Thanks again to everyone who submitted their entries. Your
        comments
        > and suggestions are welcome.
        >
        > --
        > Vinay
        > --------------------------------------------------------------
        > Does anyone REALLY read these stupid quotes?
      • Vinay
        Hi Robin: Thanks for the kind words. I agree with everything what you have said. Especially regarding the responsibility of music companies to release rarer
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 1, 2004
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          Hi Robin:

          Thanks for the kind words.

          I agree with everything what you have said. Especially regarding the
          responsibility of music companies to release rarer (not released
          since long or never released on new media) scores. In fact, it
          doesn't have to be a loss-making venture. There are ways in which
          the profitability can be maintained. For one, they can price the
          scores at a premium. Two, they can include a rare movie with a
          popular one in a double-movie deal. Three, they can put the
          marketing department to task and come up with innovative ideas to
          sell them. But it is absolutely disappointing to see a don't-care
          attitude of the companies about such scores, which in all likeliness
          may have flopped due to their own lack of promotion.

          On the other hand and at the same time, I think some work needs to
          be done on the consumers' part as well. The companies at least need
          to know which movies they have to dig from their archives. They
          cannot simply start releasing every score from say 1940s one by one.
          They need to have at least some kind of shortlisting; some idea of
          what people (even few) are looking for, to minimalize the chances or
          the amount of loss. I don't think companies always have ideas of
          what is rare or not available with the consumers. Writing to them,
          individually or collectively, may be a good idea to make them aware
          of the wish-lists. I am not saying this is always going to work (in
          fact I have tried this myself without success some times upto a few
          years ago), but I think without this, it will be even more unlikely
          to get those rarities released. Plus I think things are changing and
          the way Universal released a couple of the RDB scores on demands of
          fans (in fact a very small, though in some ways representative,
          group) is a ray of hope.

          Just my 2 cents.

          Vinay

          --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "hfm_zindabaad"
          <hfm_zindabaad@y...> wrote:
          > Hello Vinay,
          >
          > Excellent poll and follow-up statistical analysis; Congrats!
          >
          > Top-tier results were more or less predictable, but still, quite
          > fascinating to read.
          >
          > One point which I've made earlier at SKS and which is corroborated
          > to some degree at least in your survey - simply the absence of
          SDB's
          > music generally available in the commercial market.
          >
          > To a well-connected fan - who has amassed all the SDB-iana
          available
          > via 78 RPMS, rare prints of the films themselves, and of course,
          the
          > more common long-plays and compact discs - to such a person, the
          > lack of availability would make no difference in his/her selection
          > of 15 favourites.
          >
          > But I'd say these lucky people would be in the minority. To the
          > public at large, simply not having general access to SDB's works
          > will drop a given score off the radar.
          >
          > In this sense, SDB and Madan Mohan share the same fate. Large
          swaths
          > (50%+?) of their oeuvre are either non-existent or have never
          moved
          > beyond the 78 RPM stage.
          >
          > One could argue that that's because the music of those films was a
          > flop to begin with. And through this circular logic, is partly the
          > reason these films show up only at the bottom of your list.
          >
          > I'd still say that in this Internet-age, where music and news of
          > music traverses the world at literally the speed of light, the
          > record company's issuing of the 'rarer' works of a music director
          or
          > singer would have a tremendous influence on that particular score
          > gaining recognition - good or bad, in the public eye.
          >
          > And to that point I have to add - it may be a fool's dream but a
          > large, presumably profitable company like RPG (now owned by
          > Universal Studios?) would see it as its 'social' responsibility to
          > publish the rarer works, even if they are loss-leaders. They must
          > have made (and still are) making tons of money on the Guides and
          the
          > Abhimaans. Why not allocate some of those revenue streams to the
          Ek
          > Nazars and Bablaas.
          >
          > So, anyway, here is where we see a co-relationship of this lack of
          > interest and lack of general availability of the score (in terms
          of
          > audio-cd or vhs/dvd).. or, as you say,
          >
          > "Let's start with the 'losers' for a change. Out of a total of 89,
          > > 74 of SDB's films are in at least someone's favorite-fifteen
          > list. "
          >
          > As far as I know, the following films fall in this category (note
          > the related percent points)
          >
          > > Afsar (1950) 10.77
          > > Insaan Jaag Utha (1959) 6.15
          > > Jyoti (1969) 6.15
          > > Shabnam (1949) 6.15
          > > Vidya (1948) 6.15
          > > Dr. Vidya (1962) 4.62
          > > Jeevan Jyoti (1953) 4.62
          > > Sitaron Se Aage (1958) 4.62
          > >
          > > Angare (1954) 3.08
          > > Apna Haath Jagannath (1960) 3.08
          > > Ek Nazar (1951) 3.08
          > > Kaise Kahoon (1964) 3.08
          > > Madh Bhare Nain (1955) 3.08
          > > Mashaal (1950) 3.08
          > > Naughty Boy (1962) 3.08
          >
          > > 40 Baba Ek Chor (1954) 1.54
          > > Bablaa (1953) 1.54
          > > Bahar (1951) 1.54
          > > Dil Ki Rani (1947) 1.54
          > > Do Bhai (1947) 1.54
          > > Pyar (1950) 1.54
          > > Shikari (1946) 1.54
          > > Society (1955) 1.54
          > > Tyaag (1976) 1.54
          >
          >
          > Tyaag was originally issued by Phillips and unless RPG or some
          other
          > company has the rights, the music of even this 1976 film is
          > officially extinct? (At least the two KK-Lata duets were were
          > preserving)
          >
          > Similarly with Arjun Pandit, which did have a very Lata song (bolo
          > preetam) and Kishore's wonderful 'man mera udaa jaaye'.
          >
          > There may be some here that indeed are generally available, but at
          > least I have not seen them and don't fall asleep at the wheel too
          > often, on this subject :)
          >
          > One other point is 'Deewangee'. This was one of those that nobody
          > picked. But sadly - in ways more than one - we can likely
          attribute
          > that more to Ravindra Jain than SDB. 'Chal sapnon ke sheher' -
          SDB's
          > swan song by Kishore and Bakshi is one of my personal favourites
          in
          > the SDB/KK library. Maybe that's for sentimental reasons and with
          > some personal memories tied up with the song, but whatever - a
          > superb number!
          >
          > Long story short about these rarer SDB films - one can't like what
          > one can't hear or see.
          >
          > Again, congrats and thanks. You've put a lot of hard work into
          this
          > survey. Well worth it!
          >
          > Regards..Robin
          >
        • Vinay
          Some corrections (see inline). Vinay wrote.. ... 1940s; in ... that SDB ... distribution for ... Aradhana was wrongly counted as released
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 1, 2004
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            Some corrections (see inline).

            "Vinay" <v9y@...> wrote..
            > Hi all:
            > * The year-wise distribution of top-15 does not see any movie from
            1940s; in
            > fact not even in top 40. Amongst top-15, rest of three decades
            that SDB
            > worked in gets almost equal representation. The year-wise
            distribution for
            > top-15 is:
            > - 1950s - 5
            > - 1960s - 6
            > - 1970s - 4

            Aradhana was wrongly counted as released in 1971, instead of 1969.
            That changes this to:
            - 1950s - 5
            - 1960s - 7
            - 1970s - 3

            > * Among lyricists, Majrooh has the most number of films in the top-
            15.
            > However, Shailendra gets 2 places in top 3. The complete tally
            amongst
            > top-15 is:
            > - Majrooh - 8
            > - Shailendra - 4
            > - Neeraj - 2
            > - Hasrat - 2
            > - Sahir - 1
            > - Anand Bakshi - 1
            >

            The correct lyricist tally is this for the first 15 spots:
            - Majrooh - 7
            - Shailendra - 4
            - Neeraj - 2
            - Hasrat - 1
            - Sahir - 1
            - Gulzar - 1
            - Anand Bakshi - 1

            I apologize for these. More corrections, if any, are appreciated.

            --
            Vinay
          • Srinivas Ganti
            ... Thanks a bunch Vinay for the quiz. It was a very enjoyable experience. My choices were Bandini Guide Angare Munimji Taxi Driver Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 1, 2004
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              --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "Vinay" <v9y@y...> wrote:
              > Hi all:
              >
              > The survey's over. And it's time for results.


              Thanks a bunch Vinay for the quiz. It was a very enjoyable experience.

              My choices were

              Bandini
              Guide
              Angare
              Munimji
              Taxi Driver
              Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi
              Abhimaan
              Jaal
              Pyaasa
              Sujaata
              Aradhana
              Mashaal
              Meri Surat Teri Aakhen
              Lajwanti
              Tere Ghar Ke Saamne


              It was a difficult task to decide on which soundtracks to pick and
              which ones to leave.

              I used four criterion for selection.

              - Soundtracks which haven't lost their appeal over the years.
              (Here I have to specially mention Guide. I was never
              obsessed with a soudtrack as much as Guide. It was during my
              Engineering first year that I first got it. And everyday after coming
              home from college, I had to hear it and that spell continued for
              many months. But I still like it. And its not just for me.
              For many people cutting across age groups that I have come across
              Guide remains a universal favorite.

              - Soundtracks which have memorable songs by multiple singers
              (Meri Surat Teri Aankhen has great songs by Lata, Rafi, Manna Dey,
              Mukesh & Suman)

              - Desert island soundtracks of a particular singer
              ( I have always considered Lajwanti to be Asha's all time best soundtrack)

              - soundtracks which I use to change rythm
              (I am in the 50's mode and want to have a change of rythm.
              Which soundtracks do I inevitably turn to but still manage to stick
              to that era! Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi, Taxi Driver)

              The toughest ones to leave were Mad Bhare Nain, Kaise Kahuun and
              Jeevan Jyoti. I didn't want to put in too many of the rarer ones as I
              was exposed to them over the last few years. For example I while I had
              a few songs of Mad Bhare Nain earlier, I got all the songs of the
              movie last year. It hasn't passed the test of time. So I had to leave
              that. I had no such problems when I had to choose Angarey.
              Infact that was one of the first soudtracks that I chose.

              In the final analysis of picking up the really rare soundtracks,
              Angarey and Mashal edged out Mad Bhare Nain and Jeevan Jyoti. Some
              other soundtracks that I had considered were Armaan, Buzdil, Society
              and Sitaron Se Aagey.

              I was exteremely delighted to see that 65 people had participated in
              the survey. A wider sample space is always good as the results may be
              skewed otherwise.

              When I look at the poll results, the top 5 soundtracks don't come as a
              surprise. And they span over the three decades. Not just that.
              Soundtracks which I wud never consider for SDB's top 15 were picked.
              SDB has something for everyone and everything for someone.

              sg.
            • hfm_zindabaad
              Vinay, Some other follow-up thoughts to my post.. With statistics and statistical analysis being the champagne branch of math (imo) and in keeping with the
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 1, 2004
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                Vinay,

                Some other follow-up thoughts to my post..

                With statistics and statistical analysis being the champagne branch
                of math (imo) and in keeping with the line of thought in my post -

                If one were to change the sample size (89 films) by removing the
                bottom-third (generally the 'losers' we referred to) or make the
                selection sample smaller, say 50 films and allow a choice of only 8-
                10 films - about the same ratio as 15/89 - the top favourites would
                most likely come out differently than they did in the original
                survey.

                Seems trivial and obvious to point this out, but a smaller
                opportunity will almost always result in a more discreet decision-
                making process. In my own case, I would be dropping quite a few of
                the films I consider SDB gems. (Ziddi, IPZN, etc)

                Another interesting point -

                What about Saaz? The 90th film. It was not in the survey for the
                most likely reason that not only the film but also its songs were
                aborted, even though each one of the seven has been listed in
                Nerurkar's anthology.

                That does make me feel a bit relieved, knowing that if I don't have
                them, nobody else does too! But if someone out there indeed has
                these songs, then technically they must be added to the survey?
                Unfortunately I don't have that cause for complaint :)

                Regards..Robin




                --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "Vinay" <v9y@y...> wrote:
                > Hi Robin:
                >
                > Thanks for the kind words.
                >
                > I agree with everything what you have said. Especially regarding
                the
                > responsibility of music companies to release rarer (not released
                > since long or never released on new media) scores. In fact, it
                > doesn't have to be a loss-making venture. There are ways in which
                > the profitability can be maintained. For one, they can price the
                > scores at a premium. Two, they can include a rare movie with a
                > popular one in a double-movie deal. Three, they can put the
                > marketing department to task and come up with innovative ideas to
                > sell them. But it is absolutely disappointing to see a don't-care
                > attitude of the companies about such scores, which in all
                likeliness
                > may have flopped due to their own lack of promotion.
                >
                > On the other hand and at the same time, I think some work needs to
                > be done on the consumers' part as well. The companies at least
                need
                > to know which movies they have to dig from their archives. They
                > cannot simply start releasing every score from say 1940s one by
                one.
                > They need to have at least some kind of shortlisting; some idea of
                > what people (even few) are looking for, to minimalize the chances
                or
                > the amount of loss. I don't think companies always have ideas of
                > what is rare or not available with the consumers. Writing to them,
                > individually or collectively, may be a good idea to make them
                aware
                > of the wish-lists. I am not saying this is always going to work
                (in
                > fact I have tried this myself without success some times upto a
                few
                > years ago), but I think without this, it will be even more
                unlikely
                > to get those rarities released. Plus I think things are changing
                and
                > the way Universal released a couple of the RDB scores on demands
                of
                > fans (in fact a very small, though in some ways representative,
                > group) is a ray of hope.
                >
                > Just my 2 cents.
                >
                > Vinay
                >
                > --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "hfm_zindabaad"
                > <hfm_zindabaad@y...> wrote:
                > > Hello Vinay,
                > >
                > > Excellent poll and follow-up statistical analysis; Congrats!
                > >
                > > Top-tier results were more or less predictable, but still, quite
                > > fascinating to read.
                > >
                > > One point which I've made earlier at SKS and which is
                corroborated
                > > to some degree at least in your survey - simply the absence of
                > SDB's
                > > music generally available in the commercial market.
                > >
                > > To a well-connected fan - who has amassed all the SDB-iana
                > available
                > > via 78 RPMS, rare prints of the films themselves, and of course,
                > the
                > > more common long-plays and compact discs - to such a person, the
                > > lack of availability would make no difference in his/her
                selection
                > > of 15 favourites.
                > >
                > > But I'd say these lucky people would be in the minority. To the
                > > public at large, simply not having general access to SDB's works
                > > will drop a given score off the radar.
                > >
                > > In this sense, SDB and Madan Mohan share the same fate. Large
                > swaths
                > > (50%+?) of their oeuvre are either non-existent or have never
                > moved
                > > beyond the 78 RPM stage.
                > >
                > > One could argue that that's because the music of those films was
                a
                > > flop to begin with. And through this circular logic, is partly
                the
                > > reason these films show up only at the bottom of your list.
                > >
                > > I'd still say that in this Internet-age, where music and news of
                > > music traverses the world at literally the speed of light, the
                > > record company's issuing of the 'rarer' works of a music
                director
                > or
                > > singer would have a tremendous influence on that particular
                score
                > > gaining recognition - good or bad, in the public eye.
                > >
                > > And to that point I have to add - it may be a fool's dream but a
                > > large, presumably profitable company like RPG (now owned by
                > > Universal Studios?) would see it as its 'social' responsibility
                to
                > > publish the rarer works, even if they are loss-leaders. They
                must
                > > have made (and still are) making tons of money on the Guides and
                > the
                > > Abhimaans. Why not allocate some of those revenue streams to the
                > Ek
                > > Nazars and Bablaas.
                > >
                > > So, anyway, here is where we see a co-relationship of this lack
                of
                > > interest and lack of general availability of the score (in terms
                > of
                > > audio-cd or vhs/dvd).. or, as you say,
                > >
                > > "Let's start with the 'losers' for a change. Out of a total of
                89,
                > > > 74 of SDB's films are in at least someone's favorite-fifteen
                > > list. "
                > >
                > > As far as I know, the following films fall in this category
                (note
                > > the related percent points)
                > >
                > > > Afsar (1950) 10.77
                > > > Insaan Jaag Utha (1959) 6.15
                > > > Jyoti (1969) 6.15
                > > > Shabnam (1949) 6.15
                > > > Vidya (1948) 6.15
                > > > Dr. Vidya (1962) 4.62
                > > > Jeevan Jyoti (1953) 4.62
                > > > Sitaron Se Aage (1958) 4.62
                > > >
                > > > Angare (1954) 3.08
                > > > Apna Haath Jagannath (1960) 3.08
                > > > Ek Nazar (1951) 3.08
                > > > Kaise Kahoon (1964) 3.08
                > > > Madh Bhare Nain (1955) 3.08
                > > > Mashaal (1950) 3.08
                > > > Naughty Boy (1962) 3.08
                > >
                > > > 40 Baba Ek Chor (1954) 1.54
                > > > Bablaa (1953) 1.54
                > > > Bahar (1951) 1.54
                > > > Dil Ki Rani (1947) 1.54
                > > > Do Bhai (1947) 1.54
                > > > Pyar (1950) 1.54
                > > > Shikari (1946) 1.54
                > > > Society (1955) 1.54
                > > > Tyaag (1976) 1.54
                > >
                > >
                > > Tyaag was originally issued by Phillips and unless RPG or some
                > other
                > > company has the rights, the music of even this 1976 film is
                > > officially extinct? (At least the two KK-Lata duets were were
                > > preserving)
                > >
                > > Similarly with Arjun Pandit, which did have a very Lata song
                (bolo
                > > preetam) and Kishore's wonderful 'man mera udaa jaaye'.
                > >
                > > There may be some here that indeed are generally available, but
                at
                > > least I have not seen them and don't fall asleep at the wheel
                too
                > > often, on this subject :)
                > >
                > > One other point is 'Deewangee'. This was one of those that
                nobody
                > > picked. But sadly - in ways more than one - we can likely
                > attribute
                > > that more to Ravindra Jain than SDB. 'Chal sapnon ke sheher' -
                > SDB's
                > > swan song by Kishore and Bakshi is one of my personal favourites
                > in
                > > the SDB/KK library. Maybe that's for sentimental reasons and
                with
                > > some personal memories tied up with the song, but whatever - a
                > > superb number!
                > >
                > > Long story short about these rarer SDB films - one can't like
                what
                > > one can't hear or see.
                > >
                > > Again, congrats and thanks. You've put a lot of hard work into
                > this
                > > survey. Well worth it!
                > >
                > > Regards..Robin
                > >
              • hfm_zindabaad
                Any selection choice that excludes Sharmilee, Talash, or Tere Ghar Ke Samne risks an instant howl of protest ! :)) -- I agree fully with Lajwanti as being at
                Message 7 of 9 , Aug 1, 2004
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                  Any selection choice that excludes Sharmilee, Talash, or Tere Ghar
                  Ke Samne risks an instant howl of protest ! :))
                  --

                  I agree fully with Lajwanti as being at least SDB's best Asha-
                  related single film. Maybe the best ever, with the possible
                  exception of Umrao Jaan or Ijaazat. But no song in these two films
                  comes within a mile of 'gaa mere man gaa', imo.

                  btw, GREAT selection of films, Srini.

                  Regards... Robin



                  --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "Srinivas Ganti"
                  <gantisri@h...> wrote:
                  > --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "Vinay" <v9y@y...>
                  wrote:
                  > > Hi all:
                  > >
                  > > The survey's over. And it's time for results.
                  >
                  >
                  > Thanks a bunch Vinay for the quiz. It was a very enjoyable
                  experience.
                  >
                  > My choices were
                  >
                  > Bandini
                  > Guide
                  > Angare
                  > Munimji
                  > Taxi Driver
                  > Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi
                  > Abhimaan
                  > Jaal
                  > Pyaasa
                  > Sujaata
                  > Aradhana
                  > Mashaal
                  > Meri Surat Teri Aakhen
                  > Lajwanti
                  > Tere Ghar Ke Saamne
                  >
                  >
                  > It was a difficult task to decide on which soundtracks to pick and
                  > which ones to leave.
                  >
                  > I used four criterion for selection.
                  >
                  > - Soundtracks which haven't lost their appeal over the years.
                  > (Here I have to specially mention Guide. I was never
                  > obsessed with a soudtrack as much as Guide. It was during my
                  > Engineering first year that I first got it. And everyday after
                  coming
                  > home from college, I had to hear it and that spell continued for
                  > many months. But I still like it. And its not just for me.
                  > For many people cutting across age groups that I have come across
                  > Guide remains a universal favorite.
                  >
                  > - Soundtracks which have memorable songs by multiple singers
                  > (Meri Surat Teri Aankhen has great songs by Lata, Rafi, Manna Dey,
                  > Mukesh & Suman)
                  >
                  > - Desert island soundtracks of a particular singer
                  > ( I have always considered Lajwanti to be Asha's all time best
                  soundtrack)
                  >
                  > - soundtracks which I use to change rythm
                  > (I am in the 50's mode and want to have a change of rythm.
                  > Which soundtracks do I inevitably turn to but still manage to stick
                  > to that era! Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi, Taxi Driver)
                  >
                  > The toughest ones to leave were Mad Bhare Nain, Kaise Kahuun and
                  > Jeevan Jyoti. I didn't want to put in too many of the rarer ones
                  as I
                  > was exposed to them over the last few years. For example I while I
                  had
                  > a few songs of Mad Bhare Nain earlier, I got all the songs of the
                  > movie last year. It hasn't passed the test of time. So I had to
                  leave
                  > that. I had no such problems when I had to choose Angarey.
                  > Infact that was one of the first soudtracks that I chose.
                  >
                  > In the final analysis of picking up the really rare soundtracks,
                  > Angarey and Mashal edged out Mad Bhare Nain and Jeevan Jyoti. Some
                  > other soundtracks that I had considered were Armaan, Buzdil,
                  Society
                  > and Sitaron Se Aagey.
                  >
                  > I was exteremely delighted to see that 65 people had participated
                  in
                  > the survey. A wider sample space is always good as the results may
                  be
                  > skewed otherwise.
                  >
                  > When I look at the poll results, the top 5 soundtracks don't come
                  as a
                  > surprise. And they span over the three decades. Not just that.
                  > Soundtracks which I wud never consider for SDB's top 15 were
                  picked.
                  > SDB has something for everyone and everything for someone.
                  >
                  > sg.
                • Srinivas Ganti
                  well I picked Tere Ghar Ke Saamne after a lot of debate. I never considered Talash or Sharmilee ! I still feel bad for leaving out Mad Bhare Nain, Kaise Kahoon
                  Message 8 of 9 , Aug 1, 2004
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                    well I picked Tere Ghar Ke Saamne after a lot of debate. I never
                    considered Talash or Sharmilee !

                    I still feel bad for leaving out Mad Bhare Nain, Kaise Kahoon etc.

                    sg.


                    --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "hfm_zindabaad"
                    <hfm_zindabaad@y...> wrote:
                    > Any selection choice that excludes Sharmilee, Talash, or Tere Ghar
                    > Ke Samne risks an instant howl of protest ! :))
                    > --
                    >
                    > I agree fully with Lajwanti as being at least SDB's best Asha-
                    > related single film. Maybe the best ever, with the possible
                    > exception of Umrao Jaan or Ijaazat. But no song in these two films
                    > comes within a mile of 'gaa mere man gaa', imo.
                    >
                    > btw, GREAT selection of films, Srini.
                    >
                    > Regards... Robin
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "Srinivas Ganti"
                    > <gantisri@h...> wrote:
                    > > --- In sangeet_ke_sitare@..., "Vinay" <v9y@y...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > > Hi all:
                    > > >
                    > > > The survey's over. And it's time for results.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Thanks a bunch Vinay for the quiz. It was a very enjoyable
                    > experience.
                    > >
                    > > My choices were
                    > >
                    > > Bandini
                    > > Guide
                    > > Angare
                    > > Munimji
                    > > Taxi Driver
                    > > Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi
                    > > Abhimaan
                    > > Jaal
                    > > Pyaasa
                    > > Sujaata
                    > > Aradhana
                    > > Mashaal
                    > > Meri Surat Teri Aakhen
                    > > Lajwanti
                    > > Tere Ghar Ke Saamne
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > It was a difficult task to decide on which soundtracks to pick
                    and
                    > > which ones to leave.
                    > >
                    > > I used four criterion for selection.
                    > >
                    > > - Soundtracks which haven't lost their appeal over the years.
                    > > (Here I have to specially mention Guide. I was never
                    > > obsessed with a soudtrack as much as Guide. It was during my
                    > > Engineering first year that I first got it. And everyday after
                    > coming
                    > > home from college, I had to hear it and that spell continued for
                    > > many months. But I still like it. And its not just for me.
                    > > For many people cutting across age groups that I have come across
                    > > Guide remains a universal favorite.
                    > >
                    > > - Soundtracks which have memorable songs by multiple singers
                    > > (Meri Surat Teri Aankhen has great songs by Lata, Rafi, Manna
                    Dey,
                    > > Mukesh & Suman)
                    > >
                    > > - Desert island soundtracks of a particular singer
                    > > ( I have always considered Lajwanti to be Asha's all time best
                    > soundtrack)
                    > >
                    > > - soundtracks which I use to change rythm
                    > > (I am in the 50's mode and want to have a change of rythm.
                    > > Which soundtracks do I inevitably turn to but still manage to
                    stick
                    > > to that era! Chalti Ka Naam Gaadi, Taxi Driver)
                    > >
                    > > The toughest ones to leave were Mad Bhare Nain, Kaise Kahuun and
                    > > Jeevan Jyoti. I didn't want to put in too many of the rarer ones
                    > as I
                    > > was exposed to them over the last few years. For example I while
                    I
                    > had
                    > > a few songs of Mad Bhare Nain earlier, I got all the songs of the
                    > > movie last year. It hasn't passed the test of time. So I had to
                    > leave
                    > > that. I had no such problems when I had to choose Angarey.
                    > > Infact that was one of the first soudtracks that I chose.
                    > >
                    > > In the final analysis of picking up the really rare soundtracks,
                    > > Angarey and Mashal edged out Mad Bhare Nain and Jeevan Jyoti.
                    Some
                    > > other soundtracks that I had considered were Armaan, Buzdil,
                    > Society
                    > > and Sitaron Se Aagey.
                    > >
                    > > I was exteremely delighted to see that 65 people had
                    participated
                    > in
                    > > the survey. A wider sample space is always good as the results
                    may
                    > be
                    > > skewed otherwise.
                    > >
                    > > When I look at the poll results, the top 5 soundtracks don't
                    come
                    > as a
                    > > surprise. And they span over the three decades. Not just that.
                    > > Soundtracks which I wud never consider for SDB's top 15 were
                    > picked.
                    > > SDB has something for everyone and everything for someone.
                    > >
                    > > sg.
                  • Kaustubh
                    Vinay wrote: Hi Robin: snipped ... doesn t have to be a loss-making venture. snipped ========== Letme add my 3rd centto the wonderful postsby
                    Message 9 of 9 , Aug 8, 2004
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                      Vinay <v9y@...> wrote:

                      Hi Robin:
                      snipped

                      >>>In fact, it
                      doesn't have to be a loss-making venture.

                      snipped

                      ==========

                      Letme add my 3rd centto the wonderful postsby Robin bhai & Vinay..

                       

                      These music companies need only about 350 to 500 CD's order to make the compilation..right ??...this small number of CD's can be distributed ( despatched ) within India ( to the various stores ) within 1 hour !!!! I mean if every store is ready to keep at least 1 gem of an album ( amongst the rubbish that is kept in stores like Planet M..I visited one today and was frustrated with the kind of albums kept there !! )...it is sure going to be a sucess..

                      KCP

                       

                       


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